Anyone else cringing a bit at the Sliming of Schwargenegger?

[DemLikr]

OK, I admit it: I'm near spontaneous orgasm today over the combination Bush/Rove, Limbaugh/ESPN/drugs, Arnold/titties scandals erupting all around me. Kharma is a powerful and wonderous thing.

BUT, I think I need to be reminded of why it is that I'm supposed to be delighting in Arnold's misery...help me out.

For me, I think it's simply that he has chosen to be a Repuke, and the Repukes are always screaming FUCKING FAMILY VALUES, and they are generally hateful hypocrites, and so there is pleasure in seeing another Repuke squirm under the spotlight. Plus, I'm against the whole recall concept and want to see it go down.

BUT, Arnold is pro-gay rights, pro-choice, and obviously a lover of all things sensual, including the use of cannibas. I like everything about those attitudes. I don't buy that he's a rapist/misogynist, and I don't see how these last-minute "revelations" make him any different person than he was yesterday.
.
I suppose to some degree, my unease has to do with the fact that even though I'm pleased to see the Republicans get some of their own back in their face, I hate that our politics has come to this; and that we've been lowered.

Notice, please, that I didn't say we should STOP unilaterally. This state of political affairs does, however, make me queasy.

Thoughts?

[Evil_Dewers]

1. Arnold is pro-groping women.

He's a serial groper and a sexual harasser. One of the latest ladies he groped needs to file suit for sexual harassment.

Payback is a bitch.

[DealsGapRider]

10. So was Bill Clinton.

Let's be honest, at least. There isn't a thing Arnold has been accused of in this context that hasn't been widely attributed to Clinton.

The point is that candidates should be chosen on the basis of their policy positions, not occasional lapses in etiquette. Arnold should be defeated because he isn't nearly as capable as Davis at governing, not because he pinched a woman's ass when he shouldn't have.

[realFedUp]

Let's do this one more time

Clinton had consensual sexual gratification

Arnold didn't ask women before grabbing their body parts.

Big difference.
Arnold could actually go to jail for what he did.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. Did Juanita Broderick fess up to concensual sex?

? Short memory?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Did Ken Starr use her? One has to wonder if she were actually assaulted

why the Starr report even absolved Clinton on that matter...

[Classical_Liberal]

53. No evidence. I don't believe the allegation

I don't believe it here either. It just looks like dirty campaigning.

[charlie]

58. Why is Arnie apologizing? n/t

[Classical_Liberal]

When, where?

.

[charlie]

68. Link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32971-2003Oct2?language=printer

[Classical_Liberal]

73. I would say you have a real issue then.

. Please don't make this the only one though. He is playing for empathy from males who may have behaved badly.

[Cheswick2.0]

98. and apparently he is getting it

from what I see on this forum

[Classical_Liberal]

102. I am not a man

. I would rather win than just be vicimized by such men. This is a risky venture.

[CO Liberal]

122. Since You Don't Apologize For Something That Didn't Happen.....

...something obviously happened.

Any woman in California who votes for Ah-Nald after this is a fool.

[Classical_Liberal]

242. Even before this any women(or man) who voted Arnold was a fool

. Yes he apologized for behavaing badly and admitted that where there was smoke there was fire.

[Brian Sweat]

44. No, but there is no evidense that she is telling the truth.

She accuses Clinton of rape, but can provide no details as to when it was supposed to have occured.

[Classical_Liberal]

61. She provided plenty of details

there was just no evidence as there is none in these allegations

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. what's that supposed to mean?

Was Juanita Broderick raped?

[Classical_Liberal]

63. She claims she was.

.

[Cheswick2.0]

95. no but she did fess up to the fact that nothing happened

d'oh

[Classical_Liberal]

127. When was this?

It certainly didn't happen during the Clinton Administration, and she never retracted her television testamoney.

[Cheswick2.0]

165. Sorry I don't have a date for you

Sometime shortly before Clinton left office she admited that it was all made up and that she was being used by her husband (ex-husband?) who was trying to get money out of the deal.
Of course that bit of information hardly made a ripple in the media.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

170. Look immediately below your post...I found the details.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

169. Ever hear of the book "The Hunting of the President" by...

...Joe Conason and Gene Lyons, and published in 2000 by St. Martin's Press in New York? Ever hear of the Arkansas Project, an operation funded by the American Spectator, who received their funds from Richard Mellon Scaife?

From page 345-346 of the aforementioned book:

"Nor was Paula Jones the only witness called whose story was far from persuasive. With the exception of Larry Nichols, Larry Case, and Say Mcintosh, virtually the whole cast of characters from the sexual side of the 'Clinton scandals' either filed afadavits or gave depositions between October 1997 and January 1998. Juanita Broaddrick had done both, adamantly insisting that the allegations made in Phillip Yoakum's widely circulated letter claiming Bill Clinton had sexually assaulted her in a Little Rock hotel in 1978 were spurious. No copies of tape recordings Yoakum claimed to have made of her allegedly confirming the charge ever materialized. Nothing surfaced that hadn't previously been reported. None of the president' accusers had done very well."

Webster's defines "spurious" as: "2. false; counterfeit; not genuine".

The story promoted by those associated with the Arkansas Project was completely false. But, do you really think she would have been given any television airtime to tell her side of the story during that point in time?

Please note the timing of the filing of the deposition and affadavit given by Juanita Broaddrick as sometime between October 1997 and January 1998. Clinton was president until January 2001, wasn't he?

I'm surprised that anyone, particularly if they knew about the Arkansas Project, believed ANY of the nonsense leaked to the press during Clinton's presidency.

[Cheswick2.0]

188. thank you

I knew I had read those words but couldn't remember where.

[Karenina]

172. WHAT is not to get here?

Another link:

http://eightballmagazine.com/diatribes/volume01/diatribes024/diatribes475-494/diatribes493.htm

Oversexed Arnold Schwarzenegger Gets A handful Of British Talk Hosts!
"Riot Fuel" by Eightheadz, creator of 8BM.com During his promotional visit to Britain this week Arnold Schwarzenegger groped Denise Van Outen on the Big Breakfast and behaved in a similarly oversexed and over here fashion with a clearly panicked Melanie Sykes on ITV's Celebrity.

The Sun in England newspaper reports that Sykes was chatting with Arnold when, as cameras rolled, he grabbed her around the waist.
She pushed his hand away, saying: "Get your hands off me - I'm scared."

I don’t blame her. Any actor who excels at playing barbarians and robots and has trouble understanding English is not the kind of guy that I want to have to tell to get his hands off my ass.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Arnold admitted he touched without asking

Bill Clinton admitted consensual touching.

Glad pinching a woman's ass is no big deal to you.

[Brian Sweat]

There is no evidence that Clinton ever molested anyone.

He had consensual sex with women. There is a big difference. Your anagrams are starting to show.

[Classical_Liberal]

37. freeper allegation

.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Classical_Liberal]

64. The DU rules state the opposite

Send and alert.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

66. you're quite welcome to it

trouble is Ken Starr and several million bucks prove it's utter fiction. :hi:

[Karenina]

67. This is beyond comprehension.

Some months ago when the walnut stuffed condom was in Britain promoting his new film HE ASSAULTED HIS INTERVIEWER ON CAMERA. HALLO????

[Timefortruth]

74. You should be sorry you brought it up.

Because if you don't understand the difference then why are you here?

[DealsGapRider]

80. I understand the difference.

One groper was a Republican, one groper was a Democrats. Blindly partisan Republicans will excuse one groper while excoriating the other for the exact same thing. Blindly partisan Democrats will excuse one groper while excoriating the other for the exact same thing. It's called reflexive, unthinking partisanship, and neither party has a monopoly on reactionary hypocrites.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

97. Now where was the proof that Clinton was a groper given that Arnold

admitted it?

men who can't distinguish between a consensual act and a non consensual act worry me immensely. Especially when they bring up the hypocrisy strawman.

[KayLaw]

24. Whom?

Whom did Bill Clinton admit to assaulting sexually?

[DealsGapRider]

60. Last I checked...

...people on this board weren't waiting until Arnold had admitted to the groping to attack him for it. The accusations alone were enough. And the accusations were there for the Big Dog for years.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

83. Did you ever consider that some of us are here in LA and are related

to agents whose talent have come back from sets complaining that actors assaulted them?

I am...the person I spend 99.9% of my free time has fielded many complaints from talent who knew they would never work again if they made an issue of it.

[DemLikr]

210. Life is full of uncomfortable and difficult choices. It is unfortunate

that so many women, whom you refer to as "talent," choose career over integrity and make the decision to allow a known physical assaulter to remain free to repeat this alleged behavior over and over again.

Sometimes, as grownups, we have to make decisions that have less than perfect, fairy-tale outcomes. Perhaps the better choice would have been to file charges. Just making a suggestion. If I offend, I apologize.

Doesn't that suck Isn't life less than just peachy all the time?

[salin]

218. damn victims. Its their fault. By the way.. the sliming of arnold is so

unfair.

[DemLikr]

227. Uhmhmm...yeah, that's what I said. not. again.

Life is full of uncomfortable, grey, not black and white, choices.

If I offend I apologize.

[salin]

247. you do. But don't appologize to me

do it to any victims of any assualt that you treat with no compassion because they do not chose to lose their income in order to go to the police, but they still have to deal with the aftermath.

I am still unclear how we went from putting a guy in the governor's mansion - who has no political experience and few connections - so who when he makes his appointments will likely defer to selections suggested by his top political advisor... former governor Pete Wilson (and guess what - his views aren't so friendly) - who is likely to sexually harrass slews of women staffers; to blaming women in hollywood who have likely been groped - at least one case bordering or passing assualt - for not having the courage to risk losing their livelihood by going to the authorities?

At the least the sustained pattern of behavior - suggest this is ongoing. Just as it was inevitable (at least in my mind) that Clinton would cheat in the WH, it is inevitable that Arnold will continue harassing women who work in that vicinity. The difference is consensual, or knowingly putting women into a likely hostile work environment. ANd not giving a damn.

Because the guy is kinda moderate. Never mind, of course, that his advisors - and those who will likely select all top appointees - are rightwing republicans.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

239. Yeah let's see..should I feed myself or go bankrupt accusing Arnold?

I will either lack integrity or nourishment and a roof over my head when I am through.

I really should avoid the Faustian bargains and live out of a shopping cart more often.

[Bandit]

57. Ah-nold says what he did is fact ~ Clinton says it is lies about him.

That is the difference. You repeat lies as fact about Clinton but want to give ah-nold a pass. :crazy:

[Karenina]

163. This is an incident from 2000

Please just go look at this page before reading the rest of this thread.

http://www.celebritysexnews.com/newsitems/arnoldtittytwister.shtml

Arnold Schwarzenegger: I'm da titty twister!

Arnold Schwarzenegger (December 11, 2000) If an incredible and amusing report coming out of the UK last week is true, we may finally know why Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger gets along so well with those randy Kennedy boys. According to British TV host Anna Richardson, the lecherous action star pulled her onto his knee at the end of an interview she was conducting with him, demanded to know if she'd had a boob job, then pinched one of her nipples.

It was a bit of a shock for the chesty host of the British television show Big Screen. She told the UK tabloid The Sun that the incident made her feel angry and embarrassed, but also a little helpless. "I wanted to say, 'You dirty bastard.' But you can’t tell a powerful man like him to fuck off."


"He kept saying how fantastic I looked and staring at my boobs," complained Richardson. "When I went to shake his hand he pulled me on to his knee, saying 'I really want to know if your breasts are real.'"
...Anna says she stood up then and told him "You’re making me nervous." But Arnold told her to relax and pulled her back on his knee. Finally, he let her up, and according to Anna, "patted my bum as I went off."

A TV insider who was among seven other people present for the interview backed up Anna’s claims: "Everyone was in shock. He appeared obsessed with Anna’s boobs." But Arnold's UK spokesman shrugged it off, telling The Sun, "I don’t know anything about this particular incident but Arnie is a big flirt, as is Anna.

That may be the case, but it's a hell of a way to charm a babe, and Arnold is a married man. So no one can say for sure if there will be any further repercussions, but given Anna's embarrassment and anger over the incident, this could well be the one time that Arnold won't be back.

[Solomon]

2. No! We should be thoroughly enjoying him getting his just rewards.

And there are plenty of other people who believe in the things you want from a politician. Arnie isn't the only one. No matter what his personal views are, he will work to give the state of Calif. to Bush. So I say f**k 'im. The racist bastard.

[Classical_Liberal]

20. Arnold was not in favor of the impeachment assault against

Bill Clinton.

I really believe that Davis and Bustumante need to campaign positive to beat Arnold.

Or if you do go negative you need to talk about issues more. Like the fact that Arnold is supported by Pete Wilson, and wants to dismantle the Environmental Protection agency.

This type of politiking is bad news for both parties, and the election process in the US.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Defending Arnold and bashing Davis and Bustamante again

Wonder what Arianna thinks of arnold's groping..you used to hide behind her while posting on this issue.

[Classical_Liberal]

47. Really read the rules of DU over again so you get it!

I was a supporter of Arianna till she quit. I haven't read any statements on the alleged groping. Frankly that tactic at the debates probably helped arnold and was a mistake.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

86. What rule have I broken? The one that says I can't call you on defending

arnold while slamming Bustamante and Davis?

I will certainly leave it to the discretion of the mods and admin but it doesn't change anything.

[Classical_Liberal]

89. You alleged I was a republican.

and that I was dishonest in my support of Arianna. You implied I was a disruptor which is against the rules. I'll leave it to the mods as well.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

100. I never said or alleged any such thing. You slam Davis and Bustamante

while supporting anyone to unseat them. I am not the only person who has observed this.

[Classical_Liberal]

110. What does it imply when you claim I was hiding behind Arianna

?

[salin]

114. I read it to mean

that your more current take (Davis resign! even though it doesn't stop the recall) - works - whether intentional or not - against retaining the governors office. Thus the Ariana support reads to be always having been against davis and democratic control of the governership rather than about the strength of Ariana as a candidate.

[Classical_Liberal]

121. That is an allegation that I support Arnold(republican disruptor)

Which isn't true. Furthermore as you well know I assume that Bustumante would be Governer and it would stop recall, and no-one proved otherwise, so you are basically doing it as well.

[salin]

126. Go back to your thread last night

someone linked a gazillion threads on the topic (okay gazillion is an exageration ;-) ) read through them.

Lets turn this around - show US where in the statute that it says that once in motion the recall can be stopped if the subject of the recall resigns.

You go find it since you are so adament that would happen.

[Classical_Liberal]

133. I wasn't adamant that would happen

I just thought that is what would happen which you now admit. There fore you mischaracterized me as wanting Davis to resign despite the fact that it wouldn't stop recall, ergo I am a supporter of Arnold(republican disruptor).

[salin]

134. Since more than one has perceived that

based on the pattern of the threads started and positions taken, perhaps if this is not true you might wonder if you framed things in a way that made it easy to misconstrue?

[Classical_Liberal]

150. The fact that more than one person violated the rule.

There have always been people who accused people who support independents and greens of being freepers. They are still violating the rules of du and will be reported it.

[salin]

166. believe it or not

thinking someone wants to throw an election (for a dem) is NOT the same as suggesting the person is a freep, and btw, greens are welcome here.

There are dems who get so POd at other dems that at times the call for this.

But when that happens - they should expect that other dems - on a dem board will call them on it.

I think that you are equating the frustration being pointed at you and the protestations of that approach (Davis resign) - as working towards defeat for dems because it works towards voter depression, with accusation of BEING something. While the protestations, I believe, are against the actions (stop advocating a!) with out the latter accusation (eg since you are advocating a you must be b).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

174. I think this poster has been so obvious about it that it is now a foregone

conclusion. People would have to be deaf dumb and blind not to notice every possible way she has attempted to undermine the democratic candidates in this race.

[Classical_Liberal]

181. I rest my case

How would Davis quiting and letting Bustumante be governer undermind Democratic candidates? Is Bustumante not a Democrat?

[salin]

186. Why do you believe that the recall would just stop?

Please document? Until you do I will not believe that this is the case.

[Classical_Liberal]

204. I did believe it.

and noone proved otherwise, and neither have you.

[salin]

208. And neither have you

fun little circle dance.

Show me what you base this belief on and prove otherwise.

[Classical_Liberal]

220. You are one that is doing the circle dance

trying to use my support of Bustumante to prove NSAM doesn't claim I am a disrupter when s/he has made done this several times now. The most obvious post in this thread said I should be tombstoned.

[salin]

251. *sigh*

Given that the californians who vote there, said repeatedly that the recall goes on, and that you chose to play the "prove it but I don't have to" card and keep passing on misinformation, that plays into the 'depress the democratic vote' for the recall... I stated last night, and again here, I can see how it could be read that you are feeding into those that do not wish to see the office stay out of republican hands.

Sometimes our message is intentional sometimes it is not. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't see how this feeds into the GOP strategy (of voter turnout supression).

Right now, there is a huge battle going on in California, and many are expending a great deal of energy to attempt to prevent a GOP takeover and another example of the emboldened GOP overturning election results that they don't like.

Things are getting very tough in that race and the numbers have suddenly dropped.

Try a little bit of empathy for a second - if you can.

You are the one - spending a great deal of time and $ in organizing efforts, GOTV efforts, things were picking up - then suddenly took a dive. The media is Arnold Arnold 24 hours a day. Up hill battle. Then suddenly in the time spent on a progressive board there are a series of threads that basically send teh message to other California DUers - "Just give up... its a lost cause... let him resign (and the GOP win)...."

When arguments are made to try to explain the damage that the message carries - they are decried.

Frustration spikes.

Then what would normally be a flamewar - is much hotter.

For some this isn't a theoretical game of political chess.

On a grander scale (though I no longer live in California), I see this race as exceptionally important. With each "win" tha that the GOP has pushed through (eg the first tax cut) they get emboldened and want to go further... and take more. So the Colorado redistricting - was pushed into Texas. Then 8 months after a general election a trumped up campaign (full of lies and distortions and a boatload of money) hires professional canvassers to get the signatures for a recall in California. Did you know that an effort has already begun in Wisconsin as well? Funny - he also recently was elected, but unlike Davis that Governor has not been in office for a year, has done nothing wrong criminally, and is taking the hit for the residual effects of the previous governors (republican).

My guess with each win - they go after another state, and another. When emboldened they have become amoral and ruthless, and clearly they don't give a damn about democracy.

Take that explanation for what it is worth - as to how your threads were read - and where I read the perspective is coming from that is reacting so vehemently to your posts.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

190. Since it has been clarified on DU that that is NOT the way the law works

in California more times than a CLARK thread has been started, that would be the first clue.

Since you have defended Arnold on this thread while ignoring that he admitted he was a masher, that would be the second clue.

since you have accused Davis of creating the energy crisis and helping ENRON by bailing them out which is a bald faced UNTRUTH that would be the third clue.

Since you have used the Juanita Brodderick unproven rape allegation against an admitted assault (arnold's) that would be the fourth clue..


Since you have called Gray Davis a Republican many times on this board, that would be a fifth clue.

Since you have said in other threads Arnold is a progressive, therefore there is no difference, that would be a 6th clue.

I rest MY case

[Classical_Liberal]

214. It hasn't been clarified more than a Clark thread

If it has I haven't seen it. Prove it.

I didn't ignore that he admitted he was a masher. He didn't admit he was a masher. He admitted to behaving badly, and I admitted that that was a legitmate greif in post in posts 73 and 160

he bailed out PG&E which does alot of business with Enron. Prove otherwise.

I used Juanita Broderick to support Arnolds right to innoncent until proven guilty. Arnold never admitted to assualt. He admitted to behaving badly.

[Terwilliger]

221. ACK!! AHH-nold a progressive?!?!

BWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

No freakin' way, CL!!!

[Classical_Liberal]

228. Where did I say Arnold was a progressive

Who are you talking too?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

145. Actually you are accusing me of accusing you..that is a personal

attack since you are claiming I said something I didn't.

[Classical_Liberal]

153. Here is your post

othingshocksmeanymore (1000+ posts)
Thu Oct-02-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #20

29. Defending Arnold and bashing Davis and Bustamante again



Wonder what Arianna thinks of arnold's groping..you used to hide behind her while posting on this issue.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

157. Yep and you hit the alert and the mods so far have let it stand

and you repeatedly slam Davis and Bustamante and have repeatedly defended the allegations against Arnold on this thread and previously pretended it was solely your support for Arianna that had you do so.

What's the problem? Truth hurts?

[Classical_Liberal]

164. What truth are you implying?

?

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

233. How many times are you going to tell me to have a nice angry lesbian day?

Is an angry lesbian tantamount to a feminazi? Just curious. And where have I used the word offended once?

So let me get this straight, you don't like Rush Limbaugh but you are happy to adopt his linguistic talents when they suit your needs?

I can't see much of a difference there. Perhaps you can distinguish for me if it doesn't offend you too much to do so.

[Cheswick2.0]

112. where Did NSMA say any of those things?

Wow, It really looks like you are protesting too much. You might want to watch that. People might start to beleive that you are a republican or something.

Actually you have identified yourself as a libertarian in the past and I take you at your word.

[mitchtv]

199. I'd say Arnold is "just as Good" as davis

is "republican enabling"

[Classical_Liberal]

222. Where did I say that

?

[mitchtv]

206. no wasn't it me who implied that?

or. it could have been at least 3 others i can think of

[Classical_Liberal]

225. Yeah and the mods were on the ball that day.,

.

[cally]

31. Umm, we know your opinions on this..nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Arnold is pro gay rights so we should let him admit to assaulting women

and give him a free pass and the governor's office?

What DOES make someone a mysogynist/rapist in your eyes if putting his had up women's dresses and grabbing their breasts without permission and fondling them after they repeatedly rebuke his advances doesn't?

Did he have to jump out of the bushes with a knife while yelling I HATE WOMEN to meet your litmus test?


Since I know you are a gay man, all this does is demonstrate to me how many gay men have mysogyny lurking in their psyche under ther gayness...I say this as a gay woman who has observed it for decades including the dirty looks and poor treatment I got from many men when accompanying my gay male friends to men's bars.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Now there's a thoughtful rebuttal

I don't buy that he's a rapist/misogynist

He admitted to numerous unwanted advances. He admitted to touching women who told him no.

Please defend your position with something other than an ad hominem attack

[mmm]

34. When you order an ad hominen attack you usually get one

order chicken, get chicken

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. Where is there an ad homine? The poster thinks it's no big deal

for a woman to be assualted in an elevator. The poster thinks it's no big deal for a woman to have her dress reached under. He thinks this does not equate to rape (assault) or mysogyny ...how so?

[smirkymonkey]

195. Agreed - I am pretty sick and tired of

men determining what is acceptable and unacceptable when it comes to men's behavior toward women. As for the poster, you are completely unqualified to state what is and is not "no big deal".

Arnold is a flaming misogynist - it is not about having a strong sex drive, it's about humiliation and lack of respect for a group of people that comprise 50-plus% of the population.

[DemLikr]

198. I am sick and tired of responses that contain no relation to my original

post and substitute name calling and vague accusations and other such bullshit for reasoned discussion.

I apologize if I've offended you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

209. I absolutely responded to your original post. You didn't like it

and can't defend your original post. That is where the conflict lies.
There was NOTHING vague about my accusations. I made my reasons for them clear. You are stuck without a reasonable response because you don't have one.

[Name removed]

216. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

226. Last I noticed that wasn't a condition for my responding to you

Is it ANGRY LESBIAN DAY? Is this one more of your posts that will get removed that you will accuse me of hitting the alert on when I won't? I am not hitting the alert...I prefer for an ignorant comment to speak for itself.

BTW, I thought you believed in free speech. So when I exercise my right to it, it's a problem?

[DemLikr]

235. Hi Nothing. So it's OK for U to refer to me being a gay man...BUT

you can't handle a lesbian reference?

Just asking...all normal apologies and hesitations and disclaimers apply.

BTW, I'm currently doing artwork for a lesbian bar. I love the owner and she loves me. You're not her, are you? If so, I take back everything. If not, I don't.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

245. I didn't say any such thing..I referred to you being a gay man bacause

as I recall, you are quite dogged in your perception of the injustice of homophobic statements but don't seem to have the same acute sense of awareness where women are concerned.

You don't seem to perceive (based on your original post) unwanted groping and tearing at one's clothes to be mysogynistic and instead of actually explaining your position, the best you can do is tell me to have a nice angry lesbian day as though the fact that I point out the contradictions in your perceptions make me anything rather than you.

[DemLikr]

38. Nope. I've read more than enough of your posts.

I don't play with you anymore. It's not good for my aura.

But...have a nice day.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. and I have read enough of your to know that you can justify terrible

behavior and language towards women and thier bodies quite easily.
I'm not playing. I am serious as a fucking heart attack.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

213. Actually ask the mods, I haven't hit the alert on you once in this thread

I would have much preferred for your responses to stand so people could see how void they are of an actual point.

Honestly....in fact, if there is a MOD or ADMIN reading this thread, I would hope they would look at the MOD forum, read it and back me up on this..I haven't hit the alert on you a single time.

Obviously someone else is reading your posts and repeatedly watching you break the rules, since your position is indefensible. I would much rather address your indefensible position in broad daylight, where others can read and learn.

[DemLikr]

219. Hmmm...that'w why I ASKED if you were the alerter, instead of

ACCUSING first, as is your wont.

Sorry if the question offended. I apologize.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

230. Where did I accuse first? You completely dismiss the fact that Arnold

assaulted women in your first post by stating you don't believe his is a rapist/mysogynist when his behavior of pulling a women'sbathing suit off in an elevator, sticking his hand up women's dresses, grabbing their breasts and ALL THE WHILE doing so when they told him not to IS AN INDICATION that a man has no respect for the wishes of a woman where her body is conerned, thereby making him a mysogynist.

Unless he just really likes to grab women who are unwilling and are repulsed by him and is just trying to show them his love and respect by doing so.

[DemLikr]

237. Ahhh....you're so cute when you're angry. Bet you're cute all the time.

Group hug, no?

[Cheswick2.0]

119. come one, answer the question

what does someone have to do to a woman to be considered a mysogenist? Anything short of rape and murder seem to be too small an offense.

[DemLikr]

207. When, specifically, did he admit to these specific acts?

Just asking. If I offended you by challenging you to back up your accusations and statements, please accept my apology.

[mmm]

27. that's quite a statement

I don't really give a rats ass about gay issues, nontheless,
I find it hard to believe that most gay men hate women.
That is silly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Given that the word MOST is not in my post..maybe you should re-read

It's silly to see things that aren't there.

[mmm]

40. I say lay into 'em!

Dems ain't gonna win by taking the high road.
If it's true, use it.

[cally]

52. Then you don't support humananity

You don't care about gay rights then why do you post here? All humans disserve respect and 'rights.' We can't pick and choose among us. I support all of us and I give a 'rat's ass' and will work for all to attain rights. I thought that what being a progressive means.

[nostamj]

4. Imagine this...........

AS is running as a Democrat..........

trying to imagine the FULL TILT HYSTERIA that the RWs would be heaping. IMAGINE the 24/7 cable news slamming.

REMEMBER that he would be FORCED out of the race.

he's getting off so easy for the shit he's pulled.

he's 100% unqualified to hold the office.

if CA elects him.... it's pretty much over.

[flamingyouth]

5. Not at all

In fact, I've been hearing similar things about him for years now. If I have any criticisms of this tactic, it's only that it's been WAY TOO LATE.

[realFedUp]

6. Sexual harassment

is against the law.
This isn't just a matter of Arnold playing around
outside his marriage. It isn't a matter of sex.
It's a matter of power over others.

This isn't about politics, except that Arnold is
running for Governor.

[Caution]

7. allegations of this type of behavior

have been floating around for decades regarding Schwarzenegger. Many women are afraid to come forward on this type of thing, but when they see someone who assaulted them moving into a position of political power they may feel a need sickened by it and feel that the time is finally right to come forward, and as shown by the recent troubles of the Catholic church, once one person bravely steps forward it emboldens the others who have been treated in that way. These allegations are serious examples of misconduct. The fact that there is a pattern is even more troubling.

(and the right-winger says: "and how can you justify defending Clinton?"

in Clinton's case with Lewinsky, it was a consenting relationship. In the case of Paula Jones, if the conduct was as described it was deplorable, though he didnt (IIRC) physically assault the woman as Schwarzenegger is alleged to have done.

[Skwmom]

Arnold is a pig who sexually assaults women.

So the truth is finally being told. It's about time.

[JackDragna]

8. You should buy it.

Arnold has a nickname..the "Octopus", from his repeated groping of women. Read more about him here:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/showbiz/articles/6270067?source=Daily%20Mail

If he just liked sex and joints, that's one thing. Schwarzenegger, however, habitually gropes and fondles women.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. No I AM NOT!!!!!! They attack and smear every Democrat...

barring DINO-Dixie Zell Miller!

Arnie has slandered Gray Davis by lying about his record!!!

Don't tell me about feeling "slimy" or anything like that! This is how the Right Wingers play and we should play their game!!!



:mad:


:kick:

[displacedtexan]

12. Arnold's A Fucking Idiot!

and i mean that literally. just what, exactly, did we do to make this freak nazi grope women and humiliate his family?

[realFedUp]

13. Does your nick say Dem Licker?

Or Dem Liker? hard to tell. :-)

[DemLikr]

23. That's the point...I like to lick the Dems I like!

;)

After receiving their explicit written permission first, of course.

[Brian Sweat]

14. Here's why.

Molesting women should be grounds for recalling a governor. Davis is being recalled for no good reason and the Republicans want to replace him with a candidate that comes with grounds for impeachment included.

The irony of this should warm your heart.

[cally]

15. The guy gropes women without their consent !!

Arnold has no respect for anyone but himself. This is not a consensual affair but abuse of power. He gets off on abusing women and fans. I hope California voters hear the story.

No woman wants to have her breasts checked to see if they are real without her consent. Arnold is scum.

[rucky]

17. The thought did cross my mind...

I like to think that we are above the fray, BUT we didn't start this pissing match. Unfortunately, hitting below the belt is the only way to keep it a fair fight.

In case you missed it: Here's a timely article...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/10/02_double.html

[hatrack]

19. Not particularly

Arnold may say he's pro-gay rights, pro-choice, pro-education, pro-environment (hysterical coming from a man with a fleet of 7 Hummers).

The point is that it doesn't matter what he says. He has no track record, no public service and there is no way that we can assume anything about any of his oh-so-moderate mouthings. It's simply beyond proof.

What I do know is that the slimy behavior now rebounding to his detriment is behavior he chose to engage in. The fact that he's running under the banner of the Party of Family Values & Personal Responsibility only underscores the intrinsic hypocrisy of his own disgusting behavior.

[On the Road]

21. I INITIALLY Cringed After AS Announced His Candidacy

but not today. A lot of the initial criticism was pretty shallow and partisan, IMO -- if he had run as a Dem, it would have been much more muted.

Some of the things he's accused of today -- now there's another story. This is repeated sexual harrassment, if not sexual assault. I can't imagine anyone on a gubernatorial level getting away with it any more. And as another poster observed, it's probably grounds for an immediate recall should he be elected.

[salin]

22. Attitudes towards women (as entitlement meat)

and accepting those attitudes - is what helps keep certain lockerroom atmospheres alive that contribute to the phenomenon of date and acquaintence rape.

I read those accounts - and cringed. I was in the elevator (as I read it) with the woman - and shrunk.

A few years ago - I was the victim of Acquaintance rape. On the surface college allaround good guy. How does one gibe the "good guy" with one who can carry the attitudes around towards women that allow one to think that forced sex is one's right? Well - I offer you Arnold... we minimize the behavior.. sure its boorish.. and sure its pretty clear he still does it... and sure we know he is likely to do it to women working in Sacramento around the governor (if he were governor)... but you know - in the whole scheme of things, he's not so bad... We can just over look it. Right - minimizing the behavior because its just part of the picture. Sad thing - in the more extreme cases (such as rape) for the victim it isn't 'just a part of the picture' - it is a physical and emotional drama that often alters the victims' lives. Not acquainting Arnold's behavior to rape -but to how we condone attitudes towards women (I am entitled to touch her body.. extension.. I am entitled to f*** her body)... which lets certain attitudes remain - just under the surface - socially acceptable.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

109. Funny..no one seems to have the guts to address this post

[salin]

123. seems the only response

is the substanceless... but what about CLinton... did you support the Impeachment??? Different situations.

BTW, had the Paula Jones case been stronger - then actually yes, I would have supported the impeachment.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

136. But I really AM concerned about men on DU JUSTIFYING the acts

themselves.

Let's leave Arnold out of it.

IF the allegations are true, the thread starter does not think this qualifies as rape/mysogeny even though one charge was his attempt to remove a person's bathing suit in an elevator.

Another good Democrat up at the top thinks "pinching a woman's ass" is not big deal.

I'm truly disgusted.

[Cheswick2.0]

161. I am disgusted and saddened too

I thought at the very least the left "got it" on this issue.

[DemLikr]

203. Is a grope legally equivalent to rape? Just asking?

We're talking about specific accusations. Can we maintain a certain intellectual distance?

No? didn't think so?

[salin]

211. who has done this?

show me this? Didn't think that you could.

Now - can you "hear" the description regarding to entitlement attitude towards women that has been described and explain in your words why some are concerned about this? That little exercise would let you get behind a different perspective and try to understand it before you belittle it by claiming something that was never stated or implied.

[DemLikr]

224. Please see post #136, in which Nothing implies the equivalence

thanks.

I apologize if I offend.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

217. Grope= assault and assault is a close cousin of rape

in terms on maximum and minimum penalties in California depending on the degree of assault...just so you know.

[salin]

223. ya but for those

who think that its the victim's fault (collectively, for not ruining their own career to report on arnie) anyway, I doubt any distinctions or definitions are of much interest.

[Dhalgren]

148. I'll address this post.

Salin, you are absolutely right. I had a friend who was involved in a court case, where one person sued another (both male) for assault. The defentant's defense was "I only placed my hand on his chess, I didn't assault him." The judge very quickly told the defendant that "any time you place you hands in an unwanted fashion upon the person of another, it is assault." Now, it makes no difference what Mr. Swartzenegger's (sp) reasons were, he is guilty of assault. The fact that the victims were women and he was just "being a guy" is sickening - and of no pertenence. This is not an issue of "sexual misconduct" - this is assault, sexual or otherwise.

[salin]

173. It saddens me how we are trained to try to diminish

these actions. Even when we are the victims. Because my incident was not at gun or knife point, I initially refered to it as nonviolent (to distinguish it from the other). Finally someone pointed out to me: You were pinned down - both hands - by someone with a 100 lb weight advantage... they rammed part of their anatomy inside of you... this is more violent than most "assualts". The description jarred me. How the heck did I diminish it to that point - almost protecting the rapist ... because perhaps it wasn't quite as bad as the stranger rape with the knife. How? Because this is how we are socialized.

And as much as victims may diminish it; and society even more so; imagine how diminished it is by the perpetrators. For many - completely diminished.

Sadly, I see some of that language on this thread.

[West Coast Democrat]

25. NO

I think Arnold should be put under oath! :-)

[prolesunited]

26. I hope you are not one of THOSE men.

"obviously a lover of all things sensual" <-- Oh, so he's just a lover of all things sensual! So that would excuse his behavior. I don't think so.

No revelations have come forth that he is a rapist, so why are you throwing that strawman out there? He ADMITTED he groped women.

As a woman, you lay one hand on my breasts or ass without my permission, you are guilty of sexual assault. It IS that plain and simple! Do you think it is acceptable for men to touch women sexually because the "love" them in a sensual way?

As far as being a misogynist, not sure if I would go that far because if you define it in the sense that he hates women, I would say no. HOWEVER, his actions clearly show that he has NO respect for women and their feelings. To me, his feeling of entitlement — that women are there for his pleasure and amusement — clearly shows that he does not know how to truly care for women.

Personally, I'm sick of this sexist pig type behavior and will not make excuses for it.

[DemLikr]

65. so where are all the lawsuits and convictions for all this groping and

disrespect?

Just asking.

I think some sexist pigs, be they men or women, would make great governors. Just depends.

[prolesunited]

76. So, what are you saying

These women are lying? They are making it up? And I'm sure if they did file charges or lawsuits, you would be saying they dressed or behaved provocatively and deserved it. Or perhaps they are just gold-diggers going after a celebrity's money?

Is it any wonder that women are reluctant to pursue these matters? Instead of people acknowledging they are a victim of a crime, they are forced to defend themselves and their morality is put on trial.

"Sexist pigs would make great governors." :eyes: So, did you throw that men or WOMEN in there to some how imply that I fit in there? I don't think sexist pigs are fit to govern any more than racists or gay bashers. If you can't respect the inherent dignity and worth of each individual, you are not worthy of leadership and will not be able to govern for the good of all.

[salin]

82. I think he is saying that men with an "entitlement" attitude towards

womens' bodies (touching. grabbing. attempting to strip.) are cool for office if their other policies are okay.

Isn't it nice being "meat" once again? Women's lib? Oh so 70s.

[prolesunited]

99. At least no one

has called us feminazis... yet! ;-)

At least his and Classical Liberal's positions are in the minority here. We've come a long way, but apparently not far enough.

[salin]

111. but baby, how much farther do we have to go?

I am getting weary.

[Eloriel]

167. They're goddamn not minority enough

And I'm personally sick of it, and I'm sick of DU's FAILURE to adequately enforce its own rules against sexism.

This is one of the most disgusting threads I've read in a while. Disgusting people making disgusting, sexist remarks and defending a disgusting excuse for a male human being.

Did I mention I'm disgusted?

Eloriel

[NewYorkerfromMass]

197. Better make that: "a disgusting excuse for a human being"

No need to participate in the sexism yourself.

[DemLikr]

175. I'm saying if one is assaulted, one is wise to file charges.

and very much justified in doing so. What is so hard to understand about that statement?

I don't know if any of these incidents actually took place, or if so, what the circumstances were; unlike you of course, who obviously was there on the spot taking notes.

I respect women in general and love many personally...I expect them to be grownups just like I have to try to be. This attitude that groped women are too helpless to retaliate legally is ridiculous and disrespects them as responsible adults.

Women are equal to men in every way. I'm sure you agree.

[salin]

231. I am very glad

that my male colleagues, friends and family... show a slightly different kind of respect to myself and other females than what is reflected in your views on this topic, including placing the blame on victims and being unable to acknowledge that the fear of second assualt/rape at the hands of the system or fear of the retribution that can be life threatening (ability to earn money in the future) can be unsurmountable for women).

Your view is curiously naive towards the power dynamics in society.

[salin]

78. Issue of power

physical or material (as in can ruin one's career). Look at who he targets - there is a power differential. And he pushes right up to the legal line (we assume) without crossing it (though at least one of the descriptions sounded ongoing - and thus crossing into sexual harrassment in the workplace). With a weak case, and an end that likely ruins one career - who is likely to bring those lawsuits? We have the evidence - it happened - each of the reported stories in the Times piece is verified. But no law suits. So trying to pretend that there isn't a problem because there is no lawsuits is faulty logic.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

106. Since several of the women are in the industry Arnold is in, they feared

the inability to ever work again. Gee, I suppose they shold give up their career and go to a district attorney that won't be able to proscute the case since no one will testify against Arnold.

[DemLikr]

179. Life is full of unpleasant choices and decisions. We're all responsible

for the ones we make. Including Arnold, who is now paying for the choices he made.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

194. Really how is he paying?

[salin]

215. get this... he's paying because he is being unfairly slimed

now I find that funny. If he is being unfairly slimed... than he isn't paying - he is being maligned. Somewhere the logic got a bit... contorted?

[Cheswick2.0]

171. ooooh that is such a Rush-like defense

They didn't press charges, they must be lying! Rush would be proud

[DemLikr]

177. I didn't say anyone is lying. I asked where the charges are/were?

Can't answer the question, so you compare me to Rush. Typical

Do you think women in general are too weak/stupid/hysterical to respond to inappropriate behavior with appropriate legal action?

[Cheswick2.0]

193. yada yada yada

No matter how much you yada yada, we know what you are saying. Again, Rush would be proud.

[Eloriel]

156. I'm ALWAYS concerned when any man says how much he

LOVES women. Most of the time, what he means (tho doesn't usually even understand it himself) is that he loves USING women. Love 'em and leave 'em. He thinks it's cool. That's a form of misogyny.

Using women is misogyny. And yes, if Arnold is groping women, he IS a misogynist.

Eloriel

[BurtWorm]

28. Arnold is an idiot who should not be governor of a state.

And Californians need to be woken up to that, apparently.

[Kanola]

30. Arnold has multiple allegations of sexually harassing women

versus Clinton getting a blow job from Monica that was consensual. Sexual harassment is a serious charge. I don't care how liberal he is on social issues he is a moronic robot groper who does not know how to run CA govt. He will fail miserably like Jesse Ventura.

[IrateCitizen]

35. Not in the least, because Arnold is Pete Wilson's sock puppet

Arnold has decided to associate himself with some rather dubious characters within the CA GOP -- people who are willing to subvert democratic process itself in order to advance their own highly misguided cause.

In choosing to be their "front man", he has opened himself up to any and all criticism that comes his way. I'd rather see his reputation completely and utterly destroyed than to see the entire state of California subjected to the absolute SNAFU that would result from The Governator (and a rehashing of Pete Wilson's failed policies that only benefit old white guys in golf carts).

[stopbush]

36. Hey, I'd love to Slime Ah-nohld myself

but I HATE standing in line...

[LeahMira]

39. There are many who ...

BUT, Arnold is pro-gay rights, pro-choice, and obviously a lover of all things sensual, including the use of cannibas. I like everything about those attitudes. I don't buy that he's a rapist/misogynist, and I don't see how these last-minute "revelations" make him any different person than he was yesterday.

There are many people who are pro all the right things and who also are "lovers of all things sensual" and yet are not womanizers. There are even plenty of people who are better qualified than Arnold to be governor of California.

What bothers me is how little Republicans seemed to be concerned and how much they concerned themselves with President Clinton's womanizing.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. This ain't "sliming"

Sliming is intimating there is something insidious about a candidate by positing unproven innuendo and lies.

This is just Arnolds behavior coming back to haunt him.

Besdides, you haven't seen sliming yet until post Oct 7. If Arnold gets in, he's being recalled. THEN the slime will hit the fan.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecallArnold/
:nuke:

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

62. If it's true then it ain't sliming

not even close. Arnold made his slime, he can sleep in it.

[Classical_Liberal]

81. If it can't be proven it is, just as it WAS against Bill Clinton

.

[salin]

101. have you read the LA Times story?

each case was verified by a second party. They were very, very careful in what they included in the article.

Or are we to go back to the days where women are just supposed to be silent about these things be it groping or rape, because in the end it is always 'he said/she said' and therefor always "unsubstantiated"?

[Dover]

45. His groping is NOT sensual (especially for the woman). It's about

POWER OVER OTHERS. How very GOPish of him. He would fit right in, oddly enough, with puritanical Ashcroft. He's just a different side of the same sick coin.

[Snellius]

46. I agreed until I actually read the L.A. Times expose

It's not just the groping. It's what it reveals about his character. This guy really is a gross, insensitive, megalomaniac barbarian.

[maggrwaggr]

48. anyone who gropes a woman should immediately get punched out

but he's a celebrity, so no one says anything.

It's just wrong.

And it's his own mud he's getting covered with, so who cares? I say sling it all back at him.

there's more mud where that came from

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. Women said it. He acknowledged he did it. 80 million dollars and no

charges or lawsuits brought against Clinton on the Juanita Brodderick allegations....even Richard Scaife wouldn't finance her case as he did Paula Jones.

[AP]

54. Arnold is pro-shifting wealth from middle class to the wealthiest corps/

individuals.

are you familiar with the property tax issue in CA?

Who cares what he thinks about the social issues? Anyway, he's just saying that he's socially liberal so he can get elected, so he can shift wealth to the wealthiest, which is the real issue.

[nolabels]

55. Everything about that I seem to know about him now seems to ........

point in that direction, that he is a slime, other have been a chemically induced award winning body builder I see nothing that he as ever personally achieved of significance. This dude is a bag of gadgets sold by marketers.

If you can convince me that his recent heart surgery were not complications of the different chemicals he used in his experience as a body builder then I will give to you he accomplished something. Otherwise he has done nothing but promote selfishness, and peddle trash to unwitting people.

[sfecap]

59. Nope. Not at all.

He is a pig.

He deservs to be outed. I hope all of the women he has abused come forward.

Fuck him, take him out...

[R Hickey]

69. I feel guilty...

The thing is, if he is personally in favor of all these things; pro-gay, pro-choice and pro-pot, why doesn't he say something about how his personal values will translate into progressive legislation.

The fact is, that having backers like Poppy (Zero Tollerance) Bush, Oran Hatch,(just inrtoduced a law allowing immigrants to be President), not only makes Arnold a total hypocrite, but makes me extremely suspicious of him and his true motives.

For those reasons, I am able to temporarily overcome my guilt, and for a limited time only, offer a link to some 'interesting' pictures of Arnold, brought to you by the good people at www.rotten.com

[mandyky]

70. Who's sliming him? The women went to the press

If this is what takes him out - so be it. After all, he is running as a Republican, and wingnuts who vote for him are hypocrits.

[realFedUp]

94. The women didn't go to the press...the press contacted them

let's not kill the messengers coz you don't like the message.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

117. Hi friend...re-read the article. The press contacted the women in this

case. Three reporters worked on this story and in each incident the women had told relatives or friends immediately or shortly thereafter that it had occurred.

In almost every case, there was a credible fear of retribution or blacklisting.

[noiretextatique]

75. hardly....

this is a case of his own behavior coming back to haunt him, and it casts some serious doubts about his character. a "lover of all things sensual" should check with the object of his groping before he gropes, don't you think?

[Classical_Liberal]

79. Some of us have memories of unsubstantiated allegations against Bill

Now a poster showed me where Arnold apologized so the allegations are no longer unsubstantiated.

[salin]

84. actually each case in the LA Times story

was verified by a second party. Thus substantiated.

Wonder how many stories they ran across without the second verification - now running with those would be unsubstantiated.

Or can only the accused groper be the one to substantiate the story?

[Classical_Liberal]

88. There were people who backed up Clinton's accusers as well

.

[salin]

91. have you read the story?

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/la-me-women2oct02,1,2313555.story?coll=la-home-headlines

If not, read it and report back.

[Ripley]

77. Funny, whenever things are really crashing down on the Repubs,

South-bashing and women-bashing threads show up right on cue.

These are not last-minute revelations. They have been documented for years (don't have the links handy). Why did he apologize today? I saw him do it on CNN in a very strange statement...first he said dirty politics were being done to him and the stories in the papers were lies. Then he apologized for "rowdy bad behavior that he felt was playful and he was sorry if he offended anyone." Gee he has a tendency to do and say this....I thought she wanted it...It was fun for me!

And as far as Juanita Brodderick, if Clinton really raped her (or whatever sexual harrassment she claimed), why after the incident did she invite him to her daughter's wedding reception?

It's disturbing that so many DUers attack the females ALWAYS as being liars, gold-diggers, not innocent etc. in sexual harrassment or rape cases. I guess they really don't think it happens. Wake up.

edit: make that Kathleen Willey not Brodderick above.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

85. Juanita Brodderick invited Clinton to her daughter's wedding reception?

Damn! I never heard that before- I'm sure there are a lot of Freepers on here today, why don't you post a link and shove it in their faces? The Juanita Brodderick rape is their favorite Clinton smear.

[Ripley]

87. Sorry, I edited that...It was Kathleen Wiley, not Brodderick.

Who invited him to her daughter's wedding, after he supposedly groped her.

I'll try to find link.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

120. O.K. Juanita Brodderick never had corroboration

and that was my understanding of why her accusations never made it anywhere.

[salin]

129. was this the accusation

that she got a friend to back it up, who then denied it, and when she wouldn't go back to backing it up Starr stuck all of his legal dogs on her? Julie Hyatt Steele? Or a different incident. If it was Steele, then I would say that what she was willing to endure to be on the record saying that she was asked by Willey to verify to a reporter and she did as a favor and then regreted it and retracted it, suggests that the retraction was the truth.

[Mandate My Ass]

90. There's a lot of misogyny on these boards

more than I would have believed possible. Some are trolls obviously, but there's a definite "boys-will-be-boys and women should just get over it" attitude in surprising numbers around here.

Arnold has displayed a marked misogyny towards women even without the numerous groping incidents or dipping into the sexual pecadillos of the past. His performance in the debates was quite telling and having more power would only exacerbate his inability to appropriately deal with any female who is in the least confrontational.

[Classical_Liberal]

96. I am not saying boys will be boys

Did you support impeachment against Bill Clinton?

[Mandate My Ass]

103. Nice strawman

the topic of this thread is Arnold the admitted serial molester and that makes him a bad choice for public office.

Why not start a Clinton is a rapist thread and I'll see you on that one?

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

182. So let me get this straight. You don't believe Clinton is a rapist but you

have now invoked the name of Juanite Brodderick (who accused Clinton of rape)on this thread more times than it has been invoked without an accompanying tombstone in a manner that suggested her allegations of rape against him had validity and that anyone who pointed out that an 80 million dollar investigation turned up nothing was somehow being a hypocrite (the strawman du jour).

Is contadicting yourself a hobby?

[Classical_Liberal]

200. Boy was that twisted logic

Infact I was suggesting that if we don't believe those allegations, why should be believe the allegations against Arnold. Someone else said it was on camera, others said he admitted to an unspecified wrong-doing, which would satisfy me that it was not the same, but just for having the temerity to think the allegations might be false you accuse me again of being a distrupter, which I will again report.

[prolesunited]

104. What does that have to do with the issue at hand?

THAT was consensual. If a woman wants to give you a BJ, there's nothing wrong with it. If you grab a women's breast without her consent, there IS something wrong with that and it's called sexual assault.

Why are you having trouble seeing the distinction?

[Classical_Liberal]

142. Clinon was also accused of rape, sexual harassment and groping

or don't you remember that? Do Juanita Broderick, Paula Jones, and Kathleen Willy ring a bell?

[salin]

107. So whenever any man

is accused of sexual harrasment, date rape, or anything else, unless he admits to it, he is given a pass (its just alleged - and thats what they did to clinton - thats what it is always about, ya know).

Well give us all our aprons and send us back to the kitchen. Bill Clinton has become the shield for men behaving badly.

How cute.

[Classical_Liberal]

141. So you think the impeachment was just?

?

[salin]

149. strawman

but answered above in a previous post.

[Classical_Liberal]

158. You said specifically men are hiding behind Bill Clinton

Do you think the allegations against Bill Clinton were true? That isn't a strawman. That is an honest question.

[salin]

176. I said

I respond to this question earlier in the thread.

And my response was refering to the tactic used above when questioning the current situation was not answered but responded with "Bill Clinton". Thus - I gave the scenario - that it appears that for some this becomes the new excuse to not have to answer anything because Clinton - on this thread - gets pulled out as a strawman.

[DemLikr]

205. "mysogynist," like "racist" has been robbed of its power by overuse

and its application to friend and foe alike. You just contributed to that lynguistic process.

Sorry if I offended you. I apologize.

[DemLikr]

183. Your response bears no relation to my original post.

:eyes:

[Cheswick2.0]

93. He groped woman against their will.... what more must he do?

What more must he do before you see him as a mysogenist? What if he molested and then intimidated your mother or sister?
Good grief.

[Ripley]

105. Obviously the only way Arnold can be wrong is if he makes a full

confession. Otherwise some people here will always give "the macho movie star" the benefit of the doubt and discredit the females.

What bothers me is that he is now admitting some of it and people continue to cheer him like "oh well, he says he respects women NOW, so who cares what he did a few years ago."

[dfong63]

118. he's still claiming "some of" the latimes report is untrue

ie, he's still trying to smear some of his accusers as liars.

he still doesn't "get it".

my 2c: if elected, Arnold should be required to undergo chemical castration.

[Karenina]

137. Let me say this again

Several <months> ago he ASSAULTED a British female interviewer IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS. I remember at the time seeing the pix plastered everywhere. The woman was NOT a happy camper. Meine Fresse, the American collective consciousness is in such a distressing state of "disconnect." :shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

147. sickening isn't it?

It is really sickening to come here and be assaulted by this mysogenist behavior. I understand that some third party people have a stake in trying to make Democrats and Republicans look the same, but this is ridiculous, trying to use Clinton to defend Ahh-nold!

[Classical_Liberal]

108. He is alleged to have done so

and admitted to bahaving badly. I am not an Arnold supporter. I do remember these allegations against Bill Clinton.

[noiretextatique]

113. do you remember the allegations against packwood too? nt

[Classical_Liberal]

125. Yes

but no-one is guilty until proven innocent and these allegations were dirty against Bill.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

131. the giant chimp has admitted guilt

that's the difference between him and bill clinton.

[Classical_Liberal]

139. He admitted he behaved badly

but didn't admit to specifics of the allegation.

[noiretextatique]

144. that's because he's a LIAR...DUH!!!!

and let's review what *really* happened. first he DENIED the allegations, then he blamed the opposition for trying to smear him, then he minimized the allegations by claiming he was "being playful" then he apologized for being playful and "behaving badly."
the inevitable conclusions: the giant chimp is a LIAR and a PIG...and he's not the least bit sorry.

[Classical_Liberal]

160. and I said that was a legitimate issue

. The smear campaign against people who object to unsubstantiated allegations being tossed around is immature beyond belief though.

[noiretextatique]

162. WTF are you talking about? if it's a legitimate issue

then, there is no "smear campaign" in this case.

[Classical_Liberal]

168. There is too read post 29

.

[noiretextatique]

180. seems more like a *personal* issue

between the two of you.

[Classical_Liberal]

238. I don't know NSMAM

So I don't think it is personal.

[Karenina]

178. ARNOLD's trangressions

ARE ON FILM for the whole world to see. These are NOT "allegations."

[nolabels]

115. I don't know if this is anything, maybe someone could read it

http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=341305&group=webcast

"ARHNULD," UNREPENTANT NAZI CANDIDATE FOR CA GOVERNORSHIP,UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY (english)
an informed reader 12:00pm Wed Aug 27 '03 (Modified on 9:04pm Wed Aug 27 '03)
article#341305

updated with others' articles they found about Arnold.
SCHWARTZENEGGER in on 2001 CA Energy/Enron meetings, why? & Quakenbush/W.Buffet; Rothschild connections, George H. W. Bush connections, unrepentant Nazi, campaign decided at Bohemian Grove, eugenics connections. . .more. . 15 SECTIONS

"ARHNULD," UNREPENTANT NAZI CANDIDATE FOR CALIFORNIAN GOVERNORSHIP, THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY



TABLE OF CONTENTS




I. FAMILY BACKGROUND, AND THE FAMILY HE MARRIED INTO IN THE UNITED STATES

II. EUGENICS CONNECTIONS

III.JESUITS AND NAZISM

IV. ARNOLD AS A PUPPET OF G.H.W. BUSH AND OTHER INTERNATIONALIST CRIME FAMILIES

V. ARNOLD FRIENDS WITH EX-NAZI KURT WALDHEIM; ARNOLD BUYS OFF THE WEISENTHAL CENTER TO THE TUNE OF 750,000 DOLLARS TO COVER UP HIS FATHER'S NAZI PAST--does it actually cost the Weisenthal Center $750,000 to conduct research on one person's past, or is that what they do anyway?

VI. ARNOLD DID SOME PHOTO OPS WITH TROOPS AT EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE CALIFORNIA AND WENT TO IRAQ THROUGH HIGH LEVEL SPONSORSHIP BEFORE HE DECLARED HIS CANDIDACY

VII. HIS FATHER'S NAZI PAST

VIII. ARNOLD AND ENRON: SCHWARTZENEGGER in on 2001 CA Energy/Enron meetings, why? & Quakenbush/W.Buffet

IX. ARNOLD AND WARREN BUFFET RELATIONSHIP

X. ARNOLD, BUFFET AND THE ROTHSCHILDS IN A SECRET MEETING IN 2002 IN ENGLAND!

XI. ARNOLD'S CAMPAIGN DECIDED IN THE AMERICAN FASHION--ENTIRELY IN SECRET, AT BOHEMIAN GROVE.

XII. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS BOTH WANT TO REMOVE CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATIONS ON THE FOREIGN BORN FOR THE PRESIDENCY--SETTING UP UNREPENTANT NAZI ARNOLD FOR THE NEXT G.H.W. BUSH PRESIDENCY

XIII. BACKGROUND OF NAZI KURT WALDHEIM, ARNOLD'S FRIEND AND WHO HE REFUSED TO REPUDIATE IN PUBLIC

XIV. ARNOLD HATES TO TALK ABOUT HIS FASCIST BACKGROUND AND UNREPENTANCE BECAUSE HE SAYS, IT IS "A NO-WIN SITUATION"

XV. NAZI PAST OF SCHWARTZENEGGER'S FATHER

XVI. CONCLUSIONS: COMMENTS ON BUSH STRATEGIES EMPLOYING ARNOLD, AND 14 POINTS TO RECOGNIZE FASCISM--THE U.S HAS THEM ALL

(snip)

[bearfartinthewoods]

116. my standards have nothing to do with the subject at hand

it's like the death penalty...i'm against it. somepeople are against it except for people who murder cops. for me that's irrelevant. my opposition applies across the board.

same deal with arnold or even,....wretch... rush. i defended clinton on sex charges because they were a private matter. i've defended others on drug charges because it's a medical matter. i can't attack now, just because it's happening to repubs, not even the blowhard.

i know people say it's about the hypocrisy of the republicans/family values and virtues but i can't let their hypocrisy drag me into becoming a hypocrite as well.

[noiretextatique]

124. public groping is not a private matter

arnold's arrogance is comng back to haunt him.

[Eloriel]

202. PRIVATE non-consensual groping isn't a private matter either

What a bizarre idea.

Let's take the "sex" out of it. If Arnold were wont to going around physically assaulting men by roughing them up or punching them out without provocation, would THAT be a private matter? Hardly. The men involved would have a right to file charges. It would be newsworthy and it WOULD be a reason to consider not voting for him (as if there aren't plenty already).

His racist remarks about other body builders has been reported. Is THAT a private matter?

There's no private matter here. Private matters involve CONSENSUAL sex, not sexual harassment and assult which, almost by definition, are NOT private matters because they are wrong if not illegal.

Eloriel

[noiretextatique]

234. i agree, but in this case, none of the incidents were done in private

which speaks volumes about his arrogant disregard for women and sexual harrassment laws, and his arrogant assurance that what he did was perfectly OK. even in his "apology," he claims he was "being playful."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

128. Arnold admits he did wrong here

big difference with the Clinton accusations. Also, California now has an opportunity to keep the creep out of office.

[prolesunited]

140. It is NOT a private matter

When you grab someone's breast or their ass without their permission, it is AGAINST the law, thereby putting it in the public sphere.

OK, the obvious reply is why didn't the women press charges? Judging by all of the enlightenment we've seen here, it would have been the women, not Arnold, who would be put on trial. Is it any wonder why men are still allowed to get away with such behavior and women are forced to suffer in silence?

In addition, as was pointed out, these women work in the industry. What do you think their chances of getting blacklisted were.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

143. I think I am talking to he-bear..I am not certain

I never defended Clinton against allegations of UNWANTED sexual advances until the credibility of the charges were assessed. As yoou may recall in the Jones case, the actual charges were never proven and witnesses recieved various forms of compensation from Richard Scaife. 80 million dollars were spent and even Starr did NOT use the Brodderick allegations and Robert Ray's final report dismissed the credibility of those charges. Wiley's collaborater likewise recanted.

Arnold has LONG HAD this reputation, bragged about gang banging, and admitted this AM that there is merit to these allegations (one as recently as the year 2000)

These women did NOT seek out the press, the press sought them out.

The only act Bill Clinton was proven and admitted were the consensual acts of Gennifer Flowers and Monica..both of whom LET HIM touch them..
So I don't really see an issue of hypocrisy unless one has consensual touching and assault confused.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

151. Huh???

Are you saying that you see no difference between consensual private sexual matters and NON-consensual sexual harassment???

Please tell me that is NOT what you are saying...

[Cheswick2.0]

152. consensual sex is a private matter, unwelcome groping not

He is a serial sexual assaulter.

[salin]

184. Consider two different scenarios

serial philander. Elected - likely to have an affair in the office.

serial groper/assualter. Elected - likely to sexually harass female staffers and the female staffers of other elected officials who have business with him (and therefor the staffers have to come in and out of the office). Sexually harass = grab, grope, but the women can't complain (lose job), are now working in a hostile work environment.

In the first scenario the female is a willing participant.

In the latter she is not. She is assualted with lecherous behavior.

As to Clinton - I was disturbed by the stories and followed them closely to figure out beyond Lewinsky (which was the first type/philandering - a problem but consensual and private) to get a sense of whether the charges were contrived (as seemed to be with Willey) and gratuitous slime - or real. Because the forced aspect - is of a concern to me.

[tom_paine]

132. No sympathy -- these fuckers reap what they sow

I am long beyond giving Totalitarian Monsters (and those who shill for them and provide them cover -- like Raygun and Ahnold) ANY benefit of the doubt.

They declared war long ago, and we are the poorer for not having fought from the first.

I'll cry crocodile tears, like Emperor Bunnypants after 9/11 (but only three days later, when people started talking about what a cold fish he was-- and you could smell those onions and glycerine!)

[TreasonousBastard]

138. hoo, Boy! Where do I start?

It is a day of joyous news, if you're into schadenfreude. And we all are to some extent where these people are concerned. Let the hypocrisy be exposed and let the crap they fling be blown back at them.

Ah-nuld, though, is a special case. He is an invention, a muscle-bound ape with a special genius for self-promotion and little else. He seems to have managed to wrangle his way into the spotlight, possibly because no real politician wanted to deal with California's problems, and needed a Republican sacrifice to hold onto the office while things sort of worked themselves out, and then he could be conveniently dumped.

His positions are largely meaningless. He has no record, just a lot of mumbo-jumbo and sound bites.

Everyone in Hollywoood is for gay rights Three-quarters of the people in the business are gay. Their friends are gay. Their producers, writers casting directors and costars are gay. Every other week they hear of a funeral for someone they know who died of AIDS. I suspect Ah-nuld, just like everyone else, is sincere in this, or at least as sincere as he can be. But it doesn't make him a good guy or a decent choice for governor.

Pretty much the same can be said for pro-choice, environmentalism, or anything else he professes to believe in.

Where's the beef besides his pecs? What's he done?

Then there's the sex stuff. I don't put copping a feel into the same category as forcible rape, but it has the same roots. Rape is a crime of violence, not sex, and fondling is considering the fondlee to be a toy for one's pleasure. "You are my tit to grab, and you can't do anything about it." Dominance and control. I can't talk you into wanting me to fondle you, so I'll just do it because I can.

This is the sort of person we want to be a leader? I don't care about him or anyone else getting laid. I do care about lack of judgment and self-control. And being a pig.

Do we want to descend to their level and run a dirty campaign, based on the innuendos and dirt we dig up? A large part of me says no, but the larger part says that if they start it, and that's what it takes to win, what's the point of being an honorable loser?

Nobody's lying about Ah-nuld. Just showing him to be the opportunistic pig he that he is.

[DemLikr]

189. I appreciate your thoughtful, reasoned response.

as opposed to venemous name calling contained in many responses to my post.

You've made me think...thanks.

[ronnykmarshall]

146. I know for a FACT he does this.

When I lived in SF he was filming in the city. My boss and her best friend and I went to lunch and she (my bosses friend) was working on the set with Arnold. She said that he was feeling up women right and left. Grabbing ass and slipping his hands up their skirts.

This is not some last minute 'dirty trick', this what kind of two faced liar he is. Period.

The media just got off it's lazy ass now and reported it.

[Cheswick2.0]

159. Just once I wish some woman had kicked him in the balls

really really hard. What a f**king pig

[DemLikr]

187. I can get on board with that! Fighting back, taking action!

Great concept...love it. Vague accusations made years after the fact during a political battle, regardless of which side makes them, carry little weight with me.

I remember all too well the cheap, vague accusations against Bil Clinton, which many of my attackers in this thread have apparently forgotten.

[DemCam]

154. Does make me

rejoice a bit too much and makes me worry about karma...

But...watching hypocrisy unfold in the oh-so-bleepin' righteous is like very deee-leeeeee-shush candy. Yummmmm

[DemCam]

155. Am trying to break 100posts...but

doubles don't count do they? Seem to be having trouble with that today.

[w4rma]

185. No. The Democratic Party is anti-molestation. Arnold is a molester (n/t)

[VOX]

191. No quarter -- Arnold is fair game. He must be held for accountable...

for any outrageous behaviors. This is a serious reflection on his character and personal conduct. I'm no prude, but do we really want a party animal (okay, forget the "party" part, and let's just go with "animal") for our governor?

Ironically, as reprehensible as these mysogynistic serial acts are, there are many more sinister aspects of Arnold that the media has chosen to ignore, since they have been so busy falling over themselves with reporting on Arnold's "inevitability."

Arnold has put himself out there on the grand scale, so now, if he's taking rockets for his transgressions, well, sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Based upon all that he's done and where he stands, and who supports him, Arnold is the enemy. No quarter should be given.

[texas is the reason]

192. i agree. i appreciate a sense of debauchery in a candidate.....

and frankly i wish there were more people in office with his kind of past... politicians should be real people in thier own life, and judged solely on thier policies, knowledge,leadership, and diplomatic skill as professionals. we are electing someone to represent our interests-not to be a role model. when we elect these repressed bible-thumping types to office, is it any suprise to see our civil liberties discarded and our private lives legislated against? italy has ex-porn stars in thier parliament, and is it any coincidence that they enjoy more freedoms than us? my problem with schwarzenegger is his ineptitude - he is an idiot, and california will become a microchasm of exactly the way our country is run right now- a clean-cut, likeable figurehead sitting in the big chair just along for the ride;allowing evil minions of satan who could never be elected on thier own merits to run the show for him. california will be run by swine no better than cheney/rummy/wolfowitz/etc., and the BFEE will be one step closer to the fourth reich.

[DemLikr]

212. I think I sort of agree. Hesitantly...and suspiciously.

But thanks anywya. Sorry if I offended in any way.

[texas is the reason]

232. yeah,there is very little in this world that i am offended by....

but i understand your hesitancy- i am sure i am in the minority on this one... and i did use the word "bible-thumper"- i'm sure someone will be flaming me here shortly-lol! and for the record, i dont support unprovoked groping- i was referring more to the drug binges and group sex!!

[realFedUp]

236. There is a difference

between people who have lived rich and varied lives
and those who have just broken laws.

I think you can have the first without electing
the second.

Unless you don't care that the bar has been so
lowered by people like Bush and Schwarzenegger...
I guess Republicans can't find anyone with moral
standards anymore to run in their party.

[texas is the reason]

250. yeah, the repubs are clearly hypocrites...

but i see a huge distinction between arnie's moral indiscretions, (drugs, group sex, etc..-which i have no problem with) and bush's-unprovoked unilateral war for political gain, stealing from the poor to give to the filthy rich, destroying the environment to save a nickel off of the bottom line, and generally establishing a fascist, corporate-controlled landscape, buttressed by appalingly unfair tax cuts that have virtually ensured financial ruin for my generation(i am 23) to pay our soon-to-be 5 trillion dollar defecit off.. arnie hasnt done anything that clinton or kennedy havent done!! he is still a tool, though.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

244. Fine. As long as debauchery doesn't become depravity

then we've got a problem. Although your idea of an accpetable candidate kind of gives a pass to Bush's ridiculous past, it is exactly this kind of "hankering" for a "real" person that gaves us the idiot-in-chief. Your points about the repressed moralists are valid though, and somewhere soon, we may come to accept the less than ideal person as the norm.

RE: Arnold- the guy engaged in truly criminal behavior towards these women. He is NOT the kind of person I want in office.

[bloom]

201. No....n/t

[Eloriel]

240. I just read the L.A. Times article

And am nauseated. Anyone who even THINKS of sticking up for Schwarzenegger is a sick misogynist himself or, if appropriate, herself. This is a pattern of abuse of women that is outrageous, shocking, heartbreaking even to read. The humiliation shines through. It's revolting and beyond disgusting.

Shame on ANYone who has even thought about defending him in any way.

And frankly shame on anyone who retreats behind some faux "but the charges haven't been substantiated" defense. So few women EVER make this kind of shit up, that it's not worth considering, frankly. I'm sick and tired of boors and criminals and pigs and perverts being believed for even one minute over their accusers. I'd expect that level of misogyny at Freeperville, I don't expect it here.

Eloriel

[DemLikr]

243. See? Now wasn't that self-righteous post fun and cathartic and stuff?

Good for you, Elly!

All disclaimers apply, etc.

[noiretextatique]

249. poor arnold and his "misery" at being exposed

yeah, he seems so miserable when he first denied those incidents happened, then accused the opposition of trying to make him look bad, and finally confessing to "being playful." poor, miserable arnie.

[Ripley]

246. Psssst....El, we ain't allowed to use the word misogynist.

It has been rendered meaningless according to the almighty thread starter.

See, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and we want to call a duck a duck we have to call the duck a water fowl because the term duck even when descibing a duck has been overused. So I say Arnold is a SLIMY GOOSE!

[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onecitizen]

248. Nope!! not cringing.....

at all. This is one of the best days I've had in nearly 3 YEARS!!!

[AnnabelLee]

252. Locking

This thread is being locked because the OP is sexist.

AnnabelLee
DU Moderator