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Alright, flame me, but it could have been MUCH worse

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:13 PM
Original message
Alright, flame me, but it could have been MUCH worse
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 07:22 PM by liberalpragmatist
I'll keep an open-mind and watch the hearings intently. I may well change my mind and swith to vociferous opposition. However, as of now, having been following the court speculation for some time, I feel that Roberts is a better pick than I was expecting. Either Clement or Garza or Brown or Jones would have been FAR worse. As for Gonzales, we have no idea what to expect - he has very little public record. So we might wind up with a torturer-Souder or a Hispanic Scalia. There's a much bigger record on this guy and for a Bush nominee, this is relatively good news

First off, let's be realistic - there's no way that Bush was going to nominate someone who was for Roe v. Wade. Additionally, it's hard to tell what Roberts' actual position is, since when he wrote that Roe v. Wade should be overturned he was arguing on behalf of the first Bush administration.

So what we get is clearly someone conservative, but a relatively mainline conservative. He does not, at this point, appear to be a supporter of the "constitution-in-exile"-movement which wants to wipe out the New Deal and return to the court of the 1920s. By most accounts, Roberts has a healthy respect for precedent. He's going to rule against us plenty of times. But that would be the case with ANY Bush nominee. Better we have someone who's at least rational and relatively reasonable - not a right-wing wacko.

Obviously there's going to be a lot of back and forth on this guy. You already have plenty of links to more incriminating profiles on other threads. Here's one that makes me a *little* more hopeful.

This is from a good article Jeffrey Rosen wrote for the New Republic some time back which evaluated possible SC nominees. Noting that Bush was going to pick a conservative, Rosen broke the possible nominees down into "the conservative activists," who he said should be filibustered and opposed at all costs, and the more "acceptable" choices, the "principled conservatives." Besides Roberts, other "principled conservatives" Rosen listed included McConnell and Wilkinson (either of whom, IMO, would have been better choices from our p.o.v.). Janice Rogers Brown, Edith Clement, Edith Jones, Samuel Alito, and Garza were grouped into the other.

John Roberts, 49. U.S. Court of Appeals for the Washington, D.C., Circuit. Top of his class at Harvard Law School and a former law clerk for Rehnquist, Roberts is one of the most impressive appellate lawyers around today. Liberal groups object to the fact that, in 1990, as a deputy solicitor general, Roberts signed a brief in a case involving abortion-financing that called, in a footnote, for Roe v. Wade to be overturned. But it would be absurd to Bork him for this: Overturning Roe was the Bush administration's position at the time, and Roberts, as an advocate, also represented liberal positions, arguing in favor of affirmative action, against broad protections for property rights, and on behalf of prisoners' rights. In little more than a year on the bench, he has won the respect of his liberal and conservative colleagues but has not had enough cases to develop a clear record on questions involving the Constitution in Exile. On the positive side, Roberts joined Judge Merrick Garland's opinion allowing a former employee to sue the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority for disability discrimination. He pointedly declined to join the unsettling dissent of Judge David Sentelle, a partisan of the Constitution in Exile, who argued that Congress had no power to condition the receipt of federal transportation funds on the Metro's willingness to waive its immunity from lawsuits. In another case, however, Roberts joined Sentelle in questioning whether the Endangered Species Act is constitutional under Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce. The regulation in question prevented developers from building on private lands in order to protect a rare species of toad, and Roberts noted with deadpan wit that "the hapless toad ... for reasons of its own, lives its entire life in California," and therefore could not affect interstate commerce. Nevertheless, Roberts appears willing to draw sensible lines: He said that he might be willing to sustain the constitutionality of the Endangered Species Act on other grounds. All in all, an extremely able lawyer whose committed conservatism seems to be leavened by a judicious temperament.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041129&s=rosen112904
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm relieved it is not the war criminal Gonzales.
Yes, it could have been worse.

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ole_evil_eye Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree
I mean, conservative doesn't necessarily equal bad.

But you're right, it could've been much much worse. And at least the guy has alot of experience and looks like he MIGHT be alright
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, it could have been fucking Edith Jones.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Naral's old fact sheet on John Roberts included the statements below:
Naral's old fact sheet on John Roberts included the statements below:


NARAL: REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM & CHOICE JUNE 2001
John G. Roberts, Jr.
Previously nominated by President George Bush to the United States
Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, 1992.
Principal Deputy Solicitor General of the United States, 1989-93.

"The Court was so accustomed to the Solicitor General and the Deputy Solicitor General arguing for the overturn of Roe that during John Roberts¡¦ oral argument before the Supreme Court in Bray, a Justice asked, ¡§Mr. Roberts, in this case are you asking that Roe v. Wade be overruled?¡¨ He responded, ¡§No, your honor, the issue doesn¡¦t even come up.¡¨ To this the justice said, ¡§Well that hasn¡¦t prevented the Solicitor General from taking that position in prior cases.¡¨Transcript of Oral Argument of John Roberts, Jr., dated Oct. 16, 1991, Bray v. Alexandria Women¡¦s Health Clinic, 506 U.S. 263 (1993) (No. 90-985).

As Deputy Solicitor General, Roberts argued in a brief before the U.S. Supreme Court (in a case that did not implicate Roe v. Wade) that ¡§e continue to believe that Roe was wrongly decided and should be overruled¡K. he Court¡¦s conclusion in Roe that there is a fundamental right to an abortion¡K finds no support in the text, structure, or history of the Constitution.¡¨Brief for the Respondent at 13, Rust v. Sullivan, 500 U.S. 173 (1991) (Nos. 89-1391, 89-1392).
In Rust v. Sullivan -500 U.S. 173 (19917), the Supreme Court considered whether Department of Health and Human Services regulations limiting the ability of Title X recipients to engage in abortion-related activities violated various constitutional provisions. Roberts, appearing on behalf of HHS as Deputy Solicitor General, argued that this domestic gag rule did not violate constitutional protections.ƒnRoberts, again as Deputy Solicitor General, argued as amicus curiae for the United States supporting Operation Rescue and six other individuals who routinely blocked access to reproductive health care clinics, arguing that the
protesters¡¦ behavior did not amount to discrimination against women even though only women could exercise the right to seek an abortion. Intervening as amicus is a wholly discretionary decision on the part of the Solicitor General. Here the government chose to involve itself in a case in support of those who sought to deprive women of the right to choose. Roberts argued that the protesters¡¦ blockade and protests merely amounted to an expression of their opposition to abortion and that a civil rights remedy was therefore inappropriate.


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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. He is a member of the Federalist Society
just as Janice Rogers Brown, so therefore, he also holds to their beliefs of strict construction... i.e. that the constitution is not a evolving document.

Look at http://www.fed-soc.org

The problem is, he's not been at the appellate level very long and there is not a body of opinions to review to ascertain his exact ideology, but the fact that he is a member of the federalist society should give people some pause.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. I was thinking before Roberts
was picked that rove would pick someone "outrageous" ..so as to deflect from himself.

Maybe they screwed themselves on that.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm not convinced he'd advocate overturning Roe v Wade
I'll be the same. Watch the hearings and see how it goes. He appears to me that he's got a mind of his own and doesn't seem to be some RW nutjob.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. He certainly DOES appear to be a white male RW nut job!!!
We'll see if W asked Democrat legislators about him.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Olberman just said he was a member of the Federalist Society
I take back what I said :scared:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Even though he isn't gone yet, Rehnquist is being replaced first,
to get the religious zealots off of Bush's back.

The balancing/moderate nominee won't be picked until Rehnquist leaves, and maybe not even then, because George doesn't give a rat's ass about abortion one way or another.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. do degrees really matter?
He's a pro-corporate, anti-environment, pro-religion and anti-Roe nominee.

Could we have done MUCH worse? Gee, I guess. Does that matter? Is that any reason to not oppose him, that one of the alternatives might have been worse?

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Sound like he stepped right out of
freeper world....
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Yes, there are degrees
There are lawyers and SC judges whose goals are to shred precedent, upend the law, and remake the body of law in their own image. That is the view of many of Bush's supreme court picks who are often people who have stated that they believe that all of the New Deal was unconstitutional. Janice Rogers Brown has called it "our Socialist revolution" and many support a completely bogus "right of contract" that protects corporations far above-and-beyond individual rights.

Roberts IS a conservative who will likely rule against us time and time again if he is confirmed. But at least according to his record thus far, he seems like a more mainstream conservative who is relatively practical and has a healthy respect for precedent.

Now, I could well be proven wrong, so I'll keep an eye on him and watch carefully. But at least for now, I'm relatively releaved.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. You should inform yourself about his position on "takings"
Basically he believes that environmental regulations are 'takings' under the 5th. Such a position leads to the total destruction of all environmental protections past, present, and future. Fuck that.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Okay
Do you have a good link? I'm genuinely open-minded to this guy, I'm just saying that based on what I've read he's a relatively good pick for a BUSH nominee. But I might revise my opinion.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. See:
“The Takings Clause,” Developments in the Law – Zoning, 91 Harvard Law Review 1462, 1464 (1978).

See also:

A brief summary of his position:

As a law student, Roberts authored two law review articles arguing for the courts to interpret clauses of the Constitution in ways that would weaken key worker, consumer, and environmental protections.39Interestingly, he advanced interpretations of both the Takings and Contracts Clauses that went against long-standing precedent and explicitly rejected “plain language,” or literal interpretation of the Constitution’s language.In the first article, Roberts offered his view of the Takings Clause, which requires that the government give “just compensation” for takings of “private property.” Roberts claimed that courts trying to ascertain its meaning, “have not been significantly aided by the words of the clause, which are incapable of being given simple, clear-cut meaning… Indeed, the very phrase ‘just compensation’ suggests that the language of the clause must be informed by changing norms of.....

http://www.independentjudiciary.com/resources/docs/John_Roberts_Report.pdf
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are you a woman?
You might ask some of the lady DUers about Roberts.

Hint: Do not believe a word in your OP. I certianly don't

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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. I KNEW before I came here that some DU'rs would be "relieved" that this
guy "could have been worse." This is why we always lose.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Lead, follow or get out of the way
Du'rs going to follow a white male right wing nut job appointed by the worst and most damaging president this country has ever had?

Settle for crumbs?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. He could have been worse
but that doesn't mean he is a good choice.
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. WTF do y'all expect from *
Another Marshall??? Get real.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yeah. Arsenic is easier on your tummy than Strychnine.
We should all be relieved.
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