I can't believe I'm asking this, but are we bashing Bush too much??

[Bleacher Creature]

Look, I take a backseat to nobody in my contempt for that man. He is a vile, disgusting buffoon who belongs in jail. But my fear is that the lesson people will take from this debacle in New Orleans is that it was a failure of one man, or one administration. Clearly people died because Bush refused to give up his vacation, refused to lead, and named incompetents to lead Homeland Security and FEMA.

But the federal government failed the people of the Gulf Coast mainly because of a 25 year crusade by right wing nutjobs against an effective government. Even if Bush were competent, people would have died unnecessarily. Even if he appointed good people, the results would not have been that much better. This is a failure of a system. Bush only exacerbated it. But the last thing I want is for the next conservative who comes along being able to argue that his or her ideas are the still the right ones, so long as the person in charge knows what they are doing.

[liberal N proud]

1. NEVER!

[Waya]

2. NOPE

[craigolemiss]

14. uhhh--no---gee I thought we were just getting started

plenty of jail cells for all of them

[iconoclastic cat]

3. We should be going after Republicans, fundies and conservatives.

Bush is done. We need to wipe his stench all over the Republicans and their evil henchmen.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

12. "Wipe his stench all over the Republicans"

OMG ROTFLMAO. I needed to finally get a good laugh. Thanks for that line!

[Burried News]

26. Yes - you beat me to it. This is the ReThuglican Party's disaster.

[pbartch]

4. NO. He deserves Bashing and he deserves to be Impeached

[mcscajun]

5. You make some excellent points...

...we can't limit ourselves to just *.

Yet, the fish does rot/stink from the head, and he's got to the primary target. But, as you point out so right, NOT the Only One.

It's time for wholesale change.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. We are against **'s policies as much as we are against him

------------------------------------------------------
Save the Gulf:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[tk2kewl]

7. you are right in connecting it to the neocon movement

and that needs to emerge as an underlying cause, but that should be done by making idiot-son the poster boy for that movement

[fooj]

8. Absolutely not! He ordered stand-downs and stopped aid

and emergency rescue teams from getting to the people in desperate need. That has nothing to do with 25 years of wingnuts. That was a inhumane decision made in the present.

Peace.

[usg353d]

Nope!

[Beaverhausen]

9. He played golf, ate cake and went to fundraisers AFTER Katrina hit

we can't bash him enough.

Clinton would have been in washington the days before it hit to make sure the emergency efforts were in place.

[Yavin4]

10. It Took Four Days Until Aid Got To Those People

Whatever screw-ups happened before that should also be dealt with, but there's no excuse to leave people to die because there was no food or water. No excuse.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. No Sir..Bush is the APEX of it just as Hoover was

[Justitia]

13. The buck stops w/the President of the United States. Or, it SHOULD. -eom

[benburch]

15. Nope!

In his feckless pursuit of personal gain his wonton disregard for the lives of other human beings, and his palpable ineptness, Bush stands with Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Kim Jung Il, and Benito Mussolini.

[stopbush]

16. * is the FACE of RW incompetence and hate.

As such, he is rightfully our focus.

[Obamarama]

17. Are you KIDDING?

I'm not trying to create a flame war or dress you down, but to answer your question, no we are NOT.

This neocon madness need to end, it needs to end NOW and I plan on shouting out ALL the names of the murderers for all to hear. I will do it today. I will do it tomorow. I will do it next week. I will do it next month. I will do it next year. I will do it until people begin to hear.

[mnhtnbb]

18. No--it's politics

Please check out the story just posted on FEMA's pre-positioning of assets for Hurricane Frances in FL 2004--an election year.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4664680

[Cooley Hurd]

19. To bash Bush is to bash the modern symbol of the NeoCons...

...a cabal, I might add, that made its bones by blowing the brains out of John F Kennedy in Dallas 42 years ago.

It took a very long time, but this "chicken" is coming home to roost... HARD!!!!:grr:

[tinrobot]

20. No

Raw story is reporting Navy ships with supplies and helicopters never getting the order from Bush to deploy... that's one of dozens of similar stories.

He was absent from duty. This is his fault.

He needs to be bashed to the point where he resigns. I'm convinced that's the only way this country will be safe.

[catnhatnh]

21. Over 10,000 are dead......

...if he is responsible for ONLY 1, how could you argue that mere verbal reprimands are "too much"-in short, have you LOST YOUR FRIKKIN' MIND??????

[Individualist]

22. Hell no!

[pepperlove]

23. Repugs rode Clinton for 8 years...

we have not begun to ride *'s arse.

[DURHAM D]

24. It isn't the system - it is the Repug controlled government.

In order to turn this country around those people who are basically inattentive (about 70% of population) need to understand that the problem is Republicans and not one person and not the bureaucrats. It needs to penetrate so that the next time they go vote they have got to vote straight Dem across the board at every level or we/they get more of the same - People who hate everything I stand for and stand for everything I hate.

[Ganja Ninja]

25. The day before the storm, Bush on vacation.

The day of the storm, Bush on vacation.
The day AFTER the storm, Bush on vacation!

[CWebster]

27. Well, it seems we have enough Democrats claiming

they could do a better job with Bush's la-la land agenda rather than opposing it. You know, by sending even more troops to iraq. Sort of like pouring fuel on a fire.

[understandinglife]

28. Haven't even started bashing him. Just demanding his resignation ...

.... because he is a willful murderer of his own people; a willful murderer of Iraqi citizens; a willful torturer of .....

Since when is assembling a rap sheet of capital crimes, bashing?


Peace.

[hippiegranny]

29. He is the symbol

of all that is so very wrong. Just like Cindy Sheehan became the human symbol of the anti-war effort, Bush stands, front and center, for all the disgraceful events that have happened since he bamboozled his way into the White House. We definitely should not let up on him.

[Rainscents]

30. HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!! He didn't get enough bashing!!!

We need to make up for past 5 years of MSM spinning!

[triguy46]

31. I think of it as constructive criticism n/t

[T Town Jake]

32. No.

(n/t)

[htuttle]

33. Finish Him!

[Chovexani]

43. ROFL

Great minds think alike. :rofl:

[bowens43]

34. No, we're not. We have not yet begun to bash!

[Vinca]

35. It's not possible to bash Bush too much. We'd need longer days.

Oh yeah, I forgot, we're getting them with that wonderful "energy" bill.

[FrankChurch]

36. We shouldn't just bash Bush

This is an entire government meltdown. We on the left may have to think about big government, and how it can fail.

Anarchism solves this question.

[Garbo 2004]

37. Funny FEMA worked under Clinton...any doubt that the Fed response would

have been timelier and more effective under a Clinton or Gore?

[Cleita]

38. Ummm, no!

He's not getting any flack anyway, because the people, our Democratic representatives, who should be demanding answers, aren't letting him know what a big fuck up he is.

Even, Howard Dean, whom I ordinarily adore but not this time, said that we should band together to help each other because adequate help won't be coming from the federal government. "Ignore them," he said.

:wtf: Ignore them? Sorry Dr. Dean but they need to be put on the griddle right now, sooner rather than later.

[LaPera]

39. Bush is untouchable, Teflon man. Protect Bush at all cost...and we'll take

the blame. As long as we have our King we will be fine.

Bush will pardon us, promote us to higher offices and take care of us...BUT, we must shield him and take the blame so he can continue...

THIS IS WHY WE CAN NEVER HIT BUSH HARD ENOUGH, AND DESERVEDLY SO!!!

[FrankChurch]

41. Hurricane Jeanne.

Remember hurricane Jeanne? Went into Haiti, killing many black people, Bush didn't do squat.

[steve2470]

40. I'm in shock. I don't believe you typed that.

But I do get your point about the RW nutjobs' legacy.

[all.of.me]

42. NO!

[Jon3]

44. Don't drown the message

I've found that when you try to take _every_ issue and point out to how it can be the fault of any one entity, people stop taking your seriously. Especially when taking it to extreme lengths.

And people taking your seriously is the only way you're going to get your message across. Something we have a real problem with lately.

YMMV.

[mattclearing]

45. "Bush Bashing" is Republican rhetoric. Stop using their language. n/t

[walldude]

46. I'm just getting started.. When I'm finished bashing him

I'm going to bash everyone who supports him. Then I'm going to demand his resignation. Not Impeachment mind you I want this little prick to resign in disgrace. Now mind you much of what you say is true, and had the relief effort only been a huge clusterfuck then so be it. But there is too much evidence that relief was held back. Some of it so Bush could get his photo-op. Did you see the German reporters who claim that after Bush's photo-op in front of a food and water distribution area they packed up the distribution center and hauled it away. Mind you this was on Friday when people hadn't had food or water for 4 days... This was criminal, and there is no letting up until the guilty are punished.

[MissB]

47. .

:rofl:

[Richard Steele]

48. No. Bush is the HEAD of the festering pustule!

one of your sentences is WRONG:
"Even if he appointed good people, the results would not have been that much better."

WRONG.
FEMA had plans in place for years,
plans for ANYTHING that might EVER happen.

WHY were those long-laid PLANS not put into effect?

2 reasons:
MONEY and LEADERSHIP.

Let's address them both:

MONEY:
Before B*sh illegally siezed the Oval Office,
FEMA was well funded.
Money was spent around the nation to PREVENT
potential problems.

Under B*sh, New Orleans lost 70% of the money it needed to
maintain the levys that keep the water out.
NOT "improvement" money..."Basic Maintainence" money...

The New Orleans "Emergency shelters" lost the money to
keep the stocks of food and water they maintained under Clinton...
6 years ago, NO had food and water for a disaster,
but B*sh let it SPOIL and didn't replace it!

LEADERSHIP:
His ass-kissing $$$contributor who he placed at the HELM
of the agency (FEMA) has ZERO experience with Emergency Management.

He has ZERO experience with "emergency" ANYTHING!\
He has zero "SUCCESSFUL TENURE" at anything!

He spent 9 years "managing" the association for
"PURE-BRED ARABIAN HORSE OWNERS"...
until the members filed lawsuit to kick him out!!!



PLANS were in place, years ago.
"Plans" for dealing with potential disasters,
and "plans" to avoid them ahead of time.

B*sh took the $$$ for avoiding them,
and gave it to the wealthiest 1% of US citizens.

And then he handed the responsibility for the AFTERMATH
to a man who couldn't handle the job of making
rich people take care of horses that cost more than my house.

[JugDack]

49. It won't make any difference, but....

...go ahead if it makes you feel better. In the end, the Repubs will murk up the waters by blaming the Gov of LA and Mayor of NO, and will accuse Dems of trying to make political points off human suffering. The MSM will do some polls and some process stories, and in a few days we'll all be talking about SCOTUS or the latest cute-girl kidnapping.

[stevedeshazer]

50. Let's be nice to him then, and show him that we really care!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[melody]

51. Not enough bashing on him, imho n/t

[firefox]

52. In some ways

He is a complete incompetent sellout puppet that was sought out by the monied to advance their agenda. He was no political guru and had not one idea where America needed to change course when the PNAC people propositioned him for his name recognition and lack of a political past.

Of course I refer to Bu$h as WarCriminal in personal conversation, just as I do here. But in some ways focusing on the sack of shit the plutocrats chose for there puppet turns things into a personality contest.

I believe in the big picture questions. Is America a fascist country? How do you put an end to two party system supported by the fascist so that they might have perpetual control? How do we end the Empire wars and get the corporations out of the public treasury? How do we push back federal power to something resembling the Constitutional powers it was granted and end the federal hegemony that has trampled states rights and unalienable rights?

While WarCriminal is a lightning rod for a lot of wrath, the powers that selected him for office are still secreting their agenda. There is a damage that comes when you let conversation turn to WarCriminal like it is a soap opera to catch up on.

We have to talk about the runaway powers of the federal government and how the wealthy have gamed the system for their benefit and at the expense of all others on the planet.

I like to talk of the drug war because many do not understand the lessons it can teach us. Even there it is important to talk about the big picture questions and answers. I usually say that the CIA is the biggest dealer in illegal drugs on the planet, because it is the fraudulent War on Drugs on full zoom out. The drug war also tells us that both parties are a sellout to the empiring fascists.

We have to end the soap opera nature of politics where some giant orchestrator gives Congressmen their television appearances along with the party line in print. We have to stop people from the sports mentality of Republicans and Democrats being teams opposing each other.

The biggest thing to know about WarCriminal is that he is a puppet. That is where I like to zoom out to and then everything else is all smaller talk.

[progressivebydesign]

53. You're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree vehemently. n/t

[H2O Man]

54. No.

Not at all. He is president, because his group highjacked democracy.

[Buns_of_Fire]

55. Nah. Not just yet.

Now, when he's been squashed squishy and kicked to the curb as the prime example of a sub-sub-standard intellect without any semblance of human emotions save those related to greed and power...

Ummmmm... Nah. Kick him some more. I'm perfectly willing to offer him as much mercy as he's offered everyone else. O8)

[nini]

56. If the bar of expectations is so low to accept his destructive failures

... then yes.


Personally, I haven't. Therefore he deserves all the questions and anger I have.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. You have to put a name and a face to the problem

For people to get it. I agree that Fuckface is just a figurehead and it's their entire organization and the ideology they hold and have dedicated themselves to imposing on us that's the problem. But "Neo-Conservatism" means nothing to the average American, and most of them have no idea who Grover Norquist it. And "Government" is this large, amorphous, concept that they don't personalize and frankly still associate with libruls. Bush is the recognizable icon and symbol of the depraved indifference of conservatives. He is a person, a powerful person. One who chose to play golf and strum his guitar while the Gulf States were drowning. He's a modern-day Marie Antionette.


It is BUSH. BUSH. BUSH.

Repeat often.