I Sincerely Wish the South Would Stop Defending the Indefensible

[McCamy Taylor]

I am 100% Born and Bred south of the Mason-Dixon line, and I absolutely despise the many institutionalized -isms we have down here. Racism, sexism, anti-semitism, you name it, we have it. And for every dyed in the wool cross burning KKKer, there are a half a dozen people who would never ever openly say a bigoted word about anyone, but oh me oh my, how they hate to have the lovely people of the south criticized for something that happens all over the country and "We are so nice to each other, always asking about Aunt So-and-so's rheumatism and baking pies for funerals, not like those nasty people up north who wont give you the time of day, and why, our brother-in-law just hired the nicest african-american girl to answer his telephones and she is so well spoken, so how can anyone suggest that we are anything less than gentleman and ladies, descended from the Cavaliers of England when that nasty Cromwell chopped off the King's head. And if we owned slaves, it was only because the poor dears couldn't take care of themselves, and we would have freed them as soon as they were ready for it, yes we would, cross our hearts. All the money that our ancestors were raking in from those cotton plantations did not mean a THING to us. We just ran them to provide work for our slaves and money for our less fortunate kin. That's why W. is president. Because he wants to take care of us. Yes sirree. You want to know why Tysen has separate wash rooms and break rooms for White and Black employees in its Alabama plant? Why, I am sure it is the Negroes who asked for it, so they could play their Hip Hop music. Yes, indeed, we take such good care of our blacks."

The South is full of some really sucky people who are in serious denial.

[Burried News]

1. So many lies - makes it seem only natural to love a man like Bush.

He's just so 'comfortable' to be with.
Summertime and the living is easy, fish are jumpin and the water is fine - as long as you don't have to pick that bale, toat that barge.

[Trajan]

2. The only difference between the 'North' and the 'South' ...

are a few percentage points ....

Gross bashing of the 'south' is ugly, mean and fallacious ....

What precisely IS the 'South' ? .... a person ? ... a place ? .. a thing ? ... a philosophy ? ... a mindset ? ... a food ? .... a book ? ...............

Is it a universally held worldview you object to? ... or a subset of thinking of which only a few participate ? ...

As a "Northerner" born and bred in NYC's neighborhoods: I see this as meaningless, ignorant bashing of a land region ....

PLACES arent the problem: bad ideas are ....

[readmoreoften]

7. As a queer who had to live in the Smoky Mountains for a week

because the transmission fell out of my car. Let me tell you: there is a hearty fucking difference between the North and the rural south. Two different worlds-- ENTIRELY.

We had to call the Tennesee Highway Patrol to rescue us and when the officer finally found us, he took a step backwards and said "WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE ARE YOU???

We were travelers in need and we thought he was going to arrest us.

[Trajan]

9. We call this anecdotal evidence ....

A very scary story, to be sure ....

BUT: I can assure you; there are some scary places up North too ....

You cannot take your limited, specific view, and expand it into a general, universal view .... I forget which fallacy this is .... But it is one ....

[Fescue4u]

14. What exactly offended him so much?

Clearly his behavior was offensive, but what I don't get is that gays are just normal people. Theres really no way to tell based on appearances.

Unless you were making out in front of him or something (which Im sure you werent), it sounds like he really just jumped to some wrong conclusions based on god knows what?

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. I can tell you precisely what the "South" is. I've traveled all over it

for years and dealt with thousands of the EXACT kind of people the OP'r is referring to.
You asked

"What precisely IS the 'South' ? .... a person ? ... a place ? .. a thing ? ... a philosophy ? ... a mindset ? ...

Is it a universally held worldview ? ... or a subset of thinking ? ..."

Well....it is all of those and more, but most CERTAINLY some of those. There are hundreds of thousands of decent, hardworking, kind people that, in their heart of hearts are described perfectly by the original post's caricature and it is that, a caricature. But an accurate one. There are small towns in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, North and South Carolina and Georgia where the overwhelming mindset is that "Lee surrendered, I didn't" and while they would gladly and cheerfully pass you another helping of a delicious fruit cobbler with one hand, discreetly reinforce every stereotype you have ever heard about redneck southerners with the other.

It IS a mindset, many places, to some degree a philosophy and yes, it is a subset of thinking. One that is handed down, no doubt (No one is born a bigot or a racist) but is often applauded by others of the same mindset by methods as seemingly minor and simple as a confederate flag in the bottom corner of the back window of the pickup truck to as drastic as a town where the black neighborhood is LITERALLY on "The other side of the tracks" and you would be hard pressed to find a person of color living anywhere else in town.

Now don't get me wrong. Not ALL people that live in southern states think, feel or act "that way". Not by a long stretch. Many millions have moved forward intellectually and culturally over the last 100 years and by the same token, the same kind of thinking can be found all over. Atlanta (Along with may other major southern cities) has a thriving African American white collar population (If i may be permitted to use such a term) so much so that 60 minutes saw fit to do a piece on it. But i am telling you, if you do as much traveling in the deep south as i have over the last 18 years (And i am talking OFF the interstates, away from the big cities) you would find that i am not wrong, that the mindset is common and not as shunned as one might think it should be.

You said
"As a "Northerner" born and bred in NYC's neighborhood: I see this as meaningless, ignorant bashing of a land region ....

PLACES aren't the problem: bad ideas are ...."

I agree, bad ideas ARE the problem. But the bad ideas you are referring to, while perhaps not unique to the deep south, most certainly are not dying off and seem to have an extraordinarily fertile bed in which to sustain their lives there.

You may feel it is "meaningless bashing" but it is NOT ignorant. Like it or not, it is an accurate observation of a particular mindset that thrives in that particular "land region".

[havocmom]

18. All those bad things/bigotry are VERY prevelant where I live

which is closer to Canada than to Wyoming.

Place-ism is almost as bad as the more commonly recognized bigotries we address here.

I knew LOTS of bigots growing up in California, the metro LA area. I have seen them up north and at the Mexican border.

Ignorance, sadly, is not a local issue.

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. Havocmom, I don't disagree with you...Ignorance is certainly not local....

But the gist of the original post, it seems to me speaks to what perhaps could be referred to as a cultural mindset that is distinctly southern.

I have been an Over-the Road trucker since 1987 and have driven all over this country. You and the poster i responded to are correct in saying that these "Things" (Bigotry, ignorance, racism, intolerance and anything else said or inferred) are not unique to the south. But you just don't find it in the numbers and concentration elsewhere that you do in the deep south east. There just isn't the history of it. That history began with slavery and, quite frankly, many of the types of folks we are talking about, if pressed, would admit that to them, slavery really wasn't all that bad.

[tnlefty]

20. Thank you and well said. Sometimes I don't think that people in

other areas (where racism and bigotry also occur) realize what an uphill battle progressives and/or democrats have in the south. I don't always view this as "bashing" the south, but I do think that it is beneficial for people to try to come to terms with the fact that whatever progress I thought was being made when I was coming of age here in the late 60's and 70's has slipped away. It isn't all southerners, by the way. We've had a tremendous influx of folks from other states into my area in the last 2 decades and they are bigots, and they seem to encourage the worst behaviors. It's almost as if racism has become "fashionable". I never thought that my kids would be experiencing virulent bigotry as I thought a lot of progress had been made in my teenage years, but here we are and they are experiencing worse things in school than I can remember encountering.

[readmoreoften]

3. Way I see it.

I lived in the urban South for 6 years (Austin) and the non-urban south scares the shit out of me. The major urban areas of the south shouldn't be lumped in. They are largely black, hispanic, and asian. Problem is, most of the south isn't urban.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. I have seen things and heard attitudes that make my skin crawl. nt.

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Agree. Urban is way better than rural. I wouldnt like in rural.

[QC]

4. Well, I sincerely wish that people wouldn't post the same tired flamebait

over and over and over, day in and day out, but as my great-grandmother used to say, "Wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first."

[Trajan]

8. Even as I post as above ...

I gotta disagree with your characterization ....

Please: do us a favor: count the exact number of 'south bashing' threads ... and then count the TOTAL number of threads on all of the forums .... Then divide the number of bashing threads by the number of total threads, and multiply by 100 ....

Come back with the number; your empirical evidence to prove your assertion, and then we can talk ....

[WritingIsMyReligion]

5. This topic is getting REALLY

stale....

REALLY. ;) ;)

[lynne]

10. I was so relieved to see this thread -

- because I know that all must be wonderfully right with the rest of the world if it is once again time to begin the South bashing.

[Fescue4u]

11. Who exactly is "the south"

Id let to write them a letter and ask them to stop defending the indefensible. Whats their address?

Or were you just stereotyping about how some people unfairly stereotype?

[bhunt70]

12. This is ridiculous bullshit and divisive.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. No. it is true. We need to organize bus trips to show the nation

what is going on down here. Did not you guys read about the Gretna La bridge? That isnt isolated stuff. That is life in the suburban and rural South. People are dying in rural East Texas, and nothing is happening to their murderers because the victims are Black, the perps are White and the DOJ under Bush does not want to antagonize the Base.

Progress was being made until Bush/Rove took over. Now, they seemed determined to revive all the hatred and fear and ugliness that should have died long ago in the South in order to create a Republican voting base of working class whites who will vote against their economic self interest.

Havnt you been listening to the plans to purify the reconstructed areas of the Gulf? The racial cleansing that is underway?

And so many people just shrug their shoulders and say "There is racism all over the country" as if that tired old GOP excuse "They all do it" justifies the institutionalized racism of the South.

I think a lot of so called Democrats are just too lazy to care. You are willing to write off Southern States as "Red states" and let them treat their citizens however they like.

[Tomee450]

17. I couldn't agree more.

Some people are in denial about how really racist much of the south really is.

[Skittles]

19. as someone who has lived in Texas almost 30 years

I absolutely agree; I also find that often it is just plain nosiness that is often confused with "being friendly" in small-town America.