There is no "win" in Iraq.

[UdoKier]

Hello! Foreign policy is not a freaking football game.

We cannot win, because there is no "game" on any kind of playing field. This is much more analogous to a street crime.

We mugged Iraq, stole its stuff, and are kicking its body every time it flinches.

We cannot win. We can, however, get the hell out of and hopefully mend our ways before getting caught by the authorities for doing it again.

[KharmaTrain]

1. Depends on who the "we" are...

If you own stock in Haliburton, Defense Contractors and oil companies, you've been winning. If you make you name and your power from exploiting people's fears and then seperating them from their reason and cash, you've been winning.

The real shame here is how few know little about that part of the world...and even less now. While our news talking heads are "experts" on Iraq, they offer little insight into WHY an "insurgent" would fight against us other than to "kill us" (duh). How about that we're an occupying army in THEIR country; plundering their resources and trampling on their sovereignty and dignity.

I constantly deal with wingnuts who bleat the corporate media's "war on terror" crap...then I turn the question around on them and ask them if THIS country was invaded how they would react. Say China (that's a great one to use) were to invade and decide they knew what was right for us...would you submit? Or would you take up arms or be subservient to your conquerors? When the Saddam Hussein name comes up...it always does...I ask if that person like Clinton. Almost always the answer is no. I then ask that even if HILLARY Clinton were President and this country were invaded, would you fight or be a collaborator. This causes massive head implosion.

As others say, but don't really get the grasp yet...since we're so intrenched there, just getting up and leaving (short of a full military retreat) is not going to happen. And such a short-sighted view opens Democrats to that "traitor" label. It's time we play this smart...just like with the SSI debate. This wasn't our war to get into...the Repugnicans got us into it (not just Bunnypants), now they have to answer on how we get out. When I'm asked...I say, "hey, if I say what I think, I'm not helping the "war" effort" (:sarcsasm:).

Let's make them tell us how this thing ends. Let's not give them the out of saying they were forced. This is their mess, it may have to get messier, but it's time Democrats stopped trying to ride to the rescue here. Our job will be the aftermath...and to pick up what's left. Too much damage has already been done.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. there are no winners in

war really- only long intermissions.

But to continue is in my opinion like keeping Terri Schaivo on life support- the energy, time, and efforts spent 'wishing' it would turn out 'ok' were just (again in my belief) waisted. And all the while people who could have been helped by those same extrodinary means died.

No, i don't want any more soldiers to die in Iraq- outs or thiers- does that make those who've died any less of a loss? would it matter if we 'won'? what would 'winning' be? the only way to 'win in Iraq' would be to kill every man woman and child, and then leave- but that would not stop those who watched all this from wanting to 'avenge' the actions.

War never ends.

lets cut the losses, and LEARN something for a change.- Lets honor those who died, by not adding to thier numbers.

Lets devote our money, time and energy to LIFE GIVING not life destroying pursuits- Will we be ambushed, and 'taken over by" China, or Russia, or Muslums???? maybe- but wars don't happen just because people get a hair across thier ass.... they start because people feel there is no way to get what they NEED without force- and follow charasmitic leaders, or leaders who teach fear and hatred.

i'm sick do death of it all.....