News on Judith ....

[H2O Man]

There is a report found on Truthout from Reuters that indicates Judith's lawyers had attempted to strike the same deal with Fitzgerald a year ago, as they made this past week. Floyd Abrams, who is a decent man, had tried to get Fitzgerald to agree to seek limited testimony. The key was his agreeing to only discuss Judith's talks with Libby, not Libby's release -- which also came a year ago.

Scooter is in trouble.

[thinkingwoman]

1. thanks for the update

think we'll get indictments for Scooter and Rove? I would settle for those as a start.

[AuntiBush]

2. The Whole Event is Confusing

Scooter, yes. But, what about Rove/Cheney/and *?

[H2O Man]

7. There are two

distinct, but related, potential targets. One is the president's office, meaning Rove and those who played supporting roles in the conspiracy; the second group is the vp's office, which is Libby and Co.

Fitzgerald's job is to get a wedge between the groups. A good prosecutor does now want their roots connected like trees in Aspen, to paraphrase some of Libby's coded message to Judith.

At this point, I believe Fitzgerald has accomplished his goal. This does not mean that everyone who will eventually be damaged -- or convicted -- will be indicted this week. But it does mean that he will move to indict the necessary targets.

[AuntiBush]

10. Hope You're Right.

As I watch my country fall deeper and deeper w/each passing day.

Thanks, H2O Man, again. :hi:

[KharmaTrain]

13. Looks Like A Focus On The Iraq Group

I think that's the title...the group headed out of Cheney's Office that had the means, intent and motive to out Plame. I'm not sure if Rove was tied into this...and see the parallel investigation of the leak of that memo on AF1...thus involving the Executive.

Now the game turns to who connects with whom. Assuming Libby is the source of Plame's name and Rove is the one who gave it to Novak via that leaked memo. Now my fun is trying to connect the media types like Miller and Novakula and Tweety and others who participated in this telephone game.

Cheers...

[H2O Man]

14. That's right.

And the Iraq group is a combination of Cheney's people with a few of Bush's. Those connections are, exactly as you say, the point where Fitzgerald is applying the most pressure.

[fooj]

3. Good. How about old Dickey Poo?

Peace.

[wtbymark]

4. sounds like she's still hiding someone else though (nt)

[Rose Siding]

5. That's in this piece too- Fitz had threatened to keep reimpaneling GJs

-to keep Miller locked up for a long time if she didn't testify...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2129863&mesg_id=2129863

...Patrick Fitzgerald signaled he intended to reimpanel a new grand jury—a move that could have kept Miller in jail for another year and a half, say two lawyers close to the case who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the talks. A federal judge sent Miller to jail on July 8 for refusing to talk about her conversations with her source, who, it was disclosed last week, was Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis (Scooter) Libby. Fitzgerald indicated he would not let the matter drop when the grand jury, investigating the leak of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity, expires in late October. Instead, he would keep his long-running probe open with a new grand jury....

[Kagemusha]

6. No one ever gave me a good reason why Fitz couldn't do this.

Seems people just couldn't believe he really would, not that he ever couldn't.. it was silly to think that Miller and the NYT could just run out the clock and that'd be the end of the consequences.

[H2O Man]

9. He did a year ago.

The grand jury would have ended last July. Fitzgerald uncovered some significant information in early July, and the judge overseeing the proceedings granted the extension.

[Kagemusha]

12. Well, the step above is a new grand jury not an extension

but that's small potatoes...

And making the government empanel a new grand jury certainly does raise the spectre of criminal contempt of court..

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. Then Rove's in trouble, too

It was reported that it was Libby and Rove who teamed up on this matter. And Novak wrote 'two top WH officials'. You can't tell me The Architect was unaware of the criminality of the behaviour.

Mincing words to say, "I never said her name" is what both of them claim and it's a load of crap! All one would have to say is, "Wilson's wife" and technically her name is not said but the result is the same.

[seemslikeadream]

11. As the noose tightens - remember the memo

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10375


Remember The Memo
As the noose tightens at the White House, the State Department memo may be the key piece of Plame evidence.
By Michael Tomasky
Web Exclusive: 10.03.05



Think it’s fair to say that the combination Sunday of the Walter Pincus–Jim VandeHei piece in The Washington Post and George Stephanopoulos’ bombshell on television’s This Week felt like a tug on the noose around the White House’s neck?

The Post article noted that Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor looking into the Valerie Plame investigation, could bring conspiracy indictments against Karl Rove and Scooter Libby -- even if he fails to pin down evidence that they violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

Stephanopoulos did them one better: He said to George Will on his show that a source told him that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney “were actually involved in some of the discussions” about how the White House should deal with Joe Wilson and Plame, his wife.

OK, before we go any further, let’s pinch ourselves: I still think it will be awfully difficult for Fitzgerald to bring indictments against high-level officials. Bureaucratic layering is such that high officials typically have five or six degrees of separation from controversial actions, so that they can say “my hands were clean” and some underling the media have never heard of can take the fall.

It’s kind of like in The Constant Gardner -- the pharmaceutical company doesn’t need to order an actual hit; it merely has to let out word that so-and-so is a problem, and by the time the word gets to the sixth sociopath down the line, the comment is understood to mean murder. But no executive ever said, or perhaps even ever intended, any such thing.

more

[H2O Man]

15. I think that

Chris Matthews' comment on Friday about Haldeman and Ehrlichman is very important. He was speaking of Libby and Rove. Matthews knows more than he choses to say, of course. But that statement is fascinating.

I'm going to look through and write up a little something about Nixon's German Shepards, as the two were known. If you have anything to help the younger folks appreciate Matthews' comparison, I would really appreciate it.

[Pithy Cherub]

16. Under the law, intent counts for a great deal.

Socratically speaking, was there an intent to defame and marginalize Wilson by using his wife? Was the full intent to cover up a far worse initial crime of creating false conditions for war (Niger documents, DSM, David Kelley) which meant that Plame was secondary but the most overt manifestation of this conspiracy. Hmmm...

Judy is interesting only because she went to jail to limit the scope of the inquiry, not to protect a source as has been claimed. I think it is safe to surmise that initial indictments are to bring pressure to bear to set up the big fish. This is going to be good because nobody has any political capital left to spend on this while Bush is going into winter with high gas prices, a controversial SCOTUS nominee, a seriously weakened republican leadership, an enfeebled domestic agenda and any national security credibility torn to shreds by the Katrina response and no love coming from anywhere in the world except from his Bristish poodle! Lovely, indictments could be handed out for months as this goes on. :popcorn:

The Sequel: All the Presidents Men and Women, the Bush edition should be a great read after all their asses are in jail! :popcorn: