I KNOW That There Is No God! Here's Why.

[DistressedAmerican]

Bush still breathes.

Bush still stands.

Bush still walks.

Bush still has power.

Bush is still rich.

Bush's parents also still doing all of the above.

IN SHORT:

Bush has not been SMOTE!

Any God worth his salt would have killed the bastard and his entire evil family years ago. I think a bolt of lightening would do the job quite nicely.

OK, Maybe I am wrong. Maybe He does exist but fears we will invade heaven of he rids us of this evil, sociopath! If this is indeed the case:

God, Now is your time. They still haven't the resources to come after you. Strike him down! Show me some of that old shool (testament) WRATH!

[Ron Green]

1. Well, He works in mysterious ways, you know....

Maybe the smiting is just around the corner.

[highplainsdem]

34. If he gets a "life review," as many people who've had near-death

experiences report, then he'll get to experience the effects of his words and actions on others, everyone he's affected, as well as reviewing his own experiences. After what he's done in 5 catastrophic years as president, his life review should be hell. Which is just what he deserves.

[MisterP]

2. notice how * is never out when it's not sun and blue skies?

[FreedomAngel82]

17. True, true

[Lerkfish]

3. LOL...well, maybe Bush is a godsend...consider

if the neocons had someone as charming and personable and intelligent as Clinton working for them instead of monkeyboy....

I think the utter incompetence and high visibility of it may work against the neocon objectives in the long run.


at least we can only hope.

[no name no slogan]

4. Like God honestly gives a shit what people post about her on web forums

[FreedomAngel82]

20. I prefer

It. In the old testament someone asked who God is and God replied: "I Am." But Christ always called him "Father" which is all confusing. :shrug:

[no name no slogan]

39. Aw, great now we're sposed ta listen to what HE says

what next, "Love Thy Neighbor?"

[StellaBlue]

22. I've been telling people for YEARS

That Jesus is going to return on the Internet.

[Shoeempress]

5. Perhaps Chimpster's existence is proof that Satan actually exists.

[Marnieworld]

6. I believe the disaster was proof enough

Either God is a useless observer like all of us, incompetent and without any power to stop horrible things from happening, or he/she is an asshole that allows or causes these horrible things to happen for his/her own reason and we are meant to suffer for them ignorant of why.

I really don't know how else to think of it. I'm sure many will be upset with these thoughts but really truly, without saying any "He works in mysterious ways" nonsense how can you say that there is some deity in charge worthy of love and worship? God is love? Well god let people die all over the South. No prayers were answered by the people who begged for mercy and continue to beg.

[Modem Butterfly]

12. I think that "God has a plan" is among the cruelest phrases...

...in the English language.

I had a cousin who drank himself to death at the age of 16 (he passed out and choked). His friends had sought to conceal the death by making it look like he had been carjacked, even filing a phony police report. I will never forget the look on my aunt's face every time someone told her it was all part of some mysterious plan we can't know. My aunt looked like she was being stabbed every single time.

I was raised an atheist. The idea of deity doesn't hold much weight or much mystery to me. Still, I surprised myself years later, after having a friend die at the WTC on 9/11 when I almost lost it responding to another god-planner type. I said, "Maybe YOU want to worship a god whose grand design requires putting human beings through a fucking concrete blender, but don't assume the rest of us do,"

[StellaBlue]

21. Another thing that chaps my hide (sorry if I sound a bit Dr Phil!)

Is 'it was a miracle!'.

I've heard so many NEWSCASTERS say this... like about that Boy Scout who was lost in Utah and then recovered...

And it's so RIDICULOUS and INAPPROPRIATE for a supposedly objective newscasrer to say.

My question always is:

'So, if it was a miracle that the one baby survived the plane crash, what was it for the other 298 people?'

They can never answer that one except with the 'mysterious ways' BS.

:eyes:

[Marnieworld]

24. Or when people thank god and

it's a situation where all thanks should go to all of the human beings who helped bring about the "miracle." For instance when modern science provides fertlity treatments and care for premies and then the proud parents of a new litter of babies thanks "God" and not the team of doctors, nurses, and scientists that made it all possible.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. What a sad story

The thing you have to remember as well about God is God gave us freewill. God didn't make us mindless robots. We all have choices and consequences to make. For example with Satan he used to be an angel but Satan rebelled and used his freewill to go against God and all that, so God told him adios. It's all about choice and consequences. With your friend sadly he made the choice to drink himself to death. My grandfather died of lung cancer a few months ago (late July a few days after my birthday *sniff*) and my grandfather made the choice to smoke. He smoked cigars and pipe's and everything just caught up with him. I at first was really angry with God for taking my grandfather away but after getting a clear mind I remembered how my grandfather used to smoke and all that. I'm surprised my grandma hasn't had anything bad happen to her with her health since she used to be a big chain smoker. I guess it depends on the person's body and how we're all made differently and stuff.

[theHandpuppet]

27. And what choices did those dead babies have...

... the ones now laying about the streets of New Orleans?

[Modem Butterfly]

28. He was my cousin

He was sixteen years old. His friends panicked because they didn't want to get caught and didn't do anything to stop him from choking. They let his parents, and the town, think he had been carjacked and kidnapped for a very long seventy-two hours.

But what does that have to do with God's great master plan? Nothing. Just like 9/11, and New Orleans, and the Holocaust, and an infinite number of catastrophies, tragedies and calamities writ small and large. If there is a deity that uses human misery as cogs in a larger machine, that deity is not worthy of worship.

[DistressedAmerican]

53. The Poor Folks That Died Because They Could Not Get Out Had No Choice.

Act Of God You Know!

[Pastiche423]

96. Let's see...

"God" gave me freewill to be abducted, tortured, raped and left paralyzed for life because...?


I had not responded in religious threads until now. But this load of "god giving freewill, miracles happen and the one that truly burns my butt.... "God has a reason for..." has me over the edge.

Opiate for the fucking masses!

[Tafiti]

115. Sorry, but that's far too simplistic.

My mother was one of the most devout Christians I have ever known. She had the utmost faith that God would heal her of her lung cancer, but, alas, she died - and fast. Oh, and she never once touched a cigarette in her entire life, nor was she ever exposed to any second-hand. God loves his children, yeah.

All I heard from my dad and the other church folk was, "God delights in the death of his saints." All I could think was, "Well then, what a selfish fucking bastard." That may sound harsh, but I was an already an atheist, so I knew that it was just one of those "shit happens" type of things and didn't try out some silly religious rationalization, which is just that - silly. At least she lived until I was 22. It could've been worse. That's the way I look at it.

Anyway. You should start a website. Instead of godhatesfags.com, it will be godhatessmokers.com.

[theHandpuppet]

26. Listen up, Marnieworld!

You will worship and love God until He is pleased or suffer eternal torment in the pit of hell forever and ever!!! Or you can love and worship God and He still may make you suffer horribly, maybe die!

It's your choice. After all, God doesn't like it when we play the blame game.

:sarcasm:

[Marnieworld]

30. I wonder how many of those floating bodies were churchgoers?

I wonder how many prayers there were from rooftops? Or the darkened hell of the SuperDome or the convention center or the airport or the...fuck. I just can't fucking take it all anymore.

[OldEurope]

7. Don´t panick!

:toast:

[StellaBlue]

8. Here's how I knew - Crimson Tide

I knew there was no 'God' (as taught to me by our culture, anyway) when I realized that a merciful, intelligent-designing, loving, all-powerful, supremely perfect deity would not have designed women to bleed for 7 days a month in order to be fertile. WTF is THAT about?!

Doesn't sound like intelligent design to me.

I can't wait until it is scientifically eradicated. I suspect this has been possible for decades, but, for some reason, our little birth control packets still mercifully allow 7 blank days so our Aunt from Alabama can come to visit.

If this god was so intelligent, we would just have an egg sit there until it got fertilized, not be shed every month. Nevermind the whole concept. Until I realized how you got pregnant, I thought women just *decided* when they would have a baby, and that was all that was necessary. :rofl:

Understandably, I have been a little miffed at 'nature' since.

[Marnieworld]

11. also you can be infertile but still get your "friend"

How is that intelligence?

[StellaBlue]

14. haha

:crazy:

[faithfulcitizen]

36. so true, and so unfunny.

[mccoyn]

9. Perhaps he is on vacation.

Running the universe, listening to everyones prayers and answering them in mysterious ways is hard work. He works hard.

[cynatnite]

10. It tells me that true evil exists

Has nothing to do with god, IMO

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Yes, that too

[Selatius]

13. Why should God have to do our work for us???????

If it is true that God gave us free will in addition to the gift of thought and reason, then I would submit he has already given the tools necessary. We just collectively did not want to fix the problem, figuratively.

[theHandpuppet]

29. If God wants all the credit and adoration

Then he can bloody well pitch in like the rest of us.

When the least of us -- the poor, the elderly, the babies -- have to pay with their lives for the failure of government or someone else's sins, that's just mindlessly cruel. If there are consequences then perhaps its time for those in charge to start paying them.

[Selatius]

37. Who says he wants credit and adoration?

If what I said previously was true, he already pitched in his part. We just didn't hold up our end.

Things such as poverty, hatred, and war are things that are of our own doing to each other. Again, why should God clean up a mess God didn't create???

[Modem Butterfly]

42. Then why worship the heavenly handwasher?

Honestly, if he can't be bothered to save people from places like Auschwitz and Rwanda, why worship him/her/it/them?

[Selatius]

45. Well, God doesn't require you to worship

I believe in God as revealed through nature and reason, but I believe God gave us enough to overcome the problems that face us. We just have to choose to do so as a people, and if God were to step in and do it for us, God effectively destroys the gift of free will originally given us. We will have learned nothing if we don't do it ourselves.

I don't claim to know everything, but for myself, I believe the purpose in life is to learn and grow as a person, but I cannot do that if I'm not allowed to succeed or fail on my own. I consider him "the Divine Watchmaker." He laid it all down billions of years ago. The rest is just a product of that act.

[Modem Butterfly]

49. I didn't say s/he/it/they did

I believe the purpose in life is to learn and grow as a person, but I cannot do that if I'm not allowed to succeed or fail on my own.

And if you happen to take out six billion innocent people in your failure, as Hitler did, then at least you learned and grew as a person.

Yikes.


Edited for grammar.

[Selatius]

52. Now you're twisting my words

What Hitler learned or did with his life was of his own choosing, not God. His war killed 50,000,000 people in Europe. I would submit he didn't even want to learn. He just held onto his stale, idiotic, destructive ideology. Rather than realizing that mutual cooperation would be the best choice for all, he chose the opposite route. That was his failing.

With free will, you can have people like Hitler and Stalin, but on the other hand, you can also have people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr., and I chose the latter.

[Modem Butterfly]

54. And this is okay?

I would submit he didn't even want to learn.

Then why was it okay to kill 56,000,000 by letting him try?

With free will, you can have people like Hitler and Stalin, but on the other hand, you can also have people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr., and I chose the latter.

But that's just it: You don't get a choice. Under this theology, the only one who has that choice is the deity itself. And the onus for Hitler, New Orleans, Rwanda, and everything else is on that deity.

[Selatius]

60. No, I don't think what Hitler did was okay

Then why was it okay to kill 56,000,000 by letting him try?

I would've chosen to oppose him if I existed back then. I don't believe murder gets us anywhere regardless if it's done by individuals or if it's done by dictators and tyrants on a mass scale.

But that's just it: You don't get a choice. Under this theology, the only one who has that choice is the deity itself. And the onus for Hitler, New Orleans, Rwanda, and everything else is on that deity.

Let me try to sum up your argument as best as possible. God gives man free will. Man decides to wage war and inflict poverty on himself. It's God's fault for giving him free will in the first place. Is that the gist of the argument or close to it?

[Modem Butterfly]

62. Well, it was a learning experience, right?

God gives man free will. Man decides to wage war and inflict poverty on himself. It's God's fault for giving him free will in the first place. Is that the gist of the argument or close to it?

Actually, it's more like "God gives humans free will. God also gives humans terrible storms that kill thousands of people over a period of days, followed by plague and pestilence that kill more folks and ratchet up the misery index for countless others. Then God says, 'Not my fault,'"

[Selatius]

98. More like a relearning experience.

Hurricanes are a natural part of nature. They help to keep the atmosphere in balance just like lightning, so they serve a vital purpose. They're there for a reason, not for the purpose of intentionally inflicting misery on humans. They are a component in an engine, if you will, and they've been around longer than humans. I don't question the existence of things such as hurricanes and earthquakes and deadly lightning or any other natural process of nature. I accept them as is because that's really the only thing I can do.

Setting up an evacuation plan that's actually functional IS a process of learning, of coming to terms with the situation, something politicians failed to do. You learn and grow from it, and we see compassion pouring in for the victims, something I would take as further evidence of God. Although some number of people will die, which is very likely with these huge natural events, the fact is without compassion and reason many, many more would die...needlessly so as is the case with what's left of New Orleans.

I would blame certain humans for failing to look out for the best interests of everybody. Those hurricanes are a fact of life, and you either deal with them, or you get in trouble with them. Guess what? Some people who had the power didn't want to deal. That's not God's fault.

Perhaps a little story:

Years ago, a company decided to build a railroad track across a lonely piece of land. The trains ran for years without incident like clockwork doing its small part to keep an economy moving. One day, a deaf and blind man being led by another (Bush, FEMA, take your pick) is left on the track even though the lights were flashing and the gates were down, and the other person knew what was coming and had the power to act but did not do so. No, he was on break. The deaf-blind man dies when struck by the train. Is the company who built the track and ran the trains at fault? I wouldn't say so.

[Modem Butterfly]

127. It's the fault of whatever omniscient/omnipotent deity is around

If you believe in a deity that is omniscient and omnipotent (i.e., all knowing and all powerful) then anything that happens becomes the fault of that deity. Or put another way, if you build a railroad track, place a train moving at top speed on one section of track, and then take a deaf and blind man and place him on that track just in time for the train to hit him, then yes, you are to blame.

[onager]

100. I'm tired of the Gandhi/King auto-response, too

For those who have forgotten, both men were shot to death. If I wanted to draw some sort of Cosmic Lesson from that, I suspect it would come not from Jesus but from Chairman Mao: "Power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

And people who play the Gandhi Religious Card also seem to forget who killed him: a religious fanatic.

They also never mention what happened after Gandhi's death: India split strictly on religious lines into 2 countries. Hindus versus Muslims. In one of the largest mass human movements ever, millions were forced to leave their homes. The mass exodus left behind thousands who were brutally killed, raped, starved, or simply left to die along the roads.

No matter how bad things get, you can almost always count on religion to make them worse.

[Sparkman]

106. Motives are GREED, LUST, FEAR. The excuse is religion, or creed or race.

If you believe in the spirit, eternal life:
If all you have is of this world, then you would be of all men most miserable. But you are not of this world, for I have chosen you out of this world, therefore the world hateth you. Jesus

[DistressedAmerican]

59. Piss Poor Maintainance Plan...

Is the warranty on his work up? Did we never get one to begin with.

Tell that God of yours to come speak to me. I have seen the Bible. Used to talk to folks all the time. Even years after he created them. Let him send me a burning bush. I have some questions I'd like to ask his all powerfullness.

[DistressedAmerican]

57. Because As I Understand It, He Is Love. I Would Not Allow Those I Loved

to suffer when I could end that suffering even if they had the ability to do so themselves.

To me that is love not standing idly by and saying. "Hey, I taught you to fish. Get busy,"

That is not a God I could ever respect.

[theHandpuppet]

69. HE DOES.

Jesus was once asked what the greatest commandment was. His answer is recorded in Matthew 22:37-40:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38. This is the first and great commandment.

[trotsky]

55. So innocents must suffer

as a consequence of others not using their "gifts" appropriately?

What a mixed-up system!

[Greyhound]

79. Ummm, The book I read says thought and reason are a curse

and the reason we were evicted from the garden.

[Selatius]

108. Well, I don't believe in the Old Testament

Just because a book says so does not mean I'm going to believe it. That book also condemns people to hell who eat shellfish or work on the Sabbath, which most Americans do, not to mention acts of murder, genocide, and other barbarism.

[theHandpuppet]

15. Silly!

God only smites tens of thousands of poor people, including children and babies, because he's mad at gay people and Planned Parenthood.

Didn't you get the memo?

[enid602]

16. **

Bush could be the anti-christ, which would refute your theory.

[faithfulcitizen]

43. i was thinking that he actuallly might be the anti-christ

[newswolf56]

18. It's probably not the invasion of heaven god fears. It's the...

consequences of the forcible imposition of "democracy." You know: looting, suicide bombing, kidnappings, beheadings, destruction of women's rights and ultimately theocracy -- the antithesis of the allegedly divine gift of "free will."

[tom_paine]

19. God didn't smite Hitler, SHe won't smite Bushler

n/t

[ck4829]

25. She's waiting

Why smite 1 person now when you can wait and have the collective smite?

[DistressedAmerican]

61. Waiting For What? Smite Their Asses NOW. Right Now They Are Smiting Us!

[ComerPerro]

31. Bush is the entire reason that I don't believe in Karma

[drfresh]

76. Karma might take a while

Maybe its just been building up and will all come crashing down at once.

[sniffa]

32. how can ace be both 1 and 11?

[StopTheMorans]

35. this deserves its own thread

:thumbsup:

[DistressedAmerican]

63. LOL! "What Kind Of God Would Allow That?"

"I am the greatest missionary of all time!"

Beware of PBS...

:rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. Egypt got frogs and locusts - we get Bush and Cheney n/t

[Wizard777]

40. You are wrong. I have seen Him with mine own eye. Beyond beautiful is God

But I respect His gift to you of freewill. That is your personal decission to make.

Mene Mene Tekel Upharison is the writing on the wall Rove now builds.

[Modem Butterfly]

44. You saw God?

Where was that motherfucker last Monday?

[onager]

46. Heh. You remind me of an earlier natural disaster...

During the horrific Johnstown (PA) Flood in 1889, a newspaper sent out a new reporter.

The editor warned the guy repeatedly that the story of the flood itself was powerful, and he shouldn't try to over-dramatize it in his writing. He should just let the facts speak for themselves.

Unfortunately, the cub reporter couldn't resist temptation. He filed a really gooey story that began with the words: God looks down on Johnstown tonight...

His pissed-off editor immediately fired back a telegram: Forget flood. Interview God.

[Wizard777]

89. LMAO! Thank You.

I'll file that under the Yin & Yan of Drama & Comedy.

[beam me up scottie]

48. Inquiring minds...

:rofl:

[Wizard777]

74. I'm a big fan of Divine comedy too. He has a wonderous sence of humor.

:) His laughter echo's throughout eternity.
:rofl:

[Wizard777]

81. I think he was in California or a birthday party. I try not to follow him.

But God was in His Heaven as Always. You'll not get in there singing like that. ;)

[Modem Butterfly]

88. Sitting on a big, fluffy crowd as 10,000 or more people slowly drowned

Buffing his nails perhaps while countless others saw their lives just wash away.

What a monster you worship.

[DistressedAmerican]

65. Most People That Calim To See God, See A Padded Room Instead.

His "gift" of free will? Free will to slaughter innocents?

Not much of a gift if you ask me.

Also a total cop out. God does lots of good and gets all the credit. But, when bad happens it is because of free will and His mysteroius ways (our fault). That I find a bit messed up to say the very least. All glory to God!

You folks that believe in this entity should get a better argument worked out. This one is just not convincing.

If I am wrong, then let God show himself to me. I have some questions...

[StopTheMorans]

41. so was there a God beforehand who allowed all of the natural disasters

/bad political events/wars/etc..., and did he just now cease to exist because of Bush, or was there never a God, and, if so, then where does this post fit into that equation :shrug:

[Wizard777]

47. It is far better to place OUR problems in God's Hands than it is to place

them upon His Head. His Crown is Glory. It is perfectly acceptable to play the blame game with President Bush. Our Father will not play our childish games with us. God's Creation is Perfect and without fault. destruction is the evil domain of Ahriman.

[beam me up scottie]

50. How about solving our own problems instead of waiting for

a deity to do it?

You sound like condi telling people to be patient.

[Wizard777]

66. It never hurts to Help. God helps those who help themselves. He blesses

those who help others. This is the only way I know how to explain this. You have to think of this as a snowball that actually stands a chance in hell. Because God helped us make it. He has provided us with trillions of unique snowflakes on the mountation top. We gather several million of them together and compact them into that One cohessive mass. Our Little Snowball. We place it on the ground God has created for us to stand upon and give it a little push. The Gravity of God's world in motion will pull it down the mountain side. God will make it bigger, better, and stronger with each turn. Because he is the Axis of Creation. When that Boulder of a snowball reaches the base of the mountain. Sisyphus will spend the rest of eternity trying to push it back up the moutain side to keep the poor souls of hell from having that glass of ice water. So lets hope Sisyphus gets pounded and plowed over in our attempt to share Gods gifts.

It's our Sorrows, Frustrations, Angers, and Hate we need to place in God's hands for now. When he gives them back to us they shall be Joy, Contentment, Peace, and Love. He is the Almighty that overcomes all things. He is the One I love above all things. I give all things to him to make better.

Amen

Magus Amathion

[Modem Butterfly]

67. Sisyphus was ancient Greek theology

You seem to be talking about the Judeo/Xian god...

[DistressedAmerican]

70. Tell God I Have Been Workig My Ass Off To Rid Us Of This Guy.

Time for Him to help me. I'm helping myself.

Where is my backup?

[Modem Butterfly]

51. "God's creation is perfect and without fault."

Guarantee void in Louisiana.

[Tafiti]

119. His Crown is Glory?

I thought his Crown was Thorns! :shrug:

[DistressedAmerican]

64. No, Never Existed. Just A Clincher On The Argument!

If He did exist, as far more profound thinkers than myself have noted, we would need to kill him.

[EnfantTerrible]

56. This is our mess, not Gods

For better or worse... we created this mess. We as a society have given rise to the Bush's of the world. Perhaps not the community here on DU, but we as a Nation have allowed this to happen. It's our mess to clean up, not God's.

[DistressedAmerican]

68. You Mean Our "Nation Under God"? That Nation?

The one where God gets all of the credit for the good things that happen. But, the bad is our own fault.

Does not exist and if He did, I'd want to punch his cruel ass!

[Algorem]

58. somebody must be supposed to arrest him.somebody's not doing their

job.

[drfresh]

71. God has better things to do

than meddle in the affairs of mankind. Who knows what they are, but I don't believe in a God that directly interferes with our world.

[DistressedAmerican]

77. Well Then Why The Hell Do We Need His Ass? Why do people pray?

If God does not intervene in the affairs here on earth, why the hell are all those people praying?

Does not seen that this absentee God you speak of is inclined to listen to their bitching.

I thought He worked miracles, healed the sick, etc. No?

[drfresh]

113. People pray for many reasons

Why are people praying? I dunno. Perhaps for their own comfort, for the comfort and relief of others, for a sense of connectedness (to the "divine" or others) and belonging, to ask for sense in a senseless world...to express thanks for being alive, to ask for forgiveness of sin, self-improvement, the elimination of human suffering...

Maybe some people pray begging that God will intervene and "do" what they ask, but I realize that I'm not going to get a postcard or return-receipt from Him, and that He isn't going to grant my wishes like a magic genie. People pray -- at least I do -- to try and connect with something greater than themselves.

Supposedly Jesus worked miracles and healed the sick as you said. I've read the gospel and its a wonderful story, of course there really is no proof by any scientific standard that a man named Jesus walked around performing miracles as the "son of God". It's a matter of faith. I try to differentiate the story of Jesus and God. For me, God's existence is seen when looking at images of the Hubble, ideas about cosmology, images in nature, seeing a moment or act of pure good/love, etc.

Your thoughts?

[michael_1166]

72. Look at some pictures from the Hubble space telescope

and then tell me why God should have a special interest in planet Earth, let alone the USA.

[DistressedAmerican]

78. Billions Of "His Children" Are Down Here. That's Why.

Who abandons their children to be tormented while they worry about the rest of the universe.

If we really are God's children as people so love to tell me, why the hell would he let us suffer. Is He an abusive parent?

[michael_1166]

101. I can't tell you...

my personal definition of God probably differs too much from yours ... I believe that all life currently present in the universe constitutes God on some higher level. We're not separated from God, or from the universe/nature, we're part of it. Of course we aren't God. But we know in our hearts what's right or wrong and it is in our responsibility to change the world for the better. I bet we never will see a benign bearded face in the skies claiming to be God - that's a fairytale. Or a new mind control trick by the neocons...

[drfresh]

114. My theory

My theory is that to live is to suffer. We're here on Earth and its not that great a place. We're a bunch of bumbling atoms and self-reproducing organisms at the mercy of our own fucked up world.

God would "let" such a thing happen because there's more to existance than just life on earth and then dying. If you believe that this is all there is, its a pretty bleak outlook. We're all as good as dead.

[beam me up scottie]

116. Arrogance, much ?

"bleak outlook", eh?

Another religious meme based on fear, I'm afraid.

There's nothing "bleak" about making the most of THIS life because you won't get the chance to do it again.

It's much more noble than going through life basing all of your actions on some point system that will get you to the pearly gates.

Or only doing right because you're scared to go to the "bad place" when you die.

When I do a good deed, it's because it's the RIGHT thing to do, not because some old white guy on a cloud is keeping score.

How about the bleak outlook of all of those children who are suffering unbearably at the hands of what they believe is a malignant and evil deity for sins they never committed?

[salvorhardin]

117. ''There's nothing "bleak" about making the most of THIS life...''

It's a lot more fun too. :-)

[beam me up scottie]

118. Oh, so THAT'S why we're always laughing...

I thought it was because we were the evil spawn of satan.
:rofl:

[drfresh]

132. I try to avoid it, how about yourself?

I don't see anything that I just said as arrogant, the name of the subject was My Theory. Would you prefer every sentence from my mouth to be prefixed with "in my most humble and respectful opinion"?

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that if this is all there is, then all of your fun memories of life aren't going to come with you when you die. Once you pass it would be as if you never existed at all, which to me would seem meaningless.

And I have no fear in my beliefs. When I do a good deed it is for the same reason, not because some "old white guy on a cloud is keeping score", please don't assume that I am living on a point system to get to heaven.

As for your last sentence, I'm not even sure what you are saying. Would you like to clarify? Cheerio.

[Don Claybrook]

73. You're thinking too concretely here, DA

God is a useful symbol to "point toward" the transcendent. By definition, God can only get you so far, and then god becomes an impediment. If I can talk about God, then the "God" concept does not transcend human experience. The concept of god can be a useful concept, I think, if the adherants of that god will eventually learn what that god is trying to tell them. At that point, they move right along. Of course, this is not the state of religion in the US, which is why religion is plagued with so many problems.

PS: Try the eastern concept of an impersonal god. It makes more sense, unless you go the completely god-free route, which is also valid. :)

[MsTryska]

75. Well I have to disagree.

I don't believe God is a smiting god. (i know the old testament says "he" is, but whatever)


I believe God is one of Karmic Retribution.


And I think Katrina is an example that there is a God.


I'm sorry she demanded so much blood from us tho.

[DistressedAmerican]

80. Could You Explain This Karmic Retribuion In The Context Of Katrina?

What did New Orleans do to piss the guy off?

Shouldn't this Karmic retribution be brought down on Bush and his ilk. He certainly has himself the worst Karma of just about anyone on the planet.

Karma is supposed to punish evil and reward good. Right?

I did not see Katrina coming when I made this. But, it illustrates my point:

[MsTryska]

87. Well.....

New orleans certainly didn't deserve it, but we've been going down a very bad path for a long time, and something BIG had to happen. as David Brooks put it - anti- 9/11.


Our Administration has been puffing America up and trying to meddle in every possible affair, and putting all humans at risk for a good long while.


Katrina came through and in one fell swoop she tore open the facade:

America (under Bush) isn't the shining savior she's supposed to be.

Bush's America isn't even prepared to save it's own citizens in a natural calamity.

Bush's policies have helped in making horrific storms a normal event.

Bush's policies have kept cities from being adequately prepared

Bush's policies have made new orleans prone to flooding by ignoring the "tree-huggers"


race inequality, poverty, the environment, national security, and compassionate conservatism have all been busted wide open for everyone to see.


and that is far more damaging than any thunderstrike. a thunderstrike would have made him a martyr.

Katrina pulled his pants down.

[Modem Butterfly]

90. It would be a good argument if the Bush family or their interests...

...were personally affected. Unfortunately they weren't.

[MsTryska]

92. If you think strictly materially - no....

but that's direct vengeance that's kinda local, imo. best left to voodoo queens and dark witches.

We're talking about a global fall from grace. Which, at least imo, is priceless.


It doesn't matter how much money you have in the bank, if people would much rather spit on your grave than praise your life.

and if that's how your life ends - well your future lives are going to be spent paying the price.

[Modem Butterfly]

93. Not priceless

In fact, it cost at least $200 Billion and 10,000 lives. Excluding, of course, the cost of Iraq in blood and treasure.

Bush had nowhere to fall from grace, globally or otherwise. As far as most of the rest of the world is concerned, he'd fallen and couldn't get up as of early 2003.

[MsTryska]

95. well that's your opinion.

and you're welcome to it.

i'm not trying to convince you of anything.


Just stating my beliefs.

[DistressedAmerican]

91. Well If God's Best Plan For Punishing Bush Is To Destroy An American City,

how about he take that wrath to DC where it belongs. It is not like they were ready to do anything more effective there.

[MsTryska]

94. Well it's not really up to me, or you I guess

to decide we know better.


but imo - DC - wouldn't have made that much of an impact - sure there's lots of impoverished black people, there too - and it's the seat of power, but it's not the heartbeat of a nation.


The Gulf Coast - it holds a lot fo our Oil refineries - it has pipelines - it's a major shipping artery - and i don't think you'd disagree that oil, and commerce are America's true lifeblood.

[arwalden]

82. Do You Have Any Other Fonts?

Red text with a blue border clashes and is very difficult to read.

[DistressedAmerican]

84. This Graphic Is Old. I Never Go Back. Always Forward!

Much easier on the eyes in the full sized version.

[pbartch]

83. You are wrong......God does exist.

[DistressedAmerican]

85. Well, That Is A Cogent Argument! Faith Based Posting?

:shrug:

[arwalden]

86. Bwa-ha-ah-ha-ha-ha!

:thumbsup:

[onager]

97. Incredible gibberish about that gawd thingy in this thread.

Is this some sort of weird contest to see which Twue Bewiever can string together the greatest number of infantile platitudes and bumper-sticker philosophies?

When I read this stuff, I'm awfully proud to be an atheist.

[Wizard777]

120. If you haven't mastered Gibberish. Then try Algebra.

Al Jibbar also Al Gibbar was quite an adept Alchemist. In majic there is always method to the madness of the enlightened. The actual language of Gibberish is basically Algebra with letters instead of Numbers. In both you seek an unknown or unseen. Like God.
But I also apreciate the devilish Catch 22 in Atheism. It's also an accurate name for teh illusion of His creation. Atheistic. There was mytosis involved in His Asexual (Androdiotus) Creation. Once God created Himself. The only thing He had to create with or from was Himself. That is why God's creation appears to be without Him. That is because God is within His creation. More specifically the light within his Creation. The Creation of man was androgenous. In God's image. The two were as one. Male and female made he they. Then just as He divided Himself. Soto did He divide Adam and the other Kings of the other Paradises.

[onager]

121. Well, what you just typed is certainly gibberish.

Even I know where "algebra" came from, and it had nothing to do with "majic."

The word first appeared in the title of a text written by the famous Persian mathematician Khawarzmi. "al jaber" simply meant "something incomplete"...like an algebraic equation.

And far from any Woo-Woo majikal reasons, Khawarzmi explained EXACTLY why he wrote the treatise. As a few seconds of Googling shows:

...he wrote his algebra book to serve the practical needs of the people concerning matters of inheritance, legacies, partition, lawsuits and commerce.

[Modem Butterfly]

125. I think I figured out how he saw god...

:smoke:

[Pastiche423]

103. Prove it

[ArkDem]

99. The correct word would be smitten, I believe.

smite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smt)
v. smote, (smt) smit·ten, (smtn) or smote smit·ing, smites
v. tr.

To inflict a heavy blow on, with or as if with the hand, a tool, or a weapon.
To drive or strike (a weapon, for example) forcefully onto or into something else.
To attack, damage, or destroy by or as if by blows.

To afflict: The population was smitten by the plague.
To afflict retributively; chasten or chastise.
To affect sharply with great feeling: He was smitten by deep remorse.

[Iris]

102. Contrary to popular belief,

God doesn't exactly intervene in human affairs. Not in the way we wish.

[DistressedAmerican]

124. Well Then It Seems Your God Is A Waste Of My Time Then.

If He does nothing for us, what do we need Him for?

Just to avoid His punishment and eternal fire? Fuck that!

[Iris]

131. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion about God.

[Seeker30]

104. As a hypnotherapist that has done hundreds of past life regressions

Here is my take on this.

EVERYTHING is karmic related. People killed or hurt in natural disasters (or any disaster) unconsciously put themselves in that situation for various reasons. It is our own choosing. We chose to turn our backs on God, we chose to incarnate onto this planet, and we chose to have free will. Only the most loving God would allow such a thing.

[salvorhardin]

109. Oh my

It all makes perfect sense. It's the victim's fault. A woman gets raped? It's her fault. A black man gets lynched by the KKK? It's his fault. A child succumbs to SIDS? It's the kid's fault. Somebody, somewhere drops their toast and it falls on the floor peanut butter side down? It's their fault. They all turned their backs on the magic sky fairy. :sarcasm:

[Modem Butterfly]

129. It's also the perfect excuse not to do anything about it

We don't have to help the victims, we don't have to find the murderers, we don't have to prevent crimes or disasters. The great Karmic Wheel (TM) will resolve everything.

[onager]

112. That BS is the second cruelest thing I ever heard.

And remember, I'm a cold-hearted, cynical atheist, skeptic, and realist.

The most cruel thing I ever heard?

When I was in the Marines, we did a community outreach program for terminally ill children.

One day, some Ass-Ended Master Of The Spiritual Universe ventured the opinion that the kids had been reincarnated. And they were paying for their sins in a past life.

They were LITTLE KIDS. They were suffering and dying with things like cancer, and didn't know why.

Atheist etc. I may be, but I cannot even comprehend the mentality that could come up an idea so monstrous and inhuman.

That's about as close as I've ever come to physically attacking somebody on the spur of the moment. And I still wish I'd thrown that bastard out the nearest window.

[Modem Butterfly]

123. A Xian told me once that the Jews who died in the Holocaust...

...were burning in hell if they didn't accept Jesus Christ before they died. I foolishly asked about the children and he said, "They got the same fate, but if they were too young to understand the Gospel then they were spared. That was one way God used the Holocaust to work his will,"

:puke:

[Modem Butterfly]

122. That's just sick

People killed or hurt in natural disasters (or any disaster) unconsciously put themselves in that situation for various reasons.

Words fail me.

[DistressedAmerican]

126. Wow That Is Some Fucked Up Logic (If You Can Even Call It That).

Those people CHOSE to srarve to death? Are you NUTS?

Only the most loving God would allow tens of thousands to starve due to their own "choice" to be trapped like rats in a drowning city? WTF?

Easily one of the most off the mark posts I have ever seen here (and that is saying something)!

Way to blame the victims and still have God come out smelling like roses.

BTW - Past life regression is total BS at best. An outright scam at worst.

[BiggJawn]

130. "Past life regressions"?

Isn't that also referred to as "False Memory Syndrome"?

Yeah, I was a U-Boat Commander in MY "past life". That explains why I'm such a bug about keeping batteries charged and doors tightly closed....

[nini]

105. Well.. I could say there is based on the fact we're all together here

God inspired Skinner to create DU to bring all of us sensible folk together to fight Satan's work of W & Company!

:P

[Deja Q]

107. The Bible speaks OF the false prophet...

and * clearly fits a good deal of presented criteria.

I may have been skeptical before. But I am no longer.

Jesus WILL return.

[DistressedAmerican]

128. Call Me When He Shows His Face. I'm Waiting

Jesus will neither return. Nor was he resurrected.

[VOX]

110. An omnicient sky-god, with a long white beard and flowing robes?

An all-seeing, all-knowing old man on a golden throne, who sits and observes everything, and, when moved to do so, sends the occasional lightning bolt down on some earth-bound malefactor's head?

No, that's a Western kid's definition of God.

I prefer the Eastern "Tat vam asi" (thou art that, or you are it) approach: You "shine" the sun with your eyes. Your ears and brain "make" the music on the CD you're listening to. In a nutshell, you're the whole show -- each of us is a unique aperture through which the universe perceives itself. Jesus was onto this: "I and the Father are one." If he had lived in India, he would have simply been told, "Congratulations, son, you got it!"

And I'll stop right there, before I come off as a :hippie: who's :smoke: too much! :)

[salvorhardin]

111. Exactly

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
— Epicurus (341-270 BC)