Will the pendulum swing further to the right before it comes back?

[Onlooker]

[benburch]

1. I'm not sure it will swing back this time.

I think we may descend into a 1984-like situation from which there is no escape.

[Thtwudbeme]

2. Remember the "Iron Heel" lasted a couple of centuries.

The question is how far are we into that cycle? 100? 200? 10? 50? 60? 70? 80?

[benburch]

12. I won't give up without resorting to Revolution.

How about you?

[JanMichael]

13. I would imagine that you should know by now!

Goodness I've only posted about a hundred treads on Socialism over the last 4 years here.

I doubt it'll happen by osmosis.

[benburch]

16. What was it Jefferson said?

Oh yes;

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

- Thomas Jefferson, November 13, 1787, letter to William S. Smith

[tinfoilinfor2005]

3. Keep your ear to the ground...

an awful lot of rumbling going on out there. I think there is a LOT of unhappiness from the normally "I don't get involved" crowd.

[patricia92243]

4. It is merely annoying now. It will be truly frightening if it swing more

right. Women especially don't understand the danger they are in. Women's rights are the first to go when ANY religion takes the place of the rightful civil aspects of that society.

[teryang]

5. Kevin Phillips has suggested our country has hardening of the

...arteries, that the huge disparity of the classes are locked in place, that this is the hallmark of a country whose dominance is at an end and the only way we are going is down.

The fact that we are squandering hundreds of billions on interminable conflict only hastens our decline. If historical precedent is any example, like the Spanish, Dutch and British hegemons of their day, one should look to emigrate to a more prosperous society that still engages in production rather than financial hocus pocus and late stage imperialism.

[wli]

6. we're not coming back from this

Democracy is over, folks.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

7. Much further, & then it'll break off. We're screwed.

[tjwash]

8. Even righties are grumbling now...

...about the abuse of eminent domain laws, and the upcoming draft. It won't swing very much further.

[volitionx]

9. It'll get worse...

What most Americans don't realize is that the neo-cons took power in an illegal coup. This group has ZERO legitimacy.

It is EXACTLY the same as if they were operating in a Banana Republic, except that they didn't take over by force of arms, and few people know that they've been completely swindled. Otherwise, it's the same. A numerical minority of despots has taken over our country, AND THEY WILL _NOT_ GIVE IT BACK.

They took power not just for 8 years, but FOREVER. They have completely abandoned the notion that they can "lose" an election.

Anyone who thinks that the neo-cons will just go out of power in 2008 because the people have grown wise to them, and vote them out, is DELUDED.

Don't be one of those sheepish, stupid Americans who thinks that this is just a matter of a back-and-forth swing of power. The pendulum is STUCK in the far-right, and will NOT swing back until drastic measures are taken to get these vermin OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT AND INTO PRISON WHERE THEY BELONG.

These fascists know the neo-con party, which has devoured the Republican Party, will never lose another presidential election, because they will STEAL IT EVERY TIME.

Until we abolish touch-screen voting, THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT.

Remember Clinton Curtis, the computer programmer who was asked to create a vote-stealing software program in 2000? I've seen his source code, and my roomate, who is a programmer, says it's easy as hell to write. We don't know what happened to that code after he turned it over to his boss, who supposedly gave it to a member of the Florida legislature, but we know it can be done and was done.

My prediction: Jeb Bush will "change his mind" and run in 2008, and will steal the election. That way, the neo-cons and the Bush Crime Family can keep their hold on power for another 8 years.

These people take the PNAC SERIOUSLY, and have formed an alliance between advocates of a Global Corporate Empire and Jewish/Christian Zionism. The corporatists want money, the Jewish Zionists want a hegemonic Israeli state, and the Christian Zionists want the RAPTURE, which can only happen (so they say), when there's a final battle between Christianity and Islam. Think I'm joking? Do some research.

By the way, True Torah Jews do NOT like Zionists, and in fact HATE Zionists: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

[durutti]

10. Much further right, almost necessarily.

The Left is excluded from power due to a lack of a clear program, strategy, and organization. Attaining these things will take time. It will mean lots of trial and error.

[Cats Against Frist]

11. I hate to be pessimistic, but I think that it can go a little further ,

but, I don't think it can go too far, right now, simply because of the demographic of the population. I think that, as long as today's elderly and late middle-agers are still alive, it can go only so far, because to go further, upsets their status quo. However, if the fascists can hold onto power, until they're dead, I think that people who have been raised on fascism and the kids of the trazillion delusional Evangelical march, who will then reach voting age, will probably turn this country into a fucking nightmare.

That said, I think that there are fewer hardcore freeptards and loonies out there, than there maybe appears. I think that they did steal the last election -- but, even if they hadn't, I think that there were factors that pointed to a Bushitler victory -- most importantly, being an incumbent president during a fake war. I think that MANY, MANY of the widest swath of the voting population are not hardcore Bush supporters, or conservatives, but are simply CONSUMERS that really don't know what they fuck they're doing, and will vote, just like they'll all go buy SUVs. I think it explains Clinton's approval numbers -- 77 percent AT THE TIME OF HIS IMPEACHMENT -- and explains Bush's pathetic 40 percent approval rating. These people didn't all die or move out of the country -- and right-wing talk radio was around, even then.

IF we can get paper ballots, and the media stops sucking GOP cock, we could easily take it, with the right momentum, and the right candidate. The Democratic party doesn't have to make any radical changes, or move to the left or to the right, or whatever. "Ideas" don't matter, and never have. The GOP doesn't have "ideas," -- they have a series of prejudices and fears, wrapped up in abstract concepts and myths. The clash isn't between the practical solutions of the parties -- the clash is between the differing philosophies.

At any rate, if the mega churches keep growing, or they really are stealing elections, by the next generation, we're done for. Then, I think that only rock and roll could change it -- and yes, I'm serious.

[Onlooker]

14. Pretty cynical results so far

So, 72% of DU progressives think things will get worse than better. (I'm in that 72%.) What dark times we live in, and have lived in for the better part of 25 years.

[leftofthedial]

15. it was a pendulum when America was a democracy

since the coup, it's a truncheon

[OnionPatch]

17. It depends

I think American public opinion is done swinging right and is starting to swing back left. Right-wing governmental policy, however, is still swinging hard to the right but I don't know for how much longer it can continue. It seems from the polls that people are getting pretty fed up. I would have lots of hope for 2006 if it weren't for the voting machines and all the election fraud tricks they have up their sleeve.

[snot]

18. We may be past the pendulum part--

We may be into the death-through-apathy part.

I say that 'cause I actually think we're already PAST the 50% point--I think most Americans are sick of what's going on--

but we've got a lot of problems requiring a very active response, and eliciting real ACTION isn't easy these days; lately I feel l'm lucky to get friends to sign an on-line petition.

(In particular, betw. the R-wing media lock and the the black box voting machines . . . it's going to take some real effort to get things moving in the right direction.)

I act on the assumption there's still hope.