Tentative reply to about a hundred die-hard freepbots. Suggestions?

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I recieved an email today, along with about 100 others, chanting for the "under God" phrase in the "Pledge of Allegiance." It was complete with big pics of the flag and an "83% believe (I actually thought it was higher???), and a to hell with the "gucci faggs" who want to take God out of everything.

At first, I was going to let it pass. Who was I kidding?

Below is what was sent, followed by my tentative reply.

What think ye?

THEM:
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I was asked to send this on if I agree or delete if I don't. What do you think about this?

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit down and BE QUIET!

If you agree, pass this on, if not delete.
I AGREE!!!!

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ME:
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You know, with so much real damage being done to our nation and her people by mullah W and the gang, and with the absolute disaster that is his administration - under investigation after investigation - for crimes bordering on treason (as if lying the nation into a war that has killed tens of thousands needlessly isn’t crime enough), I’m a little surprised to see this old issue come up now.

Being that it has, though, I would like to add a line or two to the "love it or leave it" sing-a-long you all seem to be having, if you don’t mind.

You see, this great nation to which that allegiance is pledged, for which that flag stands, holds as highly as any ideal that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law (government). All of us are equal, no one favored over the other, in the eyes of our government. No one is "second class." You are no more important, have no more rights, than me or him or her or them. We are equals. I’m assuming that’s something we can kind of agree on. I shouldn’t have special rights over you, should I (in the eyes of the government)? No arguments there, right?

Our freedoms stem from that basic acknowledgment. One of those freedoms is freedom of religion. A person’s faith/belief does not (?) and should not (!) limit or enhance that person’s rights, because we are all equal, in the eyes of the law, and we all have a right to our personal beliefs. No argument there either, I hope.

Well, it would flat out fly in the face of those ideals, in the face of the ideals upon which our nation was founded, for the US government to sanction, compel, coerce, or force a religious ideology onto its FREE people, CHOOSING for every one of us religious beliefs. That’s why a FORCED allegiance, a forced belief, to a God (or THE God, or whatever) is just wrong. OUR government has no business identifying or forcing a recognition of any supreme being. It is contrary to freedom.

Teach what you will at home, preach what you will at church, operate as many radio and tv stations as you can sustain. But don’t force my kid to proclaim ANY belief. You tread on his/her and my rights when you do.

Does the American flag stand for freedom or for Christ? If you say Christ, then let’s replace the stars with the cross. Let’s be open about it. Are we a theocracy or a democracy? Have you ever even wondered?

No I fall on the side of this particular situation in defense of freedom, not blind righteousness and false piety.

Here, I’ll put it in terms you’ll understand - NO ONE SHOULD BE COERCED BY THE US GOVERNMENT INTO PROCLAIMING FAITH IN ANY GOD.

I won’t tell you easily-led lambs to sit down and shut up, but I will say this - If you want to live in a country run by religion, move the hell to Iran.

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[mcctatas]

1. Very nice reply, well thought out and written...

that being said, why waste your time on a bunch of mouth-breathers? A simple "I will pray for your misguided souls and for that of your corrupt leadership...later tonite when I sacrifice a goat to Baal":evilgrin:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

3. ROFLMAO

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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9. Thanks, and LOL!

This has been an ongoing thing with me and this group, that's why I reply.

They have stopped the bush praise-a-thon, tho. I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.

[electropop]

15. perfect, except chop out the words 'bordering on."

:evilgrin:

[deadparrot]

2. "Under God" wasn't even part of the original pledge.

They added it during the Red Scare to show that we were better than the godless commies.

[Tunkamerica]

11. And wasn't the In God We Trust bit...

on money kind of a joke after we went off the gold standard? We really were putting blind faith in the value of the currency at that point.

[patrice]

4. Tell them some of us have already decided to never say

the "pledge" again anyway, and they are blasphemers, and the Bible warns against swearing oaths, especially to MAMMON, their Slave Master.

Tell them to go out their doors and find someone who needs Help and help them.

[greekspeak]

5. That should tear them away from their reality TV for 5 minutes

Good!

[NNN0LHI]

6. (Insert very loud aplause in this space/) n/t

[cry baby]

7. That is terrific, SI!

I would just mention that the freedom we have is not only freedom of religion, it is freedom from religion which I think is your whole point in your email.

[tabasco]

8. Tell 'em to go join the Army to pad their resumes.

www.goarmy.com

I've lost patience with these assholes.

[July]

10. Well said!

Wish I had your eloquence.

You are very clear. If they don't get it, they're "morans."

[mzteris]

12. excellent!! n/t

[spuddonna]

13. I think it's awesome!

Here's some other notes you can use, or not! I like your reply the way it is, but in case you get 'rebuttals' other than 'u r a fagg', here's some more facts:

It was a socialist Baptist minister, Francis Bellamy, that wrote the original pledge.

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Now, if a Baptist minister didn't think to include 'under God' in the pledge he wrote, why do they need to? Also, here's the original salute that went with the pledge:


Also, the movement to get the words 'under God' into the pledge came from the Roman Catholic Knights of Columbus. My understanding was the Knights of Columbus were worried about 'flag and nation worship', so they wanted the USA to show subordination to their worship of God...

[electropop]

16. Sieg HEIL!

yikes. :scared:

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20. wow. I'm going to use that.

thanks.

that pic - woah.

[Gyre]

14. Tell 'em you'll see them in hell!

:evilgrin:

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. I ran into one of these a while back and responded as well. I am glad

you took it on too. (Mine wasn't about the pledge but really it all came down to the same thing.)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/1281.html

[gumby]

18. Nicely said, er written.

It makes me very sad to see the Stupid Pledge reduce so many adults to the level of children.

I pretty much think that these senseless issues are purposely used as psy-ops to keep this country in a permanently infantile stage and therefore more easily manipulated. The hoo-haw over The Pledge seems self evident of this premise.

[Redstone]

19. Very well said, but what makes you think those assholes

will listen to reason? I've never met one of them who would, and I bet you haven't either.

but I genuinely do understand how you felt when you wrote that; sometimes you just have to get it out of your system even if you know it won't do any good.

Don't give up.

Redstone

[MADem]

22. Yeah, far better to sign them up for porn sites, seeing as you have their

email addresses. They'll probably like it, and it will keep their hands busy, so they won't be sending out bullshit mass emails about the pledge!!

[Redstone]

23. Oh, I like that. I like it a lot.

If I ever get that kind of RW crap in my email, I'll be sure to remember your advice. And I'll have a damned big grin on my face while I'm doing it.

Redstone

[MADem]

24. A bit mean of me, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures

And really, when you think about it, it WILL keep their dull little minds busy, eh?

[smoogatz]

21. America may be a nation of Christians

but it's NOT a Christian nation. Its founding document is the Constitution, not the Bible. The Founding Fathers--most of whom were deists, not Christians in the modern sense--chose not to mention God, Jesus Christ, Christianity or the Bible anywhere in the Constitution. That ought to tell us something about where they stood--if they'd wanted to make America a Christian nation, they'd have written Christianity into the Constitution as the state religion. Instead, they did the opposite--the first amendment expressly forbids congress from establishing an official American religion. Oh, and that "In God We Trust" thing on the money? Republican (and devout Christian) President Teddy Roosevelt wanted to remove the motto from U.S. currency because he believed it to be sacrilegious.

[yankeedem]

25. I'm tired of freepbot emails

and I don't even get any any more.

My response to the next one will be two words.

"Blow me."

Simple and to the point. And reply all, of course.
I refuse to cast pearls before swine and dignify this mouthbreather crap any more.

[Roland99]

26. Hear! Hear!

Well said.

[dretceterini]

27. I would tell them to

FO and D, or just FO

[Martin Eden]

28. That's the best argument I've read; Here's my suggestions:

Drop the first two paragraphs, and begin your reply with "This great nation to which that allegiance is pledged ..."

And change your last sentence to something like: "I won't tell you to sit down and BE QUIET because I have too much respect for freedom of speech, but I will say this -- if you want to live in a country run by religion, then move to Iran."

I make these suggestions because your argument is so soundly based on the freedoms on which this country was founded that it might actually persuade a few people -- if you don't begin it by calling Bush a treasonous mullah and conclude it by insulting the reader as an "easily-led lamb." It's the difference between trying to reason with someone and firing a salvo at them.

I don't know the potential recipients of your email, but I would wager that not all of them are completely brainwashed bushbots. If we're ever to change the disastrous course our country has taken, we're going to have to persuade a lot of people who have been misinformed and misguided. It is much easier, and temporarily gratifying, to contemptuously dismiss them as enemies. But that will only ensure that they remain our enemies, and that we will remain deeply divided -- which is what our REAL, MUTUAL ENEMIES want.

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29. Dammit. You're right, aren't you?

I tried to conain myself, to make each jab as compact and potent as I could, but I think you might just be right. It is an opportunity, tho I have tried to reason with this bunch before, its an opportunity to connect and imact, if only to some minor extent.

I'm gonna use that pic from post 13 tho, and ask them "is this what you want?" along with the history of that phrase in the pledge.

Good suggestions all.

[Martin Eden]

30. No, I'm left.

(left of the DNC, anyway)

The pic from post 13 might be persuasive if you provide the historical context and don't leave the impression that you're equating the pledge with fascism. Even though a case can be made that the pledge IS actually a form of indoctrination compatable with fascist tendencies, such an argument would immediately alienate 90% of those who don't already agree with you.

I've spent countless hours in online political forums trying to reason with freeper-types, but found myself eventually responding to their bile with contemptuous assaults of my own. However, personal emails among friends, relatives, casual aquaintances, or even contacts with 6 degrees of separation have SOME potential for persuasion. On most levels, we're not all that different from a lot of people who voted for Bush. Communicating with someone you know (or who knows someone you know) is different than waging a war of words in an anonymous forum. Sure, there will be some freepers. But if we are consistently logical, factual, reasonably polite, and refrain from hyperbole, we will be credible and persuasive. Some minds cannot be changed, but some can ... one at a time.

[Make7]

31. Who would Jesus tell to Sit down and BE QUIET?

I could not help but think of a comparison after reading this anonymous email in your post:

I was asked to send this on if I agree or delete if I don't. What do you think about this?

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit down and BE QUIET!

If you agree, pass this on, if not delete.
I AGREE!!!!

The black population of this country is approximately 14% of the total population.

Should we just tell that 14% to Sit down and BE QUIET? Have they no say in any issue because they only represent 14% of the total?

Who would Jesus tell to Sit down and BE QUIET?

-Make7