Are we serious about alternate feuls? Brazil's already on it.

[tuvor]

Brazil fights oil prices with alcohol

By Andrew Downie, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor Fri Oct 7, 4:00 AM ET

RIO DE JANEIRO - Brazilians aren't waiting for high-priced hybrid cars.

Drivers are fighting rising gasoline prices by buying "flex" or "flexible fuel" cars that slurp more alcohol.

Alcohol made from sugar cane is becoming the fuel of choice in Brazil, and other countries - so much so that global sugar prices hit a seven-year high this week.

Regular car engines will run fine on a 10 percent blend of alcohol and gasoline. But by using computer sensors that adjust to whatever mix is in the tank, flex car engines run on either ethanol, gasoline, or any combination of the two. And they have been roaring out of dealerships here since Volkswagen sold the first TotalFlex Golf in March 2003.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20051007/wl_csm/oflex

[eleny]

1. Ethanol

From the article:
"Ethanol engines use 25 percent more ethanol per mile than gasoline. But ethanol (the alcohol produced by fermenting sugar) usually sells at somewhere between a third to half of the price of gas. Even people who were reluctant to take the plunge and buy a flex say they have been won over by the savings."

Ethanol is in our gas here in Colorado during the winter. Yet, the fuel prices are the same year round. America - what a country! Pfui.

[liberal N proud]

5. Gas with ethanol is priced the same because it is dispensed by the same

corporations that produce and sell petroleum.

In Iowa, the Ethanol blend is rated at a higher octane level than the regular blends of gasoline, there for you get mid grade gas at regular price.

[eleny]

12. Thanks for the details!

[whirlygigspin]

2. How much is a Brazilian???

:rofl:

[eleny]

3. Depends on who's doing the counting!

:spray:

[skids]

4. Not economical here.

Brazil has a good sugarcane climate, so ethanol production is economical.

Here we have corn and beets. Not such a good source.

We could do pyrolytic methanol using a high cellulose crop like hemp, but that's different as it requires a little modification to engine design to avoid rubber/plastic from contacting the fuel.

Biodiesel has a lot more promise than I used to give it credit for. What I'll say about that is that it is here to stay. Barring invention of something straight out of a sci-fi novel, people will be using biosdiesel 10 years from now, guaranteed. How big it will get, well any guess is speculation.

And I don't know where people get this "high priced" hybrid bullcrap from. Consumers regularly pay more for stupid options like backseat TVs and cooled seats than the cost of a hybrid system. Which, by the way, is declining with each model year.

[Coastie for Truth]

7. Sugarcane?

Any carbohydrate containing fruit or vegetable can be a source of EtOH.

I have home brewed, home vintnered, and even bootlegged, in my younger days.

[norml]

8. We could import sugar. If we lift sugar import barriers it would be cheap.

And of course we could use all possible alternatives to petroleum, rather than putting it all on any one alternate.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. EtOH is feasible here, now, as are the various and sundry fuels

variously called "biodiesel" and as is Fischer-Tropsch "syngas."

The issues are "infrastructure" and "political" and the biggest political issue is the massive and its political lobbying arm, (Note: That's APIPAC, not AIPAC). Any doubts - CAFE is still atrocious, and the GOP passed the API Energy Bill 212-210 on Friday.

Check out my blog, http://thinkersunderground.blogspot.com/>

[dweller]

9. hemp oil should do the job here

why else would the oil companies be so against it?

dp

[Skink]

10. They need the corn for Franken foods....

If the food conglomerates had to start useing cane sugar again Diabetes would go down but the massive profit margins would go with them. And we're still trying to stick it to Castro.

[pitohui]

11. it ruins landscapes tho

i should prob. keep my mouth shut since in the usa the money would flow to louisiana, where cane is grown, but i'm not sure we need much more land under cultivation

agriculture kills diversity & habitat just as dead as global warming