You think the wingnuts aren't exploiting the bird flu fear? Read this shit

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9782.shtml

Most In-depth, Conservative, Honest News & Commentary

AVIAN FLU COULD KILL A BILLION

By J. Grant Swank, Jr.
MichNews.com
Oct 6, 2005


"We must remain on the offensive against new threats to public health, such as the Avian influenza," US President George W. Bush said in his speech to world leaders at the United Nations Summit in New York. "If left unchallenged, the virus could become the first pandemic of the 21st century."

"If we had a significant worldwide epidemic of this particular avian flu, the H5N1 virus, and it hit the United States and the world, because it would be everywhere at once, I think we would see outcomes that would be virtually impossible to imagine," warns Dr. Irwin Redlener, director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health.

Avian flu could cause a billion humans to die globally, according to ABC News. That is why this week the Bush administration set in motion stockpiling $100 million worth of medicines. However, the vaccine is still in the experimental stage. snip

Mr. Bush highlighted his personal concern in his address at the news conference this week. He cautioned that he did not mean to be overly alarming; but the message given was that America may have an extremely serious problem in the near future — a health problem that could get way out of control.

[brainshrub]

1. The way Bush is planning to deal with a pandemic:

Call the marines.

I wish I just made that up.

[cwydro]

2. They are completely pushing this...

just keep the American public terrified of the boogey man and they won't notice that he is actually the one in charge....

[Flying Dream Blues]

3. Anyone notice that war and Katrina deaths are understated,

while the potential deaths from the Avian Flu are growing exponentially, almost daily? The last I heard, it was "only" 150,000,000. Now, a solid BILLION!! What's next...several "Brazilians?"LOL) Time to put up our plastic sheets and duct tape??

The energizer Bush*it keeps going, and going, and going.

[stevedeshazer]

4. Total BS, I agree

All terror and fear all the time, that's *Bushco.

[converted_democrat]

5. Plus I heard them say on CNN that they are trying to put a clause in

the contract for the vaccines that they (drug companies) can not be sued for any "side effects" the vaccines may have. And that "if" they do produce the vaccine the U.S. government has to pay for all excess vaccine that is not used. this comes on top of the news that the CDC is "locking up" all data on the Avian Flu, so the company that they "partnered" with won't lose money. They don't want a company besides their "partners" to make any money off of this.

on edit- Link about the CDC locking up the info vital to making a vaccine.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/1005/03natcdc.html

[clydefrand]

6. I've heard others whom I wouldn't think are wingnuts talk

about the threat of a pandemic. It is real. Half the people who have had this flu have died, whereas in 1918 only a small percentage, less than 10%, of the people who had the flu died.

But Bush wants to quarantine everybody who has it. Sure you can. That means everyone would have to stay at home for a year or so, right?

[NNN0LHI]

7. 50% sounds like a lot. How many people total have died from bird flu...

...since the outbreak began several years ago? And another thing why you guys always bring up the 1918 pandemic? Don't you like the other ones we have had as well or something?

1918-1919 (Spanish Flu pandemic)------ 500,000 dead in US

1928----------------------------------------- Alexander Fleming Discovers Penicillin

1957-1958 (Asian Flu pandemic)--------- 60,000 dead in US

1968-1969 (Hong Kong Flu pandemic)--- 40,000 dead in US

Don

[mcscajun]

11. The 1918 pandemic gets brought up for two reasons...

One, it killed an estimated 25 to 50 Million people worldwide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Influenza_Pandemic

Two, "The influenza outbreak of 1918 was the largest of the three flu pandemics of the 20th century. A separate study in the journal Nature reveals that the 1918 virus was in effect an avian flu virus that had jumped the species barrier into humans."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article317481.ece

[NNN0LHI]

15. Can't ignore major advances in medicine since the 1918 pandemic

http://lhncbc.nlm.nih.gov/apdb/phsHistory/health_news.html

1957-1958: The 1957-1958 flu epidemic originated in February, 1957, in Kweichow province of China. The new strain, H2N2, spread from China into the rest of Asia, the Middle East and Europe, reaching the Americas in June.

Advances in scientific technology meant that the virus was quickly identified and a vaccine was available by August of 1957. Although the disease hit young people and children especially hard, the elderly suffered the highest death rates from the disease. Influenza peaked in the United States between September and December, with a second wave emerging in January and February.

The excess death figure for the United States was approximately 70,000.

1968-1969: In 1968, a new flu strain, H3N2, originated in Guangdong Provence in Southern China. The first indication of the problem came when a rise in respiratory illness was noted in Hong Kong and then reported in the press in mid-July. The outbreak had a significant impact on Hong Kong, infecting fifteen percent of the city.

Despite the city's smaller size and more limited contact with outside regions, the disease quickly spread around the world. Overall, the spread followed a similar pattern to that of the 1957-1958 flu pandemic. Beyond Asia, the epidemics were more circumscribed as worldwide dissemination of the virus occurred over the year. High excess mortality was really observed only in the US.

The excess death figure for the US was about 28,000 which put it lower than the flu toll in 1957-1958. This lower death rate probably occurred because the Hong Kong strain had only a surface antigenic shift from pre-existing A-strains. As a result, the epidemic may have been somewhat blunted by partial pre-existing immunity.

[mcscajun]

16. Nobody ignores major advances in medicine.

Recall last year's shortage of flu vaccine? Ready for this year's near-repeat?

See my post below about the WHO's ignorance of major medical advances.

[mcscajun]

8. BushCo never found a fear they wouldn't (or couldn't) exploit.

It's like flies to shit.

There's also a generous helping of CYA in that mention.

The threat of avian flu turning into a pandemic is, unfortunately, quite real.

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Security&loid=8.0.213996080&par=0

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=31362

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article317481.ece

[NNN0LHI]

9. Sure we may have a pandemic. I have survived two of them. No sweat

1918-1919 (Spanish Flu pandemic)------ 500,000 dead in US

1928----------------------------------------- Alexander Fleming Discovers Penicillin

1957-1958 (Asian Flu pandemic)--------- 60,000 dead in US

1968-1969 (Hong Kong Flu pandemic)--- 40,000 dead in US

[mcscajun]

12. I survived the last two, also. 25 to 50 Million people didn't survive the

1918 one. One of my uncles didn't. In some places in the world, entire small communities were wiped out. The only place where no outbreak was recorded was a community at the mouth of Amazon in Brazil.

I don't take this lightly, even if Bush is exploiting it.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Shame antibiotics weren't available for secondary infections in 1918

Especially knowing most of the fatalities in 1918 were due to secondary infections rather than the flu. Glad we had antibiotics for the last two pandemics though. That may be what kept the number of deaths so low during the past to avian flu pandemics. I am surprised people don't bring that up too often. Seems kind of pertinent.

Don

[mcscajun]

14. The last two major strikes of influenza you cited earlier

were not (at least not yet proven) avian flu types.

Those viruses were not bird flu viruses but instead were human flu viruses that picked up a few genetic elements of bird flu.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/health/06flu.html

And the World Health Organization has already taken antibiotics into account in their predictive modeling:

If an influenza pandemic appears, we could expect the following:
* Given the high level of global traffic, the pandemic virus may spread rapidly, leaving little or no time to prepare.
* Vaccines, antiviral agents and antibiotics to treat secondary infections will be in short supply and will be unequally distributed. It will take several months before any vaccine becomes available.
* Medical facilities will be overwhelmed.
* Widespread illness may result in sudden and potentially significant shortages of personnel to provide essential community services.
* The effect of influenza on individual communities will be relatively prolonged when compared to other natural disasters, as it is expected that outbreaks will reoccur.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic/en/#virus

This is why Bush is covering his ass now. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand just because Bush is screaming like Chicken Little.

[buzzsaw_23]

18. The Three Leading Causes of Death

Hunger
Poverty
War

With Old Age coming in fourth.

focused on the ball

“Nobody's free until everybody's free.”

“What was the point of being scared? The only thing they could do to me was kill me and it seemed like they'd been trying to do that a little bit at a time ever since I could remember.”

“Sometimes it seem like to tell the truth today is to run the risk of being killed. But if I fall, I'll fall five feet four inches forward in the fight for freedom. I'm not backing off.”

-Fannie Lou Hamer

[NNN0LHI]

19. This says both pandemics involved the genes from avian influenza virus

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/pandemics.htm

<snip>Both the 1957-58 and 1968-69 pandemics were caused by viruses containing a combination of genes from a human influenza virus and an avian influenza virus. The origin of the 1918-19 pandemic virus is not clear.

[mcscajun]

21. All that says about the '57 and '68 pandemics is the same thing

I quoted in my previous post, just in different phrasing.

"Those viruses were not bird flu viruses but instead were human flu viruses that picked up a few genetic elements of bird flu."

If the CDC wants to dismiss this year's latest scientific findings on the 1918 pandemic, let it be on their heads.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Isn't the combination of genes from a human influenza virus and...

and an avian influenza virus what can cause a pandemic? Isn't that what we are supposed to be worried about happening? Aren't all the preparations we are supposed to be taking for in case that were to happen?

Don

[mcscajun]

23. Nope...we're worryed about mutation that causes the flu to jump species.

Close, but not exactly the same thing.

The 1918 flu virus was wholly derived from a virus that originally infected birds and jumped species. The viruses that caused the pandemics of '57 and '68 were caused when human and avian flu viruses infected the same person at the same time. This allowed their genes to combine.

It's a subtle but important difference.

For your sake, for my sake, and the sake of those around the world, I think we can both hope that the 1918 "species jump" doesn't happen this time around.

I'm going to bed now. :) Let's just agree to disagree on this.

[NNN0LHI]

35. Well let me ask you something then

If we ever have another pandemic is there some way to predict whether the next flu pandemic will mimic the 1918 pandemic rather than the 1957 or 1968 pandemics?

Don

[mcscajun]

36. That's the whole point, isn't it?

Guarantee an outbreak will mimic 1918, no. You want guarantees, there are none either way.

Predict that an outbreak would mimic 1918, yes. The predictive models so far indicate that if this strain rises to pandemic level, we'll be looking at something more like 1918 than 1957 or 1968. No one will have immunity to it, existing flu vaccines will not prevent infection, and Tamiflu (ordinarily used to ameliorate symptoms and shorten the span of a bout of influenza) is being partially discounted for those who contract the avian flu. The H5N1 strain is showing resistance to Tamiflu. There's some talk about using Relenza, another antiviral that's shown some efficacy against H5N1.

The other problems are an increase in flu drug-resistance in general, plus the rise of many antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria.

All that is exactly the concern driving the WHO's concern and that of responsible governments around the world. Of the 100 people who have contracted avian flu in the past two years, 64 have died. That's an incredible mortality rate. If the pandemic hits, the WHO is talking about possible death figures of between 5 million and 150 million people. Concern shown by * is another matter; as usual, George "arrives late for the party and shits on the dining room table"; in this case, by using the Avian flu scare for one of his "be afraid, ber very afraid...and only I can save you" speeches.

Someone else in the last day or so talked about Bush being the little boy who cried 'wolf'; and they're right. While he's been busy scaring those he can, those of us he can't scare have been growing more and more cynical about what comes out of his mouth, to the point that even if he managed one day to state an absolute truth that we already knew to be true, we'd have to check with our sources before we'd truly accept it. This is the ultimate danger of the man. (I use the term "man" loosely, and with apologies to male humans everywhere.)

On edit: correct word usage (resistant/resistance)

[NNN0LHI]

37. You hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't follow Bush to the bathroom

I don't think too many people would at this stage. I can't believe he talks people into dying in Iraq for Halliburton? It truly amazes me. Thanks for the info. It was much appreciated.

Don

[mcscajun]

38. "I wouldn't follow Bush to the bathroom."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now that I've stopped laughing, there's an image I can do without: Bush at a urinal. Fortunately, being female, I'll never have to see it "in the flesh". Ugh.

[eShirl]

31. "knowing most of the fatalities in 1918 were due to secondary infections"

do you have a link for that please

[NNN0LHI]

33. Here is a link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6315717/site/newsweek/%20

<snip>The 1918 flu—variant H1N1—spread with terrifying speed; in six days at a single Army base, Barry writes, the hospital census went from 610 to more than 4,000. It killed with devastating swiftness: pedestrians literally collapsed in the street; people woke up healthy and were dead by nightfall. It attacked multiple organs in the body, but always the respiratory system first, laying waste to the defenses by which the body keeps pathogens out of the lungs. Most victims succumbed to a secondary infection of bacterial pneumonia, for which there was no treatment in 1918. But in other cases, the virus was fatal in itself. Multiplying explosively throughout the respiratory tract, it provoked an immune response so furious that it devastated the lung's delicate tissues. And it was those deaths that explained H1N1's unique terror. Influenza typically kills the very young and the old, whose immune systems are too weak to fight it off, but Spanish flu killed young men and women in the prime of life.

[spanone]

10. And for 2 days CNN became the bird flu network / now back to terror

The old bait & switch. This administration is evil in it's ability to drive the news agenda.

But KKKarl has been all over the tube tonight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. the B number has been floated as the absolute and I mean

absolute worst case scenario from the Word Health Organization... but I repeat this is the absolute worst case, where EVERTHING fails... they just did what our people at FEMA have not done, worst cased it

[NNN0LHI]

20. I bet its ten billion next week if Rove is indicted n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. yes but that is not the WHO... that will be karl

;-)

I used to work in EMS and in disasters and planning for the absolute worst case and wargaming it, is standard...

[wisteria]

24. This is their strategy, they raise the Pres. numbers on fear,

and in this case, it is done for the fear effect and to show that Bush is on top of this situation unlike katrina and the Flu shortage last year.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

25. The avian virus is a real threat unfortunately Bush is using it to foment

fear... but the World Health Organization has been concerned about this possible threat for some time now. I have been following these developments for about a year now and friends in the medical field say that the possibility of the virus mutating and infecting humans is REAL.

The problem is that Bush and Co. have used so many fear mongering tactics since 9/11 that many of us on the left are just assuming it's another of his stunts to prop up falling poll numbers.

But trust me - this avian virus DOES have the potential to wreak havoc on humankind and the best thing the Dems can do is INSIST on spending the bucks to perfect a SAFE vaccine because unfortunately there is not enough Tamiflu to go around.

[artemisia1]

26. They may be exploiting the fear, as it is in their nature to do so, but

the threat is real. Very real. Remember all the DU threads about this over the past year? It's a very real possibility.

[wakemewhenitsover]

28. I predict special Fox telecast of Hitchcock's "The Birds"...

...on the night of Rove's indictment.

[DemBones DemBones]

29. The bad news is that it may be true that

avian flu will be "the big one," the pandemic that epidemiologists have predicted for years, and that there's hardly anything we can do about it.

What we can do that will help: get a flu shot if you're in an "at risk" group, as I am; wash your hands often; avoid crowds as much as possible during flu season; wear a mask when you have to go out.

But never forget this eternal truth: None of us is getting out of here alive.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. They can only scare you if

you haven't yet realized that none of us is getting out of here alive.

[EFerrari]

32. You can't rule a people via fear forever.

At some point, your victims will turn on you.

Watch. :)

[chat_noir]

34. bird flu site - international coverage

http://www.sars.com.sg/birdflu/bfindex.php


(Showing only the latest 400 items]

http://www.sars.com.sg/birdflu/bfnews.php