The North Still Has A Lot Of Racism To Deal With. Hell We All Do.

[DistressedAmerican]

Now lets all own up that fact and get on with doing something about it.

We should be able to discuss race problems in all locations in the country without it becoming an us/them, north/south pissing match.

Can we all agree to just not act all hostile about it? I really think it gets in the way of the discussion.

I think we all pretty well agree that racism:
--Is pretty much odious.
--Is an issue to a greater or lesser degree all over the country.
--Is not restricted to blacks and whites.
--Creates divisions that are exploited by the political power elite to keep us in different camps and at each other's throats.
--Has been used as a tool to varying degrees by the different political parties in different regions of the country.
--Is intimately linked to class issues.
--And is a historical undercurrent that pervades the entire nation's history to a greater or lesser degree from region to region for a variety of longstanding reasons.

That should be a good starting point. Let's avoid the hostility and division that usually pervades the discussion of race here and agree to those basic facts. Once we have those understandings established, we can start to talk a bit more openly about the broader issues.

Surely there are other statements I am missing in this list. But, it is a good start.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. MUCH better. MUCH. MUCH.

THANK YOU. :D :D

[DistressedAmerican]

2. Trying To Redirect To A More Positive Area Of Discussion.

:hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

3. Yes, definitely.

I would like to have a reasonable discussion on racism with people.

:hi:

[Kipling]

4. Classism is racism.

People discriminate against blacks in the same way they discriminate against people wearing oily overalls or speaking in a working class accent. Black skin is a symbol of class. Get rid of classism - get rid of the idea that some people are innately better than others - and racism will vanish too.

[QC]

5. Remarkable how little interest this thread has attracted.

People just don't much care to discuss their own shortcomings--much more fun to point out someone else's.

[DistressedAmerican]

6. Certainly not the 200 post flameout my last thread turned into...

[AnnInLa]

7. A shot in the dark here.......just off the top of my head..

I could be TOTALLY off-base.....might be my imagination.....

Perhaps from the tone of your last original post, people don't want to become involved in one of your (either intended or not-intended) flame-bait threads again? You didn't even attempt to apologize to those that you offended, and yet you try to start another similar thread, hoping for....what? (Altho, the fact that you worded this thread quite tactfully means you could have done the same with the last thread, but did not...intentionally or non-intentionally?) I hope that your last original post wasn't meant to offend Southerners, but the way you expressed it did...and, you can't express regret about your previous wording.

I think people don't quite trust your disclaimer about wanting to have an honest debate/discussion about racism. I don't think I do....

Just sayin'

[Tomee450]

9. I don't see the need for an apology.

I am African American and have lived in both North and south. I have relatives and friends living in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia and they tell of the racism they have experienced. The south is still a deeply racist part of the country. Blacks sometimes are fearful of traveling too far away from the large urban areas. The attitude of some white southerners towards blacks is blatantly condescending. Some still have the "black as a boy attitude." I can remember watching a trial on Court TV which took place in which the attorneys called the white wittnesses Mr. Mrs. etc. However, when speaking to the black wittness, they called him by his first name. Even the Court Tv anchors were appalled. Yes there is racism in the north elsewhere in the country but it is in the south that blacks are most likely to experience blatant racism and violence at the hands of ordinary people. It is mainly in the south where the Confederate flag is thrown in our faces on a daily basis.

I might remind you and others that James Byrd was lynched in the South. Since his death, there have been several other lynchings in southern states that were called suicides but the funny thing is, several of the victims were involved in interracial relationships. I might also add that Georgia has now passed the equivalent of a new pole tax designed to disenfranchise poor voters, most of them minorities. Furthermore, in Georgia a young black man was lucky enough to be acquitted of rape of a white girl but the sheriff tried to get him convicted on another charge having to do with the woman being under aged. She was about one year younger than the accused. It was all about the defendant being black.

In Alabama, the schools are in deplorable condition. Most blacks attend public schools, many whites attend private academies. The governor tried to raise taxes to improve the schools but his plan was voted down. Also in Alabama, the population voted to keep a segregation era law on the books. I find it hard to understand the hysteria shown by some southerners just because people told the truth about the south. Tulia, Texas, Vidor Texas, both examples of extreme racism. In many small southern towns, blacks are still not treated fairly and in some of those small towns they are afraid to complain. I have not heard of cases in the north or elsewhere, where the blacks and white students have separate proms. I haven't heard of any case in which black senior citizens coming home from a shopping trip are driven off the road by white men in a pickup who killed one of them. That occurred in Maryland. And I have not heard of any place in the north where a black tourist minding his own business has had gasoline thrown on him and was set afire. That happened in Florida. My sister and I traveled the back roads of several northern states without any fear whatsoever. The only thing that happened to us was a breakdown of our car and some whites passing by helped us with that problem. I would be afraid to travel the back roads of Miss,Ala, Georgia, Texas or Georgia for fear of meeting klan types. There is still that klan mentality in the south. The south went Republican for only one reason, race. So yes the south is still a very racist place and it's too bad that some southerners will not accept the truth.

[DistressedAmerican]

10. So Sorry Your Little Feelings Were Hurt. Why Fucking Even Bother?

I asked the other thread be locked and started this one for one reason only and that was to have this discussion without all of the regional defensiveness.

Either participate and don't act all snarky or don't.

Either take my new thread as an attempt to get past the first or don't.

Like I care at this fucking point. Jesus. Get over it.

[DanCa]

8. I agree and you know what the tragic thing is.

If you take the time to get to know someone you can probably find alot better reasons to dislike a person than based on skin color and religion.

[Sapphire Blue]

11. And if one looks beyond skin color, religion, etc. & gets to know another

... person, one can find a multitude of reasons to like the other person... trouble is, too many people don't take the time to look beyond the physical.

[ultraist]

12. Objective measures of racism

It's important to consider objective measures when discussing racism. 1. Inequalities in: income, education, healthcare, power positions, lifespan, wealth, loan rate approvals, etc 2. Integration: interracial marriage rates, neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, etc

It's fine for people to share their personal experiences and offer up andectotal evidence, but unless we look at the facts, we aren't able to really consider solutions. Furthermore, focusing the brunt of the problem on one region serves to diminish the nationwide problem. There seems to be a Northern denial phenonmen that occurs on DU.

http://chicago.about.com/cs/health/a/011704_health.htm

Health Gap Between Blacks and Whites Grows in Chicago

Results contrast sharply with nationwide findings

A study published in the January issue of the American Journal of Public Health stated that from 1990 to 1998, the health of African Americans in the United States improved in 14 different categories, closing the gap between blacks and whites in every category except three. In Chicago, however, the statistics were totally reversed, with whites showing greater improvement in every category except three. One reason being given for the disparity is the lack of medical insurance among blacks. According to the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau, 20.2 percent of African Americans in the U.S. have no health insurance (compared to 14.2 of whites).

http://www.detnews.com/2004/specialreport/0405/17/a01-153972.htm

Today: A half-century later, school integration is elusive in Metro Detroit.

Zack Brown ties his friend Allen Martin's shoe at Woodcreek Elementary. Eight out of 10 white students in the region attend schools that are 3 percent black.

Students and adults gather around Detroit's Zachariah Chandler Elementary. Fifty years after court-ordered desegregation, Detroit has some of the most segregated schools in the country.

A half-century after court-ordered desegregation of America’s schools, Metro Detroit classrooms remain starkly divided by color.

From the playgrounds of Detroit elementaries to the chemistry labs of suburban high schools, our children learn and play around children who look like themselves. And while that pattern exists to varying degrees across the nation, nowhere in America are black and white children more separate.

http://www.detnews.com/2002/census/0209/19/a01-583173.htm

Prosperity can't close Metro area income gap
Despite economic surge, blacks in 1999 made 60 cents for every dollar earned by whites

By Brad Heath / The Detroit News

BLOOMFIELD HILLS -- A decade of prosperity swept unevenly through Metro Detroit, lifting the fortunes of blacks and other minorities, but still leaving them far behind their white neighbors, U.S. Census figures show

http://mumford.albany.edu/census/othersay/separate.html

The Manhattan P.S. 6 is overwhelmingly white and includes only a smattering of poor students. Its East Flatbush counterpart is more than 92 percent black, with almost 90 percent of its students from families with low enough incomes to qualify the children for a free school lunch. The differences between these schools reflect the state of education in New York City public schools today, 50 years after the Supreme Court outlawed legally enforced school segregation in the United States. Despite a far greater ethnic diversity, with an increasing number of Asian and Hispanic students, New York City public schools are among the most segregated in the country." New York Schools: Fifty Years After Brown, May 05, 2004, Author: Gail Robinson

http://powerreporting.com/color/53.html

The Color of Money
Follow-ups and reaction

Blacks turned down for home loans
from S&Ls twice as often as whites

The black-white disparity in rejection rates was widest in the Plains (30.9 percent black vs. 12.6 percent white) and the Midwest (29.6 percent vs. 12.2 percent), even though blacks in the two regions have the nation's highest incomes relative to whites.

The black-white gap has roughly doubled in 13 of the 17 cities: Atlanta, Baltimore, Bridgeport, Conn.; Buffalo, N.Y.; Chicago; Cleveland; Galveston-Texas City, Texas; Jackson, Miss.; Jersey City, N.J.; Memphis, Tenn.; Tampa-St. Petersburg, Fla.; Topeka, Kan.; and Washington. The gap narrowed in Montgomery, Ala.; San Antonio, Texas; San Diego, Calif.; and Tucson, Ariz.



http://www.umich.edu/~urel/admissions/legal/expert/sugru11.html

The reasons for high rates of impoverishment among African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans are many-fold. Blacks are most likely to live in areas that have been left behind by the profound restructuring of the national and international economy: major metropolitan areas, particularly in the northeast and midwest or underdeveloped and very poor areas in the "black belt" region of the deep South.