The numbers are not in the "dead' but the "missing'

[Tinksrival]

I hear reports on the "surprise" at the low body count for Katrina. Even that Hanity piece of shit said liberals had egg on their face because there wasn't enough dead for the outrage put forward. But I remember reading and hearing about over four thousand missing children at one point being reported by The Center for Missing and Exploited Children. So I have been wondering just how many people are still missing and is there any media outlets reporting on the katrina missing. A google search brings up alot of sights to report someone missing but I cannot find a real central place that is tracking these numbers. It seems there are no news stories on the number of missing either. The closest I can get to any number is a sight called
KatrinaSOS.org / PublicPeopleLocator.com / PublicFamilyLocator.com
Central Registry of Missing and Safe Persons affected by Hurricane Katrina.


http://www.publicpeoplelocator.com/index.php?peoplePage=1

This site has 1,006 pages of names with 40,220 entries. Some have been found and some are repeats but the majority are still listed as missing. If even half are accurate that leaves around 20,000 still missing. That could still be way off but the numbers are still quite high in comparison to the "official dead count". So is the government tracking the missing count? Are they reporting the "official missing count" anywhere? Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Oh and if there are thousands missing...Where are they?

[Tuesday_Morning]

1. kick and recommend

These are questions we need to be asking.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I've noticed the same thing

and posted a thread about it a couple of weeks ago.

The whole situation is strange. After 9-11 they made a big deal about figuring out the list of the missing and the number of confirmed dead was published daily. Yet for Katrina the dead and missing are hardly even noticed.

[Fridays Child]

3. Normally, those unaccounted in a disaster for are enumerated...

...but that's not a number I've heard anyone refer to, in this case. Surely, there is an official estimate.

[walldude]

4. Hannity

Even that Hannity piece of shit said liberals had egg on their face because there wasn't enough dead for the outrage put forward.
So I wonder how many avoidable deaths have to be tabulated before Hannity is "outraged".

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

26. nevermind the 10,000s homeless, either

everything is good in bushland, according to hannity. we showed 'you and your lib'rul friends'

[bettyellen]

5. they let these bodies are so far gone, they need DNA to ID, but how many

people whose homes were lost, can't find any traces to use for DNA? iding how many dental offices lost their records? for that matter- how many of these poorer folk have any dental records in the first place? if the bodies are so far gone, they won't be able to "determine" cause of death and won't count them? if people with more resources who came back to dead family and had them picked up can't get the remains back, it looks really bad. the stalling with the bodies is horrible, but i think it'll effect the count, too.

[IndyOp]

6. Search 640,000 + survivor records at once at KatrinaList.Net

Katrina List is a database - started, I think by DUers - who wanted to create a site that would combine the records from dozens of sites that have missing/found lists of people. This is associated with Katrina PeopleFinder Project. I don't know anyway to estimate the number of people who are still missing - but I agree that the truth will lie in the lists of 'missing persons,' not in the lies we are being told about the death toll..

Katrina List includes the Red Cross list (ICRC) and:
Clarion-Ledger
FamilyMessages
NOPundit
PearlRiver
Craigslist
BlogheraldFound
BlogheraldMissing
Bravenet
CastPost
DirecTV
EyesOnKatrina
Find Katrina
Hurricane Katrina Survivors
HurricaneRefugee
KatrinaConnection
KatrinaF&F
KatrinasLost
Katrina Messages
KatrinaSurvivor
Louisiana Nursing Home Association
MissingKatrina
MSNBC
NationalNextofKin
NoLA.com
NoLA Missing
NowPublic
NoYahooGroup
SurvivorLocator
Weather.com
WebSiteToolbox
WWLTV

[Tuesday_Morning]

23. I just looked at the yahoo message board for...

...Katrina missing.

Awful.

Beyond sad.

http://boards.news.yahoo.com/boards/

[nashville_brook]

7. the fact that we are all clueless on the body/missing count is STUNNING

of course the government tracks the dead. Social security would be a point of contact. death certificates have to be issued. they are recorded somewhere.

as to missing -- this is simply outrageous that mainstream media isn't honking this horn loud. good lord -- there might be a WHITE GIRL in the mix. sorry for the lashing out. but shit! this is journalism 101! who is dead? who is missing?

there shouldn't be ANY opacity to this. the fact that there is, is, well -- suspect.

[malaise]

12. It is beyond shocking

that they are all so silent about the missing from New Orleans, Gulfport and Biloxi. They will not get away with this.

[donkeyotay]

37. Governance by secrecy is the problem

The warehouse is off limits, so we don't know how many dead are in there. The media was stopped from reporting about the dead in NOLA, so of course there are rumors. The vote is counted by private, Republican companies, so of course people doubt the vote. The war was fabricated by an office that wasn't legislated (the OSP), so of course its findings were suspect. Legislation takes place in back offices, so of course the people are cynical. This administration closes the records from his daddy's, so of course we can speculate on why. Et cetera.

They keep having secret inquiries and closed hearings and reports. I have no confidence left in my government. None.

[Ladyhawk]

8. Even one death due to incompetence is too many.

I'm trying hard not to be hateful, but folks like Hannity really piss me off.

[pitohui]

9. if they're still missing they're dead

it's a month later, you can only stay alive w.out fresh food & water in a 130 degree attic for so long

[intheflow]

15. Not true.

I've been volunteering at the Red Cross. One woman I spoke with just found her grandfather only a couple days ago. A lot of people have had food and water but no transportation/gas or communications.

Though I agree the longer it goes on, the less likely more live people will pop up.

[Radio_Lady]

18. OT: Intheflow, where does the beautiful yin-yang design come from?

It's just gorgeous. Thanks in advance.

[intheflow]

22. I just Googled images

under the words "yin yang" and it came up on this site: http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--10055545/Yin_Yang_Harmony.htm

[Radio_Lady]

24. Thanks for replying. I'm going to save it for now.

[pitohui]

41. thanks i was feeling disheartened when i wrote that

you are correct, i spoke to several ppl today myself who did not have power, hence had not had the ability to communicate or get in touch until they were able to get roads cleared & get gas to drive to their cars & physically meet up w. ppl

there is still hope, you are correct, i will try not to be so down

[starroute]

19. Some may have gotten away but be unaccounted for

We know that families got split up. Some people have may have used the opportunity to avoid debts or family issues. Remember how the 9/11 totals gradually went down from 4000 to under 3000 as more people checked in?

Still, if the current missing list is 20,000, the final total is likely to be 10,000 or 15,000. And that's one awfully big coverup.

[pansypoo53219]

10. i guess

if they were rich enough/right color to matter, the teevee gnews would care.

[rocktivity]

11. Um, the lower the death count

the better a job the governor and mayor did! Pass the eggs, Sean!

:headbang:
rocknation

[DemonFighterLives]

13. Sean has sh*t on his face

damned asshat!
Too many died and the crime family is good with missing kids and sex slaves, so who the he*l knows where everyone ended up.
:argh:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

14. This is a government...

...that refuses to even attempt to maintain a count of Iraqi civilian casualties. How much effort are they going to put into an accurate count of poor, black Katrina fatalities? These aren't the missing, they're the forgotten. And the sooner the better as far as our government is concerned.

[Lone_Pawn]

16. Oh, I'm sorry, a thousand deaths due to negligence isn't enough?

Well, if we insist on outrage being something one earns by the amount of dead bodies God deigns to grant our political party, judging by the outrage that Sept 11th got, I'm guessing that we "deserve" enough outrage to win one midterm election, and perhaps launch one illegal war.

[nashville_brook]

17. it's an odd meme, isn't it! i've heard many commentators speak of

the "magic number," 3,000. as if these deaths are being measured against 9-11. it's a weird form of "Heathers."

[Marnieworld]

38. Welcome to DU!

Keep posting and reading and tell your friends! :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Some may be "missing" in the sense that families were split up

in the relocation process and have been sent to separate shelters.

On the Japanese news on AZN-TV the other day, I saw a segment about a 16-year-old Indonesian youth who had survived the tsunami, didn't know where his family was, and had been taken in by a couple at the refugee camp. However, while the Japanese news crew was at the camp, the young man's older sister and her husband showed up, having found his picture in a photo gallery of "unaccompanied minors." This is ten months after the tsunami.

I wonder how many stories like this there are from the Gulf Coast.

However, I suspect that a lot of them are dead and will never be found and/or identified.

[intheflow]

21. I very much believe the count is being kept low on purpose.

I don't thnk they're reporting all the bodies they're finding. But a good number of people may have been washed out to sea, as well. You're right on the money to wonder about the missing, and the number of missing sounds right, too. Maybe as high as 30,000. :cry:

[mikelewis]

25. Over 7,500 Adults still missing as of 9/30/05

According to the Center for Missing Adults, there are over 7,500 people still missing as of 9/30/05. They do not list the number of missing but thier database of names has 42 names a page over 185 pages. That totals 7,770 names approx.
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmalistview.php?wstr=Catastrophe&alpha=A

I find it hard to believe that this many people are missing and presumed alive at this point. These people would have had some sort of official contact while recieving aide from some agency. Either this is just completely incompetent or these numbers are going to climb silently just as the death toll from 9/11 crept lower and lower. On 9/11, I remember reports of 20,000 dead and finally the number has settled at just over 2,000. So by this timeline, the time 2009 rolls we should have some idea of how many people died in Katrina.

[Tinksrival]

27. Thank You for the info

I think I'll do some emails to the media and see if I can get any response. Someone should be covering this angle......you would think?

[mikelewis]

30. There are 2,647 missing children

You can download an excel spreadsheet with all of the missing children reported to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. They were asked by the Justice Department to compile the list so this is pretty official.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2077

So with the two totals, there's about 10,417 people still unaccounted for a month after the storm. Hmmmm... I smell bullshit, 934 deaths seems a bit low compared to this number of missing.

[loudsue]

28. I'm still worried about those who were "relocated" to that remote

hillside in Utah, against their will.

One volunteer and her family went there with clothing, etc., and the place was surrounded by barbed wire, armed guards, and it was way off in the mountains...in the middle of nowhere.

People can't look for jobs from that remote location.

:tinfoilhat: I just wonder what the government had in mind for that poor colony of refugees.

:kick:

[Nothing Without Hope]

29. Even bodies found and identified by THEIR OWN FAMILIES are confiscated

and the official morgue refuses not only to release them for burial but EVEN TO ADMIT THEY HAVE THE BODY. What possible reason, except to suppress the official numbers?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4949027
Thread title: LAT: "Families Lose Loved Ones Again- in a Bureaucratic Mire" BODIES TAKEN

This is also, I believe, the reason behind what must have been another official decision: to leave bodies to rot for WEEKS, even in the strees of new Orleans where people passed them every day, so that identification became impossible.

Yes, the death toll is being suppressed. The numbers will be in the "missing," and you can bet the Administration will find a way to suppress or discredit that number too. The forced "resettlement" of evacuees around the country will help to keep those "missing" numbers haning in air, since perhaps they might be out there somewhere and simply lost touch, right?

[FogerRox]

31. dirty ugly work --good job though

I wondered how many the gators got--

[jbnow]

32. My outrage was never the body count

It could be lower then reported yet I would be outraged by the thousands of people stuck in horrible, smelly, hot "shelters without food or water for far too long.
Every day I thought food and water would get there that day or they would get out. Every night I grieved that they were still there. I can't imagine being in buildings with thousands of people with no toilets, out of water and it was over 100 degrees. I can't imagine being in there feeling so abandoned by the whole country. I can't imagine trying to walk out and have guns pointed at me or shot over my head to make me turn around. I can't imagine paying for and ordering buses and them never coming, confiscated. (and for what, what did they do with the buses they took). I can't imagine being told a bus would come, get in line and waiting for hours in that heat and no bus comes.

There is my outrage. Our country treated people that way as the world watched. I was hoping some friendly country would invade just to get them out. It was horrible for me sitting in my cool home where I had toilets and all the food and water I could watch. How must have they felt being in there?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. That was my anguish,too

Hurricanes happen, and people die in them, but there was no excuse for leaving the survivors trapped for so long. No excuse at all, not when everyone in the world knew exactly what was happening and where the largest concentrations of stranded survivors were.

Then come the reports of survivors being housed under guard in out-of-the-way locations with regimented rules. (Someone earlier posted about a church camp in Oklahoma that was housing survivors, and they found out that the people were not going to be allowed to leave the camp, nor were they going to be allowed to cook in the cabins--supposedly because of fear of fire.) My guess is that states such as Oklahoma and Utah are allowing survivors in ONLY with the assurance that "those people" will be kept strictly segregated from the general population so that they don't "cause trouble."

If a middle-class white area had been destroyed, would the survivors have been sent to distant states against their will and kept under nearly prison camp conditions?

I think not.

If I were in charge of resettlement for FEMA, I would give the survivors a choice: either go to a new city under a program similar to that under which foreign refugees are resettled by family members, churches, or civic groups, or stay in the area in a newly-built trailer city and have priority for reconstruction jobs.

The way the survivors of Hurricane Katrina have been treated will go down as yet another shameful chapter in American history.

[jbnow]

39. I didn't know about

"reports of survivors being housed under guard in out-of-the-way locations with regimented rules."

I'm sure the overblown reports of looting, shooting and rape didn't help them when they went to shelters or other placements.

More shame, you are right about that.

[pitohui]

40. "If a middle-class white area had been destroyed..."

if?

there is no "if" abt it

a middle class white area has been destroyed, in fact, quite a few of them

making yrself part of the problem by pretending that only poor black ppl are missing & disappeared, instead of acknowledging the dead & disappeared in the vietnamese & white community, is probably not the way to go if you want to ever find the true answer to your question

why this attitude of divide & conquer?

if it was just one or two posts like this, i'd let it fly by, but i'm seeing post after post, thread after thread trying to sell this same lie

it's disgraceful that even on a progressive website the impact of this disaster on ppl from all walks of life, not just the 9th ward, is being swept under the rug

white ppl & vietnamese ppl do not esp. appreciate being disappeared either

why can't we all work together on this?

if we make it abt one race, we marginalize it, and we never get the truth

you go check out lakeshore/lakeview/west end or go check out long beach, mississippi & then get back to me w. any thought that only poor black ppl were killed by this event

leave the race-baiting to the other side, thank you

[DaBruno]

33. Recommended (n/t)

[newyawker99]

34. Hi DaBruno!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[earth mom]

36. This topic should be in the news as a top story every day...

but of course it's not. Because *Co doesn't want to admit they are responsible for these deaths! And the Corporate Media Hos are looking the other way cause it's bad for business! :grr: