I am feeling good about where Treason-gate is headed

[Quixote1818]

All this stuff about who told who and who leaked to who will be small potato's in the end. According to O'Donnell one of the Judges has indicated that this seems to be a Plot against Wilson. Wilson was a whistle blower and the Administration was trying to prevent his information from being taken seriously and attacked him and outed his wife. We have to keep an eye on the big picture here. This is about a huge conspiracy by many people in the administration to damage someone and his wife and the CIA and our country's National Security ended up being a casualty of their PLOT which was founded on BAD intent!!!!


THIS IS HUGE!!! Lets just hope Fitzgerald can figure out the puzzle and bring everyone down!

[Danieljay]

1. I've been disappointed over and over again..

I'm not getting my hopes up but I do hope you are right. I get the feeling he'll walk. Not to rain on your parade...

[mirandapriestly]

14. Me too.

After the DSM let down, I just don't have any confidence in what's left of the "system". They're untouchable and Rove looks like he is smirking in every photo I see of him.

[Quixote1818]

17. The DSM are different, they were a legal long shot.

They have actually damaged the administrations credibility but they were a long shot when it came to legal action. It would be extremely difficult to do anything legal with the DSM.

This case is totaly different.

[Straight Shooter]

24. Rove isn't smirking, actually. He's trying to change his public image.

Remember that all photos before this ongoing scandal showed Rove as serious, studious, the wise man who counsels bush.* He looked like he wasn't a very nice guy, and that's the image he wanted to portray.

All of a sudden, he's in deep sh*t. So he does what he's always done: He changes the image so the people see what he wants them to see.

*edit: With the notable exception where he sat in front of the AF-1 tire, which, frankly, was incredibly weird and unhinged.

[Skittles]

36. oh I think he will walk but dammit DAMIAGE IS BEING DONE

FINALLY they are having to pay for their g.d. power games

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Same here

I'm the same way. There has been so much damning information out there and nothing has got them before. Hopefully this time is different since there is a judge on the side of justice. Hopefully and praying for the best and truthful outcome. Last November shortly before the election I had a feeling something HUGE will bring down Bush and I think this is it.

[Longhorn79]

2. Nothing's going to happen

I don't know why you have such a good feeling about it. As soon as the next six-year-old girl gets kidnapped from a suburban neighborhood, it'll be off the news. Karl who?

[Mojambo]

5. As has been pointed out before

What the public thinks of this investigation really doesn't matter anymore.

We're beyond that part.

[Quixote1818]

8. Exactly Right!

They almost would have to start killing people at this point. The cats out of the bag. I think Karl got over confidant and too cocky. He had been able to get away with being crooked for so long he began to feel invincible. Then he ran into the CIA! You don't FUCK with the CIA!!! No one fucks with the CIA!

[Longhorn79]

10. "..."

"You don't FUCK with the CIA!!! No one fucks with the CIA! "

Okay...unless you are a fictional weapon of mass destruction

[Quixote1818]

15. But what you missed is that many in the CIA were on to what was going

on. The administration was cherry picking info on WMD's just as we saw with the yellowcake in Niger. The CIA through Wilson found the truth but the Administration didn't like what they found.

[Longhorn79]

9. It had better be about what the public thinks

Otherwise the bastard will stay put. You think you can get the guy out on some sort of legal charge? I've seen everything that's out there, and if you do, I'll have some of what you're smoking.

[Quixote1818]

11. Karl Rove is just a small part of this.

This is all just conjecture at this point but when a Judge on the Grand Jury says that this seems to be a Plot against Wilson then you know they are on to what was going on and they are turning over every stone to nail these ass holes.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. I think so too

I think Fitzgerald is going after something bigger. Call it a gut feeling. I think if he was going after just Karl Rove maybe he would've gotten this earlier in 2003. I don't know, but he seems to be taking his time and keeping his information closed tight and not talking to anybody. I think Karl Rove is just the beginning and this case will be very interesting and lots of twist's and turns. Popcorn and soda? :popcorn:

[Mojambo]

12. Clearly we have seen different reports

And it doesn't really matter to me whether Karl Rove gets off. There is a major criminal conspiracy shaping up here. Those tend to bring down administrations. Karl Rove is small potatoes.

Fitzgerald has something big.

[Longhorn79]

19. Color me pessimistic

but I honestly don't think this could even come close to bringing down the administration (unless there is a whole uncovered element). Look at what it has taken in the past and then look at this. Bill left with a 50%+ approval rating after committing a felony on tape, of course this won't bring down Bush.

If Fitzgerals has something big as you say, I'm all ears.

[Mojambo]

22. It's not just one guy and a lie like Clinton

This is a criminal conspiracy with national security implications.

It's simply not fair to compare the scandals of the Clinton administration with this one. They're not close.

Your pessimism isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you shouldn't downplay the seriousness of this scandal based on an incomplete reading of the situation.

There's a lot going on here and we don't know a fraction of it.

[lancdem]

13. This is the first time this WH

has been investigated by a special counsel. That's the difference. Indictments would be a disaster for this administration - bank on it.

[Quixote1818]

16. Even if no one is convicted it would still devastate the Administration

just like with Clinton. All we need is indictments to ruin Bush's legacy.

[txindy]

3. Fitzgerald has a history of thorough puzzle-solving

I'm with you, this is on its way to something substantial.

[Quixote1818]

41. Puzzle-solving and a skill for explaining complex situations to a jury's.

Their is nothing more valuable in THIS country than a lawyer who can explain a complex situation to a jury.

[txindy]

42. I'm hoping these past two years have been very fruitful

That, before all of this hit the media, Fitzgerald and his team have been able to ferret out documents that might have been hidden or destroyed if certain people had imagined a repub-appointed SP would even look for them.

[Mojambo]

4. As am I

This is the first time in 5 years, the FIRST time, that I've really felt that they didn't have control of the situation.

Will it pan out in the long run? Perhaps not, but I do feel that this one is actually going to play out.

The playing field feels even, for the first time in a LONG time.

[writes2000]

7. You're right. They are not in control right now. You can feel it.

They are freaking out, screaming, leaking all sorts of information desperate to get the advantage again.

[Booster]

34. You're right, they are out of control, and I believe that even if they

do somehow get through this, the Republican party will not be voted into any office for the next 6 to 8 years. More than 50% of the American public has had it with this group, and if we can get the voting machines out, they will have a problem for a very long time.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. I agree

Just look at their talking points and all they're doing.

[wookie294]

6. I'm excited too

We found out today that it's illegal for White House officials to confirm to reporters the name of undercover CIA operatives. At a minimum, Rove will be prosecuted for saying to Novak, "I heard that, too."

[Radical Radish]

25. Wow, Thats exciting!

Can you shed some more light on this. I have been pretty depressed about this til now. Maybe there is light at the end of the bush tunnel of darkness.

[wookie294]

28. Okay

The New York Times reported this....

After hearing Mr. Novak's account ... Mr. Rove told the columnist: "I heard that, too."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/politics/15rove.html?hp&ex=1121486400&en=bac819afc84e3590&ei=5094&partner=homepage

So, Rove "heard that too," meaning he had heard prior to talking to Novak that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent. So, when Rove said, "I heard that too," he confirmed to Novak that Wilson's wife is a CIA agent.

We learned today from Rep. Henry Waxman (my congressman!) that a presidential executive order prohibits White House officials from "confirming" to reporters the identity of undercover operatives. Here's how a “briefing booklet” describes what is required of White House officials who have knowledge of secret information:

Before … confirming the accuracy of what appears in the public source, the signer of the SF 312 must confirm through an authorized official that the information has, in fact, been declassified. If it has not, … confirmation of its accuracy is also an unauthorized disclosure.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4112057

In this case, when Rove spoke to Novak, Rove violated his oath of office by providing Novak with "confirmation of its accuracy" -- the accuracy of Wilson's wife being a CIA agent. Remember, Rove said to Novak, "I heard that too." That was illegal. He will be prosecuted.

[newyawker99]

44. Hi Radical Radish!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Singular73]

18. Damnit people, listen up

I said from the beginning that DSM wasn't going anywhere.

And I've said from the beginning that this is huge.

Why?

THERE IS A PROSECUTOR INVOLVED.

HE HAS THE POWER TO INDICT.

And THATS what prosecutors do. Anything else is a failure. Its his JOB.

You think Miller is sitting in prison for some small potatoes he-said she-said?

For Gods sakes people, get some political acumen.

[Quixote1818]

20. I made the same point above. Legal action on the DSM was a long shot

at best.

[lancdem]

21. Amen

[Tommymac]

23. Most here do have political acumen...

it may just not be the same color acumen. ;)

I am excited! This is huge. Your post says it all...this is different. A prosecutor is involved...this will not be settled in the Court of Politics or Public Opinion...it wil be determined in a Court of Law.

WE THE PEOPLE are going to get Our Constitution Back!!!! :woohoo:

[txindy]

43. I believe the DSM will eventually be tied in to this mess

But, you're right, the battle with the DSM was waged in the media and in the blogosphere. This Plame battle has teeth. And a prison, too. :evilgrin:

[autorank]

26. Bush Approval: 42% . You're damn right this has legs!

The public is fully awake, much more so than the media. CM (corporate media) will be led into fierce coverage by the public and pushed by "management", their corporate masters.

Why? Because the media is a tool of their corporate entities. To maintain the franchise, CM must have credibility with the people. On those few occasions where the truth is son strong that everyone knows even if CM doesn't report, CM must respond. Besides, Bush is over the top and his people are incompetent. Time to say bye-bye!

Great Election Fraud Tool

[KharmaTrain]

27. O'Donnell's Been 100% On The Money - Stay On The Ball

That interview with Lou Doobs was very damning, and I was surprised so few here picked up on it.

Larry told Doobs he knew Rove was the leaker for months and that he disclosed Rove's name the moment Time was handing over the documents where Cooper fingers Rove to Fitzgerald.

Then he mentions the "Plot on Wilson". That made me smile. The other day I said if we see a conspiracy case develop here, this could be real big. I thought it would just be outting Plame, but this intimates that the entire Wilson smear is being looked at...and that really widens the net. It might not mean more indictments, but there's sure gonna be a lot more people dragged into this before it's over.

I'll say it again...Fitzgerald's come from cracking corrupt Illinois Repugnicans...it took him 5 years, but the takedown was total. Let's hope, just by bringing out the truth, he does the same again.

Cheers...

[xray s]

29. wonder if they will link the RNC into the smear campaign

that net would catch a lot of fish.

these guys aren't Supermen...and sometimes are dumb as a box of hammers, as the Duke-Stir has recently reminded us.

somewhere in BushCo is an idiot that will ultimately break this wide open.

[KharmaTrain]

31. "Plot On Wilson"

I haven't had the chance to read the judge's ruling. Maybe someone here has or knows a thread or link, but if that word is in part of the justification the judges gave for agreeing to jail Miller, this not could, but WILL break wide open.

The hubris of this regime is finally catching up with it. They wouldn't be lying as badly and spinning as fast if they didn't know they had to kill this story and fast. Once this gets out of their control, the entire deck of cards will fall with it.

I've joked using the Clennis "model"...it wasn't the blowjob, it's the lie that was his problem...same thing happened here, unfortunately we're the ones who are getting screwed either way.

[Mojambo]

30. I loved your take. Right on. n/t

[Quixote1818]

32. Not to mention the Wilson smear continues with the RNC talking points

The Judges in the case HAVE to be hearing Rush, Hannity the RNC and all the bastards lying through their teeth on National TV attacking Wilson. These Judges already suspect this is a smear against Wilson and now they are watching it all over again.

Just as Randi Rhodes said "They don't have any other way to fight back and their only remaining option is to attack Wilson's character". Thats what got them into the mess in the first place and the Judges know it! They are digging their hole deeper and deeper.

[KharmaTrain]

33. Amen

If they think they can create "jury nullification" this way, do they have another think coming.

The complete meltdown and viscious attacks that have come out had to have an impact on not only the judge but the grand jurors as well as Fitzgerald. You know he's about to become Public Enemy #1 on the right any day now. Here's wishing him the strength to persevere...he's going to need it.

This is like shining the light on rats. First they freeze, then they scurry for their holes. They're trapped and they're gnawing their own legs off.

It couldn't happen to a nicer group of wasted cells. I think we'll look back on this past week and define it as a major turning point in the road back to sanity.

Cheers...

[wiggs]

35. Another reason to feel good: remember Georgie hired a lawyer re Plame.

I think it's reasonable to believe this is going nowhere based on recent history....but I'm choosing optimism and hope that there are enough brave, honest individuals out there to tip the scales.

[Stinky The Clown]

40. Yup ... huge ... even if it falls from the media for now, we win.

Consider:

No leaks from the prosecutor's office. All you hear are leaks or blurbs from both sides of the **political** spectrum, but not much from the prosecutor.

Why?

The prosecutor has a case and he's doing his job like a machine. Almost everything you hear is bullshit. Bullshit from the left and bullshit from the right.

The only thing that matters is what Fitzgerald comes up with.

If this stays in the news (some here speculate it will soon dry up and blow away) the RW will keep spinning. When (not if) the indictment(s) comes, their bullshit will be seen for what it was ... pure spin and bullshit.

If this drys up and blows away, then no more spin. And when the indictment(s) finally comes, in the absence of spin, it will be like a nuclear bomb.

So ... on or off the news ... we win.

Funny thing about spin, too. It only matters in the court of public opinion (so far, the spin's losing). But this case(s) will be tried in a court of law. A real no spin zone.

Nope ... I think this will stick. And I think we'll win in the end.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

45. The WH went after Wilson bigtime...

... now will they try and get rid of Fitzgerald now? Like Nixon did to his prosecutor?

[kentuck]

46. I don't feel "good"... I would feel relieved...

knowing our republic was saved by our third branch of government... When there is no justice, there is no nation.