HEY! Is George W. Bush "The President"?

[Gringo]

My Dad's girlfriend gets mad at me for teaching my small kids that Bush is a bad man who belongs in jail. She tells them "He's still our President".

First: your opinion on Bush's Legitimacy

Second: your comments on whether or not it's right to teach such small children (5 and 3) that our "leader" is evil and stupid.

[Loyal]

1. I checked his legitimacy is dubious

simply because there was so much fraud in Florida in 2000 that I don't think we will ever know who actually won. :shrug:

[boxster]

3. I think just about every independent analysis of the ballots

has shown that Gore would have won.

I've always been amazed at how little that ever seemed to matter to the general public.

[Loyal]

22. A case could be made

that votes were supressed in the heavily Republican panhandle, due to early predictions by networks that Gore had won Florida. While I believe Gore won, it was much too early to call it, what with hardly any of the precints reporting and all. Arguments can be made on both sides, but I personally will never be convinced for sure about who won, I don't think.

[0rganism]

24. A case has already been made that Democratic votes were supressed

How many, you ask?

About 55,000 who weren't allowed to vote because their last names coincided within a certain percentage with those of felons, during Bitch Harris' voter roll purge. NB - some of those felons used to purge other voters already had their voting rights restored.

Do you honestly think 55,000 GOP voters in the panhandle didn't vote because they heard Gore was projected to win Florida?

Oh, and while it was indeed a serious mistake to broadcast an early result while the polls were still open, those projections were based on exit poll data by the perenially reliable VNS. There were apparently lots of voters who thought they'd voted for Al Gore. What happened to them?

It's in the overvotes. After the SCOTUS ruling, the ballots were recounted by an academic group (National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago) hired by the media consortium, who were confident that it would reinforce the idea of Bush victory. Unfortunately for them and democracy, it did not -- Gore picked up about 20,000 votes more than shrub. The only way they could spin it so "bush wins the recount" (and you saw that headline, right?) was by considering the 4-county scenario, when in fact it was likely that the SCOFla would have ordered a statewide recount.

In ANY of the count-all-votes scenarios, Gore won. Remember that.

[boxster]

27. True, I do recall (no pun intended) the panhandle issue.

You'd think SOMEONE at the networks would have a clue that Florida resides in parts of two time zones. What a bunch of morons.

[qanda]

2. The truth will set you free!

I tell my children, 5 and 7, all the time that George W. Bush* is not an honest or upright man. My kids went with me to the march in Washington DC before the war and we will be attending the march later this month. I don't believe that kids should be told anything but what the truth is and how else could I explain us dropping bombs on countries that have done nothing to us, except to say that our leader is evil!

[DiverDave]

5. I tell my

5 year old that he is a bad man.
My wife then says to wait a while before getting him into politics...Yeah I wait till she leaves the room.

[booksenkatz]

13. YESSSSS!!!

[Padraig18]

4. If * is 'President'...

... then I'm Queen Liz! :grr: :puke:

[zonmoy]

28. "If * is 'President'..."

then this is hell.

[w4rma]

6. *

Al Gore and Joe Lieberman *won* the election in 2000. Al Gore kicked Shrub's pants off in Florida by ~46,000 votes. He beat Shrub nationwide be more than half a million votes. Had Florida been awarded to Al Gore as the voters in Florida wanted then Al Gore would have won by 45 (46 without the abstention) electoral votes.

“More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate. Because there was no clear indication of what the voters intended, those numbers were not included in the consortium's final tabulations.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html

~46,000 is the margin that Al Gore *actually* won Florida by. *That* was the intent of the voters. Not some measly ~200 votes. Also, *without* those ~46K votes Al Gore still won according to Florida law (had SCOTUS not *unconstitutionally* interfered).
Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2058793
http://www.geocities.com/dearkandb/supremeqanda.html
http://www.the-rule-of-law.com/
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Also, Al Gore got more popular votes that any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States, except for the time that Reagan won 49 out of 50 states' electoral votes. This was done while fending off an attack from the left *and* while fighting against a heavily biased media.
Sources:
http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=181&row=1
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=90&forum=DCForumID45
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is at least dimpled. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 107 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is detached from one or more corners. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 72 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is fully detached from ballot.
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 430 votes.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html

For the count we've been keeping since Election Day, these are now the final numbers for a state-wide cumulative media recount.
http://www.unknownnews.net/election2000.html#count

[stopthegop]

7. a couple of points..

“More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate. Because there was no clear indication of what the voters intended, those numbers were not included in the consortium's final tabulations.”

That's appropriate...it would be totally invalid to assume the 75000 meant Gore and the 29000 meant Bush...

"Also, Al Gore got more popular votes that any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States, except for the time that Reagan won 49 out of 50 states' electoral votes."

True...but unimportant...the 'popular vote' is simply the totals from 52 (?) seperate elections...has no real meaning...
but everyone knows that...

[Gringo]

8. OMG Someone voted him leigitimate!

Please cancel your membership now. Are you unaware of the origins of DU?

[VermontDem2004]

9. rotflmao

[Padraig18]

16. Whoever it was...

"Get thee behind me, Satan!" :grr:

[stopthegop]

18. well...need to be careful...

if Roe v Wade is legitimate...it's a controversial decision also...

[Gringo]

23. I would venture that there is less unanimity in the dem party

RE Roe v. Wade than there is about Bush v. Gore. I personally find abortion fairly distasteful, and would discourage a loved one of mine from doing it. I refuse to consider abortion views of candidates when voting, because I think it's used dishonestly as a wedge issue - primarily by the right, sometimes by the left. I prefer to focus on larger quality of life issues.

As to Roe v. Wade's validity - that could be addressed it the congress would have the courage to once and for all pass an amendment to either ban it or clearly lay out the conditions under which it can be performed. I really don't care wheter it's legal or not, and I resent so much time money and effort being wasted by both sides on such a silly and endless debate.

[Ediacara]

10. I checked "other"

While technically and legally, Bush is the president, he is not legitimately the president.

A similar example would be, the Venezuelan coup puppet Pedro Carmona who was technically and legally president of Venezuela for about 3 days in 2002, but was not legitimately president.

[ignatius]

11. He is and has always been a nothing of a man who without

the Bush name could not even take orders at Mickey D's.

My 14 year old nephew, who stays with us quite often, knows my feelings about Bush. I explain issues to him and know that he is learning about civics and will be a responsible citizen.

There is nothing patriotic about not questioning any of our leaders, including the president.

[booksenkatz]

12. It's what I teach my 4-year-old

My son sees Bush on my computer screen from time to time (I don't watch TV anymore), and he always says, "There's that bad man who wants to hurt the world and hurt people." Hey, in a nutshell, he's right! He knows that this man is currently running things, and that mommy and other grownups are working very hard to make sure that he is sent far, far away so that he can never hurt anyone again. I don't say it in a way that frightens him, and I always stress that very soon, this bad man will no longer be running things.

My husband (a Tom Daschle type of Dem), is horrified that I "brainwash" our son this way. But I would have expected a good German mommy in the 1930s to have said the same thing about Hitler. So I believe it's what a good American mommy says in 2003.



P.S. I just now asked my son if he wanted to add anything, he said that we should call a policeman to take that man away, LOL!

[DinahMoeHum]

14. I never EVER refer to * as "President". . .

Those 2 words "President" and "Bush" will never come together as long as I'm breathing.

:kick:

[Padraig18]

17. Yes!

I also refer to bill Clinton as 'the last lawful President of the United States"... drives these Repugnicrats around here crazy! One even threatened to "see you (me) deported!" :P

[Benhurst]

15. He is illegitimate, the spawn of a corrupt Supreme Court.

We should refer to Bush* as Governor Bush, since there is a tradition dating back to the earliest days of the Republic of referring to public officials by the highest office to which they have ever been ELECTED. (Think of Senator Claude Pepper of Florida, who was elected to the U.S. Senate, but went on to serve many years thereafter as a U.S. Congressman. He was always addressed as "Senator".) "Governor Bush": a traditional, respectful and truthful title for the man presently squatting in the White House.


As for what to teach little children, you are right to tell them the truth.

[The Magistrate]

19. No, Sir

The reptile is no President, and on my oath he shall never be so called by me.

Your instruction of the young ones is fit and proper. Do, please, continue it, if compatible with familial peace, anyway.

[janekat]

20. No Al Gore is the REAL President

Bush - get out of Al Gore's house NOW!

[TheDonkey]

21. He is a tumor on America's legacy.

He is not the president.

[The White Rose]

25. Teach them to respect the Office,

and remind them that the Office is much more than the man. Sometimes very much more...

[Skittles]

26. WHO THE F*** RESPECTS THAT PIECE OF SHIT SCOTUS DECISION

I NEED TO KICK THEIR F***ING ASSES. IDIOTS.

[hooligan]

29. While I agree with your opinion of Bush

I must admit, I am a bit creeped out with drumming your political opinions into the heads of your 3 and 5 year old kids. I think the wise approach would be careful guidance, and giving your kids more objective views on politics, so they may form their own opinions one day. I think with the right information and guidance, they will come to the right conclusions on their own. Also, don't underestimate the tendency for kids to rebel against the values of their parents later in life, especially if their parents were overbearing in pushing their beliefs onto them. My 2 cents. Good luck.

[_NorCal_D_]

30. Bush is a thief!

And a monster.

[youngred]

31. He is the President

He will forever be remembered as the president. He holds the honor and privledges of the office. But he was not elected by anyone other than the corrupt 5 members of the supreme court who got to vote twice. He is illegitimate, but he is the President

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. He wasn't elected, he doesn't belong where he is

and he certainly does not deserve the honor and privileges of the office he stole. How the heck can he be the "President" when he wasn't elected unless we now have our "Presidents" appointed? Appointed is the only reason the slime is ...........Oh nevermind :argh: I hope he is impeached and removed from office. Failing that, I hope he doesn't manage to STEAL it again.

[youngred]

35. Whether we like it or not he is the De Facto President

I don't like it and I don't respect him for anything, but I respect the office

[Gringo]

37. Typical thing for a canadian to say!

;-)

[youngred]

38. if i were i'd be much happier

alas I'm an American who loves our neighbor to the north.

[Chovexani]

32. "Other" = illegal squatter

He's squatting in Al Gore's house!

[Zorra]

34. Answer to # 1: (expletives deleted)

Answer to # 2: Children should be told the truth. Bush is an unquestionably an evil person. Would you tell your children that Hitler was evil and stupid if he was our leader?

I'm not saying that Bush is as bad as Hitler, but they are both evil and stupid.

[Darranar]

36. No, he isn't the president...

All of his powers are the result of a fradulent election.

President Gore is the real one, but he can't serve due to the coup.

[LuCifer]

39. WTF! Who voted for "He's the President-The Supreme Court's ruling should"

Pah-leez! You stupid freepers! Geepers freepers.

GET A LIFE!