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MSNBC live poll ( did gwb mislead). 95% yes 5% no 50115 responses

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:23 AM
Original message
MSNBC live poll ( did gwb mislead). 95% yes 5% no 50115 responses
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 08:36 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
It's still up and running. MKJ
:hi:

edited to add link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/#survey

edited to change count in header...50,000+ just looks so good!
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holy shit. They can't accuse us of DUing that poll when it has 50K votes
Amazing!
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Just checked it again, officially over 50k!
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 08:37 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
I wonder what the MSNBC live poll record number of votes is for these polls?

It's be nice if this could be the one. MKJ

:applause:

I edited the thread title to reflect the newest milestone number.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I doubt this is close to any records
I recall several of the polls after the first */Kerry debates were over 300K and all the major sites (CNN, MSNBC, etc...) wiped their results out and started over because the results showed an OVERWHELMING Kerry victory. Something like 80%+ though Kerry beat the chimp in the debates.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thanks, I've checked my exuberance a bit..I love that 95% of those
who responded said gwb lied.

I'm encouraged that this poll is still up and running with this kind of result. MKJ



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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah, it's pretty amazing
that with such a large number of votes, the results are so overwheming. If my math is right, it means that only 2500 people said that bush was telling the truth. 2500 out of 50000.
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ok so we know now
that 5 percent is his base.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. LOL, but remember, the poll can only be accessed by literate people who
know how to operate one of those new fangled computers, and who look for news at other places rather than faux or the evangelical hour on teevee.
So, there's probably another 3% out there, somewhere. MKJ

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. So instead of impeaching him
maybe we can just bend him over and 95% of us all across the country can give him a kick in the ass one at a time..

Like his old frat Hazing days..

THUMP

"Please Sir, May I have another?"

THUMP

"Please Sir, May I have another?"

THUMP

"Please Sir, May I have another?"


Lather, Rinse, Repeat.. :)
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Talk about a paradigm shift...
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, but . . .
How much of that 95% think it matters that Bush lied?

For most of us here, this matters and that he lied is not even a surprise. These lies are war crimes. It is just wrong to prosecute a war of aggression, let alone lie about the reasons that supported the decision.

America is a democracy. Democracy presumes that a legitimate government acts only with informed consent of the citizens (citizenship being universal and equal). When the leadership, which is privy to information, does not share that information with the citizens in an effort to manipulate public opinion prior to making a decision of great importance, such as going to war, then the democratic process is corrupted. The decision to invade and occupy Iraq was reached as the result of such a corrupted process; it is the greatest single betrayal of the citizens by their leadership in American history.

That is my point of view. I believe many here share it.

Nevertheless, there is a school of thought that says the leader knows best and we should give him the benefit of the doubt when he is conducting policy, even when he lies to the people. He is doing it for a good reason.

Let's look at the decision to invade Iraq from an alternative to the democratic paradigm.

America is a republic, not a democracy. The proposition All men are created equal is nonsense. There is a social hierarchy because some men are superior to others; this is natural and good. The best system of government is one that places power in the hands of those best suited to rule, creating a political hierarchy that reflects the natural social hierarchy. A popular election is an imperfect way of determining who is best suited to rule; an individual voter does best to select a leader based on the confidence he has in the candidate's judgment. Once the leadership is selected, the people are expected to support its decisions and don't need to participate in the decision-making process; that process does not even need to be transparent. If the people are dissatisfied, they will have the opportunity to replace the leadership in the next scheduled popular election.

Perhaps Mr. Bush and this lieutenants knew that there were no banned weapons in Iraq and no working relationship between Saddam's government and the terrorists who attacked America on September 11, 2001. As Mr. Wolfowitz said, the leadership told the citizens there were weapons and a terrorist association because it was something the citizens understood better than whatever other objectives they had in mind in invading Iraq. If they lied to the citizens, it was for the good of citizens; since the citizens did not remove the leadership from power when they had the opportunity to do so, they must agree.

A number of holes can be shot through this argument, even if one accepts the elitist paradigm on which it rests, but we don't need to go into that now. For one thing, I don't accept that paradigm and neither do most members of Democratic Underground.

However, we should be aware that there are people who accept it and therefore believe that it is of no great moment if the leadership lies to the citizens, even about going to war.

It's quite firmly established now that the neoconservative duplicity prior to the invasion was deliberate; the question is: how many people believe that is a betrayal of public trust?
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. are you referencing DeToqueville? It's been years, actually decades,
since I read it, but it has a familiar ring.

I would offer that even if there are those who are not bothered by it, they have absolutely no basis for fighting against an impeachment or criminal charges for those who deliberately deceived us into this illegal, horrific use of our military men and women.

And, I really love to see the RW'ers in my workplace squirm when I calmly state, "the President lied to the American people", because they have nothing with which to refute the statement.

MKJ



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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. A little of that
More The Federalist Papers (particularly those written by Hamilton) and some stuff from Leo Strauss and his followers.

There's more discussion here.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chimp "Did I lie? Why yes i did, yes I did indeed!"
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. lol, burst out laughing at that one! n/t
MKJ
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