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I understand the stiff upper lip bit, but shouldn't we fear the future?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 11:57 PM
Original message
I understand the stiff upper lip bit, but shouldn't we fear the future?
I understand the British showing the culprits of the latest bomb attack a tough face. We want to catch those responsible, we want to ward off anyone who might feel emboldened by the (success?) of this bomber, and we need to keep each other calm, keep to our schedules, keep from letting the terrorists disrupt our 'normal' lives.

But shouldn't we be afraid? I welcome Blair's talk of addressing the root causes of this type of terror. His reaction, however has been a mix of Bush-like bravado, and that British stoicism that has characterized past generations of Britons in the face of terror. But, I also sensed more than a twinge of despair from the prime minister. And, at least, a hint of separation from the unyielding bluster of our administration's 'war on terror' in his mention of the underlying conditions that have brought us to this point of enmity with so many who have made it their ambition to kill Americans and our agents, often sacrificing their own lives to do so.

Britons should be afraid. A good deal of the underlying cause of this continuing terror is fueled by our own president's aggression, and his threats of expanding his 'war' to other Arab states. 'Bring it on' is the official Bush battle cry. Blair has echoed that cry as he stands shoulder to shoulder with Bush in his arrogance. But, Blair and his country folk are smack in the way of wave of resentment that Bush has stirred up with his invasion and occupation of two Muslim dominated countries, as are other smaller nations who lined up behind these Bush and Blair's misadventure in Iraq. And Bush is still swaggering.

I think the denial of fear plays into that myth of invincibility that was the hallmark of the United States foreign policy- post-cold-war- after the fall of the Soviet Union. But, we are vulnerable to future attack. There is no one country, no other country, that we could destroy and dominate (if we had the troops) that would result in a halt to future terrorist attacks here or elsewhere. We need these countries to cooperate in helping to root out the threatening factions and help bring those responsible for the terror to justice. But, we have/are creating more enemies than allies.

I think our denial of fear will only serve to allow Bush and Blair to continue their manufactured war in Iraq and lump all of the subsequent resistance in their 'war on terror' basket. To date, that terror war has been a cover for whatever military aggression that Bush has directed. It's been used as a cover for all of the violations of human rights of those we have imprisoned in Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, and here at home. There is are lifetimes, generations of resentment that will only fester and erupt behind Bush's arrogance, our arrogance.

I fear. I am afraid that Bush has yoked us to decades of conflict, decades of reprisals from the survivors of our indiscriminate bombings and our destruction of Arab homelands. I'm afraid that our leaders haven't had enough of their swaggering and blustering. That's all Bush has. And we're not really the bad asses that they make us out to be. We can get the shit kicked out of us, again. We are still losing soldiers. Britain was just attacked, and . . . we will never end the cycle of violence with more violence alone.

Better we did not war. Lots of hate for us out there. Lots more to come our way.



"How say you, war or not?
Not war, if possible, O king," I said,"lest from the abuse of war,
The desecrated shrine, the trampled year,
The smoldering homestead, and the household flower
Torn from the lintel-all the common wrong-
And smoke go up thro' which I loom to her
Three times a monster: now she lightens scorn
At him that mars her plan, but then would hate
(And every voice she talk'd with ratify it,
And every face she look'd on justify it)
The general foe. More soluable is this knot,
By gentleness than war. I want her love.
What were I nigher this altho' we dash'd
Your cities into shards and catapults,
She would not love;- or brought her chain'd, a slave,
The lifting of whose eyelash is my lord,
Not ever would she love; but brooding turn
The book of scorn, till all my fitting chance
Were caught within the record of her wrongs,
And crush'd to death: and rather, Sire, than this
I would the old God of war himself were dead,
Forgotten, rustling on his iron hills,
Rotting on some wild shore with ribs of wreck,
Or like an old-world mammoth bulk'd in ice, Not to be molten out."

Excerpt from, "The Princess: A Medley" by, Alfred Tennyson



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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. "London Can Take It"
Edited on Tue Jul-12-05 12:05 AM by rwenos
"One day after luncheon the Chancellor of the Exchequer came to see me on business at No. 10, and we heard a very heavy explosion take place across the river in South London. I took him to see what had happened. The bomb had fallen in Peckham. It was a very big one -- probably a land mine. It had completely destroyed or gutted 20-30 small three-storey houses and cleared a considerable open space. Already a pathetic little Union Jack had been stuck up amid the ruins.
. . . .
"There was an enormous crater, perhaps 40 yards across and 20 feet deep. Cocked up at an angle on the very edge was an Anderson shelter, and we were greted at its twisted doorway by a man, his wife and 3 children, quite unharmed. The could give no account of their experiences. When we got back into the car a harsher mood swept over this haggard crowd. "Give it 'em back," they cried, and "Let them have it too." I underook forthwith to see that their wishes were carried out; and this promise was certainly kept. The debt was repaid tenfold, twenty fold, in the frightful bombardment of German cities. Certainly the enemy got it all back in good measure, pressed down and running over."

--Winston Churchill, "Their Finest Hour."

The Brits will get 'em. You watch!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Who's
'em?

Who's gonna do this gettin'? Our nation was attacked and we still haven't closed in on the perps. And, look at our response. More innocents killed than in the initial attack, more enemies encouraged to act against us. The orchestrators and apologists for this philosophy are still directing our nation's military, aggravating the sore . . . inviting more reprisals.

Just a little bit beyond stoicism is complacency, or worse, unwillingness to change course.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. 'Em is the Terrorists
In the words of von Clausewitz: "War is the continuation of politics by other means."

Yes, Georgie Boy has led stupidly. But let's not get lost in the fog. The terrorists are bad guys, and we need to wax them. But a skeleton occupying force in Iraq ain't the way to do it.

Imagine a family member being killed on 9-11. God help me, I would want to slit some throats if I had lost a loved one that way.

To say that warring against terrorists is all bad -- is a glittering generality. They're bad guys, and we need to get after 'em.

Just maybe with a bit more subtlety than Georgie and Friends.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. More war? Flesh that out
More troops? More killing?

More enemies created. More reprisals.

Perpetual war. Mission accomplished.

We need to catch the terrorists, but I believe the evidence is that we are creating more enemies than we are defeating with our war.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. You Overstate My Point
I'm not contending for endless war. I make two points:

1. We should not kid ourselves. The terrorists are insanely hateful, murderous extremists. Our society must protect itself from them as best we can.

2. There's a better way than the dinosaur flailing its tail technique used by the Bush Administration. Better intelligence, better human resources, Special Forces, counterinsurgency. Defending ourselves with our brains instead of our penises.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Is that anywhere in sight?
The Phallic leadership that helped dig this hole is still in place in both countries. What do you think their response will be?

I think that Churchill might have been more prudent in his response . . . but, that was Churchill.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Right on the Beam, Mate
Churchills don't grow on trees, of course. And they're in particularly short supply in the current context, don't you find?!

I can always hope for a more sophisticated approach, can't I?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. There's always hope
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Shit happens
You deal with it.

Running around being afraid all the time solves nothing.



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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. We don't have to be hysterical in our fear
It can motivate us to act responsibly. I'm afraid that stoicism won't allow us to change course, and may encourage our leaders to deepen our military involvement in Iraq and elsewhere. We should express and acknowledge our fears. Lives are being lost, and we are creating more enemies with our aggression.

And, the same actors who brought to this point are still directing the response . . .
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. nite
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