Should the term "b**ch-slap" be permitted on DU?

[blondeatlast]

Here's the definition from the newest edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English, widely considered the last word (no pun intended) on proper English usage.

OED does not generally include connotations. If "bitch-slap" simply consisted of OEDs definition, I wouldn't even be asking, but I think we all realize that it has long since passed this mark in connotation.

--------

bitch-slap: verb, to deliver a stinging blow to (someone), typically in order to humiliate them: "I would have bitch-slapped him for talking that way." Origin 1990s: originally black English, referring to a woman hitting or haranguing her male partner.

[HFishbine]

1. Yes

Although I don't condone violence against men.

[ShaneGR]

2. I bitch-slap freepers on a daily basis

So I voted yes.

[Terwilliger]

23. this post is EXACTLY why the term should not be used

anybody wanna ask sgr what he thinks "bitch-slap" means?

OnEdit: shoudl -> should

[salin]

36. let's try two ways of reading it

I just acted like a nagging wife who slapped her hubby to that freeper.

Or I just dealt a violent slap which shook that freeper senseless? (Ala the big brute husband slapping the wife senseless for not fixing dinner the right way).

Which usage is more likely the intended image to be conveyed?

[LuminousX]

3. Many People Need

a 'dope-slap' but a 'b**ch-slap' carries with it a severe negative connotation. So, I guess it depends on the way it is used.

[Kahuna]

4. Lol! Who could vote, 'no?'

[blondeatlast]

6. Me, although I voted "yes." I was torn.

I'd rather find a better alternative, like "dope-slap" or GodBush'nCheney's "bush-slap."

[XanaDUer]

8. Me, too.

The OED has a lot of words that would be innappropriate.

LC

[NicoleM]

13. Me.

I don't like the word "bitch." It's demeaning to women.

[salin]

26. well... perhaps those who think that using language

to convey public humiliation of women via domestic violence, are lacking in verbal abilities if that gratuitous image is needed to make the point; or that making so mundane in our language phrases that condone domination violence against women helps perpetuate attitudes that leave some less restrained males less able to recognize that these behviors are not socially acceptable?

Use the term - just know what it really means (and the thread originator's definition is a tad off, btw) - and do so prepared to take some flack for it - for one may have the right to express exceptionally violent images but others have the right to call on the use of such language.

However, the use of the term tends to reflect more negatively on the user (sort of like Arnies gratuitous use of boorish terms for parts of the female anatomy) than anything else.

[Cocoa]

5. yes, but people should consider voluntarily not using the word

if it offends people, why insist on using it?

[blondeatlast]

9. I voted "yes" for that reason; I think there are good alternatives that

convey the same emotion.

[rasputin1952]

7. I thought I might see this coming...

but I really didn't expect it so quickly.

I am not offended by your question; I am offended in the notion that all of the sudden, we are asking, or rather looking for, new ways to censor speech.

My point is, if we can allow explicit writing on any subject, why are we starting to look at specific words or phrases to censor?

Next it will be'fuck', or 'shit' or 'asshole', 'douchebag' 'scumbag', the list is endless.

We all know we need a tough skin to hang around in here, it can get pretty rough, but that comes with the territory. A creeping censorship, is far worse that an overt censorship. I can sympathize, but that is not the point, the only viable censorship, is self-censorship.

I see and read all kinds of things that offend me every day, but I am not the moral police. The language we have to use, is a poor enough way to communicate, I say, use all you can.

edited for spelling/grammar

[NicoleM]

15. There are already things you can't say here.

For example, some people like to say things like "Ann Coulter is such a slut!" when that's not what they mean at all. They don't like her so they attack her sexuality. I checked with the Admins and it's not allowed.

Do you think we should be able to use racial slurs on this board? Is there anything you think should be off-limits?

[salin]

39. I don't mind many of those things

but think that phrases meant to convey heavy duty domestic violence against women, used to make a point, ought to be thought about. Talk about creating a hostile environment.

I am glad the conversation is happening - because at least perhaps some will think about the choice of language - and what it is conveying, as well as what it conveys about the user of the language rather than mindlessly using a term that just numbs us to the point where violence against women is.. hohum.

Think about it - in order to convey that one just delivered a great verbal blow to a debate opponent - one has to bring in a visual that connotes picking a woman up and swatting her so hard she goes flying across a room? Great visual. No better way to make the point, eh?

If folks want to be boorish and exude a certain hostility towards fellow duers - so be it. But be aware of the backlash - because my speaking out against the particular language usage is no less freedom of expression than the choice to use that particular idiom. Likewise my challenging it is no more damaging to society (in the name of freedome of speech) than the use of that term (in the name of deadening the sensitivities to the reemergence of societal attitudes -via the fundies - to submissiveness of women, even at use of humiliation if need be).

[PDittie]

10. "pimp-slap" is less sexist

IMHO

[HFishbine]

32. Except

that a bitch-slap is one administered by a woman, while a pimp-slap is administered by a man, so why do you find one more acceptable than another?

[blondeatlast]

11. Administrations thoughts (Skinner);

"We generally use the "prime time TV" standard.

If a term is legal on prime time TV, then it's usually legal here. My understanding is that "bitch slap" is permitted on prime time television."

Here's the thread, on edit:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=120&topic_id=4972&mesg_id=4972

[Flying_Pig]

12. No.

It's low-class street pimp vernacular, that is degrading to women. If the term"bitch" were gender neutral, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it, but as it is a feminine word, I say dump it. How about "punk slap"? That is gender neutral.

Bottom line though, is that it's an unbecoming word, that has no place in thoughful political discourse.

[THUNDER HANDS]

14. can we change it to "pimp-slap"

Which, I always felt was a much cooler term.
:)

[JVS]

17. Be the change you wish to see in the world

You can't change one word to another, but you can use one word instead of another.

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. Be the change you wish to see in the world

EXCELLANT!!!!!

[JVS]

29. I think it's a Gandhi quote

And Excellent reminds me of a quote too

"Be excellent to each other, and PARTY ON DUDES"- Abraham Lincoln in Bill and Ted's excellent adenture, San Dima CA

[sexybomber]

31. I use that one anyway. (n/t)

[Gman]

16. Yes, but I never have liked the saying

It's demeaning to women, period. It suggests slapping around women is so common that it's now a euphenism. It suggests that it's ok to slap around women. I don't like the saying and I don't use it. But, I'm not going to say what someone can and cannot say. Anyone with any respect for women would not use the phrase. If someone using the phrase has never thought about what it actually implies, personally I think they're clueless and need to consider whether or not they really are a liberal. True liberals are always sensitive to women and their sensitivities and their well-being.

[JVS]

18. Shouldn't we use a more Pro-Democratic term like "Donkey Punch"?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. I'm thinking that a good alternative would be...

..."Bush-slap".

[MojoKrunch]

22. Ha!

I like that one.

Mojo

[MojoKrunch]

20. Voted No. Use dope-slap instead.

Non-gender specific and way less violent sounding.

"Dopes" *deserved* to be slapped, right?

Hey, it works for Click and Clack.

Mojo

[Terwilliger]

21. No

I think that term is particularly misogynist, since it came from the idea of hitting women.

[trigz]

24. You could also call it a "cow-pat". :D Sorry, that was silly (n/t)

[salin]

25. People using the term should be fully aware of the conotations

and if use them - know that they are being obnioxious and offensive.

I disagree with the above definition -

Have primarily seen the term used in two ways: refering to a very violent and humiliating blow given by a man to a woman (as in haul off so hard she gets hurled across the room); or in a prison type context where one inmate delivers a blind-siding takedown in order to humilate another prisoner into submission.

The reason the above connotation (in the thread originator) doesn't really hold, in terms of colloquial connotations - is the term is used to convery humiliation - and most women delivering the "slap" do not do so in a convincing enough way to deliver humiliation. This is not about the "bitch" doing the slapping it is about the "bitch" getting the slapping.

So users - know what you are saying if you use this term. Know that many readers will see it as willful use of language that has conjours up images of excessive domestic violence. And deal with the reprecussions (eg folks calling the gratuitious use of the term) as the same kind of free speech (of criticism) that was exercised in using the term. And if readers conjour up a particular image of the type of person who needs to bring visuals of domestic violence into their discussion to make their point... so be it. Not all readers - but some will. So do so not out of ignorance - but fully embracing your choice of language.

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. yes...that definition is backwards

what's with that? sheesh...everyone knows what it means yet the dictionary screws it up..go figure.

[salin]

34. Perhaps literalists

string the terms together "female-slap" so female must do the slapping?

The dictionary is less important than the normal use of the word. Somehow I doubt: I just bitch-slapped a freeper; is meant to mean: I just acting like a nagging wife and splapped a freeper; but instead to mean - I just got a sneak and heavy/duty/abusive slap in and humilated that freeper.

[HFishbine]

35. Your arguemnt

seems to suggest that if women could hit as hard as men, it would be okay.

[dofus]

28. No. It's genuinely offensive

in my opinion. There's a LOT of language used here that offends me, but I generally just ignore it.

[veracity]

33. let's cut the anti woman stuff

"bitch" is still an unacceptable term for a woman... There's no reason to us term that denigrates women's behavior. We're pretty capable of expressing ourselves with less offensive words.

It's not about "allowing" the word.....freedom of speech aside. It's about giving tacit approval to an ugly image.

[HFishbine]

38. I disagree

I keep bitch in my vocabulary. Although I rarely use it, it's the perfect word sometimes. Just as are bastard and dick.

[Elad]

37. I'm locking this thread

Skinner has already answered this question in ATA. If we wanted this to be put up to a vote, we would have done it.