Yes. I am now convinced that the draft is coming very soon

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.ctnow.com/news/custom/newsat3/la-fg-army16jul16002426,0,6069552.story?coll=hc-headlines-newsat3

For U.S. Soldiers in Iraq, Long Haul Grows Longer

<snip>Their exhausted outfit, the 3rd Infantry's 2nd Brigade, will have completed a full year in the Persian Gulf in September. Tens of thousands more U.S. soldiers are expected to face equally long deployments. The U.S. Central Command is expected to announce as soon as next week that deployments to Iraq will now last a year, military officials said on condition of anonymity.

<snip>Griping by soldiers is as old as warfare itself, but military officials say longer stays for soldiers such as Outen and Lynes, whose brigade stormed Baghdad in early April and played a major role in toppling Saddam Hussein's regime, are a symptom of an Army that is stretched too thin. At a time when Pentagon strategists are considering cuts in the overall size of the Army, a broad range of soldiers — from senior brass in Washington to ground-pounding GIs in Fallouja — think that the Army should instead be growing to take on the expanding tasks the Bush administration has handed it.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that retention rates are already beginning to suffer in the face of the grueling Iraq duty, Army officials said on condition of anonymity.

There simply aren't enough soldiers for the job as it is, Army insiders argue.

<snip>The office of Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.) says it has fielded hundreds of calls and letters from angry families at Ft. Stewart, Ga., which is the headquarters of the 3rd Infantry Division. Other lawmakers have expressed similar concerns.

Military experts said that such significant numbers of soldiers or entire units have not been asked to serve in combat for such an extended period of time since the Vietnam War.

"For major combat units, this is clearly the longest sustained combat deployment since Vietnam," said Michael O'Hanlon, a defense analyst at the Brookings Institution.

more

[searchingforlight]

1. No one has questioned the inequity of the draft up to this point

but now is the time to bring in the ACLU. No drafting of males until all age equal females have been registered and have just as much chance of being called. Barbara and Jenna?

[Loonman]

2. Crap

A month ago, I still thought re-instatement of the draft is hooey, but now I'm not so sure.

[redeye]

3. Canada, here I come...

...and if it refuses to grant me asylum, then I'm pretty sure France will not.

[Trek234]

12. Canada may be a bad idea

They have an agreement with the US to extradite any US citizens escaping the draft should it be used again. Rather or not they will actually adhere to that agreement who knows... Mexico was also petitioned the same, but as far as I know they have not agreed to anything.

Europe has VERY difficult immigration laws that are largely anti-immigrant and they are only getting worse. For example, in a few months the UK is going to require entry clearance for all US nationals. (previously this was only required of nations such as Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.)

The EU is VERY annoyed with asylum seekers and many EU nations are taking steps against them. Mostly they don't want to deal with them because it is costly, and some such as (again) the UK feel they are being treated unfairly because they may have to deal with more than another EU nation. This is not to say they won't grant you asylum, but just make sure you research the nation you will go to first...

[David__77]

18. Conservative-enacted law?

I think in the 80's when the Conservatives led Canada is when that law was enacted. I'm fairly confident (though don't count on it!) that Canada would welcome draft resisters if need be. It would be quite popular among the Canadian people...

[Kellanved]

13. Nope - Sry

As most European nations have a draft (France reduced it to one day), they all have an agreement with the US to hinder youths from slipping away.

[redeye]

15. Only for citizens, AFAIK...

...I'm not going to apply for citizenship anywhere there is a draft. And besides, the only two nations I'm even considering are Britain that doesn't conscript and France that only requires high-school kids to do one day with the army.

[Trek234]

16. Not true

Can't speak for all EU nations - but under EU law and/or the respective law of the EU nations there ARE provisions for people escaping a draft - even if that EU nation has a draft. (keep in mind the EU version if a "draft" is VERY different than what other nations versions are - in Germany for example you could very likely be painting buildings or working at a hospital - where as in your nations draft you would be blowing people up most of the time AGAINST international law)

The EU courts will hear your case and decide rather or not to grant asylum based on your particular situation and the situation of your home nation no matter what. You even have the right to appeals. This will trump ANY agreement with the US that is not superior law. As far as I know NO EU nation has official laws and/or a treaty to that effect with the United States.

[Kellanved]

19. not entirely

1. In Germany you can choose civil service instead of military service. The German constitution says, that you can't be forced to do military duty.

2. I know for a fact, that the German MP (or someone they send) will collect youths trying to avoid the draft, even in the US - and AFAIR it's the same the other way round .

[JVS]

32. What about asylum?

Aren't all Asylbewerber entitled to have their case decided by a court? You could be rejected, but the process would take years, thus using up the time in which you could be drafted. Or not?

[JVS]

31. Oops

Never mind

[Mari333]

4. This "war" is more and more unpopular

a Draft would be the nail in the coffin and the BFEE knows it..they cant do it, the people would not allow it...if they do, they shoot their chance of winning in 2004 and they KNOW it

[NNN0LHI]

6. The other choice is leaving Iraq now and admitting we were wrong

That would also shoot their chances of winning in 2004.

Don

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. There's a third option.

Pretend that it's all part of the liberation process, fudge the death toll, and say we're making progress.

If there is a draft instituted, there is no way that it happens before the election.

[gratuitous]

11. I tend to agree

I don't think the Republicans want to be the party that brings back the draft, especially over something as picayune as Iraq. I also don't think they'll pull out of Iraq because these yahoos are congenitally incapable of admitting mistakes, misjudgments or miscalculations of any kind. So what will happen is that the troops that are there now will stay there for month after month, watching comrades get picked off, or "accidented", or just go bull-goose crazy, and the Bush Administration won't give a flying fig. After all, very few of them have any personal experience in combat, and they think everyone sits around all day in air-conditioned offices with reporters breathlessly waiting to transcribe their every utterance while they figure out how to spend an additional $75,000 from the latest tax cut.

[EAMcClure]

23. There are limits

If the sons and daughters (do not forget--husbands and wives) are out there month after month, there will be noise, there will be lawsuits, and there will be a draft.

Iraq is not picayune, any more than Viet Nam was picayune. I would like to see you define picayune in the context of Iraq. It wasn't picayune enough to dedicate half our warm bodies there, and it wasn't picayune enough to blow our entire Tomohawk and cruise missile load upon their capital so as to visit them with the "spirit of YHVH" (shock n' awe).

To be so jejune as to render Iraq not worthy of the draft indicates a blind spot in your thinking. The Bush administration could very well use the lack of turnaround to institute a draft. The media outlets would actually see it as a solution. Further, if the job market continues to do a war time tank (unthinkable until idiotboy), it will be seen as a handout in disguise, a kind of sick patriotic charity.

No soldier can mentally survive live combat, especially guerilla combat, for over a year without flipping out in terrible ways. At this point, most army kids will be there that long and longer at a stretch. No real housing, less and less equipment, and a more and more hostile population. The draft will happen if the Iraq war stays this course.

[JewelDigger]

5. No way the US should throw more good people at the Bushco mess!

I think it's really ridiculous to even CONSIDER throwing more good people (through a draft) into a totally outrageous, ill-conceived, poorly executed endeavor. The whole foundation of which is based on a series of lies! THAT's what we need to keep focused on (as well as how does the US extricate itself from this bushco mess).

[northernsoul]

7. GOP Win in 2004 = Draft

I think that the manpower and logistic pressures created by Imperial policy will require conscription to be sustained, but that those with overtly Imperial intentions realize that they cannot proceed with such an action until they've secured a political victory in 2004 as it will surely be an unpopular move.

I think they're going to continue stringing our men and women out until they know they've got the elections wrapped up, and then they're going to start inducting left and right.

This is why it is imperative that we give all available effort, and then some to making sure that there is no GOP victory in 2004 - the life you save might be your own.

[TheDonkey]

8. no way will there be a draft

Unless Bush want's to leave even sooner he won't dare mention the word draft (not even beer).

Not only would armed force morale plummet even more, the cost of the war would skyrocket, and the public outcry would be tremendous. There are only a 150,000 troops in Iraq, I'm sure their are many more in the reserves (waiting to be used by Bush for political gain).

I wouldn't worry about a draft as that would seal Bush's fate of being the worst president (and most hated) ever.

[northernsoul]

10. that's why they'll hold off until they see how 2004 goes

They're going to be forced to do it within a few years, but I think they'll wait until they've secured victory in 2004.

Which is why we need to work our tails off to make sure they don't get that victory.

[newyorican]

21. Bingo, look for draft in 2005

*After* elections.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. There already is a bill in Congress to reinstate the draft

It was intorduced by Charlie Rangel.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d108:25:./temp/~bdnkJH:@@@L&summ2=m&|/bss/d108query.html|

Fortunately, it isn't going anywhere.

[sable302]

14. I say 'Bring em On'

:eyes:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. If the Draft comes soon enough...

Shrub and Co may just join the millions of Americans who are UNEMPLOYED!!!


:)

[EAMcClure]

24. Unlike you and I

Bush can always have a job. He will quietly disappear into the Carlyle Group with Daddy and James Bakker III. You and I aren't shackled to the Pentagon.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Feels good to be a selfish bastard every now and then. :)

Not American. Citizen of a country which is not exactly aligned with the USA politically (Brazil). You allowed this disgusting excuse for a politician to get into the White House? He's YOUR problem now.

O8) But we're nice people. If you want to flee to Brazil I guarantee we'll receive you with open arms and you'll love the climate here.

[Lone_Wolf]

25. Is the draft even Constitutional?

The 13th Amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. If you are drafted to serve in the armed forces against your will, then it is a form of involuntary servitude. Has the Constitutionality of the draft ever been tested in court?

[redeye]

28. Not that I know...

...but I think that the SCOTUS will uphold the draft even though I personally think it is unconstitutional and a crime against humanity.

[LawDem]

26. Nope, no draft before 2005, no way, no how -- here's why

Ever since Bush & Co. rode into town, his "presidency" has been about one and only one thing -- reelection. That's why Karl Rove, a political consultant, has more or less been running the government since day one. These guys won't bring back the draft no matter how desperately they need more troops, at least not before Nov. 2004. Instead, they'll just keep over extending and overusing the ones they already have.

Bush's personal reading list may be limited to comic books, but those around him know (even if they don't understand) a little about history -- including the history of the Vietnam War. The draft is what brought Lyndon Johnson down. The draft is what ended the war. It's one thing to look at the awful reality of our current one-a-day death rate among U.S. troops in Iraq when it's other people's kids doing the dying. It's another thing, however, when you look at your own 17, 18 19 year old across the dinner table and think -- damn, it could be him/her. If they brought back the draft under current circumstances, the colleges would exploit, just like they did in the late 60s and early 70s.

No, no draft before 2005. No way.

[catmandu57]

27. The situation may not wait until nov 04

If things fall apart as they are now, they'll fall apart fast. Troop strength, equipment blown up, troops there losing control, how far away is an Iraq My Lai.
I don't believe the Iraqis will wait until november 04 to esculate, they want us gone yesterday. Nov 04 is sixteen months away, too much can happen, too fast.

[oasis]

29. We will be sending specialists to train Latvian, Estonian, Polish

and other members of former Soviet bloc countries in order to police and occupy our future conquests.

Also look for Mexico to supply enlistees into our armed services with many in that country eyeing the possiblity of obtaining easy U.S. citizenship.

[Lone_Wolf]

30. Here's what to look for before the draft will be instituted

A national crisis (real or manufactered) that requires troops faster than the voluntary army can provide.

Personally, I think if the draft reenacted without an event like this, then it will see dissent that will make the anti-war demonstrations during the Vietnam era look mild.