Tony Blair is pure evil.

[barbaraann]

Blair urges hearts and minds battle with al Qaeda
By Mark Trevelyan 1 hour, 30 minutes ago

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister
Tony Blair called on Saturday for a hearts and minds struggle against the "evil ideology" of al Qaeda as the death toll from last week's London suicide bombings rose to 55.
...
Blair called for a battle of ideas against what he called the fanatical beliefs and perversion of religion behind the London attacks and others around the world by the militant Islamist al Qaeda network.

He said the opponent was an "evil ideology" and a strain within Islam that was altogether removed from the "essential decency and truth" of that religion.

"It is not a clash of civilisations -- all civilized people, Muslim or other, feel revulsion at it. But it is a global struggle. It is a battle of ideas and hearts and minds, both within Islam and outside it," Blair said.
...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050716/ts_nm/security_britain_dc


"Global struggle"--they want it all and they won't stop until they control all the "hearts and minds" on the planet. If you do not agree with Bush and Blair, you are evil and perverted and you will be destroyed. You are either with them or you are a fanatic.

[CountAllVotes]

1. there are so many that are evil

the only consolation I have to say to you is that evil, just by the very nature of what it is does eventually destroy itself. Remember that when you get desperate.

:kick:

[barbaraann]

2. Thank you.

I need all the encouragement I can get in this dark time.

[CountAllVotes]

5. it is a very dark time

I just returned from jolly old England and holy shit. I was beaten up by a porter and abused. It was awful. Am I ashamed to be an American I was asked. It was all I could do to not cry my eyes out.

We are screwed and it is a dark place to be. However, things will change with time. For bad or for good we do not know, but evil it now lives in abundance all around the world sadly. :(

Hang in there and know you are not alone. :hug:

:dem: :kick:

[barbaraann]

7. Whoa. I am sorry to hear that.

Years ago, when I visited England Britons were almost in competition to be helpful and friendly to me.

They want to destroy all positive connections between people and we can't let them.

:hug:

[CountAllVotes]

11. well it is not that way any longer

I am a disabled person and require the use of a wheelchair in the airports. The wheelchairs weren't there and I was called a "lazy Yank" - something I do not appreciate one bit.

Furthermore, the porter I mention said to me, "You used to have a President that was a real crook and he had a brother too. Luckily they bumped them both off." How is that for sick? :puke:

I will never go to England again nor will I ever travel again. I learned my lesson the hard way I guess you'd say.

We are hated alright and it does not matter how you believe for they believe overseas that we all voted for and support *. I tried to explain otherwise but my words fell to deaf ears as all they could hear is my American accent.

So much for being a proud American. I am frankly very upset still and I do not know how to proceed. I feel like suing the airlines for discrimination at the very least. I have photographs of the bruises on my legs and arms.

Very sick and pathetic and no more U.S. $ from me for I no longer will support these countries as my family has done for many generations. They are fucking themselves in the ass is how I see it myself. If you don't want me, then leave me alone. Very very sad at best.

:(

[barbaraann]

13. And Britain is an ally!

Imagine how our enemies feel now. :-(

[CountAllVotes]

15. good point!

I should be glad I arrived home in one piece and just forget the whole damn thing perhaps. It is highly unlike me to let things like this "go" but I am so exhausted and so very sick right now (physically) that I do not have the energy to pursue this bastard.

If they do this to their "allies" you are right - what if it is another country that is not our ally? I suspect I would have been perhaps killed - ?

I don't know. I am just glad to be home in my own bed.

There were few Americans traveling. The way I see it, only those with guts and those that do not support * will travel. Maybe I am wrong? I do not know.

However, by Blair endorsing the great evil and being part of the entire plan to invade Iraq, the consequences we are now seeing are but one result of his policies. People are ANGRY. Can I blame them? NO I cannot. However, I do not endorse killing on any level whatsoever, nor war on any level whatsoever.

Peace, CountAllVotes

:kick:

[barbaraann]

17. I can't think of any foreign country I'd like to visit now, and

I used to love to travel.

[mattclearing]

67. Seems like you had a bad experience.

You could have had the same experience in Kansas or Manhattan. Don't go blaming a country for one asshole.

[DoYouEverWonder]

70. Definitely get pictures

as soon as possible and go to the hospital and get examined so that you have medical documentation for your injuries. Even if you change your mind and decide not to pursue this, you at least have good documentation.

Sorry to hear you were attacked, I guess England has their share of freepers too.

[smirkymonkey]

62. Thanks for that - I keep forgetting!

There is no way such deceit, arrogance, greed and hatefulness cannot eventually destroy it's host.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barbaraann]

4. It's Britain's policies and the War in Iraq that motivated the

bombers, not "radical Islam."

[CountAllVotes]

6. yep

We can say thank you Tony Blair - he kissed the ass of the great evil one and we know who this is. Now, he pays the price as we see. Evil is dangerous to mess with as Tony is now learning. It can also be highly contagious.


:dem: :kick:

[sandnsea]

8. What British policies?

Putting the war aside. What did those people do to deserve this?

[barbaraann]

10. Supporting George W. Bush and the Neocons.

n/t

[sandnsea]

21. See #20

There were attacks long before Bush and the Neocons came on the scene.

[barbaraann]

25. This is what I believe:

"We believe that these bombings are a consequence of Britain's aggressive foreign policy. One of G8 Alternatives key demands is that Britain withdraw troops from Iraq. We call on everyone to rally to continue to work for global peace and justice."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0507/S00161.htm

You may disagree with me, but many people in Great Britain don't.

[CJCRANE]

12. Two points

a) you can't put the war aside, that was the trigger. Just look at what the British intelligence service said before the war, they said that there would be an increased threat of terrorism to Britain because of it.

b) No-one said the people of London deserved it.

[sandnsea]

20. What about previous attacks then?

They've been going on forever, long before the Iraq war. Tony Blair was stating the obvious, it is a global ideological fight. We could pull out of Iraq tomorrow and the terrorist attacks wouldn't stop. It's bullshit when the Bushies use the terrorist attacks to justify Iraq and it's bullshit to use the war to justify terrorist attacks.

[barbaraann]

22. What attacks have been going on forever?

n/t

[sandnsea]

30. What attacks????

And I'm supposed to take you seriously??

[barbaraann]

31. Well, yes.

Are you talking about post-Balfour attacks or what?

Also, I am in now way justifying the attacks. Just because I am pointing out that someone is using them for evil purposes doesn't mean I am justifying them.

Willie Horton did bad things. The GOP used him to justify even worse things. That doesn't make what Willie Horton did good.

[CJCRANE]

68. The previous attacks were not in Britain

I live in Britain, our intelligence services warned that an attack on Iraq would bring blowback. I trust the intelligence services and I wish Blair would have listened to them (also about WMD - or lack of them).

[Capt_Nemo]

9. Considering that he has the blood of tens of thousands

of iraqi civilians in his hands, from a war of aggression for
which he is co-responsible...
well, yes, he is pure evil!

[paulk]

14. this has to be one of the most foolish posts I have ever seen

here at DU.

The mental gymnastics required to twist Blair's words into your world framework are ... stunning.

You seem to be saying that Al Queda, and the perversion of Islamic beliefs the group subscribes to, are just fine. That the fanaticism that would drive a person to strap on a bomb and blow up a train filled with innocent people is justifiable.

[barbaraann]

16. Geez, that is not what I am saying.

I am saying that Tony Blair is using this terrible event to turn Britons into rabid cannon fodder for the Bush/Blair/Neocon plan to achieve control and dominance of the entire world.

[Imajika]

18. Well, Blair is exactly correct...

"He said the opponent was an 'evil ideology' and a strain within Islam that was altogether removed from the 'essential decency and truth' of that religion."

I can't see what Blair is saying that is so objectionable to you. Radical Islam is an evil ideology. And just as Blair points out, it does not represent most Muslims.

A battle of ideas against fanatical beliefs and the perversion of Islam is exactly, precisely what is needed.

"'Global struggle'--they want it all and they won't stop until they control all the 'hearts and minds' on the planet. If you do not agree with Bush and Blair, you are evil and perverted and you will be destroyed. You are either with them or you are a fanatic."

Oh stop it. Your sounding foolish. Blair is speaking about defeating Islamists through ideas rather than just relying on military force. What Blair is saying is the best way of dealing with this problem. You do realize that if this "hearts and minds" method doesn't work, the West will default to a much more brutal and indescriminate manner of dealing with Muslim terrorism don't you? Even in Europe, there are increasing numbers of people who are coming to the conclusion that Islam is the problem and Muslims need to be removed from the continent altogether.

We'd better hope Blair's approach succeeds.

*Edited spelling errors

[barbaraann]

19. The problem is that Blair's (and Bush's) ideology is evil, too.

And his approach is NOT one of hearts and minds, but one of military and economic conquest. The people of Britain oppose the War in Iraq but Blair is not listening to the hearts and minds of his own people! I'm not going to stop it because I can see that what Bush and Blair want is not to defeat radical Islam but to dominate everything and to eliminate all oppostion.

What ideas is Blair talking about? I don't see Blair using any ideas to wage war, I just see him using the military and only the military. What Blair is saying is just psyops aimed at confusing people so they can't think straight. With Bush and Blair, you need to look at what they are doing, not what they are saying.

Bush talks about "loving your neighbor" and Blair talks about winning "hearts and minds." They are both using words to create cannon fodder.


edited for typos...

[Imajika]

23. Do you really know anything about radical Islam?

Blair is trying to confront radical Islam, which was long ago something that needed to be done, without stigmatizing all Muslims.

He is trying to make the point that the terrorist enemy is just the small percentage of Islamists, not the vast majority of Muslims.

Radical Islam was spreading at a dangerous rate and attacking Western and un-Islamic targets long before the Iraq war. 9-11 happened before the Iraq war.

You can't just blame everything on Blair or Bush. Lots of terrorist attacks occured under Clinton and previous American Presidents. You can't, in the twisted manner some do, excuse Islamic terrorism because you don't like Western economic and foriegn policy. Targeting innocent civilians in subways in London and office buildings in NY is never acceptable.

Perhaps you should look around at the horror being perpetrated by Islamic extremists in plenty of other places in the world. Muslim fanatics are not slaughtering and beheading Bhuddist monks and school teachers in Southern Thailand because of anything that Blair, Bush or Israel is doing. Islamic extremists aren't robbing women of human dignity and rights we all take for granted in towns and villages in Indonesia because of anything Blair, Bush or Israel is doing. Same situation in Africa.

Islamic fanaticism is a major problem, and this growing fundamentalist element represents a serious terrorist threat in Europe, Asia, Africa and elsewhere. Stop trying to excuse it by blaming the activity of murderous fanatics on Tony Blair. It's just a silly, foolish, ignorant thing to do.

[barbaraann]

26. I do know a few things about radical Islam.

And, actually, I consider Sharia law and many things other than suicide bombing (for example, female genital mutiliation) to be "radical Islam." However, I do not believe that we will be able to defeat "radical Islam" militarily, which is what Bush and Blair are PRETENDING that we can do.

I wish with all my heart that Blair would offer something other than war to fight "radical Islam." War is not going to defeat Sharia, for example.

This is radical Islam, not just the bombings:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Sharia/

[Stray Roots]

40. You should have made this point in the orginal

post. As it is it looks like you are saying Blair is evil just for saying the islamist radicals are evil. There is an editor.

[barbaraann]

43. Sorry, I guess I could have been more clear.

Unfortunately, it's too late to edit. :-(

I have a draft-age son and I get pretty emotional when I see them working people up into a warmongering frenzy because I know they want my son.

[Stray Roots]

46. I've hit alert on myself before and reposted things

when stuff like this happens.

[barbaraann]

47. Oh, I never thought about that.

Also I just assume sometimes that DUers will be with me on some underlying assumptions and that I don't need to spell them out.

[Deja Q]

24. Anyone can be evil. Evil also knows itself.

People either need to work together like civilized beings or drift apart, justifying your own unethical actions by point fingers, name labels, and provoking others into doing violent acts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Neo-colonialist tripe from the poodle.

He could have saved his breath by just quoting Kipling about "..picking up the white man's burden".

[barbaraann]

28. or perhaps recycled Crusades rhetoric.

n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Or, "axis of evil" from his boss.

Or, the dread "Evil Empire" from the previous idiot.

[barbaraann]

35. Or from Pope Urban II at the start of the First Crusade:

"despised and base race, which worships demons"

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. How about this from Martin Luther?

"What shall we Christians do now with this depraved and damned people of the Jews? ... I will give my faithful advice: First, that one should set fire to their synagogues. . . . Then that one should also break down and destroy their houses. . . . That one should drive them out the country." (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

[barbaraann]

51. I have to admit I didn't know Martin Luther had ideas like that.

How profoundly disappointing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Here's a few more.

"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham.'" (Martin Luther, in his book, "The Jews and Their Lies",1543)

"Women...have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children." (Martin Luther)

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape of a woman." (Martin Luther)

Of course, we all know, that it's only the "Islamist Terrorists" that hate Jews and subjugate women.

[barbaraann]

57. Yikes! Super Yikes!

Hold off on posting any more till I digest those quotes....:o

[Straight Shooter]

29. Is Karen Hughes writing Blair's speeches now, too? eom

[barbaraann]

32. Also, he doesn't say anything about the Wahabi Sect or Saudi Arabia.

Wonder why?

[Alien8ed]

34. Once Upon a Time...

A whole lot of politicians discovered that they suddenly needed a new enemy.

But they had a very hard time, trying to find one that was big enough.

However, it would appear that they now have located the beast which they thought that they sought.

Wouldn't it be amusing if it turned out that they never had needed a new one?

[barbaraann]

36. Welcome to DU and thanks for your contribution.

Our reaction to the end of the Cold War was joy.
Their reaction was alarm.

[Alien8ed]

44. Thanks for the Thanks...

.... and, they really had far less to worry about on that score than they alarmed themselves into imagining.

Interestingly, it is often the case that very long wars which pretty much involve the whole planet don't just dry up and blow away simply because some fool's cow-patch in Texas looks okay, and he fails to have sense enough to notice that when it looks like nothing has changed it usually means that n-o-t-h-i-n-g h-a-s c-h-a-n-g-e-d.

Although, having just realized that we're looking at not one, but two seven-letter words, there, and recalling "The Pet Goat" is our standard for reading comprehension, I suddenly realize that my expectations are probably way too high.

(Oh, Lord. I suddenly understand why Dubya became a drunk. He knew that, too. And it struck him in just the same way that it just hit me. Excuse me, but I must dash off, now. I have a sudden yen to plunder a brewery.)

[barbaraann]

48. He did have some good reasons to become a drunk, didn't he?

n/t

[Zorbuddha]

38. The monster is always the same, only the mask changes.

Pogo knows.

[barbaraann]

41. My dad was a soldier and he used to repeat that Pogo quote.

hmmmmm

[Zorbuddha]

45. I salute your dad.

And his service to his country.

He rocks.

[barbaraann]

49. Thank you.

His best quality was that he was a Yellow Dog Democrat.

[Stray Roots]

37. Tony is a bad guy for being a Bush poodle

not this statement? He is clearly distiquishing terrorists from muslims and deflating the clash of civilizations meme.

[barbaraann]

39. His support of Bush's military adventures is part of the cause of

these bombings and he is not talking about that.

And what about Sharia law? Do you not agree that it is radical Islam also?

[Stray Roots]

50. You could have said that in the orginal post

Every place Sharia has been implemented, it seems to result in women getting stoned. So I am not jazzed about it.

[barbaraann]

52. I promise to be sure my next post completely conveys my thoughts.

However, I don't see how anyone could see a noble motive in anything Blair says at this point. If he said ice cream was tasty I would start to wonder about it.

[1932]

53. Uhm, this is the opposite of US conservatives, who want a battle of guns

and bombs, and not ideas.

Blair isn't saying that he's taking the battle overseas. In fact, he's saying this in response to an attack on british soil by British citizens, and he's saying the solution is to win with ideas not force.

[barbaraann]

54. But he's sending troops to war!

He's ignoring the people of Britain who don't want war! His words are just propaganda and he's not offering any ideas for winning a battle of hearts and minds.

[1932]

56. They turned over political control of Basra to Iraqis within a week of...

...arriving; he has won an election since doing all this; I'd love to hear the arguments about Afghanistan being a war of imperialism; and the Labor government has done the opposite of what the Imperial Tories did so far as giving a shit about seeing war criminals from Chile to Yugoslavia stand trial for their crimes and not using Africa as a get-rich-quick scheme for Europeans.

I admit that going into Iraq with the US looks on the surfact to be imperialism, but I think if you really look at what Labour is doing, you see a more complicated picture that stands a good chance of moving society forward to a time when it becomes harder for imperialism (especially American) to survive.

[barbaraann]

58. I don't think Bush could have invaded Iraq without Blair.

He was and is essential to the BFEE agenda, IMHO.

[1932]

59. Then you don't remember the Rumsfeld press conference when he seemed

visibly shocked that the UK was going to participate.

And, you can see why it was a problem: since the US was pissed that Blair turned political control of Basra over to Iraqis, at least you can assume that they wish the UK hadn't participated, post facto.

[barbaraann]

61. But isn't Basra now under radical Islamic control?

n/t

[1932]

63. No. BTW, read God's Politics. Wallis thinks Blair's not evil at all.

Also, do you have a problem with Basra being governed by Iraqis?

Do you think it should be governed by tyranical Baathists or by Americans, but not by the people who live there?

[barbaraann]

64. I do not think anyone should be subjected to Sharia.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/In-sharia-south-power-flows-from-edicts-of-religious-leaders/2005/02/14/1108229934505.html?oneclick=true

[1932]

72. ...which is an attitude that motivates imperialism.

Who are you to tell people what their legal system should be?

If the US invaded Iraq to make it into a liberterian nirvana, would that please you?

If the UK participated in order to help the country form a government of its choice once they helped remove a fascist murderer from power, wouldn't you think that was at least making the best of a bad situation?

[barbaraann]

74. I'm a person who believes in Human Rights.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

And I do not believe for a second that the UK participated in invading Iraq to remove a fascist murderer from power.

[1932]

77. And I don't believe in a black or white/with us or against us/good or evil

world.

I think you have to consider a lot of different factors.

And when you do, you come to the conclusion that Blair is not evil, and that you can be with the US (by invading) while subverting the US's less noble interests (by turning political control to Iraqis).

Do you really think it was a terrible thing that the Baathists were removed from power and Basra is now governed by the people of Basra?

[barbaraann]

78. Basra is apparently now governed by the fundamentalist males of

the area, not by "the people."

[1932]

80. Apparently the gov't in Basra looks after the people in Basra:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1634704&mesg_id=1634728

[Catrina]

65. Have you read the DSM?

Tony Blair not only lied to help Bush lies, he gave credibility to what the Bush administration was doing. Why did he go to so much trouble to help this administration? Did he really think that would 'win hearts and minds'?

I watched him argue and lie (and since he is way smarter than Bush, he was way better at silencing his detractors) in the run up to the war and wondered what happened to him because I had had a far higher opinion of him, and was counting on him to try to disuade these neo-cons from their disastrous plans to attack every country in the ME.

He is not exactly the one to talk now about 'winning hearts and minds'. He spent his political capitol when he aligned himself with Bush. That he may regret it, is unfortunate. Especially for all the dead, maimed and tortured who cannot be simply swept under the rug.

To win hearts and minds, we need a different spokesperson. I do not trust a word Tony Blair says. Lie to me once, shame on you, but try it again, and if I fall for it, shame on me!

And btw, I may be wrong about this, but I don't believe he won an election ~ I don't believe he was up for election. His party was, and they lost seats because of him. The party survived and by default, so did he, but the British people sent a message ~ had they had a better choice Labour would have lost, as would he. Had he been up for election alone, I believe he would have lost. If I'm wrong, someone can correct me.

[barbaraann]

66. He did win reelection in his own district, but his leadership

caused his party to lose 60 or so seats. And it amazes me that his party doesn't have anyone better to lead it. From what I can tell, the only reason Labour still has control is that the people know the Tories are worse. sad...

[1932]

73. Did you read the DSM?

Notice that the British concern was that the US had not planned for a situation where, upon invasion, SH used his WMD.

IOW, they apparently were convinced there were WMD, which is what I presume you think Blair lied about.

Blair won his own election, and his party won, and I believe they have a bigger majority that Republicans have in the House and Senate, which some people consider significant.

[lockdown]

71. "not using Africa as a get-rich-quick scheme for Europeans"

Pff, don't believe everything Bob Geldof tells you, Blair is a neoliberal corporate whore.

Africa Needs Justice Not Charity
http://www.worldpress.org/Africa/2107.cfm

Going after a couple of deposed war criminals doesn't amount to an ethical foreign policy, not when, for example, Labour continue to underwrite and encourage arms sales to repressive regimes and dictators.

Addicted to arms
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/1939250.stm

Tony Blair absolutely disgusts me. I didn't think it was possible to hold anyone in more contempt, but his comments since the bombings have managed that. "Them and us" rhetoric, sanctimoniously decrying the "pure evil" that leads them to "bomb innocent civilians"(!), lecturing the Muslim community on their responsibility to root out extremists... what about your fucking responsibility for helping foment that extremism you lying piece of shit! They haven't been stupid enough to use the bombings to justify invading Iraq, but Labour claims that the bombings had nothing to do with Iraq will go down almost as badly. :grr:

[Hubert Flottz]

60. If Tony would ever get in a hearts and minds battle with the GOP

Tony'd have a hard time winning because when he started trying to win their hearts he couldn't win, because everybody in the world, but Tony, knows that GOPers don't have hearts! If he had all the GOPers brains in one place and could roll them in a ball and then stick that ball of GOPer brains, on the edge of a razor blade. It would look like a BB rolling down a four lane highway.

[mr blur]

69. I fear you've completely missed the point of Blair's remarks.

'He said the opponent was an "evil ideology" and a strain within Islam that was altogether removed from the "essential decency and truth" of that religion.

"It is not a clash of civilisations -- all civilized people, Muslim or other, feel revulsion at it. But it is a global struggle. It is a battle of ideas and hearts and minds, both within Islam and outside it," Blair said.'

Hmm... definite plan for world domination shown in those remarks.
If you were talking about Bush, maybe so... but you know there's no way he could ever articulate those ideas in a way anyone could understand.

Still, rant on if it makes you feel better.

[KoKo]

75. OMG! thank you for this post. I heard his Speach and it was BUSH CLONE!

I was horrified. I couldn't believe he would sound just like Bush...it depressed me the whole day...thinking WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS GUY! What did Bush promise him? What is he thinking?

And...to make it worse DU'ers might not know but Cheri Blair was with Laura Bush in Africa on that great trip with the two daughters (working for aids...sheesh..give me a break.)

I was going to post on DU the AP and Reuters stories and photo's of Laura and Cheri Blair in Africa ...but figured no one would be interested. Maybe Cheri just flew in to help Laura place the wreath on the Memorial to those who died in the African Massacre...but I think they are FRIENDS...just like Bush and Blair are "joined at the hip!"

Blair's speech was a page out of the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) and it was so dreadful. I worry that we are heading into WWIII if the Brits don't wake up and the rest of the world doesn't see what's going on.

It's :scared:

[paulk]

76. he's saying the opposite of Bush

?????????????

Are we reading the same thing? Blair is saying that military force is NOT the way to deal with radical Islam - that's the opposite of the PNAC agenda!

Trash on Blair all you like for his support of Bush's Iraq adventure -but this statement of his here is a good one.

[Jack_Dawson]

79. Blair is intelligent and articulate

and I fear you missed the point of his remarks... :shrug: