BBV: Are polls favoring Schwartzenegger setting stage for " the fix"?

[shance]

This may appear to be an over reach to some of you, however, if you consider the consistent, neverending churning of spin and lies being bombarded at Americans everyday, it seems almost as though it would be the rule and not the exception.

First off, I cant imagine anyone (save perhaps Jesus Christ) who would be graced with this amazing luck of increasing percentage points in the polls, when now even more women have stepped up, the Nazi insinuations have painted a questionable shadow and doubt, not to mention some of Schwartzeneggers financial dealings, and in addition the latest news from Greg Palast's article which at this point, has yet to hit mainstream media.

I can't see an explanation for this rise in the polls to be ocurring. The president and his Administration look to be at their weakest standing ever, potential blow-ups are brewing in DC, and the war, Rush Limbaugh, etc. Its perhaps possible, but I think its more possible to conclude that the polls are probably being manipulated. Whoever formally audits the results found in polls? The networks? At best, Shwartzenegger might be holding his own in the polls, and I believe thats at best.

From an article posted yesterday by Lynn Landes, ES&S,Diebold and Sequoia have now installed the majority amount of electronic voting machines here in California.

From that news, it would be fair to conclude that all the articles and bad news in the world wont change the fact that we are looking at NO WAY to conduct a legitimate recount, essentially inviting potential major fraud without an audit trail.

My question is, how is this legal, when the so-called evidence of a vote is so open to manipulation by unseen and outside forces?

AND, if you can't monitor the entire procedure, then do you even have a legitimate election taking place?

First and foremost:

WE HAVE TO GET OUT THE VOTES.

Now it is more important than ever that we get every Dem out to the polls. Losing due to a fraudulent election is one thing, losing because we didnt vote is another, and there is no recourse if that is the case.

Above all else we have to ignore the polls, in my opinion, and assume they are wrong and/or probably biased, and focus more on the issue that this election is being implemented in ways that conflict with what constitutes a "fair" election.

But the problem remains, if there is no tangible way to legitimately know the votes have been counted accurately, and there has been an influx of concerns over the electronic voting, including concrete evidence of violations and doubts regarding electronic voting, how is the Recall itself valid and lawful? If electronic voting violates articles in the Constitution, then it seems to me the Recall is illegitimate and invalid.

More questions:

Have all our state and local leaders been made aware of the problems with electronic voting?

Do they not hold some responsibility if this recall goes through without having maintained and protected fair election standards for Californians? What is the possibility of a class action suit against whoever (or whatever) is ultimately responsible?

It is apparent that electronic voting violates Articles I and I of the Constitution. It also would appear there is some legal ramification there, not to mention our leaders should have some responsibility in this if they are not protecting the sanctity of the vote and ignoring this problem. I think these questions must be addressed, because if what Lynn Landes says is true, then Arnold could be the anti-Christ and it apparently doesn't matter.

These questions I think are key in approaching what needs to be done next, and in the meantime, we need to continue to inform individuals about electronic voting and,get out there and VOTE.

[Cha]

1. Could be! But it's not Georgia! It's California..so why aren't

the Dems in charge of the voting and how they do it? For crying out loud the refreakin'pukes can't be everywhere, can they?

[DEMActivist]

11. Do NOT forget it was Democrats in Georgia, too

It was/is a Democratic Secretary of State who controls these machines in Georgia. Cathy Cox is a Democrat. Roy Barnes (the former Governor who brought these machines in) is a Democrat.

The Democrats in Georgia had been in control of state government for 134 years when these machines came in.

[Maine-i-acs]

2. "Trust, but Verify"

Get some real, unbiased polling of how people voted, and compare it to what the 'voting machines' produce.

'Voting Machine" should be a device that records votes cast by people making the votes. A 'Voting Machine" is not a machine that does the voting for you! (or for anyone else)

[LittleApple81]

31. I agree with this statement. But will we be able to demand it?

I think the Republicans thing the voting machines are made to get the votes for them.

[creativelcro]

3. 4 counties use TS machines

There are only 4 counties with TS machines... Many others have optical scans, and Diebold uses the easily hackable GEMS to accumulate the votes.
http://www.calvoter.org/votingtech/directory.html

One could do some stats to see if there is ANY correlation with machine type across counties... -C

[Eloriel]

33. Optical scans by Diebold are no better than Touchscreens

Same software base.

Eloriel

[creativelcro]

35. that's what

I said, I think :) -CV

[dfong63]

37. but optical scan means an auditable paper trail

[rucky]

4. If Mendicino Cnty Goes Pub...

Then you'll know it's a fix.

[ParanoidPat]

22. Or Santa Cruz County.....

.....for that matter! :evilgrin:

[movonne]

5. I have been thinking the same thing since the polls took a change

[shance]

8. Our instincts are usually on about these things

I also think when it comes to our current leadership, I believe it benefits us much more to be skeptical and wary than to give any further benefits of doubt.

[La_Serpiente]

6. I think the Enron thing will finish him

I think the Enron thing will finish him. I didn't think the woman or Nazi thing would, but the Enron thing will put him in the grave.

[shance]

9. Enron is irrelevant when we are not counting the votes. Thats my point.

for showing the inaccuracy of the polls as potentially setting a mindset in Californians that Schwartzenegger has won, when in fact, he may very well NOT HAVE WON, and we perhaps will never know due to the electronic voting systems that are not auditable, because there is no tangible paper trail and the electronic data can be easily manipulated.

In other words, 'Houston, we have a problem'.

In essence, this is a virtual recall without ANY evidence to back up the results.

Its really not even a legitimate election, because there is no way to know if a fair election is ocurring.

[Timefortruth]

26. But will it matter for the "recall Arnold" drive

Which should start 10/13

[Old and In the Way]

7. A few weeks back, it looked good for Davis and Bustamonte.....

then the polling results changed, radically. I hope that there is a real effort to exit poll because we need to see audit the results, I think.

[shance]

10. Remember what happened to VNS exit polling in 2002?

They shut it down, took it off the air waves, never to return.

VNS then filed for bankruptcy and sealed the records of the 2002 election for about a year. Then, lo and behold, they recently unsealed them.

[DEMActivist]

12. But they did NOT unseal the important races

including the Senate and Governor races.

[shance]

13. Thanks DA*** I didnt know that!

Wow. Does the media give us any honest information?

[creativelcro]

15. Links to VNS info?

Any links to the VNS, unsealed information ? Thanks. -C

[shance]

19. No idea. Try google -ing***

n/t

[DEMActivist]

32. Sorry, I googled it for you

But when I clicked on the link, it locked my computer down. Twice - 2 different urls.

I'm not going back for another try. :tinfoilhat:

[creativelcro]

36. Thanks...

I asked because I could not come up with anything by Googling (yes, got the link of death :)... I just thought the person who mentioned it had an old bookmark with the source etc... -CV

[zeemike]

14. My guess is that the fix is in

And we shall know Tuesday night when they announce the Arnold as governor.
But the truth is that it is too late to do anything about it. The only question is now what do we do about it. And more importantly than that, what do we do abut the national election to which California is just a dry run.

[shance]

20. Yep.

Probably important to keep track of all events leading up to Tuesday as well.

[mlawson]

16. A 'fix' is not necessary.

"Celebrity power" is all the repukes need, and they have it. How else did Sonny Bono get elected over and over?? How did Clint Eastwood get elected in Monterey? How else did Ronnie get elected in the 60s, and then twice in the 80s??

I tell you, people in the middle, who are non-political, vote for those candidates they LIKE.... As maddeningly stupid as that is to US, it's what they do. If the Dems in CA knew that Ah-nuld was going to run, why didn't they run a celeb, too???

[shance]

18. Is it celebrity power, or probably the power (and wealth) of Republicans

Each person you mentioned was a Republican.

Ronald Reagan and Sonny Bono - I would doubt their "celebrity status" although you could be right, was the defining factor for their victory. I would be inclined to think the huge vast wealth and power of the Republican party was their ticket in the door.

Ronnie and Sonny, however likable they both were, were never truly stars like Clint Eastwood or even Arnold for that matter. In my opinion they were B at best.

[mlawson]

24. Pete Wilson couldn't get re-elected; Michael Huffington, despite

his wealth could not swing it. They were not celebs, and more importantly, they were not LIKABLE.

It really is that simple, I think, and I used the word 'simple' also to mean the voters.

[shance]

28. I agree thats true. I think name recognition helped

as well.

[rock]

17. I don't know about the fix, but the polls are innaccurrate

IMO the 'celebrity factor' cannot be successfully filtered out. So I say the polls are badly biased in favor of Arnold. (People will say they'll vote for him but in fact will not).

[Design8edGrouch]

21. a possible solution

I've been thinking about this since election night 2000 and I am convinced that the only solution for rigged voting machines is to slightly give up the right to privacy in voting. By this I mean--cast your vote at your precinct. Make it obvious that you are writing down your sign-in number, the time according to the official clock at the site and also the machine type and it's identifying number. Then, as quickly as possible and before the polls close, email the local or state Democratic Headquarters. Give them your name, address, who you voted for, and the polling place particulars. Make the subject line, either the Democrat that you voted for in general elections or in the recall case--I voted NO on the recall." Although it won't be official, it is a paper trail and it will be enough to cast doubt upon the official counts, if need be. And if it isn't needed, the paper trail can be destroyed without using any of the information.
One more thing, If you happen to be polled by one of the polling groups, lie. Let the Repukes think that they won't have to steal the election and maybe they won't steal it enough. And if you can get by with it--"vote early and vote often." Only kidding, I think.

[rucky]

25. or just vote absentee

[Maine-i-acs]

30. That didn't help in Florida 2000

A lot of absentee ballots are probably still in the trunk of Jeb's car.

[shance]

29. Those are good points. Definitely a way to track it.

And yet, all we need is a simple paper ballot to track the votes, which is so easy to implement and install.

[angka]

23. it's too early to speculate about this.

and with armies of trolls waiting to pounce on the slightest hyperbole re:BBV, i'd suggest caution.

[dbt]

27. One question: has Zogby done a poll on this?

If not, the rest of them have neither a check nor a balance.

:freak:
dbt

(Yes, the fix is in. You have only to look at the recent 70 percent delusion regarding 911 = Saddam to see it: "If it's on the news, it must be true.")

[Eloriel]

34. Somebody needs to get ahold of those poll results -- ALL of them

Davis had the ole mo until, suddenly, just about 2 days ago and then it was all Arnold. However, one small comment on MSNBC said that there was another poll and it showed wildly different results.

I believe that the polls favoring Arnold have been manipulated AND that this is a classic vote suppression technique as well as the set up for a stolen election.

We all know about Diebold, but don't forget that ES&S has produced a lot of interesting, um, anomalies too. Between all Diebold's machines and all ES&S's, a good bit of the state is covered.

I'd also suggest that Californians line up a few statisticians to go over things and pore over every precinct.


Eloriel

[WaterDog]

38. Yes.

I remember a couple weeks ago seeing Frank Luntz on Hardball. He said he wanted to make a prediction that day that whatever the last polls said before the election, Schwarzenegger would come out 3-4% higher in the election. WTF? BBV!!