How much better of a human being and President was Bush 41 ?

[steve2470]

It's my impression that GHWB was a better person and a better president than the Chimp. What do you think ?

on edit: I did vote for Clinton in 1992 without hesitation, and voted for Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. Hm, yes. And Mussolini was better than Hitler too. (nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. That about sums it up

[evil eggplant]

29. well said (nt)

[peekaloo]

2. He seems much more adept at concealing his sleazebagishness.

[havocmom]

3. Hmm, tough call. He did fire Rove.

But he was in Dallas that day in 63. GHWB actually did a lot more that W. W is the public face on a big criminal operation but really doesn't do much.

[greenbriar]

4. compared to Alfred E Newman

he didn't fuck up too badly

[gratuitous]

5. Considering the pardons he issued December 24, 1992

I'd say that the record on the elder Bush will be forever incomplete. On December 24, 1992, having lost the election to Bill Clinton, a lame duck Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger, Eliot Abrams and other figures in the Iran/contra affair 10 days before Weinberger's trial was to start. Lawrence Walsh, the special prosecutor, had developed facts and evidence in the matter that would have seriously challenged Bush's contention that he was "out of the loop" on Iran/contra during the time in question when he was Vice President.

The pardons, as I say, were announced in the middle of the night during the holiday season by a lame duck president and looked suspiciously like he was saving his own skin by issuing them. The librul media were largely silent on the matter.

[priller]

6. Yes, and that's why the Pukes turned on him

GHWB was forced to raise taxes (as was Reagan before him) because he saw the deficits without end that the supply-side idiots had forced on him. So he had to break his famouse "read my lips" pledge in order to act responsibly. The Pukes hate many things, a great many things, be they hate nothing more than taxes.

As far as being a better President, well, he was better just because Dubya is THE WORST EVER. Otherwise I don't think he was that good.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. No, he raised GWB

and basically taught him that its ok to be a giant fratboy who cares only for himself (by letting him screw over his oil company, by letting him sneak out of war, by letting him wriggle off the DUI).

GWB reflects the real values of GHB. GHB was just a better phony.

[bunkerbuster1]

8. I could tolerate him.

I voted for Clinton in '92 and was glad he won, but I could've dealt with another four years of Poppy. Don't forget what a massive upgrade he was over the Drooler-in-Chief from 81-89.

Yes, I know, he was CIA, he did dirty shit to get himself and Raygun elected and all that.

But he was a realist, and he did have the capability to acknowledge mistakes and do the right thing even when it could cost him politically.

I'd take the old coot in a hearbeat over Dim Son if there were a way to replace him this very day.

[shelley806]

15. Dim Son!!! LOL....I enjoyed reading your response..eom

[Frederik]

16. Bush was Reagan's Cheney

Reagan had no clue what was going on, at least not in his second term. Bush was probably the spider in the "shadow government" web of Iran Contras and related shenannigans.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. He is just smarter.

That's all. He was head of the CIA so he knows how to keep his mouth shut. But I really think he is just as evil and mean-spirited as his son.

[Mandate My Ass]

32. More evil though he hid it better

Although I have a more visceral reaction to Jr., he's just a stooge for the neocon assault on democracy started by GHWB in his three terms in office. There is no dirty trick he didn't use when it suited him. The son is a loose cannon but he's still being controlled from behind the scenes. He couldn't find his own butt without a road map and a flashlight, so ultimately his personality makes him appear more evil than he is.

Poppy's now in his fifth term, if you ask me, and we can all see how that's going.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

10. It was Quayle I detested

In my mind 41 was much better than 43...but I still voted for Clinton in 92 (for the reason in my subject line)

[Jackpine Radical]

11. GHWB: Smarter, ergo more dangerous.

Definitely more criminal overall if only because he spent less of his life in a relatively harmless drugged and drunken stupor. Maybe part of the JFK assassination, certainly part of the October Surprise & up to his eyebrows in Iran-Contra. He was the brains behind the Acting President.

[Frederik]

12. Not at all

Poppy is a horrible human being. If anything, Junior is the lesser evil. Poppy, to me, represents decadent, malicious wickedness of the most pernicious and malign sort.

[jobycom]

13. Not a lot better, but he was more stable and not a coward

Bush Daddy was a lying sack of dirt, too. He encouraged Hussein to invade Iraq, then attacked Iraq when he did. He lied about Hussein amassing weapons along the Saudi border so Bush could put US troops in Saudi Arabia. He lied about the Iraqis dumping babies out of incubators in Kuwiat. That war killed a quarter of a million people. At the end, Bush encouraged the Shi'a to rebel, and when they did, Bush stood back and let Hussein squash them. Bush waged the war by bombing out the infrastructure and power plants, in a desert, heading into summer. There is no telling how many additional lives that cost, but the sanctions that some people blame Clinton for not lifting were created during Bush Daddy's term.

In the flow of events leading to the war, it was obvious that Bush was invading only to boost his numbers. He had invaded Panama to shake the nickname of "wimp," and Iraq was just a bigger boost in his numbers.

Panama invasion: 2000 lives. Iraq: 250,000, plus maybe a million dead in the aftermath. Result of both wars: nothing of significance.

At home Bush failed to deal with a recession. Finally, Congress forced him to accept a tax cut and then began overriding every veto Bush issued (Bush holds the record for overridden vetoes), and then the economy began to improve. Repubs still try to claim Bush started the recovery, but it started when Bush signed a massive tax increase against his will to reduce the deficit.

He made "liberal" a bad word, he used more of Reagan's divide-and-conquer strategy, further splitting the nation, he ran slanderous attacks on all his opponents (Dukakis, Clinton, and his own party).

He was implicated in the Iran/Contra scandal that should have put him and Reagan in jail, and the investigation was coming to a close near the end of Bush's term. So, on New Years Eve, Bush pardoned Caspar Weinburger and Robert McFarland, and others, to prevent them being forced to testify against him. Most extreme example of obstruction ever. The investigation collapsed, and Bush and Reagan remained free, after selling weapons to a nation that had declared war on us and giving that money to terrorists who were killing Americans.

He left the US economy and budget in such tatters that when Clinton took over, Clinton considered charging Daddy with fraud, because he had obviously been cooking the books to prevent Americans from knowing how bad things were. Clinton decided it would hurt our economy more to do so, so he let Bush off the hook. Sadly, considering. Bush released false budget numbers, false labor statistics, and false information all over just to boost his image. He remarked a couple of times that the economy would improve if people just quit feeling so bad about it, and he really seemed to believe this. During his last State of the Union Speech, he laid out a comprehensive plan to revive the economy that sounded exactly like what Clinton had been proposing during his campaign speeched. Democrats all vowed to support this plan. Bush never put it into place, and a couple of months later when asked about it, he said rather nonchalantly that he never had any intentions of doing any of those things, he had just said that to raise people's confidence in the economy, so it would improve.

Lying to him was a completely justifiable and even laudatory deed on his own part. He felt he was best for the nation, and any lie which kept him in power was what was best for the sheep he led.

Bush also appointed Clarence Thomas, just because Thomas had no experience and was therefore unable to be attacked for his written views. Bush Jr is doing that now with Roberts.

Bush was all politics, no integrity.

So no, Bush Daddy wasn't a better person, but he was more stable, and he wasn't quite as scary.

[shelley806]

17. Wow!! This organized info on organized 'political ' crime is worth

bookmarking...What a b*tard.

[lectrobyte]

27. Excellent post. And by comparison, I'd much rather have

41 then *.

[jobycom]

28. I'd rather 41 than 43, too.

He was just as evil, but better at getting things done. I'd rather Bush Daddy than Reagan, too. After that, I run out of presidents I'd put him ahead of. He'd tie with Nixon, and maybe edge out Andrew Jackson. Maybe.

[livinginphotographs]

14. W is just a sociopath.

HW is genuinely evil.

[69KV]

18. No difference at all

The Bush Crime Family is the Bush Crime Family.

Poppy Bush fomented a war against Iraq in 1991, Chimpy fomented one today.

Poppy Bush rapidly expanded the War on Drugs and "anti-terrorist" laws that were basically a federal intelligence agency wish list, Chimpy rapidly expanded the War on Terror and "homeland security" laws that are the same thing.

Both are up to their necks in Texas oil interests. Both were put into office by the same criminal far-right scumbags who control the Republican Party and control their nominating process.

[shelley806]

19. Kick......n/t

[ArkDem]

21. Well, he did adopt Bill Clinton.

[steve2470]

22. Wow ! Why doesn't someone write a book on this ?

Is it because their small plane would crash ?

[Minstrel Boy]

23. Much, much worse

GHWB is an affable monster who's bloodied his hands with some of the state's most heinous crimes.

See, for instance, Webster Tarpley's biography of Bush, which is available online.

[ArkDem]

25. Are he and Lyndon LaRouche still best friends?

[sakabatou]

24. Yeah, Bush Sr, was a better president and person than his son

[Goldmund]

26. Nah

Just different stages in the Neocon takeover of the US.

[Javaman]

30. Bush one was human, moron* 2 was spawned.

[Lannes]

31. Wasnt a fan of 41 either

But at least the elder Bush could change course at times when he knew something wasnt working.W will drive this country over a cliff before he will admit that he made a mistake.