I'm in a philosophical mood

[serryjw]

I asked the question on another thread about State vs Federal power. Bushit's 'ownership society' where he wants everyone to take personal responsibility ( would someone teach me how to build the levees?)

My question..If you COULD redo your life, go to the best schools where you receive the best education and become wealthy (successful...by THEIR standards)....Would you? How much of HOW we believe is based on the hand we were dealt, would you change it if you could? Would your beliefs we different?
Can there REALLY be a society where everyone is a leader OR a business owner or must there also be 'followers'?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Each person has his place

My place, I feel, is to be of service to others. Personally, I don't feel the need for monetary wealth or a lot of "things" (in fact, I've spent a lot of time today sorting out clothes that I'll never wear again ). I was lucky to have had a very good education in public schools and a university lab school. I was also lucky in that, from an early age, I was exposed to people from different cultures and with different world views. I would not change this.

[TahitiNut]

2. A society where EVERYBODY is an owner ...

... is called Communism. Obviously, the "ownership society" is just another label for "rat race." It's lotto thinking -- but the odds are nowhere as good for the vast majority.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. Some educational philosophies

contend that the purpose of public education is to produce a working class skilled enough to work an assembly line but not smart enough to become a leader.

As a teacher, I sometimes wonder, because we do tend to value mediocrity.

If I personally could do it all over again I would develop more self-discipline in my life and stay physically active.

[Pharlo]

4. What conditions are attached to your scenario?

Would I go to the "best schools" and "acquire wealth"?

If I could keep my self respect intact and acquire the wealth, yes, I would. If it came down to acquiring wealth while doing what I was taught was wrong, no. I don't care how some people justify theft - whether someone is using a gun on a clerk, operating a storefront shoestring scam, or an ENRON, theft is wrong.

People who come from poverty, have a tendency to remember what it was like - and to empathize. People who were born to wealth or the 'upper class' have no concept of what 'not having enough money' means. Unless they are born with a phenomenal empathy quotient, they need to be indoctrinated (during childhood) by someone whom they respect with the concept of 'noblesse oblige'.

Barring either of these occurrences, they 'know' that the best schools and money are their God given right.

[derby378]

5. In an "ownership society," the people get owned

Try reading Uncle Tom's Cabin sometime. Now that was an ownership society.

[MojoXN]

6. You can't have a society with all chiefs and no Indians.

Even if you think that you do, you'll find that the "Indians" are the residents of another country.

Capitalism's big lie is that everyone can be wealthy. Damn you, Horatio Alger! :)

MojoXN

[stillcool]

7. i like to think that ...

what you own is what owns you. And that life does not stand still. Beliefs of yesterday no longer suit me today. Some have been out-grown, many proven to be harmful, and others that just don't fit. A society that values the human being would be my idea of utopia.

[Zynx]

8. If everyone had a college education and a graduate degree....

I think society would be very different and the economy would change fundamentally. We still need the grunt work to be done in our retail stores, wharehouses, loading docks, etc... and if everyone had roughly equal educations the wage spectrum would shift dramatically and there would be a good deal of wage and price inflation. Really, it would be impossible for everyone to be a successful business owner. This is what makes economics somewhat of a depressing topic. We simply have to figure out the best way of giving everyone at least a decent standard of living with the resources we have.

[serryjw]

9. Fascinating

Fascinating…I will respond to all. I agree that (hopefully) we all grow and evolve and have other priorities at different stages of our life. I think in the 60’s when an assembly worker made a living wage and had self respect, was valued for his contribution we as a country got closer to utopia. Everything has a price. Does anyone remember a movie in the 70’s called Turning Point with Mikhail Baryshnikov ? I remember having this conversation with a girlfriend. You can have anything you want in this world, you just can’t have EVERYTHING. There are trade-offs. There is family, kids, a good marriage and a successful demanding career. If you want it all, you probably will get none. The ‘rat race’ as it was referred to one choosing to go to your child’s softball game instead of the last business meeting. And that’s OK!

No matter what you want to spend on something there will always be a similar product that cost more and some that cost less. A perfect example is a car. To me it is transportation. I can’t imagine ever spending $100K on a car when people are starving in the world…. regardless of how much money I was worth.

Tallahassee Grannie was questioning our societies acceptance of mediocrity. Maybe it is a society that is scrambling with a failing of all institutions. I never hear young people say they want to have a successful marriage like their parents! Certainly no child dreams of ever being President of the United States.

Pharlo identified wealth with honor. Maybe it’s the different between how the Kennedy children were raised vs *

Mojo identified what I believe * is missing. No society can function without workers. The challenge is to have workers that are part of something bigger than themselves. Could we ever have gotten to the Moon is many people did not have the same vision. We have plenty of Bosses in this country but we are sadly lacking true leadership.