Question for parents who spank.

[Bluerthanblue]

How do you discipline your children when they 'spank'- (hit) each other?

I have witnessed parents saying "I TOLD YOU NOT TO HIT" while spanking their children.- on several occasions.

It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to understand why that is a pretty blatant case of 'do as I SAY not as I do'- And who can justify a child being told that using his hands (or other utensils) to 'teach' his brother, sister, or friend that what they have done is not 'acceptable'?

( yes, I am a parent, no, I do not spank, yes, I was 'spanked' corporal punishment to be more precise)

[TaleWgnDg]

1. Ahhhhh, the breeding ground for twisted kids . . . n/t

[AngryAmish]

2. Maybe they feel that parents have a monopoly on violence

kinda like the state gets a monopoly of violence under our social contract

[noahmijo]

3. I was punched and shoved as a kid a spanking would've been almost kind

It did nothing but turn me into an angry bastard which I have come to control, however the effects of hitting? just pisses the kid off and makes him think of the day when he'll be big enough to hit back.


My children will never be spanked by ANYONE and that's a fact, disciplined? Yes. Through loss of privileges and such but never through violence.

[cynatnite]

4. Separating the kids is what we've done in the past...

We rarely spank anyway and the kids haven't hit each other in a long time, but when they did we separated them and gave some very strong words.

The way I view spanking is that it has limited benefits. It's only for the short term and it's only used in specific circumstances when we feel it's required.

Our kids are older now...the oldest is 21, middle is 15 and the youngest is six. Usually five or six is pretty well the cutoff for spanking because by that time we expect them to reason and to think through their actions. They're too old for it at that point.

Spanking was common when I was growing up and looking back on it now, it never served that much of a benefit because of it being such a common practice. We feel that if spanking is going to be used, it should be very rare and within clear limits.

There are other discipline options and spanking is one of many.

[CoffeeCat]

5. I just have to say...

...that I don't spank.

I would never hit my child.

It's a ridiculous form of discipline. After all, "discipline" means to teach. What are you teaching children, when you hit their bodies? You're teaching violence. You're teaching them to fear you.

You can get a dog to stop barking if you beat it enough. However, in the end--the dog doesn't love you or respect you--it suppresses an action out of fear--out of not wanting to be physically harmed or humiliated.

That's not "discipline"...it's not teaching. It's laziness.

I have two children--ages 4 and 5. I understand how difficult parenting is. It can be maddening and frustrating. However, I find that reasoning with a child--and talking at eye level is optimal. I also use time outs. I also am not afraid to leave the grocery store or an important event--if we need to. I also take away favorite toys.

I was hit as a child. My mother was an ace with the wooden spoon. Yes, we obeyed when we knew we were going to be hit. However, in the end--none of us had any respect for her. In fact, my siblings and I disrespect her parenting so much that we often laugh hysterically at how ridiculous she was---getting angry, opening the utensil drawer, grabbing the wooden spoon and then flailing around the house--running after us.

It's really not funny. It's child abuse. We would never tell her that, to this day though. Because that's what this kind of abusive dynamic does to people...intimidation leads to fear, leads to silence--and in the end--the relationship is not real. It's not honest. It's based on fear and denial--and the most important words are never spoken.

You can't have an honest relationship with your children--if you hit them. That's the truth. We would all cringe at the thought of a boss hitting an employee or a college professor hitting students when they didn't learn the information in a timely fashion. In fact, those events are deemed criminal and would probably spark a lawsuit.

However, when it comes to children--some people think it's ok to hit them--just because they can, or because they're so frustrated, or because they rationalize that it's acceptable or helpful. It's not.

It's barbaric.

[roguevalley]

6. a swat on the butt once in a blue moon is the way its done in my

family. Its a rap, not a slap. And, it never occurred to us that it was 'okay' to spank or hit each other. We never confused our parents right to be the leaders in our family on this sort of thing as license to beat each other up. The idea of us being short versions of adults with all rights therein was never even a thought. Our parents were adults. So that was never a problem. Wasn't then. Isn't now.

[ultraist]

7. I've seen the same thing

"I TOLD YOU NOT TO HIT" while spanking their children.

Recently, in the mall, I saw a mother smack her toddler on the leg and screamed, "DON'T HIT." I thought, WTF kind of mixed message is that?

Why on earth do some big people think it's ok to smack little people? Yes, it is barbaric.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

8. I spanked my child three times and didn't ever have to do it again

Once when he was 2 and I couldn't get him to leave a sharp glass fireplace cover alone. I had blocked it and he kept moving the blocking so he could get to it. After dragging him away from it 5 times, I spanked, and he didn't try to go there again. Had I not, he would have cut his fingers on the sharp glass.

The second time was when I gave him time out. He wouldn't sit for more than 10 seconds. After sending him back several times, I spanked and he stayed in the time out for the recommended 10 minutes. His time out was a result of an attempt to harm other toddlers (he had no idea the danger he was creating for them).

The third time was when he was about 3-4 and almost fell out of a shopping cart because he decided to stand up and lean over head first. I tried explaining the danger, but he repeatedly tried. I did spank him while in the store and had no problems with him after that.

Had ANYONE tried to give me grief regarding spanking him, I would have given them the third degree. My child is much loved and if ANYONE feels he would have been better off cutting himself on the glass, or hurting other children, or falling on his head from a shopping cart, they may need evaluation. There are circumstances that time out just doesn't work. Furthermore, to protect my child from danger, I wouldn't want to give a rambunctious child enough time to fall on his head.

I was spanked as discipline as a child. It did NOT leave any permanent or even temporary damage. I learned there were consequences to my actions. After a few spankings, I learned to control my behavior.

Spanking and hitting a child are 2 different things. Parents who lose control, shouldn't use spanking as discipline. It is my belief that spanking is a discipline of personal choice, should be used sparingly for child safety purposes. It is my belief as well that it should not occur if a parent is angry or as a vent for a parents frustrations.

[ultraist]

12. Three things

1. Proper child proofing
2. One minute per one year of age is the appropriate time for time out
3. Seat belts in carts

Just pointing out that spanking is not the only way to keep your child safe. ;)

[NoBushSpokenHere]

17. Answer

1. My home was properly childproofed with one exception, the fireplace guard. I didn't know my child was capable of removing the blocking or I would have done that. The guard was built in and had to be removed by a contractor - the contractor would not have made it to my home in time to change to save his fingers. Duct tape would have worked, but he would have probably cut himself when I removed the blocking to have complete access to the glass. And no, I couldn't have put him into a play pen while I was taping. He climbed out of it at an early age.

2. I stand corrected - I do remember that now and had tried the 1 minute per year prior to the spanking.

3. There was NO seat belt in the carts in the store I was shopping.

Just pointing out there are times where it is unavoidable and can be a means of discipline that does work on cases where a childs life or safety is in danger.

[cynatnite]

21. I remember a few times when none of the carts had seatbelts...

It was frustrating. Sometimes they were broken or there would be only one.

I threatened my kid within an inch of his life if he even tried to stand up and fortunately he listened. Falling out of a cart head first onto those hard floors was one of my worst fears.

[sam sarrha]

9. my first memory is being beaten by my father, afterword he was complaining

about how bad his hand hurt.... i remember having the distinct feeling that didn't make sense..

i think the life long problems with him came from that moment..
till i was a teenager, he grabbed me to drag me some place out of view of the neighbors and i pushed him down and picked up a piece of pipe and told him i would kill kim if he ever touched me again...

we pretended the other didn't exist till just before he died..

[MikeH]

10. You might be interested in looking at the writings of Alice Miller

Alice Miller, a Swiss psychologist, has a lot to say about spanking and violence done to children "for their own good", and the long term effects of such violence. She talks about how Hitler was constantly beaten by his father, and the effect that had on him in becoming the kind of person he was.

Here are some links to her articles:

http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/spanking.html

http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/violence_kills_love.html

http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/adolf_hitler.html


And links to her main web sites:

http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/

http://www.alice-miller.com/sujet/eng.htm


Her writings provide a lot of food for thought, even if one might not at first and immediately agree with her.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. thanks, I'm familiar with her- she's

pretty insightful- and pretty profound.
The links are great-

Thanks for posting them.

[marbuc]

11. There is a big difference between hitting (abuse) and spanking

I was spanked as a child, and understood that as parental discipline. I never thought it was ok it hit. I don't know if I will spank my future children (if I decide to and am lucky enough to have them), but I'm leaning against it.

[ultraist]

13. What is the difference between hitting and spanking? n/t

If you are unsure, I would suggest that you take the time to read up on child development and parenting strategies that have been shown to be more effective than using harsh, punitive, physical tactics.

[helderheid]

14. I was spanked

Don't kid yourself - it's hitting.

Can you imagine doing this to another adult you disagreed with? It's just a bad idea. At least adults are closer to the same size and feel for the most part equal to one another. I will never forget how huge my father was to me when he hit me. Those memories haunted me for years.

[Bluerthanblue]

15. the line between spanking and wailing the shit out of a child is a fragile

thin line.
One that far too many parents step out on, without realizing how easy it is to snap, or lose control.

No offense intended, but how many politicians have you heard trying to 'justify' the torture and abuse at Abu Gharib as not being 'serious'?-
Trying to somehow de-fuse the reality that what was done is indeed WRONG unacceptable, and indefensible?

It starts at the cradle, and ends when a living person says "no! I refuse to do this simply because it was done to me, and I survived". Not at the grave- the evil that men do lives after them- sometimes disguised as 'good' or 'acceptable'- but in reality is rather something that is tolerated.

I'm glad to hear your inclined NOT to use physical aggression on your children to come- The longer we 'defend' or 'ok' it, the longer it will continue.

[Solly Mack]

18. Well, first I put on my leather

then I grab my favorite boa - it's hot pink and ultra fluffy

then after the children rock themselves to sleep laughing at me, I sign on to DU to share my tales of parent abuse.

I just thought some levity would be needed.

:)

[Bluerthanblue]

19. what,

no blue and white striped b-nannies in pajammies?

:D

Pink boa eh?
Your right, this is a hard topic. But one that really touches on what 'makes us tick' I think-

When you come down to it, the way we 'lead' our families is kind of a reflection of the way we 'desire' to be lead, or governed don't you think? I'm big on respect, patience, and trying to find a 'better' way rather than staying stuck in 'conservitive ..compassion??'

But i'm not your average anything- except wierdo.

Think I'd better go to sleep-
it's been a long strange day.

[Solly Mack]

20. I do the b-nannie jammies on special occasions LOL!

I've finally convinced my husband that b-nannie jammies are sexy.

I agree with you.

"When you come down to it, the way we 'lead' our families is kind of a reflection of the way we 'desire' to be lead, or governed don't you think?"

and not just applying it to spanking either...but all aspects and methods of discipline (discipline sends a message that reaches far beyond the lesson in discipline - and the method of discipline determines the message)...it says a lot about the conditioning a person has gone through...and such conditioning does stay with people long after they've left their childhood homes.

Not saying there aren't exceptions...but childhood conditioning does reflect in our attitudes (and actions) as adults.