"I've tried spanking him with a switch like Dr. Dobson says...."

[Rose Siding]

snip>
"I don't know where else to go," one young mother told social worker Sarah Helus, breaking down as she described her headstrong 3-year-old.

"I've tried spanking him with a switch like Dr. Dobson says, but it hasn't been effective," the mother said. "I've tried explaining to him that Mommy and Daddy make mistakes too and we all have to ask Christ's forgiveness. Nothing works. And I just lose it."

As her son howled in the background, the woman said she had read three of Dobson's parenting books, including "The Strong-Willed Child," several times. They hadn't much helped, but she hadn't lost faith. She begged for a few minutes to ask Dobson how, precisely, she should respond if her son throws a fit in Wal-Mart.

Helus told her gently that Dobson doesn't take calls.
....
The calls reinforce the ministry's view that America's moral foundation is crumbling — and must be shored up with political action to curb pornography, end abortion, revoke no-fault divorce laws and stop recognizing gay relationships as legitimate.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/columnone/la-na-focus7oct07,1,2617219.story?page=3&coll=la-headlines-columnone

[benburch]

1. Hoe the FUCK is a three year old effected by...

pornography, abortion, gay rights or any of that shit?

I'd like to take a switch, hell, a baseball bat to "Rev" Dobson.

[GreenPartyVoter]

104. Exactly. That group of people are certifiable.

:eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

109. yeah!

A baseball bat with a railroad spike in it!

Sorry, I know violence isn't the answer, but for someone like Dobson, it calms me to visualize it.

[Turd Ferguson]

2. lol

How dumb are some people?

[Straight Shooter]

3. A switch on a 3-year-old?

That's not teaching them the love of Christ; that's teaching them the laws of Pontius Pilate.

[benburch]

5. Why do you think the child is fucked up like that?

They used the switch, but what they needed was love, constancy, and maybe even some help from a professional psychologist or psychiatric social worker.

I had a problem child. We spent a decade in therapy with him and it was hard as hell. But you know, now, in his 20s, he is straightening out just fine, and soon will be a certified medical assistant, and wants to join the Red Cross.

[Tikki]

14. This is it bb...it takes hard work and imagination to find....

...a way to work with a problem child, not just fearful phrases and violent actions...

We, also, followed a path similar to yours... and the young man, now a happy, well adjusted 30 year old, is doing amazing things with his life.



The Tikkis

[benburch]

53. I added it up once...

And we spent (including insurance) like a half-million dollars on my son's therapy.

The uncovered portion caused me to have to declare bankruptcy.

[porphyrian]

94. You mean, there's not fast-food remedy...?

I mean, can't we just pray and everything works out fine?
</sarcasm>

Can we charge Dobson with enciting child abuse?

[Straight Shooter]

17. I think Dobson had a switch the size of a tree trunk used on him,

up the side of his head too many times. The man is batsh!t crazy if he thinks using a switch on a 3-year-old is appropriate. I don't have kids, but every maternal "instinct" in my bones absolutely screams that this is wrong on so many levels.

[FreedomAngel82]

102. I wouldn't use a switch either

:\

[tsuki]

31. And take him off all that crap you're feeding him. Try some

food without colours, flavours and BHA, BHT and TBHQ. Ditch the koolade and milk. Try water. You will be surprised how behaviors can sometimes be linked to poor nutrition. I was.

[mike_c]

40. no no no-- feeding them is the problem-- withhold food and make...

...them read the Bible instead. God's spiritual nourishment is all the nourishment they need.

:sarcasm:

[Coexist]

76. Ever hear of an anorexic 9 month old??

Strict parenting models are not right for every child -

http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/hseihtestimony.pdf

[teknomanzer]

56. I think the parents should seek counseling...

Unstable people should not be raising children.

[ninkasi]

57. You child is lucky

He obviously has loving, caring parents who worked with him, got him therapy, and it sounds like he's going to be a valued member of society. We need more parents like you. Congratulations, I know it wasn't easy!

[FreedomAngel82]

100. My younger cousin used to be wild

But now he's a lot better. I don't know if he's just growing up or what. Whenever he would act up when I was around him my aunt would just whopp his butt (which of course was padded with a diaper) and motherly scold him of what he did wrong and corrected him. Now he's a lot more calm.

[shanti]

145. shoot, that was COMMON

"back in the bad old days". in fact, i and lots of others remember well having old dad make us go to the yard and get a switch (and it better not be too small!) :eyes:

[shenmue]

4. Yes,

America's 'moral foundation' is crumbling because adults can't beat up three-year-olds.

No, America's moral foundation is crumbling because Dobson is an @^?#$!&.

[mike_c]

6. OMFG-- where do these people come from...?

There must be a genetic basis for cluelessness....

[Rose Siding]

19. His literature lists defending civil rights as one of liberals' ills...

The cluelessness is rampant...

A recent edition of the ministry's flagship Focus on the Family magazine defined conservatives as championing democracy, human rights and "the cause of freedom around the world," while "liberals defend civil rights, abortion, pornography and homosexuality."

[sarcasmo]

55. Dobson helped get Stern booted of many stations. The new focus

for the Religious we are always right is going to be the billion dollar porn industry.

[XemaSab]

116. Genetic basis for cluelessness?

You mean, like a trait encoded in the genome handed down to one's offspring in accordance with the rules laid down by Mendel and Darwin, among others?

And totally discount the stuggle between God and Satan for the soul of this child?

Not buying it, sorry...

:P

[gauguin57]

7. Oh, that SWITCH business. I've heard so many stories about people

whose parents made them go out to a tree in the yard and choose the switch with which they're to be beaten. My grandfather used to do that to my father.

Barbaric. Totally effing barbaric. Love of Christ my fanny!

[mike_c]

35. my parents and GRANDPARENTS used to do that to me....

My grandmother was the worst-- she'd tell us that if we picked a switch that broke or wasn't long enough she'd just make us do it again, and if she had to chose the switch we'd REALLY get it. I spent a respectable portion of early childhood with red stripes on my legs and butt. I would have thought that would trigger legal intervention these days.

[gauguin57]

93. I'm so sorry to hear about that, mike c ...

I'm sorry they did that to you, and I hope you've been able to make peace with it in some way. I don't know whether I'd have been strong enough not to be scarred for life. I would HOPE that would trigger legal intervention these days.

[ozarkvet]

105. Willow tree

We had a white willow tree on the creek where I would have to go cut the switch --- or, if I was REALLY a little prick, my sister/brother would get to go cut the switch.

It WAS pretty barbaric, but I was a BAD kid --- probably should have been in jail --- drugs, fights at school, etc --- while my brother (doctor) and sister (Major in Air Force) were little angels, and, to my knowledge, never required so much as a flat handed swat on the fanny.

We had a boring, loving, home. Dad and mom seldom even raised their voices at each other, and then over normal stuff people disagree about. Certainly no family violence of any kind. They didn't spank or anything (and didn't need to) until I was probably 12, and I really started to be a bad kid.

To use the worst incident, I hit my mom when I was 13. I was over 200lbs at the time and a football player.

No cops were called. Dad was called. They talked quietly in their room. Dad came out to talk to me and then, out of the blue, dad swung a coldcock punch, which knocked me flat to the ground --- broke a tooth, no less. I was then sent to live with grandpa (across the farm) for month. He nearly worked me to death.

In hindsight, I deserved to get my face pounded in, or go to jail, but the discussion was that I would pick up worse habits in jail, so a pounding was most appropriate.

I certainly never raised my hand against my mother again.

I agree that corporal punishment is not ideal, but sometimes some kids (like me) do not respond to anything else.

And no, I do not beat my wife or child, nor do I react with innappropriate violence in life in general. That punch was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[Bill McBlueState]

111. that's awful

Whatever good you think it did for your dad to punch you in the face and break your tooth, don't go around advocating that as some kind of helpful parenting strategy. It's fucking barbaric.

[ozarkvet]

115. Barbaric, yes.

But I preferred it to juvenile hall, where I would have been among all the other proto-thugs learning bad habits, preying upon others and being preyed upon.

"Time out" (the method my wife and I most often use) sometimes doesn't cut it.

[prolesunited]

139. And when the time out method "doesn't cut it"

What do you do? How old are your child/ren?

[ozarkvet]

141. My children

Are not drug-addled little twits like I was.

Time Out works quite well for them. Indeed, one crys if Mom frowns at her.

[ozarkvet]

142. To further clarify

I was posting regarding children who are quiet bad, such as I was.

I presume my lack of clarity was the basis of your confusion.

[yodermon]

130. Dude.

You were NEVER a little prick.
You were NOT a "bad kid".

You did, however, become convinced that these things were true, and then acted accordingly.

When children are punished, here is what goes thru their subconcious:

"Well, those who Love me and Care for me the most are {pounding|switching|punching|ridiculing|shaming|ignoring|mocking} me, therefore I must be Bad. Ergo, I have no choice but to fulfill the role that's being laid out for me. I am Bad, and will do Bad Things."

You have not come to terms with this, as evidenced by the defense of your abusers.

I wish you the best.

[ozarkvet]

136. Yes, I was so abused /s/

I was a 200 lbs kid whose mother found his drugs (which I was selling) and flushed them down the toilet, then confronted me.

I, being a little prick drug dealer, punched her, demanding my drugs. She was about 115lbs sopping wet. I proceded to kick her.

Dad came home and they made a reasoned decision --- based on my prior experience in JV Hall where I picked up my bad habits --- to use extreme corporal punishment versus having me arrested.

As a result of this and other strict discipline I avoided JV hall, went from an drug-addicted "F" studnet to a "B" student, had a successful stint in the Army, where I earned several accomodations for valor (as a medic, which is hard to do), and am now enrolled in college, work as a paramedic saving lives, and where I have a 4.0 average, a loving wife, and a lovely child.

There was no ridiculing, shaming, ignoring, or mocking in the home.

Both of my siblings are just fine, as I am NOW.

I just bought into the "oh, woe is me, I'm black" B.S. and started acting like a thug.

I was, objectively speaking, BACK THEN a horrible little twit. Stole cars. Broke into homes. Took drugs. Talked back to teachers. Lied. Etc., for no good reason other than it was easy way to get whatever I wanted at the time.

I pretty well deserved a punch in the mouth, if not worse, and am damn glad I got a sense of personal responsibility in the process.

[progressivebydesign]

119. I was beaten with a thick leather belt as a child.

The welts went away, but the pain stays forever. Children should not be hit or beaten, ever. All it does is make you angry and feel powerless.

[sepia_steel]

143. So was I.

And my brother and I got much more than welts from it. I will never forgive that. And I will NEVER punish my kids when I am angry - because that's called retaliation, not punishment. That is the biggest mistake you can make.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

8. WWJHWAS

Who would Jesus Hit With A Switch

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. That's Dobsons' problem - beaten about the head too much as a kid

The man is a fool.

[tsuki]

34. Wrong. He is a psychologist who uses his profession to manipulate

people into giving him vast sums of money by tailoring his message to what they want to hear. We once called them Con Men; now we call them fundamentalist men of god.

[TheCowsCameHome]

42. Dobson is still brain damaged in some way no matter how you look at it.

[Richard D]

10. Child abuse.

Pure and simple. Should be put in jail for that.

[tanyev]

11. She needs to call Supernanny, not Dobson.

Jo would have that young man straightened up in no time. And without any hitting.

[XanaDUer]

12. Outlawing abortion will stop a toddler from

throwing a temper tantrum? These great conservative minds never cease to amaze me.

[MountainLaurel]

13. Who else wants to find this young mother

And go at her with a "switch" for a couple hours?

:grr:

[Vanje]

20. Poor woman

Her husband probably beats her with a switch.....in the love of Christ, of course, as a strong and loving leader of a househiold should!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. Ain't that the truth. n/t

[Nobody]

21. She was duped, and the kid is paying for it

And when he grows up we will all pay for it.

Cut the head off the snake, not its tail. "Doctor" Dobson needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He is advocating child abuse and that is far worse than one parent beating one child. With his authority he is responsible for a huge number of children being abused.

Was he abused as a child? Was he squelched? Break the cycle here and now.

Did you know that anyone sent to prison for crimes involving abuse of minors is at the very bottom of the prison pecking order and they get routinely assaulted? Sex offenders are a favorite target. This is because a huge number of inmates are themselves victims of child abuse and many were sexually abused. This is their turn to get revenge.

[knitter4democracy]

99. I want to give her a hug and a break from the kid for awhile.

She's admittedly overwhelmed and too close to the breaking point. She needs a good medical eval (certain hormonal meds or imbalances can result in rage--personal experience talking, here) and a good break.

Her three year old is doing what three year olds do, but she doesn't seem to have the support system to handle it. Instead of attacking her, let's admit that she's tried to be a good mom (her church and friends probably all recommend that sadist's line of books and say they worked for them) and is having trouble.

It's not like there isn't a single parent who hasn't seen the line--maybe not crossed it but seen it and been scared.

[bunkerbuster1]

124. Me too. As for Dobson...

well, what I'm thinking I'd like to do to him isn't very Christlike.

[knitter4democracy]

137. Same here.

That man frustrates me to no end. He's such a Pharisee. :eyes:

[Divernan]

15. Re the 3 yr. old throwing fit in Wal Mart? Keep the brat home!

I am sooooo fed up with and angered by the number of young children who shrilly and loudly scream at the very top of their lungs - in the grocery store, at just about any shopping venue, and especially in all levels of restaurants. I don't blame the kids - they obviously have been conditioned that their parents will respond only to pitching fits. And they shouldn't be taken out to dinner at 7 or 8 at night - long after the time child psychologists point out that kids' internal clocks have them ready to be fed.

There are various solutions:
(1)punish the child by isolating them in their rooms - with no TV of course; (2) immediately remove them from any public setting and don't take them back there again;


(3) only get them take out food from restaurants. A friend has mentioned the effectiveness of cutting vocal chords - but I realize that would be wrong.
And although I don't primarily blame the kids, as long as their parents are AWOL on this matter, I have thought of another response.
I would also just love it if the next time I'm in a decent restaurant trying to have a peaceful and relaxing meal, and some little monster starts screaming, (and this is almost always without tears, mind you - so there's no possibility that the kid is REALLY upset) , that every adult in the place, waiters, customers and all would turn around and scream back at the kid, at the top of their lungs to SHUT UP! Well that's my vent. WWJD, Dr. Dobson? And yes, I do have kids - 3 - all well-adjusted adults now, and I simple taught them that we have "inside" (quiet) voices and "outside" (i.e, playing outside) voices.

[sallyseven]

62. My children never set foot in a store

until they were 12 years old. Then only to purchase equipment and clothing for their various sports activities. I did eventually teach them how to shop for food and to cook. Kids do not belong in stores they beg and whine too much. They think they should have everything that is on sale there. You could save about 20 bucks a week on stuff you don't need.

[Telly Savalas]

90. What the fuck?

I take my kid to the store all the time and she doesn't beg and whine. Call me a crazy radical, but I think that such trips are a critical part of her socialization.

[melv]

75. Gotta disagree here

I have a 3 year old and we can take him anywhere. If he starts throwing a fit, as 3 year olds do, I take him to the restroom or other private spot to talk to him and work it out. If that doesn't work, we leave. We rarely have problems in restaurants.

Getting take out food only from restuarants seems a little over the top.

Children are people too, and have the same right to be in a restaurant as you do. They are paying customers. Granted, the parents have to make sure they behave themselves. If they do not, its go time. I wouldn't dream of imposing a screaming 3 year old on a restaurant full of people. Again, the judgement is not on the KIDS. It's the PARENTS.

It's the parents, no the kids, who shouldn't be allowed in. On my own children, we don't spank (or cut vocal cords for crying out loud). We talk, give consequences and follow through. Works like a charm.

[Bridget Burke]

79. I don't have kids...

But have noticed that many can do well in restaurants. I spend much more time in casual and/or ethnic places than in hushed temples of fine cuisine. So a little childish chatter is no problem.

Some adults just ignore loud tantrams or kids leaving their seats & running around. In these cases, it's the parents who annoy me!

[shrike]

80. That's great

I love parents like you. And if a 3-year-old can behave in that kind of situation, great. I remember the little African-American girl, stuffed toy in her arms, probably five years old, who was a perfect angel on a flight to Atlanta. I made a point of telling her dad (who waw by himself) what a beautiful child he had, and he just beamed.

HOWEVER, too often I see the opposite. I don't want to make this a kid bashing post -- I like kids -- but too many of them are out of control in the wrong situations. If they're in their yard horsing around, that's one thing. But I recall sitting in a very nice restaurant, and watching two adults with five kids between them. Those kids did not stop screaming the entire meal. And I'm not kidding. The louder they got, the louder the adults had to talk, so it got to be a madhouse in there. We should have left, but we'd already ordered. The moms and dads -- the moms, especially -- had big grins on their faces, as if to say "oh, well."

I don't have kids of my own, but I've been around them enough to know that sometimes a little one is too crabby, too tired, too overstimulated, etc., to remain still and be quiet. (Like movie theaters; don't get me started on people who bring toddlers to R-rated movies and expect them to sit quietly for two-and-a-half hours) You must be a good parent, since you know when they can be settled down and when they're at the end of their ropes.

[knitter4democracy]

103. She probably can't keep him at home.

A three year old cannot be kept at home alone, and she probably has to get all the grocery shopping done in order for them to have food to eat. She doesn't have the luxury of keeping him at home and then getting all her errands done easily--probably dreams of it, though, just like every other mom I know. ;)

When my kids throw fits, they get told what the consequences will be and one last chance. If they blow that, we leave, pure and simple. If I have to carry them out one under each arm, we leave. I will not put up with that kind of behavior, and I have the option to shop another day. I make sure to keep enough of the basics on hand at all times to still have dinner just in case I don't make it through the store. Of course, that means that I have enough money to get all the food I need during any given trip. She might not be in that good a situation.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

16. Yes, if those gays don't marry,

no more three-year-olds will throw temper tantrums.

Once again, we are seeing the brilliant minds of conservatives.

That's the shittiest logic I've heard in a while.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

18. Focus on Your Own Damn Family

That's my bumber sticker and I live in "Focus on the Familyland". Want to hear something scary? Colorado Springs is simply the most beautiful place I've ever lived, we have Pike's Peak, The Garden of the Gods (I'm waiting for the fundies to start objecting to that name), The Royal Gorge, and Seven Falls--All simply gorgeous. What's the second most visited site here? Focus on the Family and their compound. ::puke::

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. LOL! I LOVE THAT! n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. Great one.

[Telly Savalas]

91. Hilarious.

By the way my brother and his wife went for their honeymoon in the Colorado Springs area and loved it. (No trips to the Dobson Compound though.)

[LibertyLover]

133. Visiting Dobson World

This past summer we attended a family wedding in Colorado and turned it into the summer vacation. We drove down from Denver to Manitou Springs/Colorado Springs twice because of the wonderful scenery. Garden of the Gods is one of the most amazing places I've visited. Pike's Peak was great, even if I did get a bit altitude sick. Each time we drove the interstate and passed the sign for Dobson World I jokingly said to my husband that we should go visit, because we'd be their worst nightmare - practicing pagans and liberals who vote for Democratic candidates. But my husband refused saying that we had to think about the places we took our 3 year old daughter - he didn't want her to be scarred for life because of that place.

[demnan]

22. Maybe she should stop feeding him junk food

Some of the junk cereals they intice kids with are bound to make them edgy and cranky. I think that's why you see so many bad mannered kids.

Feed the child some whole grains, veggies and proteins for a change, will ya?

[MountainLaurel]

26. Not just "junk food"

Pretty much anything with artificial preservatives or dyes or high-fructose corn syrup, which includes most foods that masquerade as health food, like fruit and grain bars, will cause behavioral changes in children.

[China_cat]

54. Maybe she should stop taking him to WalMart

he may be a future union organizer and is upset with her for shopping there.

[madrchsod]

23. geez... everyone knows ya either use

a big leather strap or a big paddle with holes drilled tru it on three year olds! a switch? hell that`s what ya use on babies!

[frogmarch]

37. James Dobson: Dog Abuser

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/DobsonsDog.html

Excerpted from Dobson's book, The Strong-Willed Child

I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie (Dobson's dog, named after Sigmund Freud) obey is to threaten him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me "reason" with Mr. Freud.

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt. I am embarrassed by the memory of the entire scene. Inch by inch I moved him toward the family room and his bed. As a final desperate maneuver, Siggie backed into the corner for one last snarling stand. I eventually got him to bed, only because I outweighed him 200 to 12!

But this is not a book about the discipline of dogs; there is an important moral to my story that is highly relevant to the world of children. Just as surely as a dog will occasionally challenge the authority of his leaders, so will a little child -- only more so. (emphasis Dobson's)

[SlavesandBulldozers]

44. this was my favorite part

"with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt"

that is one amazing dog, wielding a belt - good thing it didn't get ahold of a bar stool because he may have turned that fight around.

[atommom]

47. Next time I'll hand that doggy the barstool myself!

[Splatter Phoenix]

85. This reminds me of that story...

About the man who was beating up his goat to teach it to be an attack animal, and one day it turned on him and killed him.

I love that story. More people like that need to suffer the consequences of their god damned abuse.

[leeroysphitz]

28. This woman hasn't read Dr. Dobson's books

or she would already have tried showering with her as previously suggested by Dr. Dobson as a wonder cure for small children.

We don't want the looneys taking over. (whoops too late!)

[Zynx]

38. In Dobson's world, the father would shower with the kid.

Not only that, he is supposed to emphasize his own penis to his son to supposedly keep him straight.

[leeroysphitz]

43. Not that I'm a violent man but

I could think of a couple of different appendages that I would like to "emphasize" to the end of Dr. Dobson's nose...

[Kailassa]

125. And guess what little Johnny grabs to save himself when he slips? n/t

[gratuitous]

29. I spank, and spank, and spank; perhaps more spanking is the answer?

Thank Godde that social worker was there to assist with the vital information that "Dr." Dobson doesn't take calls. No, he just writes useless and damaging books, then you're on your own, tough shit if his stupid advice doesn't work, but maybe you'd like to make a little donation?

:wtf:

[melody]

30. That's child abuse

The woman should be hunted down and have her child removed from her custody for the child's protection.

[MountainLaurel]

36. That's what surprised me

The woman mentioned in the article is a social worker.

[marbuc]

32. Sounds like a good ol' fashioned exorcism is in order

because this poor child has the spirit of Satan in 'im.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

45. that was my first thought too.

definitely a demon possession. If exorcism doesn't work only two things you can do at that point, either get the entire village to come and stone him or (if the village is unwilling) take him to the highest mountain and sacrifice him to Yahweh.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. My mom the ex-kindergarten teacher has said that

when parents have an out-of-control preschooler, despite claiming to be "strict" (assuming that the child has no undiagnosed neurological problems, of course), it's usually because they're inconsistent.

That is, they let the child run wild, even bother other people, until THEY can't take it. Then they start screaming and hitting.

The child grows up believing that there are no consistent standards and that you can get away with anything as long as no one catches you.

The way to break the cycle is to decide on a few basic rules and enforce them every time, no exceptions, even if it's a tremendous amount of work.

(My mom maintains that too many parents simply give in to their children's tantrums because it's easier in the short term and seems like too much effort to do anything else.)

[cmd]

59. This retired Kdg. teacher agrees

It's such a "joy" getting these kids in a school setting for the first time. They are easily recognized on the first day.

[mongo]

70. A big thumbs up to your post Lydia

Consistency is the essence of disipline - it really doesn't matter if you use spanking or a time-out style.

That and letting your kids get some attention when they are being good. Too many kids act out because that is the only way to get their parents to pay any attention to them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. True, that's one thing that comes up on Supernanny--

the parents don't know how to enjoy their children's company and brush them off when they try to interact.

[shrike]

82. My stepdaughter, Mother Extraordinaire

Says that in order to be a parent, you have to be smarter than the kid.

[Kailassa]

127. and that's not always as easy as it sounds. ;-) n/t

[shrike]

83. One of the nice things about my step-son-in-law

is the amount of time he spends with his boys. They sit in the easy chair with him while he watches television, follow him around when he does chores on weekends. He teaches them things, how to handle tools, how to work. His own father is a total jerk, so he must have learned how "not" to be a dad during his own childhood.

[shrike]

81. I remember a lovely pre-school teacher

telling me how parents would bring their children to class and say, "Can you control them? I can't."

The little guys don't come with an instruction manual, and certain segments of our society seem to think parenting comes "naturally." I remember reading a poignant statement by a young woman who became a mother at 14. She had no idea what to do; how to change a diaper, put the baby to sleep, etc. Everyone seemed to assume she just "knew" these things, even her own mom. She felt like such a terrible person, she said.

[midnight armadillo]

112. Oh, it's definitely easier

(My mom maintains that too many parents simply give in to their children's
tantrums because it's easier in the short term and seems like too much
effort to do anything else.)


I'm the father of a 2 year old boy who's very strong-willed and smart. You know, a perfect candidate for repeated beatings in Dobson's fucked up world.

I must say, some of the tantrums he's capable of are pretty astounding. I've observed that letting him be upset for a few moments before offering hugs & kisses goes a long way towards ending tantrums very quickly - he doesn't know how to express anger and frustration any other way. He hasn't had a long drawn out tantrum in a long time, and if he does it's because he's tired, or hungry, or sick, or maybe all three!

It would definitely be easier to give in, it's a lot of work to sooth and distract. I will admit he's gotten his way on a few things, like falling into our routine of him eating his morning & bedtime yogurt while watching 'Peep and the Big Wide World' on PBS. Oh, well, first thing in the AM and night is when we're too tired to resist sometimes!

[gkhouston]

134. this is very true

and I've even told my daughter as she occasionally pleads with me to restore some taken-away privilege that I can't; I've made up my mind and can't afford to change it. If she doesn't learn that bad behavior has bad consequences, she'll be a miserable person when she grows up and make everyone else around her miserable.

Years ago, my nephew told my sister, "You're a mean mommy!" He clearly thought he was wounding her deeply, but she shot right back, "that's right. I had a mean, mommy, too, so I know how to do it right." Stopped him right in his tracks. I'm looking forward to using that retort on my little complainer... ;-)

[hedgehog]

39. Walmart overloads a three year old's sensory apparatus

Take a look at the young'uns in a grocery store. They usually lose it in the last few aisles or at the check out. Too many bright colors, too many smells, too much noise, too many people. It's got very little to do with parenting and a lot to do with a modern culture that's just too much for us.

[atommom]

51. That's very true. Some kids are just more sensitive to the stimulation

than others, and it's best not to put them in situations they can't handle.

[knitter4democracy]

106. Right on!

I've been saying for years that my kids just get overwhelmed, like their circuits just can't handle all of the stimulation.

I know I feel that way, too, on many days. I can't even keep the music or radio on most days anymore with everything going on in the background. It helps to have a quieter house.

[WildClarySage]

122. Hell, I can't handle walmart's sensory overload and I'm an adult!

[fortyfeetunder]

41. Dobson tried his spanking method on a dog

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/DobsonsDog.html


"When I told Sigmund to leave his warm seat and go to bed, he flattened his ears and slowly turned his head toward me. He deliberately braced himself by placing one paw on the edge of the furry lid, then hunched his shoulders, raised his lips to reveal the molars on both sides, and uttered his most threatening growl. That was Siggie's way of saying. "Get lost!"

"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me "reason" with Mr. Freud."

I wish I had been the dog, I would have had some warm nuts for a bedtime snack....

[progressivebydesign]

120. Dog beater Dobson, and kitten killer Frist. Lovely couple. n/t

[rawtribe]

46. Let all play by the rules.

Deuteronomy

21:18
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
21:22
And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
21:23
His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

[rockymountaindem]

48. Just let me ask, what's a switch?

I've never heard about a "switch" in this context.

[OrlandoGator]

52. A thin, flexible tree branch. nt

[raccoon]

63. Are you a foreigner or is your native language something other

than English?

I don't mean any offense, but I was flabberghasted by your post.

[rockymountaindem]

67. Uh, no...

I guess since my parents never felt the need to beat the crap out of me when I was little, I haven't been familiar with the word in this context. I'm sorry child abuse is more commonplace where you come from.

[raccoon]

74. I think a lot of it is a generational thing, too.

Somebody said in DU not long ago that nowadays parents are generally more lenient and less authoritarian than they used to be. That's certainly been my observation too.

[Gormy Cuss]

86. "Switch" is a regional term.

When I was a kid and heard people say that on TV it confused me too, and that was back when spanking was far more common than it is today. In my area it was called "the stick."

[raccoon]

88. Thank you, Gormy.

Reminds me of when I was in grammer school (AKA grade school) reading a math problem about "roasting ears." Another one about "carfare." Living in a small Southern town, neither term was familiar to me.

[Ladyhawk]

49. My fundy father used a belt on me and I wasn't even a problem child.

In fact, I was the exact opposite. I was the quintessential "good girl." I had to be to keep from being hit as often.

Did it affect me? Hell, yes! I can't even begin to count the ways it has affected me.

I can't believe anyone still gets away with advocating this kind of "discipline." Very sad.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Here ya go:

[sakabatou]

58. How about reading up on other books

Not ones made by Dr. "Evil" Dobson.

[cynatnite]

60. We had a few switches when we were kids...

Never at three freaking years old :eyes:

When I had my own kids, switches have never been used. This mother is so naive and ignorant it's sickening.

At least I can say my kids have never been disclipline problems in public places. They know if they do act up, we drop whatever we're doing and leave. Once home, they get grounded or something like that.

She needs to know that disciplining children doesn't mean an automatic spanking and I don't think she does.

[DanCa]

61. I was spanked with the bristley end of a horse brush -

does anyone want to protest outside of dobson's building.

[Ladyhawk]

123. Me and my belted backside would be there with you if it were feasible. n/t

[Quixote1818]

64. My sister followed Dobson's teachings and her son is all messed up now

He lashes out constantly, he is inconsiderate, he threatens her with violence and he as been kicked out of several schools. He is 14 now and 6' 3".

Dobson was probably abused as a child and all he knows is spanking and being tough with kids for discipline.

Dobson is doing so much damage to this country and yet he blames things like gay marriage for our problems???

[knitter4democracy]

107. Same with my BIL

My in-laws used Dobson like the Bible, and their younger son was a majorly messed up kid. Dobson himself told my MIL that, when BIL was three, they would have nothing but trouble from BIL--apparently that idiot learned nothing of self-fulfilling prophecy in any of his sociology and psychology classes. :eyes:

BIL's better now but still has trouble interacting with the rest of the family (avoids everyone). All that damage in the name of Christian parenting. *sigh*

[newspeak]

65. okay, being a parent of three children now grown

some children tend to throw fits, especially in public places, between the ages of eighteen months and three years old. It's normal!!!!! Do you want your children to be stepford children. My daughter was very independent from the time she was born. A little manipulator, too. you ignore them when they are throwing a tantrum and leave wherever you are. If you can't leave, hopefully have someone with you that can take them somewhere privately. My son, who was a very good natured child only threw one tantrum at grandparents house while we weren't there, granddad put him in a cold shower for a minute, (shock therapy) put him right out of the tantrum. when my daughter was four and all three children were with us at a restaurant, the waitress came over and said she had never seen such well behaved children. I took the children always shopping and admit bribed them for being good. I'd tell them if you don't ask for anything and behave in the store, at the end of shopping I'll give you a surprise. It always worked. children are just children and it seems our society is trying to make them into the enemy! They are not ours, they are individuals who we are given the gift of nurturing until they stand on their own.

[shrike]

97. You're right about kids that age

Don't have kids of my own, but I come from a big family and so have experience in that regard.

My beef is that sometimes parents themselves expect little ones to behave in a way that is impossible for them at their age. Like the people who bring toddlers to grown-up movies and expect them to sit quietly for two hours while mom and dad watch the show. I don't get mad at the kids in that situation -- too much to expect from a 2-year-old. And very unfair.

Then there was the restaurant situation where two couples sat with their five kids for what seemed like hours, and the kids screamed, and the adults talked over the kids. This was a fairly intimate, and nice, restaurant. I think the management should have said something, but no one did. Funny thing was, there were a few other couples there, small kids in tow, and these kids looked as upset about the screaming as everyone else.

BTW, my mom and dad never used the reward system: they just let us know how "in trouble" we'd be if we didn't behave. Different era.

[midnight armadillo]

114. For all the talk of family values

It always worked. children are just
children and it seems our society is trying to make them into the
enemy! They are not ours, they are individuals who we are given the
gift of nurturing until they stand on their own.


I've learned in the last two years that the US is an intensely anti-family society. It barely supports childrearing and parenting in anything but the least sort of way.

I don't mean the public schools, but rather the way children are viewed (as you say) as things to be controlled, as purchasing agents to be marketed to, lack of support for parenting at workplaces, complete lack of daycare & preschool standards, professionalism, and support (my wife stays home, thank goodness or we'd go bankrupt trying to afford daycare). And actually, the public schools are treated as a burden by much of the US and teachers are blamed for all the ills of society...

[TrogL]

140. I get that all the time

Many times when I took my unruly brood out in public, people would come up to me to tell me how good my kids were and ask how I did it. Many of these people reeked "Christian".

I never really had a good answer for them other than "I don't spank them or outrageously yell at them and I don't let them do the 'I want/gimme' thing - ever".

In hindsight, the real answer is that I wouldn't bring them into a situation they coudn't handle.

Many kids throwing tantrums in supermarkets have been pushed over the edge. They're either tired or (especially with Aspies) over-socialized, or they can't handle the fluorescent lights (like my partner - he refuses to go in my favourite big box store).

[ailsagirl]

66. Isn't beating a child considered... child abuse??

Or does it depend on the state you live in?

:shrug:

[MountainLaurel]

95. Depends I think

In some states, it's a matter of whether the child is bruised. In others, it's probably considered child abuse if you DON'T hit your kid.

[deadparrot]

68. Poor baby. No wonder he's got issues.

That's really disgusting.

[Ilsa]

69. I am so sad that people are so stupid about their kids and how

to treat them. Maybe we'll get lucky and a social worker will take the child away for being whipped with a switch and the mother will have to go through parenting classes.

[Initech]

71. Anyone who follows Quack Dr. Dobson's advice...

Should be spanked with a switch themselves!

[NNN0LHI]

73. Gosh I love living in Jesusland n/t

[crankybubba]

77. living

in jesusland is like living in taliban afganistan. but without the whimsy. (;))

[KittyWampus]

78. Small Wonder Dobson Fundies Are So Full Of Hatred & Fear

they're taught to fear not just others who are different but their parents.

[Splatter Phoenix]

84. Flame Away.

But this is why I feel religion is a moral corruption.


At least the way these dumb motherfuckers practice it.

[Telly Savalas]

101. Nobody here will argue with you that the way these

"dumb motherfuckers" (as you aptly describe them) practice religion is morally bankrupt. But it's been pointed out in pretty much every religion flame war in the last 6 months that those folks don't have a monopoly on the way that religion is practiced, and that in fact there are numerous legitimately compassionate religious groups (e.g. Quakers, Unitarians, etc.). Why are you willfully choosing to ignore this often repeated observation?

[mod mom]

87. My children are 7 and 9 and have never been hit. They are very well

behaved polite children. When my son was in the terrible twos, throwing temper tantrums I used a method where I would sit him on my lap and confine his movement until he calmed down. We called this process discipline, and while my son definitely did not like it, he quickly learned it could be avoided by changing his actions. I can't remember which book I read this approach. The amount of time I had to use it was short lived.

After the terrible twos, I adopted an approach called 1-2-3 magic, which my friends all also use as well. I never make it to three anymore because by 2 they know there will be consequences (loss of priviledges). I wish pediatricians would teach these type of non-abusive methods of child rearing. It really disturbs me to hear the advocation of physical abuse.

[raccoon]

89. That sounds like a good approach.

I think most of the time, spanking is NOT about anything the child did, but about Mama's PMS, Daddy's being laid off, Mama's or Daddy's hangover. In other words, about the parent's anger, not what the child did.

[Mutley]

92. People don't realize that you can reason with kids that small.

When my 3 year old nephew throws a fit I calmly talk him down until he relaxes. Screaming, threatening, and beating only work the kid up even more and virtually ensures that their tantrum will get worse before it gets better.

[Telly Savalas]

96. This article just confirms that Bush is only a symptom...

not the disease. So long as millions of Americans are willing to accept the teachings of a sadist like Dobson, there will be people to represent them in government.

[MountainLaurel]

110. Yep

:applause:

[SunDrop23]

98. Well sure, everyone knows beating the hell out of a kid works wonders...

[Arkana]

108. Using a switch on your 3-year-old??????

That's not discipline, that's abuse, and she should be in fucking jail right now.

[Not_Giving_Up]

113. My parents were big on Dobson

Back in the days of records, they bought me one to listen to of him talking to a group of kids about how they should behave. I was regularly black and blue, but never where the school would find it, unless I showed them on purpose.

I have an ADHD/Aspie/ODD child. Matter of fact, he just spent six days in the hospital. We spank him sometimes, but he never has a mark on him when it's over. He's been in therapy for years, he's on meds, and we're doing what we can for him. My parents think he needs church, that will straighten him out. I tend to disagree.

[knitter4democracy]

138. Wow.

That's a hard road for you, and your parents don't sound very understanding. Church would be bad, as then others would feel free to "help" you parent your child and be even less understanding.

Abuse is very common in churches. It's just kept a secret until someone blows it wide open. I'm so sorry you went through that growing up. You did nothing to deserve anything like that. {{{{Hugs}}}}

[Roland99]

117. Out-of-Focus on the Family

What a fucking asshole. May God (if there is one) strike Dobson with a switch.

[Joanne98]

118. The Japanese don't spank their children till age seven....

And they're well behaved. Dr. Dobson just wants people to spank their children because HE'S A PERVERT!

[CornField]

121. A woman I once knew switched her infant

according to Dr. Dobson's plan. Spare the rod, spoil the child you know.

It took everything within my being not to drive across the country and steal that child. Even when I think of it now, I just want to cry. How is taking a switch to an infant (under the age of 1) supposed to be loving parenting?

[WildClarySage]

126. It isn't appropriate under any plan. That is the kind of thing Children's

Services needs to hear about so they can investigate.

[CornField]

128. You'll be surprised to know

I phoned the DHS office near the woman and reported her. I was told there was nothing they could do -- that people had a right to raise their children within a chosen religious upbringing, regardless if secular society found it "cruel" sounding.

So, there's the answer for would-be child abusers. If you must hit, do so in the name of all that is holy.

[Blue_Tires]

129. wow...i didn't know people still used switches

lol...i had an old-school grandmother that actually made me go outside to pick out my own switch for whippings....bad memories

[ContraBass Black]

131. If you have to resort to a switch, you're finished as a parent.

The child is running the show.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. I have a strong willed connure

time outs work for the bird, I have heard they also work for kids... maybe somebody should clue this woman in

Oh and the switch, CPS I can hear it, and correctly too

[HughBeaumont]

135. Dobson needs to be drop kicked in the neck.

Advocating child abuse is beyond the pale and Dobson should be shut down and prosecuted, not given book deals and national prominence. My wife's a "takeaway lady", sees Dobson-esque stupidity like this happen all the time and it never results in anything positive. Bullshit such as this . . . well, let's just say it weighs less on her conscience to take a kid out of this kind of a home and place him or her in a loving environment. Beating a kid is never the answer.

[Tiggeroshii]

144. Holy shit I thought this was a joke

Fuck these people. This one evangelical church a friend once attended shared that members were told to take a switch to church so that it could be blessed before it's used on the kid. Sick sick sick sick si-:puke: