I'm part of the 50% of America that wants freedom FROM religion

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

and not freedom of religion.

Brief background: my father was a lapsed Catholic, I have no idea of my mother's familial religious background. There were a few half-hearted attempts to instill some religious upbringing ( bizarre hat and scratchy dress on Easter Sundays for about 2 years along with trip to Catholic Church where it was apparent that everyone chanted "I can play dominoes better than you" and stood up, sat down and kneeled upon certain cues). Other than those couple of Easter Sundays, the Sabbath in my family was sleeping in late and reading the Sunday papers and having a large family breakfast. I did occasionally watch "Davy and Goliath". The major part of my moral upbringing was my father earnestly telling me at one point that there was only one sin - to CONSCIOUSLY hurt another. I must have been at an imprintable point, because that advice has been my moral compass throughout my life and I really don't feel it needs to be any more complicated than that.

I have no desire to belong to ANY organized religion and I do not feel the need to have one shoved down my throat. I heard a quote at one point that completely summarizes how I feel:

Faith is about belief
Religion is about Control

I do not need or want to be part of any organized religious group. I am a moral, responsible, tax-paying American. My religion or lack of religion is no one's business. I deeply resent all of the pompous religiosity that has become a part of our public discourse. If I could, I would make private religious sentiment BARRED from political
debate - I feel it poisons the well.

If it were possible - I would put political candidates behind a screen and alter their voices and call them candidate A, B and C so you would not know who answered a particular question and judge them soley for the merit of their answers and not what your pre-concieved notions might be.

[Neil Lisst]

1. Good points. Everywhere you go ...

Prayers at every event, from sports events to luncheons, as if God cares about such things.

Show me a man or woman who accepts the duty to be moral without a religion to threaten or bribe them.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. Good moral compass

kind of like "love they neighbor as thyself." Works for me.

[wyldwolf]

3. I agree with you but I'm curious as to where the 50% figure came from

[DemBones DemBones]

4. How do you know that "50% of America wants

freedom FROM religion"? Seems like an overinflated claim to me.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. I believe that I have heard those figures and identify with them

I cannot cite a specific study and if someone else on this thread can be more and better specific then hooray! Possibly the census figures? I think that many Americans are agnostic. Anyone that wants to cite any statistical study, be my guest! I would like to know the truth of this.

[Zynx]

13. Last poll I saw was over 85% of Americans are religious in one way or

another. Only about 10%-15%(on the very high end) are agnostic or atheist.

http://pollingreport.com/religion.htm

About 2/3 of the way down there is a Gallup poll that shows 90% believe in God.

There is census data on it, but I'm too lazy to break down the numbers. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf

About 167 million out of 200 million adults claim a religion or about 84%.

That said, a huge percent of the religious, including myself, don't want religion shoved down our throats from the government. That simply isn't proper.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. I think one can be religious and still want freedom from religion.

I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but I think a lot of people just want to practice their faith privately and don't want the government or anyone else shoving their version of religion down their throats.

[Zynx]

21. I expressed that very position myself.

[Liberal Veteran]

24. Yeah...my bad.

I got so bogged down in the numbers part, I didn't get to your main point. :D

[HeeBGBz]

16. You can be non=religious and non-agnostic/atheist too

I have spiritual beliefs, but they are not a part of any organized religion. More like a composite of many beliefs. But I do believe in a God/higher power.

[Zynx]

19. The census largely confirms the figures that poll has.

I am simply presenting the data.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

18. but don't you think that many people answer that question

insincerely? In other words - their parents were/are Catholics or Episcopalians or whatever and so they check that box even though they themselves are not practicing?

And even I would check the box that asks if I beieve in God. If 85% of the population is PRACTICING a religion then wouldn't the amount of churches per population be far higher than it is? Why is the Catholic Church shutting down and condensing parishes for want of parishoners? Why is the priesthood waning? And are there regional differences? I have lived in the South and the Northeast and I KNOW the South has a far larger population of the actively religious.

[Zynx]

20. "Practicing" really is not a relevant statistic.

People consider themselves religious oftentimes without going to church very often. Believe it or not, about half or more of the "religious" don't see frequent church going as important to their faith.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

22. Thanks for the census link - it supports my 50% figure

look at page 56 of the census report . For some strange reason , it only reports 25 states, but those figures for "self-reported" Christians and Jews falls squarely around the 50% figure I used in my OP.

[Zynx]

25. Those are described as true adherents, but those who claim is a different

# altogether. The number on page 55 that claim a religion runs at around 84%.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

26. That's sort of what I was getting at

84% "describe" themselves as belonging to one sect or the other - (page 55) but if you ask the actual sects to report their memberships than it's much smaller (page 56)

I think many people "describe" themselves as "Christian" "Lutheran" "Catholic" "Jewish" or whatever.How many actively practice appears to be a far different number.

[Zynx]

28. I am not a "confirmed" Catholic, but I would check it on the census form.

However, I would not be described as "adherent" as I do not attend regularly. I believe faith is much more than entering a specific building once a week.

[Liberal Veteran]

10. Truth to tell, almost everyone wants to be free from religion....

....except for their own. It's like the whole public prayer, displays of religious holidays, school prayer, stuff....it's proponents are okay with it as long as it's their own form of faith.

On the other hand, if kids were asked to face Mecca a bow down 5 times a day a school, or pray to the goddess for a good harvest, or celebrate Phalguna, then said proponents would freak out royally.

So in a sense they want freedom from religion as well.

[niallmac]

5. Oh that it could be so.

I had a rural john boy upbringing with very similiar values offered. Aside from the occasional
Jehovahs Witness coming by once a year I do not recall the shrill use of religion to define candidates, issues, good guys and bad guys as I see nowl. Religion then was in the background and on Sunday mornings in my waspy little town.
I fear that the real evil ones realize that religion in America is the revolving door to power and fascism and I am confounded as how to stop the trend.

[SW FL Dem]

6. Good Post

I keep trying to explain to my fundie neighbor that although I consider myself a Christian, I find her religion offensive since it condemns my Jewish hubby to hell. I was raised in a family similar to yours, the emphasis was on trying to be the best person you could be, respecting other people, loving God's children even if they were different from you, respecting animals and the environment, because they were gifts from God.

[Solly Mack]

7. I'd like to be free from other people's religion , yes

"I would make private religious sentiment BARRED from political
debate "

I'd vote for that

:)

[DanCa]

9. Good points but isn't the percentage higher or is it wishful thinking on

my part? Note anytime someone wants to form a picket line across the fundie churches to protest the policies of the churches and not the people in the pews let me know.

[yourout]

11. Amen......Phoebe.

Religious extremism in any form is the greatest threat to the survival of man in my eyes.

[jonnyblitz]

12. definitely freedom FROM for me also.

:thumbsup:

[savemefromdumbya]

14. Is this just a Christian thing?

one doesn't see many Buddhists shoving religion down everyone's throats? Religion = power and control. The best way is going about religion quietly. After all it is a personal thing?

[tnlefty]

17. George Bush** and his cult-like followers have almost turned me

into an agnostic! I can't believe the numbers of people who swear by the 10 commandments, profess to believe in truth, freedom and decency, and overlook the lying, corrupt "emperor" that they helped to install into office. My kids have no desire to attend church anymore, Episcopal is the only church they've known, and they are seriously questioning what they believed. I've lived with people slamming my church of choice for years, but my children are being insulted and harassed in school with more frequency, and they're just damned sick of it. They see the hypocrisy and nothing is making sense to them anymore. Somehow I don't think that this type of backlash is what the so-called religious right had in mind.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

23. Aye, aye, aye.

:toast::toast:

[zippy890]

27. I am definately in that group

I do not want religion in my face, the schools or government.

Democrats need to come out strong on this - the separation of church & state is enormously important

[ladjf]

29. Great post! Please include me in your group.

Religion may be the greatest threat to the continuation of the human race. It is leading vast hordes of people over the cliff of extinction.

[Telly Savalas]

30. While I agree with your sentiment that the public sphere should be secular

I take great issue with your contention that religion is about control. How is it an instrument of control in denominations like the Quakers? The Unitarians? Buddhists? The United Church of Canada?

[KT2000]

31. Agree with you post

whole heartedly.

[PatriotMom]

32. I agree with you completely.....

I have no problem with someone that wants religion in their life, but I don't happen to. It becomes a problem when those people want to impose/inflict it on me. I don't live by superstition and I don't want to start, my life is simple and that kind of stuff is very complicating, why would I want that? I have never taught my children any religion, and they have less fear than most children I have met that go to church. It seems they have to start the kids out with the devil and hell at a very young age, to me that is abuse.