CNN.com reports FEMA is going to give victims $2,000 debit cards....

[expatriot]

While I am not dissing the need. Yes, the victims are in need of cash... this is obviously a PR stunt to try and pay them off. Now how are they going to decide who is a victim and who isn't? At least a third of the evacuees lack adequate identification and how could you identify forged identification? - all it would have to have is a New Orleans, LA address on it This seems like it has the HUGE potential for abuse here.

[underpants]

1. "doing very well" indeed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/07/ubush.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/09/07/ixportaltop.html

[MSgt213]

2. Well let FEMA figure that out. Since they can't do anything else

[defiant1]

3. That's great in theory....

But I imagine that's going to be a logistical nightmare.

Wish em the best of luck.

[Roland99]

4. I see no reason to criticize this move.

These people need cash to afford a place to stay, acquire or use transportation, buy clothes, look for a new job, etc.

[DistressedAmerican]

7. I Am With You Roland! This Strikes Me As Bitching Just To Bitch.

:shrug:

[expatriot]

12. No, I am bitching because this - as everything else that has been done

is being done on the fly with no planning and now it is being done on the fly with Rovian fingerprints all over it. Are you telling me that there is no plan on how to provide for the needs of over a million displaced Americans in the event of such a catastrophe? If this was part of the plan, why didn't they "process" the evacuees at the very beginning and so they know exactly who is eligible for these cards and who is not. They don't even know who is where. It is up to private efforts to process information about who is where.

I think debit cards with cash reserves is a great idea, I am just very skeptical that an agency that doesn't have a clue about the identities of evacuees scattered around the nation is going to administer this program. So I am just bitching about this development in the whole scheme of this SNAFU.

[expatriot]

8. I am not criticizing their need. I am just curious as to how they think

they will be able to administer this program.

Also, it seems like the privatization of relief efforts. A band-aid approach.

[expatriot]

5. FEMA's payoff to Wal-Mart for "kinda doing it's job - at least a little" n

[Horse with no Name]

6. As long as these aren't linked to any future funds

or as long as there isn't a codicil that if they use the cards, they can forfeit their assets (land, etc), I think it is great.
But I would be leary that these people who are in dire need might end up losing their land if they use them.

[Balbus]

9. Anything that's done will be abused by someone...

But this doesn't sound like that bad of an idea at first glance.

[rwheeler31]

10. Why not cash?

They want to track these people and continue to tell us how awful tey are if they make a wrong choice.

[expatriot]

13. exactly. nt and probably some MNBA or other multi-national corporation

will get a fat contract to implement and run the program.

[Zynx]

17. You want to be carrying $2000 in bills?

[wellstone_democrat]

11. then they can report on "fraud" and "abuse"

and demonize people further---guess they are going to find the most suspicious guy they can, follow him until he buys a friggin TV set and make him poster boy for "irresponsibility"

mark my words



BTW, spend it where? In my little city these people are confined to an old af base. They leave, they are on their own. Why are they imprisoned??????

[MildyRules]

20. Are they imprisoned?

They cannot leave there?

[Blue_In_AK]

14. No offense to victims of 9/11

but are the victims of Hurricane Katrina going to get millions in settlements? No? I didn't think so.

[Swamp Rat]

15. Who cares if it is a PR stunt? I NEED FOOD AND SHOES AND PANTS!!!!!!

And FEMA hasn't offered us crap. Only the Red Cross is helping right now... now I leave to go stand in line ALL DAY again for aid. :(

[expatriot]

29. That sucks so much.... Swamp Rat. You know I love you.

But you bring up a great point.... debit cards don't make supplies MAGICALLY appear. You need real fucking shit down there.

P.S. I am getting trained with the Tucson Red Cross this weekend, will probably ship out next week!

[Swamp Rat]

38. Good. We need people who care to help New Orleans and the Gulf Coast n/t

[expatriot]

32. Swamp Rat... I have a question that you and you alone can answer.

I signed up for volunteeer training to help last week, training is this weekend. I see on their website that their disaster training classes are full and they aren't taking any more people. Now I don't know if these are all just people who want to help at the Tucson shelter or if these are people willing to relocate and go on a 3 week "tour" like I am.

Here is the question. I am taking an unpaid leave of absence from work for 3 weeks - and that is not a problem, it is what I want to do - my wife is the primary income earner and we can do without it for three weeks. But if there is a surplus of people willing to go on "tour" for 3 weeks and by me going I am just taking a space that would be filled by someone else, I think it may be better for me to stay home and donate my 3 weeks of wages or at least like 3/4 to 4/5 of it to a relief organization instead.

I know that LOGICALLY if there is a surplus of unskilled (meaning no medical/first responder training, construction, water systems, etc.) volunteer labor it would be more beneficial of me to stay home and just donate my wages but SELFISHLY and IRRATIONALLY it would be so much better for my soul and my heart to be there actually helping.

What is your take? The fact that you said your only assistance right now is coming from the Red Cross makes you the only expert I need to give me an opinion.

[Swamp Rat]

37. My take? ... Dude, I am an 'expert' in losing my home and belongings.

I am an expert in standing in lines all day long waiting for handouts.

I am an expert in smiling and saying thank you a thousand times.

I am expert in maintaining my dignity when I see people drive by in their new cars and nice clothes while I wait for aid to buy food and a pair of pants and shoes.

I am an expert in keeping myself happy even though the future looks dark.

You don't need my expertise in order to volunteer for the Red Cross. You just need to do it, if that is what you really intend. If you want a suggestion, how about go to New Orleans and help pick up thousands of bodies for a few months?

[expatriot]

40. Once again, I am sorry. Sometimes I use certain words

that I shouldn't and I don't realize how they will come across. My use of "expertise" was very ill-chosen. I did not mean it that way, It was hyperbole for "you're someone on the ground that has seen the red cross in action." I am sorry.

I understand that you are very stressed and you must come to DU looking for a release and all I have been doing the past few days is stressing you out even more. I feel like that annoying little jabber-box who means well but just can't help it. I will chill out. I am sorry.

Peace.

[WeRQ4U]

16. Wake up people. This is NOT a good idea.

This is just another attempt to dehumanize and discredit the people of New Orleans. This looks, superficially, as an attempt by FEMA to assist those that are suffering. But it ISN'T. What these people need is SHELTER, WATER, FOOD, WORK, and GUIDANCE. 2000 dollar debit cards will certainly end up producing squabbles, deaths, and MOST IMPORTANTLY..........another way for the administration to say "Look, we TRIED to help them. They are just too irresponsible to handle what we gave them."

It'll just be more fodder for the hateful masses to use to minimize the suffering and accountability.

Wake up. This sucks.

And before you flame me for ASSUMING that people with 2000 debit cards will be irresonsible and violent, let me say this: The squawler and destitue these people are living in would make it very hard to NOT engage in otherwise questionable behavior. AFter all, who wants to starve to death?

[Zynx]

18. They need money - they don't have any. Would you prefer cash?

Millions of dollars in loose currency are a lot more likely to cause problems than plastic.

[MildyRules]

21. Yeah, poor people

ALWAYS engage in "questionable" behavior when money is involved. (Sarcasm) Gee, thanks for your input.

[WeRQ4U]

22. Please actually READ the post before making comments about it.

Your comments make it seems as though you have no idea what I was getting at.

Lawlessness is a GIVEN in these types of situations. People who would normally not engage in certain behavior are FORCED to do so to survive. And, as stated in my post, I'm not criticizing them for doing so. (You missed that part).

By privatizing the relief efforts and giving people tangible currency instead of simply providing what they need, the admistration is able to, once again, pass the buck on to those who are in no position to fend for themselves. Why not just give them what they need? Why not actually provide the services that we pay tax dollars to fund? Why not do their JOBS, instead of passing the resonsiblity onto the victims?

I wasn't making an attack on the NO poor people in general, you inferred it. And just like many others on this board right now, you are having troubles discrening who, exactly, is on your side.

[MildyRules]

24. I read it

You're saying they can't be trusted to handle money without giving into "unacceptable behavior." Your words, not mine.

[WeRQ4U]

31. That's not what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is that unless you're detached from reality, you realize that there WILL be instances, albeit isolated, where these debit cards will be used irresposibly. Nowhere in my thread did I try to covey the message that all these victims will do so.

What WILL happen, is that this administration will FIND those isolated instances (and there will be some) and try to convey to the public that ALL of the victims are like this. They will try to spin the ineffectiveness of the relief effort as a product of the inability of the recipients to handle money.

Haven't you been watching TV? It's happening already. The alleged snipers caused the piss poor evacuation of the hospitals. The "looters" caused the slowed police reponse and evacuation effort. The "lawlessness" at the superdome and convention centers justifying a slower, more deliberate process. All this spin came from high up. Where do you think the freepers get their fodder? Where do you think they get their talking points and memes?.... It's these types of situations.

When some individuals choose to use this assistance in an illegitimate manner, you can be assured that the adminstration will try to make it seem like the relief efforts are obstructed and futile.

Again, if you think that I'm trying to knock the evacuees of NO, then you misunderstood my post. And if that's the case, I'm sorry.

[DemNoir]

25. Wow,your post is offensive

Debit cards are a great idea, people need stuff now. It is only a first step I hope. They will also need housing and travel vouchers.

[WeRQ4U]

27. I'm Sorry. I did not convey my message clearly then. I'll try again.

The fact of the matter is that unless you haven't been watching television, or refuse to accept reality, SOME people (not all) will not act in the most responsible manner during situations like this. Hell, I'm not condemning ANY of them for doing so either. If I were faced with a situation similar to theirs, I wouldn't be acting normally either.

But what you have to realize is, is that this Administration would waste NO time picking out the very few that DO act irresponsibly, and using them as poster children for why the "relief efforts" aren't successful. Did you not see them trying to use the alleged snipers, "looters" and "street gangs" to justify their slowed response? We all know that this was caused by a minority of the thousands stranded, but didn't it seem like that's ALL we saw?

The same thing will happen with this debit card solution. They will find the select few who steal them, use them fruadulently or otherwise abuse them, and try to portray the general population of victims in this manner. It will be just another way for this administration to privitize and pass the buck. It WILL happen.

I, in no way, intended to say that all the victims of this disaster would resort to inappropriate behavior. But you are kidding yourselves if you don't think that there will be isolated, yet illuminated instances of it.

[Fescue4u]

19. And this is a bad thing WHY? exactly?

Tell ya you what.

You give me everything you own. You can keep the clothes on your back...nothing more. (but I will insist on soaking you with stagnant polluted water just for good measure)

I'll put you on a bus to a place of my choosing. Im not going to tell you where you are going, you'll find out when you get there. You live there for 6 months to a year. After a year, you can come back to what was your home, during which time I've done what I please with it. If I feel like it, I might give it back to you.

In return, I'll give you $2,000.

Deal?

[expatriot]

26. Did I even hint at the fact that I thought $2,000 in aid was a bad idea?

I am just being critical of the fact that FEMA has shown that does not possess the competency to manage such a program and that it is obviously being done on the fly if it is just being announced now.

[Fescue4u]

34. yea you did hint at it.

But it sounds like you didnt mean to so no harm no foul (and it may have just been my percepion)

Agree with the followup of Fema mismanagement. they are obviously playing catchup.

[hunter]

23. Hey, didn't California earthquake victims get $3000?

I don't remember... but...

[derby378]

28. I don't get it...

Handfuls of cash were just fine for American contractors in Iraq. Why isn't cash good enough for the Katrina victims?

[MildyRules]

30. Even RICH people

perfer debit cards to cash these days.

[derby378]

33. I guess I'm a little old-fashioned

Debit cards are handy, sure, but they're made from non-renewable resources. Paper money, on the other hand, is printed on paper, so as long as there's trees on this planet, we can print more dollar bills - as long as we don't get stupid with either trees or bills.

[Fescue4u]

35. The victims are armed

Personally I think that give folks a large amount of cash, with no place to keep it safe is a disaster waiting to happen.

The debit cards are the same as cash and quite a bit safer.

Even in the best of times, I don't like to have that much cash on me. Most I ever carry is about $80 bucks

[Fescue4u]

36. clarifcation on above

to late to edit and I just realized it doenst make any sense :)

I meant to say that the contractors in Iraq are armed.

the victims from New Orleans arent and would be vulnerable with 2k in cash running around.

[Wizard777]

39. Welcome to China. This is for FAMILY'S ONLY.

This kind of rewards a family with 1 child while punishing a family with 8 Children. Then there are individuals that do not qualify because they had families. But now they are the sole survivor. This is one area a Families only blanket is not going to be efficient or effective. You cannot throw equal amounts of money at disproportionate problems. But it is the least they can do and I do mean the very least. What is FEMA's motto again? "Quick! Nobody think!"

This needs to be formulated on an individual basis. Just like the three levels of American Government. The American Family is a group of individuals. Usually with the same last name.

Have the Republicans even heard of America? Maybe that is why they are so leary of the US Constitution. It has all the answers they don't. They seem to prefer "We didn't know" and "I don't understand" "I don't understand" "I don't understand"

Now there's a Duet. NSA Condi "We didn't know" and Debating Bush "I don't understand." That needs to be looped and played until Impeachment.