Would a Liberal vote for Bush? My Day with the Freeper Family.

[The Backlash Cometh]

Okay, the wedding from hell took place today. A niece from the right-wing side of the family had her wedding and this family event I couldn't duck out of, so here are my observations:

THE LIBERAL MEDIA DIG FROM THE PRIEST:
Wedding ceremony went well, except that the priest said that it was okay to wish bad things on people, like he always wished Barbara Walters would slip on a banana peel. He said, he was sorry, but he never really liked her. Okay, that sentiment went well between the Ave Maria and the Love is Kind recitation.

FREEPER BAD HABITS:
Jump to the reception. This is the perfect description of a freeper male: You walk in after him in a unisex bathroom and find the toilet seat up, and the water in the bowl is yellow. I'm not kidding.

WOULD A LIBERAL VOTE FOR BUSH:
Then I got a chance to talk to the Repub relative who was married to the Evangelical. Get this, he said that all things are cyclical and that the Republicans would lose power in the next few elections. He says there are two things to remember, there's the political, and then there's the social, and that the republicans are more business oriented and make political cold-hearted decisions which they feel are better for the economy, but tougher on the poor. After a while, he said, the country develops a conscience and then the pendulum goes to candidates who concentrate on improving things socially for everyone.

But, get this, he said don't worry because Republicans are steadily making more wealthy people in this country and soon there will be more people who are rich, and therefore, voting Republican for personal economic reasons, despite their political leanings.

This observation he shared with me after he complained about the Liberal Media, and I asked who on t.v. is Liberal? He said Chris Matthews was a Liberal!!! I said Matthews is no Liberal, he's a conservative Democrat who voted for Bush. He REFUSED TO BELIEVE HE WAS NOT LIBERAL!! I finally said, "Would a Liberal vote for Bush." And the answer was: "yes, if they were rich, they would vote for Republicans to keep more of their money."

So, (A) He believes the Republicans are making inroads in making some people richer and; (B) He believes all people who have money, including Liberals, are voting Republican to keep their money.

CHAOS ECONOMICS:
Brace yourselves. The Republicans are prepared to take shrapnel from all this fall-out with the Iraq War and the culture of corruption. That's my conclusion after he told me this: He said that opportunities are created from chaotic times and that we need chaotic times to revitalized the economy. He said it was natural to have corruption during this period of time because there was so many opportunities that developed in the confusion while the system corrects itself, but that there was more good than bad that came from it. I told him, but people have died in the last four years, that wouldn't have died if we had a more efficient, compassionate government. He said the people who were making the decisions know that some people are going to suffer but they were doing it for the best of the country.

I told him that he talks about the chaos mongers as if they have benevolent intentions, but that he didn't have a clue just how corrupt these Republican politicians are because most of it hasn't been reported yet. I asked him if the last four years of chaos economics was worth the death of our nephew who died in the WTC bombing. I HAD TO ASKED HIM THREE TIMES, before he finally admitted, that probably not.

So there you have it folks. Bizzaro World.

[electron_blue]

1. Gads, what an event. Q: Do you know what the percentage is

of wealthy, who voted Democratic in the 2004? I don't, but now you got me curious.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. It was a very interesting conversation. I hope this thread continues

to the morning because I noticed a change in the direction of the conversation from previous conversations.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. I seem to recall that the truly wealthy are slightly more likely

to vote Dem than Republican, and the ostentation-loving near-rich are immensely more Republican.

[Maraya1969]

21. Yes! the Nouveau Rich vote Republican. People with tons of

money don't need to worry about tax brackets because 1) there is plenty left over and 2) they have the know how and the money to set up good tax shelters.

The others vote Repub because they fear homosexuals and zygotes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Well, then you have a talking point that the DNC can push.

Maybe the difference between the DNC and the DLC is that DLC members are more capable of voting Republican for their own personal interest?

Knowing how Republican supporters think is important, because it will tell you what kind of information a Democratic candidate needs to push to break the Repub voter's "conventional wisdom" and get them to vote Democratically.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. More layers...

of denial and compensation than layers of skin on an onion.

Wait until he gets it in the short and curlies, economically. Oh, his Social Darwinist tune will change.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. It's already happening. I'm sensing some real confusion and confliction

developing in this family.

They were Angry white men, but something is changing. Like they have finally realized that they were angry at the wrong people. They know that their leaders have misled them, but they don't have anywhere else to go.

The freeper nephew that I absolutely hated for his racist comments, (i.e. blaming minorities for taking their jobs), I completely avoided the entire evening and when it was time to leave, I noticed he was crying his eyes out. On the ride home I asked my husband what he was bawling about and he said that the boy was scared for his father's well-being. You see, it was his father who for years poisoned his son's mind because he feared that he would lose his job to a minority member because of Affirmative Action. This went on for well over ten years. He hoped to make it at least to 55 and he actually made it to 60 before getting canned by a young white male. He admitted that it was age discrimination that finally did him in.

Anyway, these are GOOD people, except they are being crushed, but they are now realizing that their own party is more at fault than the Democrats. Outsourcing and Bush's open border policy has hit them in a way that has them confused and no where to go.

[xray s]

4. all I can say is....

...may the gods of chaos wipe out the portfolios of all the rich Republicans in the name of economic opportunity.

[Kurovski]

5. This report from the front has been nominated.

So it took three tries to find that he has a heart. Also a mind that doesn't even believe the strange excuses he makes for the wretchedness of our condition.

That's progress of a sort, I guess. Maybe you set him to thinking.

Belated regrets on the loss of your nephew.

[mark11727]

8. I second that nomination...!

This should be a pretty good thread, becasue I think most of us have either family or friends that skew to the right... for one or many reasons.

Unlike some of the morans we have come to know on FR, we know these to be good people, and wish them no ill will, only that they realize that they could have prevented the problems we're all having, that they only thought things through in 2000 (or earlier).

[NJCher]

22. that's the problem in a nutshell

...only that they realize that they could have prevented the problems we're all having, that they only thought things through in 2000 (or earlier).

They are incapable or at the very least, untrained in thinking things through to a conclusion. This is a thinking problem their leaders have, too. It just boggles the mind that they would think that WHIG would remain undiscovered, for example. Or the bizarre fantasty that the U.S. would be greeted with joy and flowers after toppling the Iraqi government.

Is it that hard to think things through? Apparently it must be, for some people. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not handicapped like that. It must make life hell.




Cher

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. What I find hard to accept, is that these same people were

telling me 10 years ago how criminally inclined blacks and hispanics are; and how patriotic and Christian the Republican party is compared to the Democratic party.

But how can you be patriotic if you support an economic plan that you know will take American casualities (and I'm not talking about war-caused death.) And how can you be Christian if you support policies which admittedly create an "Each Man for Himself" environment?

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Thank you for your condolences.

Putting the politics aside, today was a celebration for that side of the family. Not only was there a wedding for one of the brothers, but the older sister who lost her son on 9/11 missed the wedding because she had to rush back to New York to make it in time to welcome her first grandchild into the world.

[Kurovski]

12. Families, complex and beautiful. Well, congratulations, too!--n/t

[Maraya1969]

20. Wow, the circle of life........

[FightingIrish]

7. A former friend and hopeless * supporter gave me the same line

Preservation of wealth is the core belief of the Republican party. They stick to that even when it is self defeating. I see a time when they starve to death in their gated communities because they think they are above the rest of the world.

[unpossibles]

9. "the country develops a conscience"

ironic that he said this without really understanding what he said, that deep down awful things are being done to actual people for a select few to make lots of money.

I truly feel greed rules the day for many of these people. They are willing to overlook their conscience in order to make a buck, failing to realize it is often someone else who is making a lot of money on their backs.

[stop the bleeding]

10. What an insightful conversation, and bravo to nailing him in the

end. My condolences for your nephew and your family. I do think that this is a very interesting topic and do hope this thread continues. These guys are amazingly cold and calculating, but never the less one must study one's adversaries plans and techniques in order to achieve one's goals.

[Kurovski]

13. Could a nomination for greatest help it continue? *nudge, nudge.*

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Thanks for your help.

As this thread grows, I remember other conversations I had that were equally intriguing and I hope I get opportunities to express them.

[ngGale]

14. *wink, wink*...n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Uggh, reminds me of the time that I attended the funeral of a distant

relative last year, and in the midst of an otherwise touching eulogy, her oldest son threw in a totally out-of-nowhere line about how she would have rejoiced at the liberation of Iraq. (His mother had been senile for five years, so I doubt that she thought much about Iraq either way.)

At the funeral lunch, the other son talked about how he and his wife had turned Catholic on account of the abortion issue.

The daughter agreed that Bush was a disaster but kept trying out the names of other, equally disastrous Republicans as if to say that they would be better.

Their late father was career military and rabidly right wing. He thought that Walter Cronkite was a Communist for criticizing the Vietnam War and that Eric Sevareid was a Communist for having protested against compulsory ROTC at the University of Minnesota in the 1930s, so I guess his children come by their right-wing attitudes honestly.

The parking lot was full of anti-choice and pro-war bumperstickers.

I actually like that branch of the family on one level, but their politics--yechh!

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. The issue of woman's rights did come up.

He said that a problem with Liberals is that they were belligerent on certain issues. They were incessant, he said. I asked him what women issues specifically bothered him? He couldn't come up with anything specific so I immediately started to defend abortion rights but he had to admit that it wasn't one of the women issues that was most bothersome for him. In fact, he reached this conclusion for himself when he exclaimed that our biggest problem is that there are too many people already on this planet for the resources we have!

But he continued to say it over and over again that Liberals were belligerent about certain women's issue. I think he probably was thinking about equal employment opportunity. I do know that Chris Matthews has a hard-on when women's issues comes up. Watch the old archived interviews with Patricia Ireland and you'll see a tight look of hatred stretched on his face.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. The PRIEST made political commentary during the SERVICE?????

????

Also, the Repub relative: he can be happy with all the "chaos" and war carnage from the government doing it for our "greater good" as long as it's not him getting his arms blown off. Nice.

[fighttheevilempire]

18. Someone should remind him

that advocating political candidates and views could result in the revocation of his tax-exempt status....

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Regarding the war carnage comment:

These older brothers and sisters have been fruitful and have had many sons. BUT NOT ONE OF THEIR BOYS HAVE HAD MILITARY SERVICE!!! They grew up in the in between years of Vietnam and Iraq. The youngest is now in his late 20s.

The only person in that family who has had military service is the guy who married the sister. The guy served in Vietnam and has so many phobias that he's a bit dysfunctional. Nice as hell guy, but he won't fly in a commercial plane and he gets claustrophobic.

[Vektor]

17. Anybody who would vote JUST to keep "more money"

ie, vote solely based on their own personal gain above any other issue IS NOT A LIBERAL.

Liberal = GENEROUS. They're synonymous.

Liberals put the greater good above individual personal gain. So, this relative of your is dead wrong. Anyone who votes against the interests of the poor in favor of the rich is a die-hard Repuke, and NEVER a Liberal.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Well, as I said in another thread, the DNC has a talking point now.

If they can prove that rich Liberals don't vote Republican, they can break this misconception.

[rucky]

23. you should've slipped some birth control pills into the champagne

i know it's meshpucah and all, but my god, all I keep thinking is "these people should not breed."

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Funny you should say that.

First, let me tell you that politics aside, these are good people. They just have been taken over by their fears and prejudices by the Republican party. Many of them are Irish descent and Catholics and I use to get along with them wonderfully, until this private school vs. public school thing was used by the Republicans as a wedge issue. They all support private schools, in fact one of them works for a parochial school and the conversation in the last ten years increasingly became antagonistic towards public schools.

Money has always been a problem for them, and it was not just that they felt that a parochial upbringing was better but that they resented paying tuition for public school kids.

Now, if you can encapsulate all that, think about this: They have at least two girls who have had out of wedlock babies, and one of their boys had a bride who was five months pregnant when they got married. So, they are beginning to look like the hated Liberal family they bitched about ten years ago.

[morningglory]

24. I do not see any people who are middle class becoming rich any more as

they did with great frequency under the Big Dog. The middle class is seeing our great country running off a cliff. An eloquent DU'er posted recently that the USA is swirling around in the big toilet bowl. It makes me so sad.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. I'm telling you, this is a missed talking point for the Democrats.

Although, you do realize that the Republicans always believed that Clinton's good economic years were due to the Reagan-Bush tax cuts, right?

[checks-n-balances]

33. Kicked

for talking points

[salin]

34. Sounds like a Rand freak

esp with all the "self corrections" cr*p and the odd belief that good is coming out of it.

I had quite the opposite conversation earlier this week with a cons. relative. Kept hitting on the theme of corruption - and policies fueling greed. His kids are getting towards college age and he is worried that they want to go into engineering, and that many of those jobs are going overseas (and he has just learned that the US is "going to move to a service economy" - no sir - it IS already that - he asked how such an economy would work and is it sustainable.) Actually this relatively well off republican was appearing to care - and possibly prove the early point made by your freeper relative per a point where people want a bit more "govt to improve things for everyone" swing.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. It may be difficult to peg them, but

the relative who believed in chaos economics doesn't have any dependent children. They're all grown. But the brother whose child was getting married is having a tough time. Just lost a job and from what I can tell, his daughter paid for her own wedding.

So, basically, you have within the Republican party in one family those who are supporting economic hardships, and those who are on the receiving end of those hardships.

The only thing that seems to be a unifying thread is that they hate minorties.

[salin]

36. That last statement is just sad

are we ever going to grow up as a society? What a pathetic strand to hold a political coalition together (and I think it holds more than just the two families in your family together.)

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. You know, you have to hand it to Bush. When he opened the

floodgates for immigrants, he brought in something that will cause friction and conflict for elections to come. Two presidential elections from now, no one will remember that it was George Bush who allowed people into this country, without any plan to provide for their needs.

Hi salin! :hi:

[salin]

39. au contrere...

two elections from now people will still be blaming bushjr for everything. That way they (esp GOP) can try to distance themselves from this trainwreck led by Bush and the GOP. Already starting to happen.

Back in about 03 there was talk from the Hill that some GOP congresscritters wanted to see bush lose - as they thought he would hurt their reelections and their hold on Congress. They were whipped back into line. Bushco is becomming unhinged and unable to manage spin any more - now their attempts at spin are becoming the news itself. And there are THREE more years of disasters to be had courtesy of bushco and the GOP. Those folks on the Hill must be cringing.

Glad to see you :hi: - have to run but will try to check back in later today!

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. You're right. The Republicans will try to project all the negatives

to Bush. In fact, if this theory holds, they'll probably be the ones to give him the biggest thrashing, in the hopes that they come away from this clean.

The only way that we can offset this is if we have success indicting others like Tom Delay and Hasteret. Time to clean house in the GOP. We'll be doing them a favor.

[LibDemAlways]

41. "They hate minorities"

That's the bottom line with repukes. I have a bunch of wingnut cousins in New Jersey and Virginia who never miss an opportunity to condemn "welfare queens" and blacks who have "civil service" jobs. They firmly believe that all minorities are getting a free ride courtesy of their tax dollars.

Ironically, most of them are on the government payroll themselves as police officers, teachers, and employees of government contractors.

Hating minorities is a hell of a thing to unite a political party, but I think its ultimately what fuels the repuke coalition.

[xchrom]

37. yes, they are willing to take shrapnel.

economically motivated repukes are as motivated by their ideas as social conservatives are.

isn't it funny -- like corporations -- individuals seem to realize no body is going to ''make'' more money by earning it -- they want to ''make'' more money by reducing their taxes.

seems like a short sighted plan.

after all these years of reducing taxes on corporations the economy ought to be a raging bon fire, wouldn't you think?

of course these are simplifications -- but even clinton pointed out that he didn't NEED his four tax cuts.

[smoogatz]

42. Chaos creates opportunity for a few and misery for everyone else.

If your freeper-in-law thinks chaos is so great, he should spend a few months in Iraq. A smart, resourceful guy like him should be able to make millions.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Democrats are going to have to translate this into tangible proof.

For every person who did better under the Republican plan, how many did worse? Put it in real numbers, and the Democrats have a winning campaign issue.

[Kurovski]

44. Kick.--n/t

[knitter4democracy]

45. It all sounds like rationalization to me.

It sounds like he's really trying hard to wrap his brain around something that he knows is wrong and doesn't make good sense for him. That's why it's Bizarro World. He has massive cognitive dissonance between what he deep down knows to be right and what on the surface he thinks is right.

Wow. Things are going to get bad when they all figure it out. I wonder where they'll funnel their rage?

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. The Dems should try to anticipate where they'll funnel their rage next,

but, the only productive thing for Repubs to do at this time is to get introspective and listen to the news as the results of these investigations begin to trickle out.

If we can get them conditioned to shut off the right-wing spin, they might have a chance.

[knitter4democracy]

47. True.

I think they'll have a lot of voters staying home during the mid-terms--what they'll do after that is a real question.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Oh I am so sorry *hugs* What a day, eh?

[Jokinomx]

49. Thanks for Sharing...

Interesting read.... it made think of a new employee at work who admitted he was a conservative. When I mentioned the indictments were coming soon in the Plame investigation ... he shrugged it off and said she wasn't a real undercover op... all she was was a pencil pushing secretary. I responded that he had been listening to rush limbaugh to much....

He said "Nobody has ever proved him wrong!".... and added that he also stayed away from the liberal media..like ABC,NBC and CBS. He watched Fox.

At this point ... I realized I didn't have a chance in hell reasoning with him.

Its really scary to think how many people live in this grand illusion world created by the neo-cons.

[The Backlash Cometh]

51. Rush Limbaugh has never been proven wrong?

Isn't he listed in Al Franken's "Lies: An the Lying Liars who tell them?"

[Deja Q]

50. The Limbaugh Lie of his coupled with my enlightening response:

"he said don't worry because Republicans are steadily making more wealthy people in this country and soon there will be more people who are rich, and therefore, voting Republican for personal economic reasons, despite their political leanings."

Ask that utter fool how it's possible to have 300+ MILLION millionaires.

[The Backlash Cometh]

52. I told him he was living in a dream world.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. Well, there's no limit to how low the dollar can drop. n/t

[leesa]

53. We have GOT to demolish the myth that Republicans are good for the economy

Doesn't this guy look around him?? Republicans ALWAYS hurt the US economy.

[goodboy]

54. Repukes don't create rich people, they consolidate wealth for those

who are already rich anyway.

They are really good at creating poor, poverty-stricken people.


It's a reverse robin-hood.

[Inland]

55. Tell me there was an open bar, at least. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. Yes, but the freepers hogged it up.

[area51]

58. "... we need chaotic times to revitalize the economy."

WTF? He's forgetting the nazi party line that our economy is "booming", when it's obviously either in a recession or depression.

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. These people believe it. The right-wing elite like Wm. Kristol

and Saffire believe it.

This is a cycle we need to prepare to stop now, because it's a no-win situation for the middle class, and a tragic one for the poor. Think about what they're saying. In the next few years, the Dems will take great pains to build this country back up, putting us back into surplus years. And right when we think we have our safety nets in place, the right-wing will stoke up the fires of hatred again so that they can create chaotic events which will allow them to filter all our hard earned tax dollars to cronies like Halliburton. It's classwarfare, plain and simple.

This has happened before, and it will happen again. Where have I heard that before?