What does America Owe the Native People & Former Slaves?

[mopaul]

E V E R Y T H I N G. we hate the nazis because they tried to eliminate a whole race of people and enslave them, yet we did it before the nazis did.

and now, the great white father is doing it again. enslaving all the poor nations to make our goods and live in squalor, while we mighty americans grow fat and lazy with luxury. and we are beginning our ethnic cleansing of the muslim world, and the enslavement of the arab people.

we need to be ashamed of our past, and do something to stop this from happening again, so that we can have a proud future.

america was BUILT on the bodies and backs of slaves and stolen from the original inhabitants. i know that i personally had nothing to do with this, but my european ancestors did, and i'm ashamed of them.
i just want america to move beyond our awful past, and make it right by NOT LETTING IT HAPPEN AGAIN.

i know, i'm a idealist.

[ret5hd]

1. mmmm...i dunno...the north american continent?

we'd have to buy out canada, tho.
i wonder if they would let me in if i applied for re-immigration back into the place i was born? probably not, and i wouldn't blame them.

[jus_the_facts]

2. a hell of a lot more than 40 acres and a mule....or casinos....

x(

[sniffa]

3. they deserve a fair tax

and a repeaL of any and aLL affirmative action programs so they can have the dignity of personaL responsibiLity.

[LostinVA]

4. Look at Pine Ridge reservation

We owe them real housing, real medical care, a real standard of living, real schools, a real chance at college or learning a real trade, and real jobs. Send some of those companies overseas to SD, AZ, NM, etc. Native Americans have been incredibly marginalized, and the government is STILL allowing corporate interests to rape their reservations (minerals, fuel, water, etc.).

I absolutely agree African Americans have been mistreated, too, but there is a level of difference OVERALL, although not individually nor geographically. (do not want to be accused of poo-pooing real problems the AA community is facing, because I'm not)

[Dez]

6. This is the American way.

The US government will never give us natives more. The stealing continues and it will continue to happen, because they are so powerful. Even here on DU, hardly any people ever post on native related posts. It's just not important to people .. they would rather bitch about shrub. We are the forgotten people.

[RebelOne]

10. As far as I am concerned, Native Americans

are not the forgotten people. I have always been an advocate of the rights of Native Americans. And I am ashamed the atrocities that have been committed by my ancestors against the American Indians.

[Dez]

16. Unfortunately, you are in a minority

with your beliefs. Not enough Americans share your compassion.

[LostinVA]

17. You're unfortunately right

I've been involved with individuals at Pine Ridge, and it is just appalling these conditions exist in this country. The ONLY President to ever go there was Clinton, but so what? What changed? And, NAs are a solid Dem voting bloc, and have really effected elections, esp. in SD.

And I agree: even many people her on DU don't have NA rights in there daily POV. And, when does the MSM ever mention this??? Look at the Bureau of Indian Affairs. God.

I'm "mentoring" a young Lakota woman who just started college. The odds are against her, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Dez]

23. Good for you for helping someone else.

If more Americans would help out, things would change.. people are more concerned with Iraqis though.. or helping poverty stricken people in South America or Africa.

[LostinVA]

25. Agreed. My mom is a nurse and does volunteer

work out there for a few weeks every summer. Just giving shots, etc. It's not a lot we do, unfortunately, but it's something....

Helping kids eat in Sudan IS important, but so is taking care of America's people....

[The Traveler]

5. Well, yes you are

but what you express here is not lofty idealism ... merely the thought processes of a person who embraces common decency. An honor to know ya, bud.

[Atman]

7. I just returned from Navajo country...oh, Jesus

We just took our first vacation in years. We went to Arizona and were so thoroughly blown away by the natural beauty of the place -- it was almost literally "sensory overload." While most of our trip consisted of the highest of highs, we were thrown for a loop as we drove through the Indian "reservations" on our way to see the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. It was horrible. My wife and I shared a sense of outrage, sadness and disbelief...we're busy worrying about Iraqis, Somalis, etc, and here are our own indigenous people living in the most squalid, nasty conditions, it was just shocking to us.

While we stopped at a supposed "genuine" Indian trading post (necessity after hours driving through the desert) we quickly eschewed the largely Chinese-made "genuine" Navajo jewelry and dolls, and kept driving. I didn't buy anything, but I did toss a fiver into the wicker basket of an old woman knitting a blanket. She may have been a sham, too, but I couldn't help it. I wanted to smack the old ladies unpacking the Chinese-made dolls. I'd BUY ONE, pay three times as much for it, IF IT WERE REAL! And YOU would get to keep the money! What are you thinking?????? Thousands of unemployed native Americans right outside the door...couldn't a couple of them pick up a knife and whittle something? I'd buy a stick with someone's name carved in it if it were REAL! Jesus.

We drove off, disgusted. After leaving the sanctioned "reservation" store, which was actually more like South Of The Border in the desert, we continued on to the Canyon. In each of the scenic pull-offs, local indians had set up tables and were selling their wares. We were skeptical at this point...more important Chinese crap? No...the stuff we saw was real, had signatures or were being made right in front of us. My wife picked up a small silver bracelet. A woman jumped up, "I'll take that for you -- $4."

"Did you make this?" my wife asked.

"Yes, all of this table I made," the woman replied, with a sweeping gesture toward the table-top. My wife gave her a ten dollar bill, and she hunted for change. She came up with a five, but couldn't find a one. "Keep it, that's fine," said my wife, who felt she had already got a great deal, and the indian woman probably could have used the extra dollar more than we. But she wouldn't hear of it, and searched frantically until she came up with a dollar's change for my wife.

We spent some time there and chatted, bought a couple of small items to bring home, then drove off. This is where it got a tad surreal; shortly after we hit the road again, we passed an official government/parks service sign. You know, the ones in brown with white letters. This sign issued a warning NOT TO ENCOURAGE THE INDIANS who are selling wares at rest areas. "Purchase only in official stores" or something to that effect. We were dumbfounded.

We take the entire country from them, dump them on hell-hole "reservations," relegate them to khatcki sellers and curiousities, then have the fucking nerve to "warn" Americans not to purchase from them? Jesus christ, I just wanted to go back and load up the car with stuff from the rest area, just to say "fuck you." But no one is there to listen...no white man would stay in that god-forsaken area.

That is why our government decided to "give" it to the native Americans...it didn't cost us anything, and we wouldn't live there anyway...no loss.

It really was sad. Very sad. I felt truly ashamed. Go tour the southwest, people. I only saw a sliver, but it was enough to open my eyes a bit. We've really fucked over these people, yet we spend our time "worrying" about others a million miles away, we pack up our old cans of beans and moth-eaten sweatshirts to send them, thinking we're helping someone. But our own backyard is a fucking mess.

[Dez]

8. Did you visit other parts of the rez?

I agree with everything you said, except the government 'gave' us Navajos land, but it was where we lived before the US arrived on the scene.

You visited probably the ugliest part of the rez.. there are so many beautiful places on our rez.. and the government 'gave' us this land since at the time, they had no use for it. Only later did they realize how much uranium was underneath the ground.. but the Navajo president has outlawed uranium mining, YES!

[Atman]

13. No, we didn't see nearly enough

That was the worst part. It was akin to going to Disney/Epcot for just one day. You know there is a LOT more there, you just don't have time. Of course, using Disney World as a metaphor for the Navajo reservations in kinda obscene, but I'm just trying to make the point that Arizona had far, far too much for us to see, even with over a week to see it. Stunningly beautiful country. Perhaps the most beautiful place I've ever seen, and so diverse, we were overwhelmed. We awoke to a sunrise in the Red Rocks area, were walking through old cliff dwellings by 8:00 am, trudging through ancient lava flows before lunch, laying naked in the Painted Desert for tea, at the Grand Canyon for sunset, and several stops in between, before spending a night in an old bordello along Route 66, then back to Red Rocks the next morning. My wife and I agreed that we didn't see nearly enough. I've got that yearning...I need to hike to the bottom of the canyon...it is calling me!

Anyway, thanks for the positive note. I am glad to hear all isn't as bad as the area we drove through. I wish we had found some of the genuine native American culture. I wanted so much more after leaving the tourist traps! When I return to Arizona for my hike into the canyon, I'll be sure to leave some time to explore more venues off the beaten (tourist) path. Thanks!

(BTW -- what are your suggestions? Where should I start, what should I see, to get a better representation of Navajo reality?)

ON EDIT - Thanks for pointing out that the U.S. government didn't "give" any land to the Navajos who were already there. That was an ignorant statement on my part. And I mean that...I find I am woefully ignorant of too much of this part of our history.

[Dez]

19. Hike down in Canyon de Chelley, not

the Grand Canyon. Then drive over to Tsaile and see NCC (Navajo Community College) then go to Lukachukai, and Crystal, Washington Pass, up in the pines, it's beautiful up there.

I lived in Ganado and Ft. Defiance, which is also nice over there. My grandma owned her own gas station, and I would help out there.. She was a very wise elder, and people would always show up at our door, in need of help in one way or another.

[Atman]

29. Thanks, Dez! I'll check it out. I'll probably go it alone,

as my wife was about at her limit with the height thing. I can walk right out to the edge and hang my toes over, but she was in almost constant fear, and stayed back 20 feet at any given time. So I'd likely take the hike by myself, to allow more freedom of movement. I'll look into de Chelley. Never heard of it before! I like being surprised.

[bleedingheart]

15. You have gotta be kidding me....

your story pisses me off.

[Dez]

24. Are you talking to me? n/t

[bleedingheart]

28. I was replying to Atman

I am just disgusted that the parks service would dissuade people from buying goods from people so they can sell their chinese made junk...

[mopaul]

20. i was at grand canyon last year

and saw the same people, setting up their tables at sunrise on the edge of a breathtaking view. we also saw about 20 young men and women laying around after obviously drinking all night in squalor, a sad, sad sight.

i've got some native american blood in me, and many white people do too and don't realize it because it was something to be ashamed of for so many years.

many white americans have some african blood in there too, but would never believe it if you told them.

[moose65]

9. another thing we owe

We should also be telling our children the truth about the history of this country. With all this "intelligent design" talk going on about science classes, we've forgotten about history classes! It's the same old "patriotic" crap that the administration spews at us daily... history textbooks and classes in high schools can't say anything negative about the United States. Propaganda galore. Oh, of course they pay lip service to Native Americans and slaves, but that's all it is. There's never any discussion of present-day issues that still affect natives and African-Americans. Has anyone read the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen? Very enlightening. Native people are invisible in this country. To most people, Indians are inhabitants of another century and their "problems" were resolved years ago. Unbelievable, indeed.

[mopaul]

21. the shame of 'manifest destiny' lives today in iraq

[noonwitch]

11. I don't believe in a cash payout to every descendant, it's not possible

I do think that if we invested in equality in education, so that kids from poor, minority districts had the same advantages and opportunities that wealthier districts offer, we could make a difference within a couple of generations. It can't just be a funding thing, there has to be a comprehensive plan that gets parents involved, helps identify kids with learning problems early, gets rid of lead paint in poor communities and punishes landlords who don't comply, and we could be on the way to make changes.

I really don't think that african americans or native americans would be calling for reparations if they were getting a fair and equal deal from the country now.

[mopaul]

22. i never mentioned reparations, just plain decency.

[DanCa]

12. If there would be justice a native american would be in the white house

and the chimp would be in a reservation.

[Dez]

14. Americans would never vote for a native

it just would never happen. There is too much prejudice towards natives.
tHE White House is reserved for rich white people, bottom line.

[LostinVA]

18. Agreed... just add "Christian" and "Probably Male"

and you've hit the target.

[AzDar]

26. If I am the product of miscegenation, do I pay reparations to myself?

....Just askin'..lol

[msongs]

27. yawn.........it is really all god's fault...

one must go all the way back to adam and eve and intelligent design if your logic is to be extended to its conclusion.

it is god's fault as it/he/she designed us in its/his/hers own image and gave people permission to take slaves in the....ta da....bible.

Msongs
www.msongs.com