Police/Civilian relations -how to improve?

[Bonobo]

I have a big problem with the relationship between police and civilians in the US. Many police seem to forget the "Serve and Protect" part of their job duties and have developed real contempt and loathing for the general populace. I'm sure it is a checken-and-egg situation, but the power is on the side of the police and it is their job to act professionally.

It is not this way in all countries. I have lived in Japan for many years and I can tell you that Japanese people feel safer when there are police around, not threatened with potential violence. I am sure many police are well-intentioned people, but let's face it: there is a problem.

So what can be done about this? How do we improve relations with the police and, in doing so, reduce their tendency towards ultra-violence?

I'd like to hear opinions from some of the police on this board too. (Why do they always dissappear when taser/police beating threads are around?)

[zalinda]

1. Why do they disappear?

It's because they get beat on, here on the board. Why should they subject themselves to it?

Yes, there are some bad cops, but for the most part they are good. Unfortunately the bad cops are the ones to get the press. Cops who do their jobs correctly basically go unnoticed. For every traffic stop gone bad, there are tens of thousands that have gone well. For every bad arrest, there are tens of thousands that have been good. Everyone seems to have a bad cop story, whether true or not. The truth is cops can get jaded, they see the worst in people all the time. Do they sometimes get rough, yes. But, what are they to do when a person doesn't co-operate? If all they want to check you to see if you are who you say you are, because you are in a place that you don't seem to belong in, and you don't take your hands out of your pockets, can they assume that you aren't armed, because you say so? If they ask you to take your hands out of your pockets and you don't comply, should they just shrug their shoulders and walk away? How much responsibility do you give the person who is resisting the cop? Then, of course, if you rob a store later, the cops are held responsible because they didn't stop you when they had a chance. Give me a break! Blame the bad cops, but don't put them all in the same bad light.

As far as Japan goes, they have strict gun laws and that is a much better climate than our cops enjoy. Our cops have to worry all the time if they are going to get shot. And our citizens are not as polite as the Japanese. I doubt very much that a Japanese citizen would resist taking their hands out of their pockets, just to be a smart ass to a cop.

Remember all your negative comments about cops when your house has been robbed, or you are stranded by the side of the road, or you are lost in the city, or your child is missing. Remember, cops do good work too.

zalinda

[Village Idiot]

2. I must disagree.

Judging from my own personal and wholly UNPLEASANT experiences with law enforcement, I would say that the vast majority of COPs, ON THE WHOLE, treat EVERYONE as suspects FIRST and citizens afterwards.

I have NEVER met ANY of the good ones.

I am not (and have never been) a criminal. My personal experiences stem from helping out (physically, legally and financially) someone WRONGLY accused (and later acquitted, no contest) of being a criminal.

During a two year period in which this person was UNJUSTLY accused of a drug "CONSPIRACY" and brought up on charges, he was not allowed to live with his wife and family ("co-conspirators"), so I put up his bond and let him live in my guest house.

BOTH my OWN HOME and my guest house were searched (via warrant) three times by these ASSHOLE police officers, they REPEATEDLY threatened this guy's (AND MY OWN) children, they ABUSED two of my hounds (champion-bred Blue Ticks), trashed my property, broke things, etc.

I now think of police as NAZIs, period. If I had EVER been treated by the humourless cocksuckers, known by the majority of Canadians as "RCMP," as badly as THIS individual has, I would now be in prison (and deservedly so) for manslaughter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I have had both

mostly good experiences, but I also have had my share of encounters with bad apples.

[Ladyhawk]

8. I was pleasantly surprised at how well I was treated during my one

and only real brush with the law. I didn't expect it, either, because this is a red county and my brother--who is a correctional officer--has the attitude that most think of when they think of out-of-control peace officers.

But I have to say kudos to the officers. They were practically the only people who treated me like a human being that day.

[400Years]

3. most cops view citizens as the enemy

yes, there are a few well meaning cops, but by and large most of them have nothing but contempt for joe citizen. I see it everyday.

[porphyrian]

6. Anyone who has friends or families in law enforcement...

...knows that the unwritten rule is that people are guilty until proven innocent. It's how they stay alive when so many people hate them just for being cops. The problem is that they are asked to put their lives on the line to enforce laws that many people don't agree with in the first place, but that isn't their place to do anything about. Laws are made by legislators, both state and federal. One big step towards improving relations between cops and the community would be to fix or eliminate existing laws that people don't agree with, and to pay closer attention to what laws our elected legislators make while they're there.

[400Years]

7. Was it "survival" when they shoved that broom up Abner Louima's ass?

No, neither was it survival when they were conducting mass arrests during the RNC.

[porphyrian]

9. That wasn't all the cops in the US.

Do you blame the entire military for the Abu Gharaib abuses, too?

I'm not denying that there needs to be better screening in the hiring process in law enforcement, but I'm not willing to say that they are all equally responsible for the crimes of a few.

If just hate all cops, I won't be able to change your mind. However, that's an intellectually dishonest stance.

[400Years]

10. This type of abuse is rather common, most of it is unreported

As I stated above, there are some well meaning people who join the force, but by and large policing is used for political purposes. Look at the mass arrests during the RNC. That was a systematic use of police forces to supress political dissent. This phenomena is not limited to the U.S., in fact it is worse in many countries. My main point is that
the police are used for political purposes by those in control.

[porphyrian]

12. So then the politicians are to blame...

...not the police. The average cop cannot be blamed for abuse of the command structure they depend on to stay alive. If you don't like the shots that are called, don't vote those people into office. If you don't like the laws that are enforced, vote for different legislators who will change them.

That said, I do feel it is an individual cop's responsibility to be fair in the use of force and the enforcement of laws. The problem with a police force is that it attracts not only those with a passion for justice, but also those with a passion for control and power. Normally, the worst of these people are screened out in the hiring process. However, bad people do make it through, and we have incidents like the one recently publicized in New Orleans. If a racist makes it into a position to do the hiring, they can hire other racists. New Orleans PD has been among the top ten most corrupt police departments in the country, along with LAPD, NYPD and the police department of Jacksonville, Florida. This is a shame, and it should be corrected. However, demonizing all police officers for these crimes is also wrong.

[400Years]

14. I blame all those who actively take part in denying us our liberty

just saying "It's my job" doesn't cut it.
That type of arguement was dealt with at the Nuremburg trials.

[porphyrian]

16. So then we're in agreement.

We need to remove the laws that deny us our liberty by replacing the politicians who won't do so or who are making the problem worse so that police are not asked to enforce unfair laws. We must also improve the screening process for hiring new police officers, and we must work to remove corruption from existing law enforcement agencies, beginning with those officers who openly abuse their position of power.

As to the "ve vere just following orders" reference, I am also in agreement with you, and that wasn't what I was saying. The command structure of police and military outfits is designed to protect the lives of the people within that structure when faced with life-threatening situations. However, corrupt individuals within that structure can and do abuse it. This is not a failing of the command structure, but a failing of the screening process designed to prevent corrupt individuals from attaining positions of power within that system. There also exist rules within that command structure that permit individuals within that structure to refuse to follow orders when the person giving the orders is insane, corrupt or otherwise out of order.

The thing is that cops never get credit for all of the times that they do exercise good judgement and break the rules, they are only criticized for not doing so. How many times have you broken a law and NOT been ticketed or arrested? Speed lately? J-walk? Purchase, possess and/or use illegal drugs? Place a bet? Leave your horse untethered outside the court house (admittedly an old one, but still on the books in some places)? Spit in public? Fail to properly yeild the right of way? Tamper with someone's mailbox? Inaccurately fill out a legal document? Litter? Play loud music? The list goes on. Though it's likely that any of these crimes you may have committed were done without being observed by law enforcement, I guarantee they weren't all unobserved. Ever thank the ones that let you go?

[porphyrian]

4. Surprisingly, you can look to Tallahassee Police Department in Florida.

As the result of the findings of a special commision to investigate race relations between TPD and the community, a number of changes were made that actually worked somewhat. Let me see about a link...

[porphyrian]

5. Here's something...

At the bottom of this page:
http://www.theiacp.org/awards/CivilRights/2004civilwinners.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. A tale of a bad PD gone good

Those of you who didn't see it may have a problem but this is how you do it.

In the bad old days of the 1980s San Diego PD was far from professional, with many abusive cops, some openly racists. There were some shootings, the usual suspects mostly. But instead of leading to a riot... or any other form of violence that would have increased the spiral, the Civilians in the usual suspect population organized and demanded a civilian review board. Now those have been formed in other places... this one is special. Nobody served on it for more than two terms. No police or for that matter police related people serve on it, though if you have some experience it helps... as in EMS \ Fire or even the occasional former cop.

But no active duty.

Or relatives of active duty cops.

It gets better...

The members of the board are required to take some of the academy training, one class a quarter, so they are aware of what the cops are being trained on... a favorite is use of force and how to.

They are also required to ride along with the cops once a quarter and they cannot just do it in the "safe areas of town" So when a case comes before them, they can and will have a clue of what is going on in the field.

Now you may think this creates too cozy of a relationship, it has not. The board has also rewritten the standards of behavior for the Department and even the uniform was changed on their recommendation and the traditional white cars SDPD used to use, have been replaced by black and whites

As to cops and how they are trained and who they face... folks remember this, the cops deal with the five percent of the population that does not play well it others... and in some cases it is an undeclared war out there... that said, this civilian review board (as well as the DA) examines every weapons discharge, outside the range that it, and they also review most use of force where there are complaints.

What has that done? this PD has gone from one of the worst departments in SoCal to a very professional department. Now one thing that also helps to improve relations, but lower budgets are also eliminating are community police officers. yep cops who WALK a beat... they are also critical to improving relations, for a squad creates this barrier

So you want to improve relations: Insist on the formation of a civilian review board, give san diego's as a model, and insist that money is allocated to community policing, both will go quite a ways to improving relations...

[Bonobo]

17. Thank you for that excellent example of how it is done.

[BiggJawn]

18. How was the uniform changed?

I'm particularly intrigued by that, because around thse parts, "Uniform of the Day" is a shaved head, black "Tactical Gear", rolled up sleeves, "Bladz" sunglasses and lead-filled "Sap" gloves. Real hard-assed look. I think some of them jerk-off to Robo-Cop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. They went from a kahki uniform that sometimes confused

them with the CHP, to the standard "LA Blue" blues, that are common all up and down the coast.

The only peiople who use fatigues, or battle gear are swat during well SWAT.

So if you look at LAPD, mostly the same uniform, with the same blue shade et al...

As to the hair cut, it has to be short for males, for the profesional look, (and harder to grap in hand to hand... scuffiles) and either short or tied up for females.

I was a medic for ten years and though I am female I wore my hair very short...

Oh and sunglasses are allowed during the day, and for oficers who wear contacts they are needed.

Hope this helps

[BiggJawn]

20. Thanks!

Been so long since I've seen a cop in "standard blues" I'll have to go hunting for a picture.
As I said, the battle gear is daily uni for most of the patrol officers.

[triguy46]

15. Seems like the biggest obstruction is black skin.

Seems like it serves as a red cape to a bull.