Daschle defends Bush

[imhotep]

"I would not be prepared to accept that any president, this president or any president, would deliberately mislead the American people on something as important as this," Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030715/pl_afp/us_iraq_weapons_politics_1

[CWebster]

1. what else is new

sigh...

[Woodstock]

2. STEP DOWN, DASCHLE

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

He's so proud he's working with the pResident, it's nauseating. This is why we lost the Senate in 2002 - and he should have stepped down then.

WE NEED AN OPPOSITION PARTY DEMOCRAT AS MINORITY LEADER!

[heidiho]

3. I'm Sick of Daschle defending Chimpy

Let's get a new leader in the Senate who isn't afraid of the bush Cartel.

[Woodstock]

4. Nixon knew nothing about Watergate, Reagan knew nothing about Iran Contra

And Santa Claus comes down the chimney every Christmas Eve.

[northernsoul]

5. Dash has become a liability

He's definitely been compromised. I don't know if it was the Anthrax in his mail or something more sinister, but the guy never misses a chance to go belly-up on us when we need him. He should not be in a leadership position anymore as apparently he can't eat a peach without B*sh's permission anymore.

[JI7]

6. i didn't take that as "defending" bush

it seems he is calling for an investigation into this.

[Woodstock]

7. And he had to utter that sentence in the process?

You won't see Republicans making mistakes like this.

[searchingforlight]

10. I tend to agree with you.

As the minority whip he has to appear to be the voice of reason and as if he doesn't have a political ax to grind. In the long run, he can be more effective for our side that way.

[CWebster]

11. Well you can spin it that way

as a subtle psychological suggestion, but Daschle has demonstrated overcaution to the point of capitulation when he should demonstrate greater resolve in his general diplomacy.

[ObaMania]

12. Agreed...

.. matter of fact, I see little "if he's lying then..." undertones. I think he's just keeping a low profile until there's solid proof. Then and only then will he speak out. Too many of the things he does or says backfires on him. I don't blame him for wanting to be PC in his statement. Any misstep and the press would be all over him. It would be the lead story on the whore shows tonite.

JMO

[Terwilliger]

23. OH WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE....Daschle is soft-pedalling Bush

trying to see which way the fucking wind blows

I hope it blows right up his ass. STEP DOWN, TRAITOR!!!!

[jcgadfly]

26. But that statement

indicates he's already come to his conclusion.

I guess "standing with the President" is more important than standing up for the country.

[ShaneGR]

8. You took it OUT OF CONTEXT

The leader of Senate Democrats was more measured in his tone, even while alluding to the gravity of the issue.


"I would not be prepared to accept that any president, this president or any president, would deliberately mislead the American people on something as important as this," Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota said, reprising Democrats' calls for a more expansive investigation.


"I think before we face the real prospect of lost credibility abroad and here at home, I think it's critical that we clarify and make sure everyone understands what is fact and what is not."

[CWebster]

16. Considering the context

was in contrast to previous bolder comments made by other Democrats.

[underpants]

17. I agree-it was weak but it wasn't defending W

Daschle should just shut up right now anyway and let the dogs hunt.

[mlawson]

128. Ding, ding, ding!!! You got it right!

If any Dem can't (won't) attack GWB now, they should say NOTHING!!!! Daschle has never learned this.

[liberalnurse]

21. Yea,

He is setting the baseline standard to measure *bush's lies against. The other dem's are taking things to the next level. They are building the case. it really is a team effort.

[Cocoa]

25. "alluding to the gravity" is extremely important

One of the tactics the GOP and their whores are using is to treat this story in a "wink-wink" manner.

The whore Doyle McManus has been calling it a "summer squall" story, just something to fill up the slow news period.

The dems seem to be aware of this tactic. One TV program had a discussion b/w a DNC spokesman and an RNC spokesman. The RNC guy was laughing it up, he literally laughed at every single question, and smiled through the whole thing. The DNC guy refused to join in the hilarity, kept a sober demeanor. Appropriately so, considering the people dying every day.

The dems have to get the message out: "this is important"

[LuminousX]

59. Even in context

He is giving Bush political cover.

He should have said, "Until a full investigation of this issue has taken place, I will not speculate on the credibility of the President."

Daschle is scared to death. An attempted assassination against you has that effect, the correct desired effect. Bush has Daschle's balls in a jar on his desk.

[jiacinto]

78. The usual suspects always do that

So why does it surprise you?

[Terwilliger]

104. Carlos here hasn't said much about Bush lying

I wonder why.... :shrug:

[foo_bar]

9. he isn't really defending Bush

he's just doing his peppy "toilet training" talk. By next week he'll be highly disappointed, even dismayed.

[w13rd0]

13. Dissemble statement...

I would not be prepared to accept that any president would deliberately mislead the American people on something as important as this...

I would not accept any president that would lie to the American people on something as important as this...

I don't think he's defending Bush here yall...

But the nature of his comment, and the awkward wording, beg for misinterpretation.

[liberalnurse]

29. Right!

If you just read between the lines....He is saying he will not accept *bush because he is lying......"If the shoe fits wear it" is what he is saying directly to * bush......

Hell, I use this style of sarcasm often....

[anamandujano]

14. good one from Republican Senator John Cornyn

"The goals of security, prosperity and democracy are not advanced by partisan rancor, and I hope my colleagues join me in finding ways to rebuild Iraq for Iraqis -- and stop trying to find ways to attack our president for political gain."

[ObaMania]

18. Is this sarcasm?

I don't find it a good one at all! I think he's trying to divert the focus from chimpy and say "move on" or "get over it".

[mac56]

50. LOL! *snort*

Oh, yeah, because Republicans never do that, do they?!

(wipes tears of laughter from eyes)

[Cocoa]

15. he isn't defending Bush

He's just taking a "measured tone," as the article said.

[Stuckinthebush]

19. Daschle is a savy politician

He knows what he is doing.

He knows that Bush and members of the administration lied their asses off to get this war, and he knows that this information will come out soon.

Knowing this, Daschle is setting up Bush by saying, "I would not be prepared to accept that...this president would deliberately mislead the American people..."

Then, when Bush is shown to be a liar, Daschle can shake his head in disgust and say, "I see no other option than impeachment."

You see, this is about the office of the President of the United States and the aura surrounding that office. Dashcle wants to make it clear to the American People that he and others in Government respect that office and expect that the holder will be truthful.

Bush can then be held to this standard on which he will certainly fail, thereby giving the Dems both the "support the office of the presidency" card and the "impeach the lying bastard" card.

I know that Daschle has disappointed many of us over the past two years, but I think that he is playing this masterfully now.

[CWebster]

22. If he knew what he were doing as 'leader"

we wouldn't be in the crapper. Really, what more did the Democrats have to lose, that showing a little outrage would have jeopardized? The Junta got whatever it wanted. If Bush goes down now, it is after the fact.

[molly]

24. Exactly - he's a smart man

and not immature

[liberalnurse]

40. You have your pulse on it.

He is playing it like the "Masterful Professional." Folks are too quick to cut and bleed the other without taking time to assess the facts....

[Terwilliger]

20. ONCE AGAIN, DASCHLE FUCKS OVER THE DEMS

My question is....will Democrats be hung too?

[Rose Siding]

27. "I wouldn't accept it"

How is that a defense? It appears to mean that he wouldn't accept it.

Do you really think "I would not accept it" implies acceptance?

[jcgadfly]

31. "I wouldn't accept"="I just can't believe"

Daschle wants to have an investigation about Bush deliberately misleading the country while still believing that Bush would never deliberately mislead the country.

He's already told us how he's going to vote.

[Terwilliger]

32. Fuck implication...Daschle should be calling Bush a LIIIAAARRRR!!!!

No mealy mouth bullshit "oh nooooo...Im not ready to accept Bush could do bad things....it's just wrooooong...just wrong!!"

FUCK TOM DASCHLE!

[Cocoa]

36. FUCK CALLIING BUSH A LIAR

THE DEMS SHOULD BE CALLING FOR A FULL INVESTIGATION OF THE WMD INTELLIGENCE, WHICH IS WHAT DASCHLE IS DOING.

CALLING BUSH A LIAR WILL RESULT IN THE GOP SUCCEEDING IN PAINTING THIS ISSUE AS PARTISAN, WHICH WILL RESULT IN NO ONE LISTENING TO THE DEMS, WHICH WILL CAUSE THIS ISSUE TO DIE, WHICH WILL LET BUSH OFF THE HOOK.

THANK YOU DASCHLE FOR NOT LETTING BUSH OFF THE HOOK!!!!

:toast:

[Terwilliger]

43. You will succeed in George Bush being elected again in 2004

If he is NOT (s)elected, some other Puke will, and MAYBE you'll figure out that Dems cant be milquetoast little twits and EVER GET ANYONE TO VOTE FOR THEM!!!!!

[Blue_Roses]

56. Chill out

I agree with some of the posts above. Daschle has to play his cards right with this issue. He's not so stupid or weak to NOT SEE what is going on.

He holds his poker face. Let's just give him the benefit of the doubt here. That is the problem with trying to beat Bush in '04,---A calm response to a heated situation makes him sweat 'cause it's an unpredictable response, but spit flying and fingers pointing gives them the advantage. Haven't you noticed how Bush sweats when he talks about this? The calmer one is with him, the more he sweats. I had to live under his governorship in Texas...he can't stand a calm, intelligent, mature response to his childish ways.

We have to unite somewhere in order to beat him. Why do you think the repugs win...they build a united front, no matter how wrong they are and they are winning, at least for now.

[Terwilliger]

65. my united front is GEORGE BUSH IS A TRAITOR

I dont know what other front you could possibly be thinking of.

[Rose Siding]

46. I tend to think he'll be more effective

if he can keep himself out of a straight jacket.

Have you forgotten when Daschle demanded Bush apologize to vets for questioning their patriotism? Thousands of articles were written about that and none of them were about what Bush had done. For weeks the story was about whether Daschle should have said it or not. "Daschle has a meltdown" was a common theme in the conservative press.

The vrwc LIVES for any chance to marginalize Dems.

Right now he is negotiating with repubs, the MAJORITY, about what form the investigation of Bush will take. I shudder to think how that deal would come out if he walked in with the attitude you suggest.

[Terwilliger]

66. They're going to squash it

why don't you get that?

The Dems will capitulate. Where do you see any evidence that I'm wrong?

[ed_vadem]

120. could we wait for the roll call vote? please, on the Corzine amendment

then I will agree and yell at the Dems who vote NO

[ewagner]

86. ..try this on for size

When this is investigated the sh*t will hit the fan "big-time" (forgive me couldn't pass up the shot). Unfortunately, part of the process will be punishment of the innocent. In other words, the most forceful partisans on each side will be smeared in the process of getting all of the dirt to the surface.

What I think Daschle is doing is keeping himself in a position where he won't be one of those tarred when this thing goes down and subsequently the cleanest one left standing to profit from the changes.


What do you think?

[berry]

118. I tend to agree with you and those who say that Daschle is being

careful for good reason. Today the new WH press sec'y, McClellan, started with the "it's all just about the Dems politicizing this"--and CNN at least (haven't followed the other channels) has been running with the GOP message (UGH).

But it does seem to me that it's a shame to let the candidates, one of whom will carry our hopes into the election, be the ones to be smeared as partisan or worse. I know that maybe it does have to be them, because they are the ones with media access/attention, but some of the "safe" (not in danger of losing an election) Dems should be taking more risks, IMO. This is happening (eg., on the House floor), but it's not getting much press unless it's someone big, like Kennedy. I'm hoping that the Dems are organized enough to have divided up responsibility on who will come out in attack mode, and who will do other things to undermine Bush*.

[TEXASYANKEE]

129. If what you say is true.

If CNN and other networks are going to play this Iraq-gate as "Dems are politicizing things" then we might as well just forget the 2004 election because we're all f*cked. If the media isn't going to take seriously Bush's lies about WMD getting us into war with Iraq, it doesn't matter what Daschle or any other Congressperson does or doesn't do, says or doesn't say, we're all f*cked.

[Brian Sweat]

35. For some people,

if he is not calling for Shrub's execution, then he is defending him. Clearly, what he is saying is that it is unacceptable for the president to lie in a situation like this.

[Terwilliger]

42. Yes, and whats going to happen?

What has happened before? Enron? Kill a little official and Ken Lay can sip margaritas in Cancun while Bush answers NOT

WHERE is the fucking missing trillion dollars from the Defense Department?!?!?

WHERE are the WMD's and nuclear waeapons they said we killed tens of thousands of people for WITHOUT even nailing Saddam!?!?!

WHERE are the fucking Democrats?!?!?! "Welll *mewl* he might tell the truth *mewl* but if he doesn't *mewl* then that's ok too....don't look at me! I didnt say anything bad about Buuuuuuush!!"

:nuke:

[Old and In the Way]

87. Terwillinger...

why not expend some of your moral outrage on the Republicans? You seem to always focus your hatred on the Democratic leadership....why is that?

Wouldn't be that it's in your interests to peel more voters out of the Democratic ledger, would it?

People may not like Daschle's style, but given the hand he has to play, I think he is being the reasonable Minority Leader here. There are plenty of Democrats who can make the case against Bush without our House leadership being cast as the Tom Delay of the Democratic Party.

[Terwilliger]

88. FUCK THE REPUKES!

And fuck all the people who appease them!

[Cocoa]

and that would be...

all dems?

Including Kucinich, who declined Chris Matthews's invitation to call Bush a liar?

Is Kucinich a Bush appeaser?

[Terwilliger]

102. One of the few who isn't

at least I hope thats the case

[MUAD_DIB]

28. Is the SD Senator suffering from

Stockholm Syndrome?

He sure goes to great lenghts to support an administration that would ass ream him at the first chance of removing him from office.

I'm sure that Tom Daschel is a very nice guy. I don't think that public service is really right for him ...not at least as the Dem minority leader of the senat.

Fight for us or please step aside.

Same goes for every other Dem.

[Cocoa]

33. exactly the opposite

Daschle is calling for a complete investigation. The administration and the GOP in Congress is struggling mightily to avoid such an investigation.

Thus, Daschle is NOT supporting the admministration.

Someone here at DU accused Daschle of blocking the Sept. 11 investigations, and many DUers for some reason believed it.

The reason I think people believed that very UNTRUE claim, is this heat vs. light problem we have here. Making a HUGE DEAL about tone. It seems that people want the Dems to be constantly screaming.

[Q]

34. Is this a 'measured tone'...

...or giving Bush* an avenue of escape?

- We've heard these same 'measured tones' for three years now. It's been SO effective that Bush* is now considered 'untouchable' by both GOPers AND Democrats.

- Where is the 'message' of the loyal opposition? It's hidden in the DLC's basement.

[Bandit]

30. It's called cover your ass

All politicians know this instinctively.

[Skittles]

37. YOU F***ING DUMBASS DASCHLE

HE STOLE THE ELECTION FOR CHRISSAKES; PULL YOUR G.D. HEAD OUT.

[Sagan]

38. after reading it in context, I see what he's trying to do.. BUT..

He could have said things a lot better.

Such as:

"It's difficult to believe that this President would intentionally mislead the American people, but the evidence is thus far pointing that way. That's why we need an investigation..."

[Terwilliger]

39. he could have called Bush a liar

and what he's trying to do is have it both ways like Democrats are always wont to do

Maybe Democrats could actually follow Kennedy and Hart, and call the man a LLLLIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Cocoa]

41. Did Kennedy call Bush a liar?

I saw him on C-Span yesterday, and I remember a more measured tone than that.

In fact, he seemed to be shifting the focus to the effort to getting help from the UN and NATO in Iraq.

I even thought that possibly this is one way that the Dems will leverage Bush's weakened position. Bush seems to be set against going to the UN and NATO, but he may be forced to do so, thanks to his reduced credibility.

So, the Dems are siezing an opportunity to get something accomplished that will save lives in Iraq. Similar to how they siezed on the corporate scandals to get campaign finance through.

So, screaming and calling names has its place in politics, but actually accomplishing things has a place too.

[Q]

44. But...nothing of import came from the 'corporate scandal'...

...'investigations' except butt covering. The main players (like Ken Lay) came out of it unscathed.

- And then you assume that the investigation into Bush's* WMD/Iraq lies will go anywhere. Past performance suggests there will be yet one more coverup. You won't be told the nasty details for reasons of 'national security'.

[Cocoa]

48. Campaign finance reform

that's what I'm talking about. It had failed so many times before, and they capitalized on the scandals to finally do it.

Same with getting the troops from the UN and NATO.

It's not all about bringing Bush down, it's also about saving troops' lives.

[Terwilliger]

45. Oh I see...he wants to shift blame away from the US, and thats GOOD?!

The US should pay the ENTIRE check in Iraq...ESPECIALLY considering that Dems and Pukes voted to allow the liar Bush to go to war WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!!!!

FUCK BUSH! FUCK THE DEMOCRATS IF THEY CANT STOP HIM!

[Cocoa]

52. No, he wants to work on the current situation

He did actually say that he wanted to get away from the debate about whether to go to war.

Which is understandable, since that debate is over, we went to war.

And it's a fact that there is a situation in Iraq, in the present time, and that our govt.'s actions still matter. Troops are dying every single day, regardless of whose fault it is, and I do believe that the way to assuage this crisis is to get troops from the UN and NATO.

THANK GOD THAT OUR SENATORS REALIZE THAT THEY STILL HAVE TO GOVERN, THAT THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO OTHER THAN SCREAM AND CALL BUSH A LIAR!!!!!

[Terwilliger]

75. Meaning they are themselves liars

deceivers and murderers

See...I guess you just dont realize that those Dems that needlessly gave Bush permission to go to war are IN FACT just as responsible for those deaths as Bush.

[jos]

47. It's way past time for him to go

:spank:

[Az]

49. Its called turning the screws

You have Daschle setting the standard by which a President is supposed to behave. You have Levin hunting the pResident in the field. Bush will be caught between them and squashed like the roadkill he is.

[Stuckinthebush]

54. Bingo!

We forget that politics is a game. We want to see everyone go after Bush with as much gusto as we have on this board. That would be a political mistake.

Daschle and Co. are playing this well.

Let's keep the letters going to congress and sit back and watch.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

51. Tom Daschle...

Daschle defends Bush but ruins himself!!! Looser, Looser, Looser!!!

[OKNancy]

55. Nope

Daschle believes Bush will ruin himself.

It's a game that Levin, Kennedy, and Levin are playing effectively.

[David__77]

53. sometimes, it's better to be quiet, Mr. Daschle...

like right now!

[LuminousX]

57. Step Down Daschle

Send it as a fax.
Send it in email.

Does he not realize that Bush will work just as hard to unseat him whether he plants his lips on Bush's ass or not?

Step Down Daschle!

[Cocoa]

61. How does it feel being on the same side as Drudge?

he was planting the seeds of Daschle being replaced with Sen. Clinton.

Hey, and Rush Limbaugh too. Daschle is one of Rush's favorite targets.

[Classical_Liberal]

79. Drudge planted Clinton, because he knew she would be as milquetoast

as Daschle. Nevertheless, just about anyone would be better.

[Forkboy]

83. How does it feel

to know that you're using the tried and true Repub tactic of guilt by association?

[realFedUp]

58. Pass Tom the Preparation Impeach.

Works on inflamed body parts also...

[ThorsteinVeblen]

60. Democratic Party is a DEAD, ROTTING CORPSE

x

[Cocoa]

64. watch the dem presidential candidates campaigning

On C-Span, or in person.

You will see they are alive and well, thanks.

It's both the candidates and the audiences. Tons of anti-Bush energy, a lot of hope, a lot of democratic spirit.

[Old and In the Way]

106. And the alternative to the Democrats are who, ThorsteinVeblen?

Please tell us who'd lead us to the promised land?

Terwillinger, please feel free to add your thoughts too.

[dpbrown]

62. I read it that he finds misleading to be unacceptable

I don't read it to be upholding the concept of misleading. He appears to be criticizing Bush, not defending him.

[Lucille]

63. He's not "defending" Bush , he's telling you that rather than "gleefully"

and unpatriotically attack Bush for political gain, it pains him to even contemplate the crime of which Bush has been accused--it's so outside the pale as to be inconceivable, for this or any other president. Except Daschle knows, and the listener knows, that the facts indicate otherwise.

Mommies and Daddies use this strategy all the time when the cookie jar is broken, and junior, lips smeared with chocolate chips, claims he knows nothing about it.

Well, dear, I know you would never lie to me, because it's very, very bad to lie, and you're such a good child--you would never do anything like that, would you? By the way, honey, what's that stuff on your lips--it looks like chocolate.

Dascle's also countering the effect of the "it's no big deal, it's just a few words from a speech" argument. Those particular words have had, and will continue to have, devastating consequences.

There's a little of Marc Anthony's speech in Daschle's statement...
Did Saddam seem ambitious to wage nuclear war?
Bush says he was ambitious; and Bush is an honorable man

[jcgadfly]

67. Let me get this straight

He voted for all the things that Bush proposed and now it pains him to contemplate that he was misled?

Senator, I hope this works the way you want it to. I fear, however, that your prior condoning of his actions will come back to haunt you.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

72. You got it all wrong

Bush* proposed attacking any and every country in the Mideast without going to the UN. Kerry voted for much less than that.

[jcgadfly]

81. Not talking about Kerry

I was talking about Daschle. The war resolution wasn't the only thing I was using. Daschle is coming off as the poster victim for bipartisanship.

If he's practicing gamesmanship in this instance, he's either an idiot or has ice water in his veins.

PS: sorry for previous double post. my system's screwy today.

[sangh0]

82. My mistake. I meant Daschle

but the response still applies. Your charaterization of the Iraqi Resolution as being exactly what Bush* wanted is extremely off.

[jcgadfly]

93. Again, not only talking about the war resolution.

The war resolution is what is currently causing Daschle's misgivings but he voted to follow Bush's lead on other reslutions that Bush wanted for the sake of political expediency.

[sangh0]

97. That's not true either

I can't hardly think of anything that Daschle voted for that was "following Bush*'s lead". That doesn't apply to judges, taxes, Homeland Security, the budget, energy plan, Leave No Child Behind Act, etc. Off the top of my head, the only thing Bush* got passed without any changes was the PATRIOT ACT.

Wait, even that's not true! The PATRIOT Act was revised (to add sunsets to some of it) at the insistence of the Dem leaders like, you guessed it, Daschle.

[jcgadfly]

107. Band-aids on bullet wounds

The bills you mentioned were bad legislation on their face. They should never have passed, tweaks or otherwise. Passing those bills (many times without reading them) shows that the Democrats in the Senate have all become slaves to bipartisanship as defined by the GOP. The Republican define bipartisanship as "kissing both Bush butt cheeks, not just one". Daschle may be the minority leader, but he is a leader nonetheless. He needs to start earning the nickname that the GOP gave him - "Obstructionist". He needs to use his energies to block more than the occasional appointment and start fighting legislation. I know he knows how.

Incidentally, the most rancid parts of the PATRIOT act aren't covered by the sunset clause. They'll go on like the energizer bunny.

[sangh0]

112. Changing your story?

Earlier you said "He gleefully voted for all the things that Bush proposed "

Now that I've shown that you were wrong, you've changed your story to "not enough" without so much as an acknowledgement that you let your emotions lead you to grossly overstate the facts.

And passing those bills shows that the Republicans are in the majority in Congress.

(BTW, most legislators vote on most bills without reading them.)

[jcgadfly]

133. What change of story?

Bush proposed them. Daschle tweaked some minor changes without changing the salient portions of the bills (sunsetting clauses that he knew were asinine) and voted for what Bush wanted.

Just because what Bush wanted in the PATRIOT act is supposed to go away after he's out of office (if you believe that's going to happen I have some oceanfront property in Switzerland to sell you) doesn't mean that Daschle didn't vote for what Bush wanted. He voted on a time limit not to change the law. He still voted for what Bush wanted.

As far as most legislators voting on bills without reading them, yes I know they do. I believe it to be a stupid thing to do. You wouldn't sign a contract without reading it, would you? They're our representatives and what they do affects us. I'd like them to read what they vote on and take our views into account before they vote. I can't go with the "It was proposed and what the sponsor says sounds good - I vote Aye." attitude that pervades this rubber-stamp legislative branch.

I'm glad you're happy to put up with bad law that doesn't go away until after the first year of the next President's term (some parts don't go away at all).

On the other stuff re: Daschle. I researched it later and my emotions did get the better of me. I apologize.

If the bills are going to pass because of a Republican majority anyway, voting against them won't stop their passage but it clears the conscience. How does voting with the Republicans help again?

[ewagner]

89. Good analogy

...that Marc Anthony reference is perfect.

Well said.

[Eloriel]

69. This is the most depressing thread I've read on DU in a long while

Those of you who are standing up for a milquetoast response like this from Daschle are beyond hope. Some of you sound like pod people, or Bushbots except it's Daschle you're defending not of Bush. I'm left wondering just what WOULD get your ire up about the milquetoast Chamberlains on Capital Hill.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WHO FAILED TO CHALLENGE BUSH AGGRESSIVELY every SINGLE day since 12-12-00 is jointly responsible for all the harm that Bush has done, including the deaths of Iraqis and Americans and the destruction of a sovereign nation. And all the other environmental, economic, Constitutional astrocities that have been leveled on this country in these 26 months. And those of you who have allowed this to go on without challenging our elected "representatives" are equally to blame.

I cannot believe what I'm reading in some of these posts. Some of you I'm seeing in a new light, and it ain't flattering.

And we wonder how the Germans could allow what happened there to happen. Just take a look, folks. It's all right here to see for yourselves.

Eloriel

[Cocoa]

70. let's examine this

Why do you find it depressing that some people interpret the actions of Daschle, for example, differently than you do?

I think Daschle is playing this correctly, and I've said why, and I don't find it depressing that some disagree.

What I do find depressing is the namecalling, hyperbole, shouting, misrepresenting, and other such rhetoric that can be found in the anti-Daschle posts.

The references to Germans following Hitler is over the top. I find it depressing that someone would degrade the conversation by stooping to that.

[sangh0]

73. The Hitler reference is appropriate

if applied to Eloriel's expectation that we would all interpret this the same way.

[Terwilliger]

76. Stop stooping to Bush! Whack the f***er over the head already!

POLITICALLY of course :eyes:

[CWebster]

77. Because

Daschle has playing this game all along. Rally has worked, hasn't it?

[JNelson6563]

71. This reminds me

Today I got a solicitation from Dem Leadership. I sent no money but a note that said:

I regret that I cannot send money to help the cause at this time. Perhaps when the Democratic mantra of:

I stand shoulder to shoulder with pResident Bush

quits ringing in my ears I will send money.

Cutting off funding isn't enough, let 'em know WHY.

Julie

[tom_paine]

74. Jesus Christ, Daschle! What the hell is wrong with you?

No balls having bastard.

The Totalitarian Scum raked Clinton over the hot coals, presumed guilt until proven otherwise, and used their Right-Wing Sub-Media (before people began to recognize it for what it was...Party Approved Media like Nazis and Commies) to keep the pot stirring on mostly nonsense.

Now they yowl like kids with a scraped knee when someone gives some of their own back at them, compounded by the fact that BUSH'S LIES resulted in thousands of deaths...and lame-ass surrender-monkeys like Daschle come along and fellate Emperor AntiChrist* to give cover.

Believe it, Daschle, you fucking weak-kneed turd.

[m_h_lovecraft]

80. A hint of strategy

Daschle has made his career playing the good cop... we pereceive him as soft-bellied & pink tutu'd, and he very well may be. The issue with Daschel is we have no idea of his sideline political abilities, the so-called gladhand factor. But what this does is put a Democratic leader squarely on the Republican side, thus POTENTIALLY reversing claims that this is a partisan and "politicized" coordinated attack.

For the record though, on the outset, he does continue to make me squirm in discomfort, shame and disgust.

[Forkboy]

84. trouble is

we've been hearing that he has a hidden strategy for 2 years now.I'm starting to think they're about as crafty as Wile E. Coyote,and just about as successful.

[sangh0]

85. Where did you hear about a "hidden strategy"

or are you just making that up?

[Forkboy]

92. Unlike you Sangha I dont need to make things up

How's the evidence of Dean dodging Vietnam coming along?

[sangh0]

98. So you'll have no problem producing a cite?

I thought not. You're just making it up.

[Forkboy]

100. Plenty of DUers have stated that they felt

there was some actual strategy.Sorry you missed it.I can't search DU so you're bumming,but I'm sure many other long time DU-ers remember.You probably remember it as well,but think you're being clever.Sadly,you're just proving yourself to be a grand master of hypocrisy....again :eyes:

Speaking of cites,do you have one to back up your clear insinuation that Dean dodged Vietnam? I thought not.You're just making it up.

Of course,I'm still open if you can provide something.I asked and asked and asked before but for some reason you kept avoiding me like the plague,though oddly that same day you were posting all over DU and even in the same thread where I asked.You must have missed it,so I'm asking again.I know you're such a stickler for facts and "cites" that you must have one handy to back up that rather serious charge,no?

Let us know when your blatant hypocrisy dries up.

[sangh0]

105. Plenty? But you still can't post a cite?

Yep, I believe ya!!

Two years you've been hearing this, but you can't name one cite. That makes sense.

Speaking of cites,do you have one to back up your clear insinuation that Dean dodged Vietnam? I thought not.You're just making it up

No, you are. I never said that Dean dodged the draft. Care to provide a cite for where I said that?

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

115. You didn't answer me

You still haven't provided a cite or named anyone who has posted about a "secret plan" and you havent posted a cite showing where I said Dean is a draft-dodger, so I'll take nothing "on faith" from you.

As for Dean,you questioned the poster who stated his LEGITIMATE reason for not being accepted by the military by saying,"You expect me to believe,that given the context of the times when they would take nearly any able bodied person,that they wouldn't take Dean?"
You can try to backpeddle,dodge,lie,obfuscate,whatever it is that makes you feel all snug in bed at night,but I know it's true,and you know exactly what you were implying when you said that.

Ahh, now I see it. You think you know what I meant (ie "exactly what you were implying ") better than I do. My point was that Dean must have made his spinal fusion known to the Draft Board.

I can't find a "cite" for you.

Of course you can't. You made it up.

you also know I've been harping on you for the Dean bs you tried to sell

I hope you realize that that's against DU rules.

[Forkboy]

119. Spin spin spin spin

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Now I know that not only are you a blazing hypocrite but you're intellectually dishonest as well.

I didn't make anything up and you know it...but by all means,do continue.

[sangh0]

123. Still cant come up with a cite?

and you say I'm spinning.

[Pastiche423]

90. Have some people's memories

wacked out like *'s?

How many times have we been told to be patient? How many times have we been told Daschle has a stealth plan? How many times have we been told Daschle knows what he's doing?

How many times has his stealth plan worked?

For cripe's sake! It hasn't even been a year yet! Stealth, "mature", gentlemanly, wimpy strategies DO NOT WORK against * and his enablers.

How's the temperature in your pot feel?

[sangh0]

91. What's with the "stealth plan" and the "hidden plan"?

and why won't won't you pass that bhang my way?

[Pastiche423]

121. Do the months leading up to

the night of the long knives ring a bell?

Btw, what is a "bhang"?

[sangh0]

124. No, no bells ringing here

You might want to get that looked into.

And "bhang" is also spelled "bong"

[Pastiche423]

130. Do you really like

living in denial? You were there in the thick of it, just as you are now.

I don't have a bhang, do have some papers, but alas, have nothing to put in either.

Any and all donations would be appreciated.

[Cocoa]

94. How did they stop Estrada?

did Charles Schumer photoshop a Hitler moustache onto Estrada's face and show it on the Senate floor?

No, if they had done that, then Estrada would be hearing cases right now. Instead, they used "measured tones." The ones who freaked out, and lost, were the republicans.

[sangh0]

99. How did they stop school vouchers?

Bush campaigned for an Education bill that included school vouchers. The Dems put an end to that idea, and rather quickly, even though they didn't use any Nazi imagery.

Thank God our representatives have more inagination than those DUers who think the only way to fight is to shout.

[jcgadfly]

110. Shouting is not the only way to fight

I have a problem when they use calm, measured tones when shouting is called for.

Whispering "fire" in a burning building may make you feel like you gave the warning but the people who didn't hear you are just as dead.

Daschle had no problem shouting when Bush accused the Senate Dems of being un-American. Why is he using calm tones when people are being killed as a result of his deception?

[sangh0]

116. You contradict yourself

You say that shouting isn't the only way to fight, but when an issue arises, the only way you suggest fighting it is by shouting.

[jcgadfly]

134. Did your read the post?

I said when shouting is required, speaking calmly is the wrong move.

Different fights require different weapons. I think Daschle is using the wrong one.

Or do you only bring knives or bare knuckles to gun fights?

[Forkboy]

101. According to some hypocrites here

no one has ever said that on DU.It's our feeble imaginations Pastiche :shrug:

[sangh0]

109. Plenty of DUers have said

It's just so odd that you can't name one.

[Forkboy]

113. "You're grasping at straws Reager!"

Your spin and dodge capabilities would make both Chubby Checker and Cascious Clay proud.

But by all means,do continue! :hi:

[sangh0]

117. Still can't come up with a cite?

And you say I'm spinning and dodging.

But by all means,do continue! :hi:

[Forkboy]

122. We can't search DU

don't blame me,I dont make the software or run the server.Can you search DU?

It sure is odd that you've only found the "courage" to defend yourself on the Dean statement only AFTER I explained that I can't search DU1...go figure.And funny how you keep asking for a cite even though I've clearly explained why I can't provide one.I really couldn't give a dry fart if you believe me or not. :shrug: So you can keep asking if it makes you feel like you're scoring points.I think I'll survive the scandal :eyes:

As for pointing out your hypocrisy,if it's against DU rules then the mods will deal with me.

Spinning and dodging,spinning and dodging.Yup,I do say that!

[sangh0]

125. Still can't post a cite?

I'll wait.

[Forkboy]

126. keep waiting

Still can't post a cite to back up your Dean insinuation?

[tom_paine]

103. LOL Forkboy!

Damned right! They just want to throw ol' Brer Rabbit into that mean old Briar Patch.

Maybe Daschle is doing the right thing, but you couldn't prove it by me.

[Best_man23]

95. Mr. Daschle

Pleas resign your Senate seat and go into retirement. The Democratic Party needs leaders with guts and conviction, not kneeling asskissers.

In the name of God, Go!

[knight_of_the_star]

96. What he is doing is really very clever

If this was a real battle, what he is doing would be referred to as "lying in wait." EVERYTIME I use that on my opponents in war games they sit and taunt me and call me a coward until they are where I watn them, then they shut up quickly when their entire army gets shattered like glass in one, swift blow. He just has to wear down Bush enough so that one, swift blow will take him out, because if he doesn't have enough to drop him in one shot then it will be all over, he won't get another chance at pulling a good shot off at Bush until Bush does something of surpassing idiocy (I don't think he could, he's done about all he can short of launching nukes)

[jcgadfly]

108. How long does Daschle plan to lie in wait?

There has been opportunity after opportunity to sink Bush that he has let slip by. The only people who are fighting Bush are members of his own party. Letting the Repubs sink their boy is not going to make Daschle look any more effective.

[tomp]

114. what is really wrong with this is...

...there's absolutely know reason for any person knowledgeable in american history to think this way. anyone who has actually been paying attention to american history, recent and otherwise, should know that presidents do all kinds of shit just like this. why would he not be prepared to believe it, unless he's a freakin' moron.

it is a disservice to the american people to perpetuate the myth that the american presidents are some sorts of saints, especialy in the area of foreign policy, which has been a corporate wish list for the last century. the dems are just as responsible now and earlier for all sorts of "misadventures". imperialist foreign policy is bipartisan and is totally corrupt and daschle knows it and is pretending not to.

[Pepperbelly]

127. A Senator should not go off half-cocked like an internet hothead...

and i cannot believe the people here who disapprove of someone acting like an adult rather than shooting off his mouth about something that is thusfar not established through lawful methods.

Daschle, admirably, is keeping his powder dry. He removed no options, he did not support Bush in any way, rather instead indicating how dreadful and difficult is is to believe that a POTUS would intentionally mislead the nation into war, and recommeded a full inquiry into the TOTAL situation, note not the "16 little words".

Give it a rest and climb off that cross for a bit, take a deep breath, have a cold drink and relax for a bit. It takes time for things to unravel and it is always a fragile process. Screwing the pooch by jumping the gun would be both foolish and childish.

[samsingh]

131. most Senators do go off half-cocked

Dashle always hurts Democrats by being so subdued. i don't think he's effective.

[thermodynamic]

132. WTF IS HE ON!? Or is he simply acting?

He's a dumbfuck if he's sincere in his comment.

We need energy, backbone, and action.

No more capitulation.

The pukes would personally shoot any Dem president in this situation with an AK-47.

The Iraq debacle, Selection 2000, the $460 billion deficit ($490 bil next year)...

THE PRESIDENT IS STILL RESPONSIBLE, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY HE IS RESPONSIBLE!!!

Wake up Daschle, you Dickhole, don't be so naive. Bush wanted this "war" just to kill Saddam personally for his own personal vendetta. That's all it is. (Events have also shown this was a war over oil as well, but vengeance and retaliation for childish name-calling was still the driving force behind all the lies and deception.)

Go to Hell, Daschle. You'll find Bush there, too - probably running things.

[dsc]

135. kick

:kick:

[dsc]

136. kick

:kick: