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BBV book: Chapters 3 & 4 now up in PDF format:

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 12:28 AM
Original message
BBV book: Chapters 3 & 4 now up in PDF format:
Edited on Fri Oct-03-03 12:28 AM by plan9_pub
I'll get the PNGs up tomorrow when I am not so tired. Making to many mistakes now. <s>

David Allen
Plan Nine Publishing
www.plan9.org
www.blackboxvoting.com

Diebold Voting Machines
We vote for you, so you don't have to!

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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. some helpful suggestions for chapter 3
I just finished reading chapter 3 and I have a few thoughts.

1. Spell-check is your friend. Gems (ha) like "develope" in chapter 3 are not actually words. Particularly egregious are sentences such as the following:

It needs stronger langauge (sic) to make the voter- verified paper ballot the legal reprentation (sic) of our vote, and beefed-up auditing procedures need to follow.

or

For example, in a normal audit, if you were examing (sic) randomly pulled purchase orders, and discovered an anomally (sic), your (sic) would pull a larger sample of purchase orders.


2. Subject-verb agreement is generally a desirable trait. Actually "verbs" in general are pretty desirable. For example, take this sentence from page 64:

Discrepancies — if the difference between machine count and manual count is excessive, whether or not the identified discrepancy would overturn the election.

(Without the verb, one can only wonder what the original point may have been.)


3. Proper punctuation often adds instant credibility. This sentence, while refreshingly free of spelling errors, is in need of serious editing by someone with an English degree or a basic grasp of the "langauge" (sic):

In one news account, in which logs showed 48,000 votes cast, but only 36,000 recorded, a technician e-mailed the “correct” results for the missing votes, claiming it did not change the outcome, though no one would ever know, because an audit trail didn’t exist.

The problem is "way too many commas", you see. Perhaps some of them could be transplanted to this earlier construction from page 57:

Before you start explaining that cryptography, redundant systems, or a secret pin number are the answer, let me explain: Cryptography doesn’t solve the problems either nor does redundancy or a receipt with a pin number.

(And for the record, the promised "explanation" never actually materializes: we're left with a simple re-statement of the premise without any explanation whatsoever. Alas.)


4. Using grammatical errors as a means of distracting from the inherent absurdity of a statement is a weak tactic. For example,

When the polls close, election workers can scan the bar code. This will take two poll workers approximately forty minutes to do an entire precincts (sic), giving us a 100% audit at the polling station {missing punctuation}

There's no basis whatsoever for this claim: there's simply no way to calculate the time it would take two arbitrary workers to count an unknown number of ballots containing an unspecified number of races for an arbitrary precinct of unknown size and voter turnout. Throwing in a few errors may distract some people, but any critical thinkers in your audience won't be so easily deceived.



I don't really have the energy to deal with chapter 4 at this point -- it's quite an ordeal for obvious reasons. Tomorrow's another day, however. Perhaps you could hire a new editor between now and then, and clean this thing up a bit. I mean I suppose it's fine if you're going to distribute it over the internet and all, but if you want to actually charge people for a printed copy I feel you should really make at least a token effort.


Lowly computer programmers: 1
Allegedly serious book publishers: 0


JC

:kick:
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Now, see here's the difference between me and you
If I were you, I would rush out, make corrections, and deny they were ever wrong in the first place. A very useful tactic you've made use of in the past.

David Allen
www.plan9.org

Diebold Voting Machines
We vote for you, so you don't have to!
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. gee, touchy
Wow, I guess that's the last time I help you with your little book. :(

All spitefulness on your part aside, I'd really suggest you hire an editor to read this thing before you publish it. Nobody's going to take the BBV team seriously if it can't collectively spell, conjugate, or compose a complex sentence.

JC
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Hey tinfoil, I actually agree with something you said
I like fewer commas. Apparently you are unaware that AP Style Guide and Chicago Style Manual have different rules about commas?

AP goes for the bare minimum. My editor uses Chicago Style Guide. Then I go in and make changes and call my publisher at midnight and dictate them to him, which must surely drive the editor nuts and usually manages to introduce new errors.

Score 1 for obsessive-compulsive groupie critic who prefers fewer commas
Score 1 for author who did kick-ass research with the help of a few hundred friends, who prefers fewer commas.

Score so far:
Groupie critic - 2
Comic Book Publisher and author - 4

Oh, and by the way -- the open source editing model is great. We've gotten some wonderful tweaks, not all implemented yet. Thanks to all, including tinfoil groupie.

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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. you're welcome
And "kick-ass research"?

Don't throw your shoulder out patting yourself on the back. As you may recall, many of your public BBV claims to date have been shown to be nonsensical. Or have you forgotten? I actually have a list of my favorites... I'm waiting to see whether they show up in the book.

I'm always glad to help with the English thing. It doesn't matter what style guide you use, your use of commas in general is both erratic and largely incorrect. Or maybe the fault lies entirely with your editor (the one who fell asleep at the spell-check wheel and let an embarrassing number of spelling and grammatical errors through). One can only hope that the Plan9 legal department was as thorough as the editorial staff in its review of the upcoming chapters.

JC

:kick: and then off to bed.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. my scorecard
Edited on Fri Oct-03-03 02:35 AM by bumbler
Open source publishing, +1, critics 0, diehard skeptics reduced to finding typos, priceless.

That said, thank TfHP for catching these nits. It is a very helpful, and clearing these errors out of the text before the first printing is another advantage of this open source model. And if these are his most devastating critiques of the book so far, I'll take that as a resounding endorsement of the actual content. So I thank TfHP again for the implicit praise.

(edit: cleared up ambiguous pronouns, I hope)
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. you die-hards crack me up
These are not critiques of the book's content, they're more aptly characterized as critiques of Plan9's credibility as a serious book publishing entity.

Besides, there's not actually all that much there in the first four chapters to critique. Aside from a lengthy series of anecdotes in chapter two, the rest is (so far) mostly a bunch of poorly-spelled rhetoric and hearsay. I'll admit, however, that the footnotes attributing quotes to various unidentified Slashdot posters do have some redeeming amusement value.

Various people here have already rebutted all of the stupider BBV claims. I'm waiting to see how (and indeed whether) they show up in print.

JC
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. 30 pages of BBV machine screw ups
Edited on Fri Oct-03-03 03:07 AM by plan9_pub
Corrected a typo.


completely documented with footnotes citing newspaper sources is not anecdotal.

Like the term "spam", you seem to not understand the meaning of the words you use.

an·ec·dote: a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident.

I count 112 citations, of which 100 are cites from newspapers and radio reports.

*Hardly* anecdotal.

David Allen
www.plan9.org

Diebold Voting Machines
We vote for you, so you don't have to!
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Gee. The announcement wasn't made until those typos
Edited on Fri Oct-03-03 04:03 AM by BevHarris
had been corrected.

Apparently you are so fascinated by this book that you check the site every 2 minutes to see if the next installment is ready. Because the items you refer to appeared there for exactly 16 minutes.

But thank you, because you did find one I missed.

I'm so dreadfully sorry you don't like the book. Can't help but wonder why you find yourself compelled to check for updates every 2 minutes.

Bev

(following TinfoilHatGroupie's example, I shall refuse to admit that I went back and changed a word in this post to make it more consistent. Nope. Never happened.)
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. you could avoid future confusion by editing before posting
I sincerely hope you realize that what I posted were just anecdotes, not a comprehensive list of the errors that were there. I trust that you've since corrected the rest. :eyes:

Also, I checked exactly once. The links were there and I read the new chapters. Like many of your other public assertions, you appear to have simply pulled the "every 2 minutes" (later referred to as "every three minutes") claim out of thin air.

Also, I never said that I didn't like the book. I said it was poorly-spelled and conjugated, and in need of serious editing -- all of which are demonstrably true. I also said it had some redeeming amusement value. I'm reserving judgment on whether I like the book as a whole until I see the rest of it.

JC
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ah, the groupie spins again
Edited on Fri Oct-03-03 03:42 AM by BevHarris
Before you start explaining that cryptography, redundant systems, or a secret pin number are the answer, let me explain: Cryptography doesn’t solve the problems either nor does redundancy or a receipt with a pin number.

(You say:) "And for the record, the promised "explanation" never actually materializes: we're left with a simple re-statement of the premise without any explanation whatsoever. Alas."

(You fail to say:) It refers the reader to a later chapter for the explanation, because that is not the main subject of this chapter.

When the polls close, election workers can scan the bar code. This will take two poll workers approximately forty minutes to do an entire precinct, giving us a 100% audit at the polling station.

(You say:) "There's no basis whatsoever for this claim: there's simply no way to calculate the time it would take two arbitrary workers to count an unknown number of ballots containing an unspecified number of races for an arbitrary precinct of unknown size and voter turnout. Throwing in a few errors may distract some people, but any critical thinkers in your audience won't be so easily deceived.

Well, except that my sister-in-law uses a bar coder at work and we timed an exercise like this. We estimated on the high end for number of ballots, at 3,000 -- that is a large precinct, most are smaller. We did this little exercise and found it would take 20 minutes. One of the changes made tonight was at David's suggestion: Double that figure, we don't want any of those naysayers claiming we minimized it.



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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. Scoop's mirrors of Chaps 3 +4 are in place....
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. kick
:thumbsup:

JC
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. Great news Bev and crew!
Keep them chapters coming. It's good to know we have an expert proof reader helping out. :evilgrin:

:kick:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. Blackboxvoting.com is down!
I got an error.
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. oh no
Maybe TotalChoice Hosting thought the atrocious spelling reflected poorly on them?

JC
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. David's checking into it.....
.....you can download chapters 3 & 4 from Scoop.
http://scoop.co.nz/mason/features/?s=usacoup :evilgrin: Thanks Al! :hi: :toast:
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. kick
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-03 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks!
Bedtime reading...
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