It is ABSOLUTELY appropriate to make Nazi comparisons

[nonconformist]

Anyone who says it isn't either hasn't been paying enough attention or needs to study up on history.

The biggest mistake mankind can make is to dehumanize the ideology and actions of Hitler's Third Reich - to write them all off as rare, unique demonic monster archetypes. Doing so ignores the fact that they were indeed fully functioning human beings. It's vital to remember that, because without it we are unable to recognize those traits when they appear elsewhere... maybe in the early stages or on lesser levels, but with the same types of warped ideology guiding them.

Never forget that a great deal of the atrocities performed by the Third Reich were only discovered AFTER WWII ended. When most of us learned about how Hitler rose to power we wondered how the German people (and the people of the world) didn't see the writing on the wall that was so clear in hindsight. Hindsight may be 20/20, but ignoring history will always be at our own peril.

Hitler wrote about his plans in advance in Mein Kempf. Hitler's regime used patriotism and fear of terrorism coupled with religious rhetoric to convince the masses to quietly go along with their plans. The Germans never questioned the official line on the Reichstag Fire, even though it made little sense. They never questioned why Poland would be so stupid as to invade Germany, even though it made little sense. They never questioned why their rights were being "temporarily" suspended through the Enabling Act because it was necessary to fight the terrorists, even though it made little sense.

The neocons in power wrote about their plans in advance with The Project for a New American Century. The Bush administration uses patriotism and fear of terrorism coupled with religious rhetoric to convince the masses to quietly go along with their plans. The Americans never questioned the official line on the 9/11 attacks, even though it made little sense. They never questioned why Iraq would be so stupid as to want to attack the U.S., even though it made little sense. They never questioned why their rights were being "temporarily" suspended through the Patriot Act because it was necessary to fight the terrorists, even though it made little sense.

"We must never forget that everything Hitler did was legal." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[centristo]

1. good points and a good post

However, as a Jew, I have to caution people from wildly tossing around comparisons to Hitler or to the Nazis. Blaring Christina Aguilara music at a chained, sleep-deprived prisoner is cruel, but it isn't quite the same as the systematic ethnic cleansing of an entire race and religion. I could go on with other examples but you get my drift.

Having said that I still do not feel that Durbin needed to apologize. His comments were taken out of context and his message was distorted. I have no problem with what he said.

Durbin's critics would have you believe that Abu Graib wasn't run by US troops. I hate to break it to those guys, but our Army is not, and should not, be above reasonable criticism when warranted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Ahem as a daughter of the holocaust

and a trained historian I will disagree with you.

The tactics used by the current GOP leadership and ... the Nazi party are not that disimilar... in fact they come from the same book

Oh and this time around it ist he Muslims at the top of the list, guess who is number two? If yuo don't believe me, read some of the rapture nuts out there.

[leesa]

62. I agree 100%. They are practically identical. Do we have to wait for

BushCo to kill millions before we can make the comparison?? I'm sure he's willing to do it. Let's try to avoid it this time and that means saying some hard things.

[Vincardog]

65. Right nadinbrzezinski the tactics are the same. We look back

and say 'Why didn't the German people stop him?'
Do we want to witness history ask us the same question?
The fact is that GW grand pappy was Hitler's Banker.
NeoCons are the same corrupt crew that has been profiting and encouraging war for generations.
WE have to say NO to the War Profiteers and return our country to the rule of law.

[bennywhale]

16. True. I think Hitler and the Nazi's are always used as they

are the most extreme and infamous from history. The post could apply to many dicatorships.

Whipped up Patriotism, combined with fear of outsiders or those different and/or terrorists, has been used by Dictators regularly to suspend freedoms and consolidate power.

From a position of increased control the actions of the dicator become almost unstoppable. It has to be nipped in the bud.

[nonconformist]

17. Comparing this regime's tactics to the tactics of Hitler's regime

Isn't the same as saying what is occurring at this very moment is another Holocaust. That is an important distinction that needs to be made. They may not be completely comparable to the Nazi regime of the 1940's (yet), but they're damn comparable to the Nazi regime of the 1930's.

What makes most people recoil in horror when you make Nazi comparisons is the weight of the word and the ideas that the entire Nazi movement was simply inhuman. Some site Goodwin's Law - which is an appropriate law when comparing random stuff to Nazis but not relevant when it comes to this.

Nobody on earth can convince me that the Bush administration hasn't styled their propaganda techniques after Goebbels. It's as clear as day. Their actions are simply fascist, true - but the direct comparisons cannot be ignored. They're actually very disturbing, and ignoring them is disastrous.

[tavalon]

57. See my sig line

Which is six months past needing to be changed. I created it in January 2004 when I realized the comparisons.

[EFerrari]

21. Actually, more than one race was subject to destruction.

And, the Nazis did not start their slaughter on the first day they were in power. We've yet to learn the extent of the "cruelty" at Gitmo. In other detainee centers, the torture has resulted in deaths.

The comparision is quite useful in predicting the trajectory we can expect should we fail to stop these criminals. So, in my opinion, Durbin was very wrong to apologize and so soften the truth he was speaking. He was in a difficult position, for sure.

[sellitman]

23. I echo your statement.

I feel as a Jew I am more sensitive about the Nazis than most here on DU would be, and I have no problem with Durbin's comments.

I do have a problem with his apology though.

[Eloriel]

28. Please remember, centristo

that the Holocaust was merely the final act of the Third Reich. There was SO much that led up to and facilitated it. Too many people dismiss any comparisons for that very reason (myopia over the MOST horrific, but certainly not the ONLY horrific aspect of the Third Reich), and it serves us very poorly because it blinds us to the truth and the reality, which is:

THIS ADMINISTRATION's ACTIONS ARE TRACKING NEARLY PERFECTLY WITH HITLER'S EARLY TRAJECTORY TO POWER -- WHICH RESULTED IN THE HOLOCAUST.

[whatever4]

44. Yes, what you said

Jon Stewart did a bit about using Hitler a few nights ago. I can understand his point. I think what people lose sight of is exactly what you say, they don't realize that just because he hasn't achieved Hitler proportions YET does not mean he is not as evil, and has the full potential. Hitler perverted from within, as Bush as done, and for me, just that is enough to compare them.

Also, I pointed out to someone else over this, with Depleted Uranium...it could easily be a holocaust sized event. In not so many years. Iraq has 24 million people alone. We've circulated over a millions troops throught it.

Just because we don't see the dead bodies yet doesn't mean they aren't in the works. Doesn't mean they aren't already dying either.

Could EASILY be as bad as the holocaust, with just as many dead. Easily.

Between that possibility, and global warming and peak oil, the US has been nothing but irresponsible and dangerous under this president, and in all honesty? We'll be damned LUCKY if we get off with something as modest as the holocaust now. Be damned lucky if we lose less lives and see less human misery.

Sometimes that sobering fact wakes people out of their reluctance.

[nonconformist]

59. EXACTLY.

Couldn't have stated it better myself.

[bvar22]

37. Gee, would beating prisoners to death count?

Blaring Christina Aguilara music may not qualify, but how about arresting family members of suspects and holding them hostage?

How about raping children on front of their parents to get them to talk?

How about whiping Fallujah off the face of the Earth as collective punishment for partisan attacks?

All these and more have happened under the authority of the bush* administration.

Are you arguing QUANTITY, or QUALITY?

Are we moving toward the atrocities of the NAZIs, or are we moving AWAY from them?

Give these sociopaths time. They are just getting warmed up.

bush* has surpassed the atrocities of Hitler during a comparable time frame. I don't believe that bush* wants to exterminate the inferior races. He and his just want to make them CorpoSlaves.

[passy]

63. Corposlaves !

but not only, the way they are recruiting the people they send to Iraq to get from the lowest classes of society is just another way for them to sanitize it.
Whenever I think of this subject I am reminded of the lyrics to "Kinky sex makes the world go round" by the Dead Kennedys
http://www.deadkennedys.com/images/albums/gcgd/lyrics.htm#14
"Now we know
there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming
around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble
for the police and damage private property.
It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job
It's about time we did something constructive with these people
We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over
The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-
And start another war"
Well it's so tragic that you just have to laugh.

[SlipperySlope]

2. True, as long as the distinction is kept...

Between *comparing* them to Nazis and saying that they *are* Nazis.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Bingo!

You nailed it!

[Kurovski]

24. And a comparison is all Durbin ever made.

He said reports would have you believe they were about some group other than Americans involved in the torture.

And that is true.

[Eloriel]

30. In fact, his distinction was even more refined than that

He was comparing just the torture -- er, excuse me, interrogation techniques -- to those used by despotic, fascist dictatorships.

[Kurovski]

35. Thank you for pointing that out..

we can't let the corporate media and Repub operatives get away with spinning in an attempt to silence critics.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. I know.

Which is why he shouldn't have backed down. But, considering the position he is in, I can give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Kurovski]

46. In his apology he basically said

he was sorry people did not understand him, and that his communication was "misused."

He was genuinely upset that any of our troops might have been hurt by what he said, but what he said was deeply revised by the media.

And that's who ultimately hoped to hurt our troops in order to cover up for the administration's abuses.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Excellent point. That grammatical distinction has bothered me.

[tuvor]

56. As someone just suggested, that won't matter because of right-wing SPIN.

[Amonester]

3. My dad dropped tons of bombs on this war criminal's

barbarian regime between 1942 and 1945. Yep.

What my dad and his courageous pals did was legal.

Then they asked us to never forget, to not let "them" rise to power ever again...

[ibegurpard]

4. You can argue that till you're blue in the face

And I happen to agree with you. But you have to win the spin war as well...something we seem incapable of doing for whatever reason.

[Spazito]

5. I totally agree, very good post

*

[Beaver Tail]

6. Great Words

This was well thought out and well versed.

[indepat]

7. Absolutely nothing this cabal has done makes any sense in the context

of our Constitution, our other founding documents, the ideals upon which this nation has flourished, albeit often much flawed, the rule of law, the land of the free and home of the brave, the promote the general welfare doctrine, and the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and the liberty, freedom, and justice for all doctrines. If fact, almost everything done makes a mockery of all these hallowed principles, ideals, and founding documents, yet most mystifying is the fact that tens of millions of Americans clamored for four more year, four more years and now an movement is even underway to repeal the 22nd Amendment so we can have a lifetime president considering the extremely vulnerable to fraud electronic voting apparatus in use.

[newswolf56]

9. I think usage is everything. It is more than legitimate...

...to refer to the "Nazi-like zeal" of the authoritarian Right, especially the Christofascists, and to speak of the "Nazi-like intentions" of the Dominionists, who make no secret of their intent to exterminate or otherwise persecute all their enemies. Indeed those are points I do not think we can over-stress. But to say that "so-and-so is a Nazi" (unless of course someone has seen his party card) is not only the worst sort of crying "wolf"; it is also slanderous, and therefore discredits the source more than the target.

[Beetwasher]

10. 6 Million Jews Weren't Murdered Overnight

The Nazi's atrocities also started small and grew because they got away with the first, smaller ones. They saw they could get away with it and so they continued.

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. I pointed out to someone today that....

Hitler hid his agenda about as much as PNAC has. In other words, both published prior to coming to power. You are absolutely correct. It's insidious and augments over time.

[grace0418]

11. A-effing-MEN to that nonconformist. eom.

[damntexdem]

12. They're looking at where the Nazis got to ...

not at where they were a decade earlier.

That's the attitude that allowed the German people to be led to their WWII fate.

[geniph]

14. I think they're more analogous to the Fascisti

and there are some really creepy similarities between Dimson and Mussolini.

[hemp_not_war]

15. I agree

Just because we aren't worse then Hitler yet, doesn't mean it's not ok to say anything. It is the same path. American nationalists have an external enemy and and internal enemy. Instead of retorick against Jews, it's liberals who are the pacifist enemy within. Has anyone seen the movie, '9/11 The Greatest Lie Ever Sold' produced by Anthony Hilder? It puts forth some striking comparisons between us and Nazi Germany, from events like the Reichtag, to people who were there. When you really start to put it all together, with the media control of the USA, you realize, everything is the same, just more sophisticated, just a kinder friendlier face on a similar agenda.

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. Mississippi Burning

was not exactly atypical of such parts of the Deep South, and even today the architect of the serial killing was found guilty of just manslaughter. When he entered the court room, someone apparently shouted encouragement to the "Preacher"!

Was that culture so much kinder than that prevailing in Germany on Kristallnacht? I don't recall reading of Jewish people in Germany being lynched by random members of the public and that, in the Deep South, not just with impunity but with the tacit connivance of the civil authorities. Were Jewish slave labourers forced to wear iron bits in their mouths? Did they have limbs cut off for trying to escape? I think shooting would be preferable and less demeaning. I believe your august Senate finally got round to apologising the other day for its reluctance to stamp down on lynchings, not in the 20s or 30s, mark you, but after WWII.

But as regards the resembance of the neocons' policies to Nazism, the ruthless means whereby they obtained power in both houses strikes me as, at least, one of the most significant similarities.

[emcguffie]

18. Hear, hear!

I can't fathom why people are so resistant to such an obvious parallel.

[The Magistrate]

19. The Problem With That Line, Ma'am

Is that none of these things are unique. They are the common-places of manipulation as applied to government and the moulding of popular opinion. They appear in every episode of revolution, counter-revolution, warfare, and in a great many instances of quite ordinary political life. This makes the comparison inapt.

No one will think of these things when a comparison to Nazis is made, and there is no reason they should, as they are neither emblematic nor unique to the Nazis. The only reason such a comaprison is ever made is to evoke the identification with absolute evil Nazism constitutes in the popular mind. Even if it is these things the utterer purports to mean, it is not what is heard by the great mass of listeners. These will generally, unless already committed ideologically to the views of the utterer, reject the comparison as exaggeration, and trivializing real horrors by comparing them to relatively small potatos in the atrocity line. A propaganda line that leads the greatest portion of those who hear it to begin arguing that the object of your attack is really not all that bad cannot be a good one.

"Political action is the art of getting people to think your thoughts, and think them their own as they do. In electoral politics, the side whose line provokes the most people to respond with, "Hey! That's just what I think!" wins."

[Kraklen]

49. This is a tricky situation.

On the one hand, comparing people or situations to Nazis and their atrocities hurts credibility.

On the other hand, without valid comparisons to Nazis, what becomes of the goal "never again?"

[nonconformist]

60. Some of us think that they are somewhat unique

Especially when viewed as a whole.

[The Magistrate]

64. That Perception, Ma'am

Is generally rooted in an insufficient acquaintance with other episodes....

"History is just one damned thing after another."

[mopaul]

20. if it blitzkriegs like a nazi, & it tortures like a nazi, it's a nazi

[DELUSIONAL]

45. Yep -- what he said!

Mike Malloy went into this subject last night and asked his Jewish listeners to respond to the Nazi comparisons of torture techniques by US troops.

I suspect the motives of individuals that are so quick to respond that ONLY the Jews blah blah blah blah blah . .

One woman wrote that the reason why the holocaust IS remembered so that it WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN -- because it is recognized that any racial or religious group can be targeted by the majority or the more powerful group. The holocaust was horrible -- but it was just a variation on a theme -- Us against THEM -- that is part of our animal nature.

Jane Goodall was shocked to learn that her chimps went to war and murdered other chimps. This is a very primitive version of Us against THEM.

In the US -- the THEM are the gays and the dark skinned "Muslims" -- as Mike Malloy rightly says -- the "new Jews". Merely the OTHER used to unite the masses in the US. Using the OTHER -- puts the masses into a primitive response mode -- no critical nor logical thinking is required.

Nazi has come to mean a specific sort of uncivilized (primitive) racist and cruel behavior, by the group in power, toward the OTHER. When we see that sort of behavior -- we correctly call the ones doing the torture -- Frickin Nazis. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck the damn creature is a duck.

[passy]

66. The Other is a ghost my friend.

That is the genius of 21st century Roveness. The Other is a terrorist in the shape of OBL that appears on the TV now and again.
But his cohorts that are already among you could attack whenever they want to.
That is the great thing about fighting a war against terrorism. In the doublespeak of this administration they told us all that the ones responsible for 9/11 were in the country for a long time, living among us, undetectable until they carried out their evil deeds.
In the same breath they reassure us that we have nothing to fear if we accept the patriot act, whilst playing with their little palette of terror threat levels to remind us of being scared.
If they really wanted to create a stereotype of the AQ terrorist they would have used their pictures a lot more, but that would have just led us to identify people coming from Saudi Arabia as terrorists not something this administration wants I'm sure.

[Eloriel]

27. THANK YOU!!!! I couldn't agree more. NOMINATED! Plus --

you're definitely not alone in finding the similarities (which you probably already realize).

Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Wake Up and Smell the Fascism
(examples of Britt's 14 points)
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

March 16, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

When Democracy Failed - 2005
The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm
When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

The NASCAR Nazi
Bush is creating an un-American America
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/38/lost-washburn.php

Nazification of America Phase 3
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

The Reichstag Fire and 9/11; Pretexts for Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich
Includes: Parallels between the Third Reich and the Bush Regime; 9/11 and the Reichstag Fire; What was the Reichstag Fire; Nazis in America; Poland 1939, Iraq 2003 http://www.oilempire.us/reichstag-fire.html

The Rise of the Fourth Reich
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html

Bush's 9/11 Reichstag Fire by Harvey Wasserman
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0913-03.htm

20 Comparisons by Barrie Zwicker
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/BloorRemarks911-03.htm

The Bush Plan for America: The Rise of an American National Security State
By Jennifer Van Bergen, 14 December 2003 http://www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/12/3232.shtml

America, We Have a Problem
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4dodd.htm

Fascism and America Today
by Aldo Vidali
http://www.apj.us/20010312fascism.html

Roads to Fascism: Sixty Years Later
by Roderick T. Long
http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long7.html

This is the Fight of Our Lives by Bill Moyers
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0616-09.htm

Published on Monday, July 19, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
The Ghost of Vice President Wallace Warns: "It Can Happen Here"
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-15.htm

Jim Macgregor
Neo-fascism in America
http://www.surfaceonline.org/essayamerica6.htm

E-book - It Can't Happen Here b y Sinclair Lewis
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/lewis/sinclair/happen/
Also read: The Iron Heel by Jack London and
"Der Fuhrer" by Konrad Heiden and "The Plague" by Camus
discussed here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2344349#2344364

"Now and Then"- Part 1
by W. David Jenkins and Sara DeHart June 6, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300019.htm
"Now and Then"- Part 2: The Propaganda Machine
by W. David Jenkins and Sara DeHart June 14, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300020.htm
"Now and Then"- Part 3
Hitler's Playbook: Bush and the Abuse of Power
by W. David Jenkins III and Sara DeHart July 4, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300021.htm


The killing of America and the rise of the World dictatorship. (Cleita's analysis -- excellent)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3661088&mesg_id=3661088

Wednesday 12th January 2005 (21h19) :
Worker Bees and Soldier Ants: America’s Army of Fascism
By Manuel Valenzuela
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5027

Is the b**sh administration fascist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1614392#1614556

For Freeper Lurkers, which Nazi propaganda method ISN'T Bush using?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3416328&mesg_id=3416328

Bush is no Hitler
It is much better to compare him to Nicolae Ceausescu.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3485449#3487398

The United States of Facism? Slowly but Surely, That’s What .. (East Waynesville church incident banning Dems)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x125181
Link: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/dawkins513

[Just Me]

31. I'm bookmarking to maintain those resources/discussions you post.

Thanks, Eloriel.

There is a growing and legitimate concern about how this country is evolving.

Those of us who are concerned come from EVERY walk of life. That fact comforts me a LOT!!! All good human beings without regard to sex, color, religion, etc are justifiably worried about the status of this nation.

[nonconformist]

54. Excellent compilation of links, thank you. nt

[Just Me]

29. It's not that certain analogies are correctly drawn,....

The problem is that the word, Nazi, has so many powerful image-provoking emotions attached that the logical comparisons will get lost by using the mere word, Nazi. Moreover, EVERYONE associates nazism with the destruction of Jews,...everyone.

I want to reach reasonable people. I can't reach them and show them or teach them about the extreme corporate greed that runs our country by starting out my discussion with "Republicans are Nazis". I can't convince anyone that the propaganda utilized by the neoCONs are more calculating and crafty than those designed by Goebbels if I start out asserting, "Bush is worse than Hitler". They won't listen to anything I have to say once I let out those two extremely visceral words, "Nazi" and "Hitler".

It's easy for me to post direct comparisons on this discussion board because most of us DO understand how the Hitler/Nazi regime operated and we are all concerned that the BushCO/neoCON regime may very well become more destructive than Hitler. But, when I speak with good, common people, there is no way in hell that I imagine being effective utilizing such inflammatory terms.

[passy]

67. I agree the term "Nazi" is too laden let's find something better

How about Corpofascists, Cuckoobananians, Chimpboys, Arbusto Jockeys, Corpocons, Pnackers, I like that last one although Pnackers sound a bit too much like a sports team though.
Pnackists, Pnackards, Neo Con Am Century = Neocac
Well neocons is probably more accurate anyway.

[DivinBreuvage]

32. Yes, and it is just as absolutely appropriate to compare them to

Athenian demagogues during the Peloponnesian War, or to the joint reign of Sejanus and Tiberius, or to Motecuzoma II. But nobody ever does that. Why?

[lonestarnot]

33. Your last line forgets that the war of lies began as an illegal war and

it still may be... and bushitler continues to tie the 9/11 attack to Iraq and people buy it... He did so just last week in the radio address so I hear. I never listen to the idiot as he gives me agina. Their nazis alright...Hitler had noth'n on this evil bastard and cronies.

[BiggJawn]

34. But his authority is legal on its face, as Hitler's was.

By 1944 most of the world had figured out that Hitler had NO legal right to do waht he did. But while back in the 30's, he had the "Enabling Act" and everything was all there, perfectly legal.

Bush has the same powers in his "USA PATRIOT act" ( a jingoistic, loaded-question name for an act if I ever heard one) that, unlike Hitler's Enabling Act, has "Sunset Provisons" in it. Provisions that the BFEE is fighting tooth and nail to get re-newed right now, while Murka is all distracted and amazed at Tom Cruise's new beard and Surly Scout's amazing tale of survival and emotional instability in the woods...

[lonestarnot]

36. Yes boy sprouts and beards take precedence over murder of 1728

Americans and 100,000+ innocent Iraqis

[BiggJawn]

39. Indeed. And don't forget what happened to Oprah!

Why, those Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys who own that snooty "Hermes" store in Paris refused to re-open for her when she rolled up 15 minutes after closing time....:sarcasm:

[lonestarnot]

42. eww...hahaha dis I did not know about.

[Disturbed]

41. Would there have been a fuss if..

Durbin had not mentioned Hitler or Poll Pot and only Stalin?

I think that references to Hitler &/or Nazis is a hot button allert.

When the RWs make these references, however, no RWs object. Double standard is surely SOP with the GOP.

Toture, beatings and other abuse were not isolated events by a few bad apples throughout the U.S. built prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, Diago Garcia and secret locations (Announced by the Intl. Red Cross). If many of the events of torture &/or abuse were read and then the question asked what country currently practices this type of action upon prisoners, what countries would be mentioned?

[bvar22]

40. Nobody is EQUATING bush* and Hitler!!!

There is a HUGE difference between EQUATING things, and comparing things!

Comparisons are ALWAYS valid.
How are they alike?
How are they different?

No one has equated bush* and Hitler.

For those who think camparisons to Hitler are over the top, READ Thom Hartmann's "When Democracy Failed" if you have the courage!

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

[Kellanved]

43. Is that so?

The problem I see with this school of thought is that you're going for the superlative. The comparison to end all comparisons, so to speak.
Problem is: In the attempt to match a few points (which would also match with basically any other government), you are ignoring a whole lot of other real issues; they pale in the comparison.

[stepnw1f]

47. This Administrations Actions Are Nazi-Like

I agree... I have been saying this for a while and do believe the folks that support Bush would march right behind Hitler in a heart beat. Look who they are going after... GAYS. Isn't that what the Reich did? Then the liberals and all people with dissenting political views.

These people are not Democratic, that's for sure.

[tuvor]

48. It may be appropriate. That doesn't matter if you only end up

turning off your audience.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. You can point out bush's extreme wrongdoings without having to compare him to anyone.

[nonconformist]

51. But therein lies the problem

Should one refrain from making valid comparisons or points just because they might "turn off" an audience? Should being "PC" override the cold hard truth? It turns people off because 1. they don't want to face it and 2. the weight those words carry. It's far beyond time to start calling a spade a spade, and I for one will not refrain from speaking the truth, no matter how un-PC or icky it might be.

One can make a very compelling case against the Bush regime by simply sticking to their specific actions without making any comparisons to anything. One can make a very compelling case that this administration is indeed fascist without mentioning a lick of historic precedence. But by ignoring that precedence, you will FAIL to make a compelling case on what can and will happen in the FUTURE. What's done is done, so to speak. That unfortunately can't be changed. What happens in the future CAN be changed, and if one ignores historical precedence they're doomed to repeat it. That is why it's not only irresponsible NOT to make historical comparisons but it's downright vital TO make them.

Some argue that it IS fascism, but drawing comparisons to Hitler's regime isn't relevant - after all, Hitler's regime wasn't the only fascist regime in history. The cold hard truth though is that there are VERY SPECIFIC, DIRECT COMPARISONS that can be made - not just generalizations. Not just "they were both fascist, so I'll compare them". I only wish it were that simple.

It is important to make the distinction that no one is claiming we're currently at Holocaust levels. Comparisons to 1940's Germany are indeed premature. Comparisons to 1930's Germany are unfortunately not.

[tuvor]

52. In answer to your question

"Should one refrain from making valid comparisons or points just because they might "turn off" an audience?"

Depends on how badly you want the audience, doesn't it?

[nonconformist]

53. Sugar-coating it hasn't been working out that well

We're polite-ing ourselves into oblivion.

[tuvor]

55. No one said to sugar-coat anything.

But I don't care for either extreme, myself.

If I give a well-crafted speech in the town square and no one listens, the net result is zero.

[Ksec]

50. I agree

Pretending something isnt happening doesnt mean it isnt happening.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[libodem]

58. Part of it is the one party system

That's what I grew up believing was wrong...no checks and balances...and that's what I don't like now...this regime is willing to crush the opposition and do any thing to win. The minority is being squelched and ridiculed and bastardized....and they cry victim if we rebut them

[Karenina]

61. Read history?

Observing what's happening around?

Scared yet? :hide: I sure am.

To paraphrase Maya Angelou, 'If someone tells you who he is, believe him the FIRST time.'

[CAcyclist]

68. Thank you!

:thumbsup:

And the louder they complain, the more we need to bring it up

[passy]

69. I was just talking about this with my Dad.

Kind of a coincidence, he was thinking that contrary to Germany in the 30's the crash might happen during or after the fascist regime.
We are heading for a gigantic economic crash if things don't change soon and we start seeing some Rooseveltian policies being implemented.