Sent all of Bev's voting machine info to my state rep.

[foxglove1]

He's read it thoroughly and is sending it to our Dem CT Secretary of State for her perusal because CT is on its way to getting voting machines next year. He said she'll do what's right and that she's one of the good guys! Woohoo!!!

:bounce:

Sue

[madfloridian]

1. That is great!

It is good he listened. I had thought about it, but my state legislators are so bound to Jeb.....I don't know if it would matter.

[foxglove1]

2. He's a really cool guy - I call him at home when I need him!

He gives all his constituents his home phone number so we can call. Like I said, a great guy

Sue

[Eloriel]

3. Great. Now a word of caution.

Keep on them. Apparently, these voting machine lobbyists are hypnotists or something, because they keep persuading people (e.g., Secretaries of State) who ought to know better out of sheer common sense to do things which are ridiculous, counterproductive, and downright damaging.

Do NOT assume that just because someone says your SoS is "one of the good guys" that it'll work out right. Keep on it!!

Let me give you an example. In addition to Georgia having bought those horrible Diebold machines (22,000 of them for a cost of $54 million), they were also persuaded to pass a law which says that even if there were paper ballots that got spit out as a receipt (like your ATM machine), those would NOT be the legal ballot and thus couldn't be used in a recount.

How dumb is THAT?

Sure, if my bank and I had a tiff over a withdrawal I made via their ATM, my receipt wouldn't be the same as money, but it sure would mean SOMEthing, and would serve as proof of the transaction. But noooooo. In Georgia, the only "legal vote" is the electronic vote. And they can be manipulated six ways to Sunday (and probably were).

Stay on it!!

Eloriel

[foxglove1]

4. Don't worry, I'm all over it

I won't let this one go

Sue

[RedEagle]

5. Georgia and Paper Ballots

Eloriel,

I don't think Georgia can do that and comply with the HAVA Act. Please do a Google search for the "Help America Vote Act" and look it over. There are sections about states that don't purchase machines using HAVA money. They may still have to comply with HAVA rules.

Title III, sec. 301, mandates a system produce a paper record WITH audit capacity. That CANNOT be a print out after the election of votes stored in the machine because that does not provide the independent record needed for an audit. The only way to do that with a DRE is to produce a voter-verified paper ballot.

In addition:

(iii) The paper record produced under subparagraph (A) shall be available as an official record for any recount conducted with respect to any election in which the system is used.

In other words, you have to use the paper record for an official recount.

The question is, is Georgia bound by the HAVA Act? I tend to think so, but go find a copy of the act and read it.

ANYONE interested in fighting against unaccountable elections should become familiar with the HAVA Act, because that's providing the money for these machines.

HAVA doesn't use the language "voter-verified paper trail," it just says that there must be a MANUAL audit capacity and that capacity shall be a permanent paper record. The voter must have an opportunity to change the ballor or correct any error BEFORE the permanent paper record is produced. (You've got to look at it to accomplish that, right?) I believe that the language chosen was used because it covers other forms like optical scan, where you essentially perform voter-verification by filling it in. The computer is an intermediary that kind of does that for you, and you must have evidence that it "scribed" correctly for you.

By all means, start going over state election laws and work to get the inane ones changed- the ones that facilitate fraud rather than help prevent it.

Good Luck!

[newyawker99]

6. Hi RedEagle!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BevHarris]

7. However, HAVA isn't giving us the paper trail because

they say that the machine can just print out votes one by one from a "facsimile" it keeps inside, and that will suffice for the above HAVA rule -- of course, that's a joke, and certainly not voter-verified.

Bev

[RedEagle]

8. HAVA and Paper

Right Bev,

That's what the people who are for unaccountable elections say, and we know that's a joke.

People need to keep challenging their state and local officials on this, though. Whenever I've brought up the fact that redundancy is not auditability, they always go back to the storage issue..... They never address the "audit," issue directly.

For some reason, I think it makes them uncomfortable....

Still, Georgia may be out of line on not using paper ballots, because HAVA is pretty clear about that.

People should also refer to: Title IV-Enforcement

Getting kind of overwhelmed by complaints might have an effect, too.

Also might throw in that the vendors who are big and have money to throw around on lobbyists, etc., are probably spreading that "Image" garbage around because they can't compete if people believe that the Voter-verified ballot is mandated. (And I think it is, just by the requirement for audit capacity) Where it concerns machines that produce the verfied paper ballot, they are behind the power curve and some of the smaller companies are ahead of them. So the issue also becomes one of money as the big guys try to maintain their dominance and take of the congress-mandated spending spree.