Want to see some scary shit? Words escape me...

[fooj]

((video)) http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm

This is a must see!

VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS...VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS

VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS!!!:kick:

[Richard Steele]

1. It's not working for me. n/m

[merh]

2. What is it, fooj?

I have dial up and can't view it here. What is the video?

:shrug:

Sending you hugs :hug: :hug:

[SouthernDem2004]

3. That computer guy in FL that said he was asked to make prg to fix elec./nt

[merh]

16. Oh the Yang connection to election fraud.

ER&D had tons of threads on the issue. You would be amazed to know that the FEC actually investigated Yang's hand in illegally funding or interfering with campaigns.

Do a search and find all the threads of the research DUers did on Yang and the claims of Curtis.

Curtis is a brave fellow. I think he has realized that he has to remain public to stay alive.

[fooj]

18. What's happened to my country?

Huh?:cry:

[merh]

25. Greed and the lust for power.

Absolute power corrupts ab-so-fucklutely. :argh:

We, the People, will reclaim our nation.

Never Give Up! NEVER! :patriot:

[fooj]

28. I needed that.

Thanks.:pals:

peace.

[merh]

31. You do it for me all the time!

:pals:

thank you! :loveya:

[CountAllVotes]

128. Yes greed - the root of all evil

I just came to the conclusion the other day that the culprit is GREED, plain and simple. If we refuse to "buy" into greed and just say no when we see it, I think the world may perhaps have a chance to heal at some point in time.

Thank you for the link.

:kick:

[AuntiBush]

92. You Tell Me & Will Both Know, fooj!

Wish I had the answer.

Whatever it was, it happened when many of us were just not expecting it. Isn't that how all crimes are committed successfully!?!

Welcome to the Corporate-Elite Dictatorship. I wanna go to New Zealand!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

132. They've restored dignity to the wh.... that is all.

[Imagevision]

159. It makes me suspicious as to why Kerry/Edwards didn't jump on this!

Instead Kerry makes the statement that; " I believe it was the Bin Laden video released days before the election that did me in" -- and that's a quote!!

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. There was a man working with him

who turned up "suicided". They were working on some big case and the man was very excited and he made a phone call about it to his family at a pay phone and the next day he was found dead. It's very strange case and I highly believe he was murdered. I didn't look at the pictures since I can't stomach it but just the circumstances and the note and all that is weird enough.

[merh]

33. The man was a journalist investigating the connection.

He was "suicided", the investigation into his death was reopened, but I don't know what has come of it.

[wli]

55. that murder was pretty blatant

The suicide note was forged (if I've got the right "suicide"), lots of physical evidence (arrangement of objects at crime scene) was inconsistent with suicide, powder burns on his own hands were lacking, etc.

[converted_democrat]

134. They claimed he slit his wrists, he was not shot.

I forget the specifics, but the way it was done, left many doubting that he could have done it himself, plus he was beat pretty good. Something else that was odd was the fact of where the hotel was at. The county it was in was the only county with-in many miles that did not do autopsies on "suicides." Also, they claimed there were no photos of the crime scene, but then the photos were discovered months later. The photos revealed a completely different scene than was in the official report. Everything in the report was completely different than what was shown in the photos. The whole thing was odd. I think the Brad Blog has more info, copies of the photos and copies of the police reports.

[lonestarnot]

99. Was that the guy in the hotel room with the glass of water?

[merh]

137. Yeah, that was the guy. Found in the tub/shower at the hotel

Only thing was, he had bruising on his face and the room looked staged.
I think it happened in Georgia and the authorities did reopen an investigation.

[moodforaday]

143. Raymond Lemme

was his name. Google him or see these links:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8484.htm
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001243.htm

[merh]

144. Thank you - I couldn't remember his name.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[merh]

145. What is telling about the suicide note is how he underlined

"family".

Was that his message that the "family" (not his family) was responsible for his death?

[ooglymoogly]

148. it was major stykes in drawing room with the candlestick

[lvx35]

4. Its the testimony of a guy asked by a congressman to write software...

...that would rig an election.

[fooj]

6. Curtis testifying under oath that the Florida election rigged ...

Hiya merh- It's a pretty powerful video. You should hear the gasps and the sounds of disgust that are clearly audible!

Peace.

[merh]

7. Where is he testifying?

More please :eyes:

[mod mom]

65. I know he met privately with Conyers and other House Judiciary (dem)staff

members when Conyers held hearing in Columbus OH in December.

[merh]

69. I can't view the video, so I don't know where the testimony is

taking place. If there were alot of cameras, he might have been at the Conyers hearings. I believe he did publically testify.

[helderheid]

142. thanks - I was looking for a date and place - I'd forgotten

[ooglymoogly]

151. why has this story gone cold as of four months ago?

[Gabi Hayes]

11. he just said Ohio was also rigged

he was asked by congressman Tom Feeney in Florida (then speaker of Florida House of reps) to write software for some software companies to rig election

he thought it was to KEEP dems from rigging elections

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Oh the gulliable

But I have heard that Ken Blackwell had in his office a main computer that could get to the votes and he changed it. Also visit http://www.cspan.org and search in the video search engine "Cliff Arnebeck" and his interview on the Washington Journal. Also visit http://www.pbs.org and watch the first part of the documentary "The Architect".

[BradBlog]

153. The COMPLETE Video of Clint Curtis' Swon Testimony...

...Is available via this link:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001047.htm

Quick summary of the Clint Curtis story here:
http://www.BradBlog.com/ClintCurtisSummary.htm

All the key articles in my special coverage of the Clint Curtis story since December:
http://www.BradBlog.com/ClintCurtis.htm


(Bumpers stickers like the above, now available at http://BradBlogathon.blogspot.com -- which will help you to...)



Brad

---
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THE BRAD BLOG - The uprising continues...
http://www.BradBlog.com
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http://www.VelvetRevolution.us

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*** http://www.BradShow.com
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*** via the IBC Satellite Radio Network! Listen Online!

[merh]

163. Thanks Brad!

:hi:

You are "A" #1 :thumbsup:

[fooj]

165. Right on! Thanks for jumping in!

Peace.:patriot:

[Gabi Hayes]

5. whoaaaaaa!!!!!

watching it now!

programmer testifying (where?) that he wrote one that could rig an election in an undetectable manner

talking about the Ohio vote now

[fooj]

9. Doesn't it make you ill? It's frightening.

:puke:


Peace.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. what's the most disgusting part is that....

they get the source code protected as proprietary material, and not subject to scrutiny

[FreedomAngel82]

32. But it's our voting

It's OUR votes. The PEOPLE. So they shouldn't have it under their property.

[RagAss]

20. Undetectable to Whom??

I've been writing code for 22 years, if the code exists it's not undetectable....

[fooj]

26. Check out the video.

Peace.

[Gabi Hayes]

27. source code

what he said was that once the code is in there, it's written so it can't be detected, unless one sees it beforehand

does that make sense?

from what little I know, these companies have proprietary control over said source code, and it's against the law for ANYbody to look at it, including election officials

if I heard correctly, the guy said that unless you can see the original source code, it's possible to disguise whatever else is in there so that one can't tell what's going on during the running of the rest of the program

I dunno if that helps

can't you get this link to run? it would be obvious to you what's going on if you can see it. I don't know if what I'm saying makes enough sense for you to evaluate. I guess I could rerun it, and look for specific points, if you tell me exactly what to look for

thx

this is old news, anyway, and I'm sure has been discussed at length here at the time it came out

anybody know about older links to this?

[RagAss]

42. Yes you are making sense..

I'm at home with a dial-up so it's not going to work for me. As far as the source code is concerned, once it's compiled and loaded you can destroy all remnants of that. If this did happen, it would have had to exists in the form of machine code(load module) at the time of the execution. A dump of memory, if still available, and the source can be reconstructed from the machine code...I hope I made some sense...the proprietary part of what he said sounds a little shaky to me ...even during government audits of companies the source is turned over to auditors for review...

[Gabi Hayes]

45. it takes a COURT ORDER to access the source code, from what

I remember reading at the time

that's one of the reasons all this crap is so amazingly disgusting

Diebold, Sequoia, etal have their hands held at every juncture by the pug congress, putting into law the stuff that makes it easy for them to do what they do

I'm sure that people from the voting machine manufacturers were in the room when the pugs were crafting said laws, just as various others from other industries/lobby groups were in the congressional meeting rooms (with ALL dems locked out) as well as WH meetings to draft legislation like this--and the energy bill, AND the medicare bill, AND the upcoming tort "reform" bill

this is how they've destroyed the country, stolen it, and given it ALL to the corporations

and the frickin media will not show ONE second of hearings like this, because it might make the sheep stop and think for a minute that, maybe, the elections really ARE being stolen

[RagAss]

47. I agree

and a court order now wouldn't do much good since if this did happen there's no doubt that the source and the loads are all gone.

[acmejack]

49. I understood it was firmware.

nt

[wli]

58. it's extremely labor intensive, but machine code can be read

I do this for a living as a very small part of my job. (Mostly it involves reading, writing, and updating source code.)

It's also a reverse engineering tactic, though I suspect not often used for legal reasons.

Anyway, hiding the source code won't truly cover their tracks if the machine code can be had, but it may slow down the investigation significantly or exceed its financial abilities barring large numbers of pro bono programmers analyzing the compiled code. More disheartening news is that it's rather probable this was arranged as "back doors" in what programs can be readily obtained, with the vote manipulation "front end" well-hidden from FBI investigative teams, without which all that can really be said is "they could have done it."

[Tux]

46. Source code

Source code can be seen once decompiled or taken apart back to source code level.

Companies do copyright source code but in cases of emergencies, gov can force them to hand over the source code.

This is why our gov should use Open Source only. It's open to every single person.

[Gabi Hayes]

48. ''This is why our gov should use Open Source only.''.....zackly

this has been the crux of a huge argument for quite awhile, and I think that's why the law was written as it was, to make it as difficult to access as possible

it's a CRIME to look at it without a court order

but, then, I'm sure there are threads that have gone into great detail about this

[wli]

66. yes, issues like these show need for open source for national security

It's rather highly probable the undue influence on the elections exerted here had a very substantial foreign component. In this sense, the election fraud was a major breach of national security.

[wli]

60. decompilation is not 1:1

Compilers perform internally things that are equivalent to "source to source transformations." By and large the output from decompilers is not much more useful than disassemblies and that's why they're not used. For one, do you even know the source language? You might be translating machine code back to a different language from the one in which the program was originally written.

What's more useful are reverse-engineering techniques that rely on the execution of the machine code and try to figure out what parts of the machine code are associated with stimuli and responses, such as is done with device drivers in countries where it's legal.

[ladjf]

74. Reviewing the source code is no answer.

Computer code can "morph" , carrying out certain instructions and then changing itself under preset conditions. Worse than that, the machines can be accessed in real time remotely. Once that happens, results can be altered to suit the operator with no way to trace it.
It is the cruelest of jokes , that the Presidency has been decided as a result of the handwork of a handful of computer programmers in the service of the Republican Party. That Americans could be that gullible and naive is beyond unbelievable.


Hello America. You Country has just been stolen from you. Aren't you even curious as to how it was done? Please don't get hypnotized by mind control crap like "family values", "ten commandments", "pray back in the schools". The bastards have stolen you Country while making you believe they are the Party of good ethics.

[wli]

87. self-modifying code is extremely difficult; embedded interpreters are not

The worst case is clearly an embedded interpreter, e.g. a Java or C# application downloaded on the fly by the voting machines.

[ladjf]

100. Exactly. That is where the greatest danger lies. And that would

be difficult to monitor, particularly if the vote tally machines have to connect to a central server to update the vote count. Until this can be secured we need to count the votes by hand. That would be a small price to pay to ensure most honest elections.

[wli]

119. please be careful with these claims

As a full-time computer programmer (in fact, operating systems programmer), I'm aware that "morphing" is not a technical term.

Here's a quick rundown.

There are such things as self-modifying programs. They are rare, extremely difficult to program correctly, and interoperate awkwardly with modern microprocessors (especially ones with separate instruction and data caches). It's very unlikely they would be used because it's a form of low-level programming that's uncommonly used, so few are practiced at it, and incredibly error-prone, so that it's very likely to have bugs, crash, and possibly produce uncontrollably incorrect results.

There are real dangers involving what's called interpreted code. Examples of this are the relatively "popular" Java and C# bytecode interpreted languages (JIT does not elevate these above bytecode interpretation). The most simple examples of interpreted code aren't widely commercially used, but literally execute programs entered as input from a keyboard, or potentially downloaded in plain text over the internet. The C# and Java bytecode languages do this sort of thing, but aren't human-readable. This "bytecode" is an artificial machine code like used on processors, but that doesn't have any actual processor associated with it, instead relying on on-the-fly translation to the processor's native machine code to be executed.

A typical scheme for "network applications" is the invocation of programs by downloading C# or Java bytecode, storing it in memory only, then executing it. This leaves no trace of the program after the computer is rebooted, so "bait and switch" schemes are phenomenally trivial.

This is not necessarily what was done, but an example of precisely how dangerous these things are, and how even which program was actually executed can be obscured. The source code and machine code provided by the potential pereptrators of fraud is very easily falsifiable.

ON EDIT: I see you're actually a computer programmer. So this is all useless for you. I'm going to leave this up because maybe it's useful to others. I hope it doesn't sound condescending (I tried to avoid it but I think it's still tainted by a slight bit of condescending-sounding phrasing anyway).

[GentryLange]

154. Yep we realize this

There's 1/10th of this country that realizes what has happened. There are another 40% that have yet to catch on. In is our job to teach them.

[ladjf]

72. Bear in mind that the"source code" can be written so that

at the end of the election day, the part of the code that carried out the fraud can easily erase itself leaving nothing but apparently legitimate code. The idea that the code can be reviewed is a senseless and misleading exercise. The critical factor that must be controlled is the real time accessibility. In other words, if the crooks have connectivity to the voting devices or counting devices, they can send instructions to be executed immediately or code to be carried out later under certain conditions and in both cases the mischief would be undetectable.

The simplest and best solution for now is to hand count paper ballots. Why not? So it takes a week or two to count them. That's a hell of a lot better than what we have now. It is totally naive to think that electronic voting machines produced by partisans will give accurate vote counts.

[wli]

88. again, probably not self-modifying code but rather interpreters

Self-modifying code is hard to get to work and hard to erase the evidence that it was engaging in self-modification. Bytecode interpreter arrangements such as Java and C# are commonplace and also commonly support dynamic downloading of the applications over the network.

[GentryLange]

155. Absolutely

[FreedomAngel82]

34. What if they're just saying that

to fool people? Can they make something like that undetectable?

[RagAss]

44. It's not so much a question of can they do it

It's more like playing the odds of having the system audited.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladjf]

76. Yes, easily. But, it's the online, remote access that is the greater

danger. If the bastards can simply log on and alter the results, that is disastrous. It would be difficult to set up an electronic
voting system that is 100% free of fraud. (Only if each voter would be willing to be tied to an identifying code number, which I don't personally mind. It would be better than what we now have.)

Otherwise, count the damn votes by hand. What's the hurry?

(Programmer for 35 years)

[RagAss]

89. True .......that is the scary part

depending on when the upload takes place, all of this can be done remotely, at one or two given sites. Hell they can even swap out the entire machine after the critical hour or two of "fixing" was over with. Then it's a crime without a body......

[i miss america]

84. According to Curtis, the software program he wrote "eats the code".

He did mention that others who specialize in forensics might be able to later retrieve it, but that was beyond his capability.

[I Have A Dream]

85. Self-deleted. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Oh yeah

Clint Curtis. He had to be telling the truth to be in court. If you visit bradblog.com and his radio show site you can hear his interview on there.

[City Lights]

10. I can't view it, so thanks to those providing details.

When was this taken, and what is being done with the information?

[Gabi Hayes]

12. Congressman Nadler is the one asking most of the questions

this must be from the dem hearings on Ohio

anybody got more on this?

what a surprise that the corpwhorate media hasn't run any of this

[fooj]

15. It certainly wasn't for lack of cameras in the place!

Peace.

[leesa]

138. I was wondering what they did with all that lovely footage they shot?

All the cameras intently snapping photos, but for what? Great video. Thank you.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Oh I know why

It's that darn liberal media. :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fooj]

17. Welcome to DU!

Peace.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. As the old saying goes

follow the money. This is why I believe the coin scandal is tied to the last election.

[Stirk]

14. When was this footage taken?

[Gabi Hayes]

19. the only way to find out if there's funny business going on with BBV

machines is to see the source code BEFORE they're enabled (linked voting machines with central tabulator)

otherwise, he said that only 100 lines or so of code would make it impossible to tell that anything had been altered

it would work for one machine, or ANY that were linked to a central tabulator. as long as they can "talk" to each other, they can be fixed, with NO WAY to tell, because that's the way they'd be programmed

the only way to tell would be to see the source code, which, of course, is proprietary, and protected under LAW from being looked at by election officials

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fooj]

24. Looks like you've stepped up. Welcome to DU!

Peace.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fooj]

23. Do you think we'll ever have an authentic election?

I'm truly concerned.

[City Lights]

39. Not in the near future.

Democracy in America died 12/12/00, IMO. It's been downhill from there.

I think the only way to get rid of these machines is to have someone hack them in favor of a Democrat. The pukes would never stand for it.

[Eric J in MN]

101. Even if every line of code is checked, ,,

Suppose the day before the election, the voting-machine company tells the Sec. of State that there is an emergency and they need to fix something or the election will be a disaster, what will the Sec. of State say?

I think he or she will tell the voting-machine company to go ahead and make changes.

In Georgia in 2002, Diebold made last-minute changes.

I believe in paper ballots, publicly hand-counted at the precinct on Election Night.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I'm watching this now. Thanks Fooj!

How did you get this? By the looks of the position of the video camera, it looks like this was snuck into the courtroom. Is this why this haven't been shown on the major networks?

[Gabi Hayes]

38. it's got to be another unofficial dem hearing, as there are several

congresspeople there

I don't remember it, but didn't Conyers hold hearings on Ohio, too?

somebody did, and somebody here must have started a thread or more on it

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Yes they did

They held hearings in Ohio. I do believe that's what this is from.

[progressoid]

40. What ever happened to that guy. I thought he was supposed to have the

smoking gun.

[seabeyond]

50. yes what happened to him. felll off radar. forgot about him n/t

[understandinglife]

43. Thank you fooj. Now's a good time for everyone to be reflecting on this ..

http://www.peacecandy.com/gwbush/remindus
REMIND US

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[Gabi Hayes]

51. check this GDP thread....lots of info on Curtis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1969339&mesg_id=1969935

[Gabi Hayes]

52. from Bradblog....this is pretty interesting.....from last December

The programmer claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District.

Clint Curtis, 46, claims that he built the software for Feeney in 2000 while working at a sofware design and engineering company in Oviedo, Florida (Feeney's home district).

Curtis, in his affidavit, says that as technical advisor and programmer at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) he was present at company meetings where Feeney was present "on at least a dozen occasions".

Feeney, who had run in 1994 as Jeb Bush's running-mate in his initial unsuccessful bid for Florida Governor, was serving as both corporate counsel and registered lobbyist for YEI during the period that Curtis worked at the company. Feeney was also concurrently serving as a Florida state congressman while performing those services for YEI. Feeney would eventually become Speaker of the Florida House before being elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002. He is now a member of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee.

At an October 2000 meeting with Feeney, according to the affidavit and BRAD BLOG interviews with Curtis over the past three days, Feeney inquired whether the company could build a "vote fraud software prototype".

At least three YEI employees are said to have been present at that meeting; Curtis, company owner, Mrs. Li Woan Yang, and her executive secretary, Mike Cohen. Two other YEI employees may have come in and out at different points of the meeting according to Curtis.

Curtis says that Feeney "was very specific in the design and specifications required for this program."

"He detailed, in his own words, that; (a) the program needed to be touch-screen capable (b) the user should be able to trigger the program without any additional equipment (c) the programming to accomplish this needed to stay hidden even if the source code was inspected."

Though there was no problem with the first two requirements, Curtis explained to the Congressman that it would be "virtually impossible to hide such code written to change the voting results if anyone is able to review the uncompiled source code"

Nonetheless, he was asked at the meeting by Mrs. Yang to build the prototype anyway.

Curtis, "a life-long Republican" at the time, claims that it was his initial belief that Feeney's interest was in trying to stop Democrats from using "such a program to steal an election". Curtis had assumed that Feeney, "wanted to be able to detect and prevent that if it occurred."

Upon delivery of the software design and documentation on CD to Mrs. Yang, Curtis again explained to her that it would be impossible to hide routines created to manipulate the vote if anybody would be able to inspect the precompiled source code.

Mrs. Yang then told him, "You don’t understand, in order to get the contract we have to hide the manipulation in the source code. This program is needed to control the vote in South Florida."

Mrs. Yang then took the CD containing the software from Curtis, reportedly for later delivery to Feeney.

In other meetings with Feeny prior to the 2000 elections, it became clear to Curtis that Feeney had plans to suppress the vote in strong Democratic precincts. In the affidavit, Curtis claims that in those meetings Feeney had "bragged that he had already implemented 'exclusion lists' to reduce the 'black vote'." Feeney also mentioned that "proper placement of police patrols could further reduce the black vote by as much as 25%."

Curtis says that he submitted his resignation to YEI effective December 2000, but stayed on until they had found someone to replace him in February of 2001. He eventually became employed by the Florida Dept. of Transportation (FDOT) after leaving YEI.

But the scandals didn't stop there.....
---------

read it here:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001024.htm

EDIT: note the highlighted section above....so what does this mean, in terms of find out later?j wouldn't/shouldn't it be easy to find out what happened, even now, unless, of course, the machines have been tampered with since the event. we all know the answer to that one, don't we?

[niallmac]

53. Soooo...doesn't someone go to jail? DNC sue the RNC? Just another day?n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

54. what's stunning is that the Achordate Party hasn't raised holy HELL about

this since this hearing last year

they should STILL be talking about it, and should have talked about only THIS til the frickin corpwhorate media are forced to cover it

it's only about the end of whatever tiny bit of democracy we have left

I knew it was bad, but didn't realize it was THIS bad

[wli]

68. I read this a while ago, I think years ago

[Gabi Hayes]

70. do you have a time machine, or what?

jst kdn, but....you're talking about Florida, right?

this hearing was WRT Ohio, and the Curtis guy was apparently talking about his knowledge of the Florida theft, giving background for this December, 04 hearing

judging from the gasps elicted from the audience, it wasn't very common knowledge amongst them, four years later

[wli]

78. I meant Florida, yes. Sorry about the confusion.

[Gabi Hayes]

56. link for dial up

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ConyersOhioHearing_chunk_8.wmv

[nicknameless]

104. Thanks for the link!

:hi:

[jarnocan]

57. thanks couple MUST read related articles!

I am marching to IMPEACH BUSH!
None DARE call it STOLEN <http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1383> this is an article from Harpers MAG- BUY it and share it if you can GREAT! and the book by NYU's Mark C. Miller will be out in Oct.

Also this one- <http://www.crisispapers.org/essays-p/certainwin.htm> a Must read if you care about DFA (democracy in America)

[Gabi Hayes]

62. just checked your blog...who's your favorite Xtian reconstructionist?

I have to go for Rushdoony

seen that URL with his amazing quotes?

I've been pushing the CNP stuff since 99, when I first heard about it

there's a link with the text of a speech Dobson gave to one of their meetings (all secret), in which he regales them about not being radical enough, basically

and you know who the members of this group include: some of the craziest of the crazy

[jarnocan]

80. Falwell is a good one to talk about-folks at least know and

many people who don't know much about these issues at least have heard of him, and often don't like him. We had several CNP/ dominionism threads on OLS. Falwell links a lot of sordid BushInc.related history- Ollie North, Sun Myung Moon, etc.
I wish more people just knew some of the basic facts- even if they disagree with some details, but when they don't even know ANY of the relevant back ground information, it is hard to explain. It's like the learning process - the way we learn- we link information to stuff we already know. Even if the media begins to report the truth - they would have to play catch up- somehow.
Trying to get some folks to understand the elction fraud issue is like teaching algebra to a second grader.
<http://jarnocan.blogspot.com> I don't write too much on it- mostly just links. thanks.

[EFerrari]

61. Thanks, fooj

:kick:

[BeHereNow]

63. Again, the media simply blacks it all out-

This is outrageous, but again, what good
is all of it when the truth is kept from the people?
I really don't think I want to live here anymore-
it is just getting to scary.
I understand and respect those who say
"Stay and fight" but without an honest media
and representation in our houses of legislation,
how do you win against this BEAST that has
taken over the country?
How?
BHN

[SammyWinstonJack]

135. I'm with you.

I don't want to live here anymore either. I'd leave now if I could, and I haven't always felt this way.

[dogday]

67. Not surprised by this.

This is why paper ballots are so important.

[Gabi Hayes]

71. not even that....another disgusting thing about this is that Curtis

specifically mentioned "receipts" that can be checked against the machine totals

and we all know how much against that the voting machine companies (and, of course, the pugs, are)

I guess, as sickening as all this is, the worst part....worse than the thieves, and their enablers in the media, is that the goddamn
Demachordate Party refuses to stand up behind the members that gave this hearing, and REFUSES to make an issue out of it, even though it's so obvious that they had the election STOLEN from them two times, at least

It's utterly mindboggling (to the point of insanity-driving) to try to understand how they can NOT make this their most important issue

or is it just me?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[annabanana]

82. ding ding..

DNC = PPI
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/demleadcoun.php

PPI's Will Marshall = PNAC

look it up, and let the people know

[nicknameless]

94. I'm pretty sure you mean DLC. That's what your link is to.

They truly are scum.

[nicknameless]

97. They're a "nonprofit?" Look at who funds them:

Funding

The DLC and its close associate, the Progressive Policy Institute, are the recipients of grants from many Fortune 500 companies and such right-wing foundations as the Bradley Foundation. Corporate contributors to the Progressive Policy Institute include AT&T Foundation, Eastman Kodak Charitable Trust, Prudential Foundation, Georgia-Pacific Foundation, Chevron, and Amoco Foundation. (17) The Third Way Foundation, an umbrella group of the New Democrats in the DLC, receives funding from the Lynde & Harry Bradley Foundation, Howard Gilman Foundation, Ameritech Foundation, and General Mills Foundation. According to one magazine report, the DLC enjoys funding from Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, and Raytheon. (9)

:puke:

[bobbieinok]

161. my post on another thread (Will Pitt's)

BUT who controls the media and who counts the vote?????
I said this after FL2000 when everyone was soooo confident about 2002.....and after 2002 when everyone was soooo confident about 2004

people at DU are aware and working on the problem but WHERE ARE THE ELECTED DEMOCRATS AND THE PARTY LEADERS????????.....it's really very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt when the rigged process is obvious to a 5th grader

HOW CAN ANY ELECTED DEMOCRAT THINK S/HE IS LIVING IN A 'POLITICS AS USUAL' WORLD??????

the republicans are fighting a total war and take no prisoners

WE see this clearly.......WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATIC ELECTED OFFICIALS????.......they must be bought, threatened (and their families) or JUST TOO STUPID TO BE OUT WITHOUT A KEEPER

[Joanne98]

73. Is this the guy who killed himself?

[MelissaB]

77. I don't think so.

I think he's still alive.

[Joanne98]

79. For our beloved Andy NOMINATED!

[fooj]

83. Yes. I've been thinking about him all day.

This is for you, my friend. This is for you.

Peace.

[lateo]

81. Wonder why the MSM didn't cover this....

um yeah.

[BamaBecky]

86. Thanks fooj.....where and when was the hearing?.....Ohio...?

Bama

[RagAss]

90. All They needed was one hour

One hour in the early evening when the polls were packed, and they could have swayed the OHIO vote by 4-6 percent. Without any solid evidence we can only speculate. However, it was the first time in my memory that exit polls failed so miserably.....makes you wonder...

[Gabi Hayes]

110. you forgot Florida.....the polls at NINE PM CST had Gore winning

that was FLORIDA that put Glore over

I was at a local Dem candidate's 'victory celebration,' after pounding pavement that day, getting out vote.

I was too tired to stay much longer than that, but, thinking it was all over, I went home, only to wake up to a five year living nitghtmare

the same thing happened there.....they had Gore winning by like 30 thousand votes, IIRC

[AuntiBush]

91. O.M.G....

It's one thing to hear about it; to read about it, but when one actually sees the testimony from some one whom stands before all the cameras, Congressional members, a Judge and other citizens it smacks you hard.

So how does one get "paper-trails" in their state? When I call around to various legislatures they scoff, ignore, pass the buck, etc. Many people I know have given-up on voting all together, quite frankly.

[kster]

93. We have to see

the source code frst, in order to make any type of voter verified paper ballots work.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

95. Paper ballots. Random, external audits. 'Nuff said.

[nicknameless]

96. How is it that Conyers compiled a 101-page report about the election

"irregularities" testified about at these hearings, but the DNC still managed to conclude that they could find no evidence of fraud? :grr:

[lonestarnot]

98. Damn, can't get it either!

[nicknameless]

103. Gabi Hayes posted a link for those of us with dial-up:

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ConyersOhioHearing_chunk_8.wmv

Thanks, Gabi! :hi:

[lonestarnot]

105. Nope still can't get it! I hate this computer!

[nicknameless]

107. Do you have a Mac?

If so, hold down the "option" key while clicking on the link. That way you can download the file directly onto your computer.

[lonestarnot]

112. Nope not a Mac.

[nicknameless]

115. Sorry. Wish I could help.

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

116. I'm sorry too! and also wish you could help. Thanks for the kind offer.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toucano]

102. What is this?

Where is this testimony being given?

Who shot it?

[MelissaB]

108. I think the hearing was in Ohio, but I don't remember who shot it.

I do believe it was on CSPAN, too.

[Toucano]

130. Thank you. n/t

[Joanne98]

106. Send it to Eliot SPITZER!

[Digit]

109. More people need to see this!

Nominated!

[jarnocan]

129. Will put it

on meet up, OLS and CARE2-RhandiR. ???? there are many sites (fan or activity realted sites? -that have political related forums, or even gneral discussion areas wherein you can sometimes post an event or info- without getteing tooo heavy-but sometimes it can lead to.... or if you have other interest- you can just chat but have links in your sigy ETC.
but it takes more time-

[peacebuzzard]

111. Under oath! Proof of stolen election. I am stunned.

Good work, fooj.

[buzzard]

114. I think it was rigged but it still doesn't constitute proof.n/t

[peacebuzzard]

133. Sad but true. Not verifiable per se.

[Liberal In Texas]

113. I can't believe I haven't seen this before. If this had been a story 30

years ago or so, the MSM would have been leading every newscast with it. How far we have fallen. How compromised the MSM has become. Now we should call them the M$M, because that's all they care about.

[Redstone]

117. It's an interesting black screen, but not very scary.

Redstone

[mconvente]

118. working for me

omfg... this is crazy... fucking send this shit to AirAmerica and Spitzer damn straight

[nicknameless]

120. I got the "interesting black screen" too until I used the link that

Gabi Hayes posted for dial-ups:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ConyersOhioHearing_chunk_8.wmv

[Redstone]

121. Nope. That didn't work for me either, but then again,

I don't use Microsoft software.

I'll live without having seen it.

Redstone

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Henny Penny]

157. download the file and use realplayer to view if you like.

this stuff is important, and you need to share it.

[Ladyhawk]

124. I couldn't even stomach it tonight.

Why can't things ever be simple, anymore? Knowing or suspecting something is REALLY, REALLY wrong with my country has become quite a personal burden. I know the same is true for each of you and we all have our own shit to deal with. I think those in power count on that.

But when that shit hits the fan, let there be a day of reckoning. Let all the secrets and lies spew forth. Let the eyes of the ignorant and the complicit be opened as we shout for victory. Let a new day dawn: a day of freedom and renewed hope for the future.

[snot]

125. fooj, I don't see an answer: where was this?

Sorry if I just overlooked it, but. Conyers' hearing? or where?

[fooj]

126. Sorry! I thought I'd mentioned where earlier--here's the scoop--

It was a hearing held in Columbus, Ohio. It was conducted by the Judiciary Dem. Committee on 12-13-04. It was called Election 2004 Voting Irregularities. I knew about this as it was happening but I had NEVER seen the video. Wow. It hit me like a ton of bricks! The testimony is UNDER OATH! Apparently, there were other witnesses who testified. Curtis wasn't the only one. Those rat bastards have got to be stopped!

Bradblog has info in his 12-13-04 archives.

Peace.

[snot]

162. thanks, thought that might be it, but wanted to be sure. nt

[Rex]

127. Is this for real???

OMG

[purple in the south]

131. Curtis is a republican...

I met him earlier this year in nashville at a voter conference..Andy was there too.....Paper trails to you!

[slay]

150. Welcome to DU - purple in the south!

Yeah, there are a few Republicans who actually care about what is right, and Mr Curtis seems to be one of them. :)

[PaDUer]

136. The video stopped

half-way through..is there anyway to see/hear the entire video?? Does anyone have any idea why it stopped because I'm on a cable connection and not dial-up...Thanks..

[Henny Penny]

158. download the whole file as per link of gabi Hayes via post 120 n/t

[In Truth We Trust]

139. Paper ballots NOW!!! Hand counts NOW!!! Impeachment NOW!!! nt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

140. I'd love a copy of this... but the player is embedded in the browser

makeing it a bit of a trick to lock it down on the drive... there is a certain person I know who needs to see this in its entirety....

[moodforaday]

146. Direct link

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ConyersOhioHearing_chunk_8.wmv

Right-click and click "Save target as" or "Save link as" (or the equivalent in your browser)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

152. Thank you very much.... I have already found a way to do it.... you

can click on properties of the embedded video... get the exact url... and tell Windows Media Player to open that url. Once it has completely buffered you can do a "File" "Save As". Thanks for your effort.... :)

[helderheid]

141. I remember seeing this a while back - does anyone know the date and place

when this took place?

[merh]

147. Wasn't that the December 13 testimony at Conyer's hearing?

:shrug:

Edited to add link: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001047.htm

[slay]

149. BradBlog has done some great reports on Mr Curtis and the election fraud

Check them out here:
http://www.bradblog.com/ClintCurtis.htm

[GentryLange]

156. Dinner and a Movie Parties

I've started having dinner and a movie house parties and just showing these videos I find. This one is essential.

All I do is hook up speakers and run it on my laptop.

I'm taking this everywhere and showing it all the time.

[fooj]

164. Thanks Gentry!

Welcome to DU!!!

Peace.

[Gabi Hayes]

166. kickala

[fooj]

167. Kicking it for Voter Verified Paper Ballots!

Peace.

[Gabi Hayes]

168. kick, for the latest stolen election

[greblc]

169. Were does this allegation go from here?

How will it make the Mainstream Media?