Can we import George Galloway and make him the Democratic

[KlatooBNikto]

Party's spokesperson? Is there anything that says such a person has to be an American citizen? If it is, let us give him an honorary citizenship and let him give hell to the Republican wimps.

[geek tragedy]

1. Galloway is a Marxist, not a liberal. His beliefs and values are not

representative of the Democratic party.

[KlatooBNikto]

6. What does Marxist mean? In the UK he is considered a Socialist.

That cames from his activism in trade unions. Is there anything wrong with that?

[geek tragedy]

7. He is the public face of a front organization for the SWP--dedicated

Marxists.

Don't forget his unrepentant support for the Soviet Union and the fact that he'd call himself a Stalinist "if it didn't make a rod for my back."

"Socialist" is an impossibly vague term--it describes everyone from Bernie Sanders to Mao.

[KlatooBNikto]

15. Why is Socialist an impossibly vague term and not Marxist? I guess

Socialist has not yet reached the stigma level that the term Marxist carries. By the way, the abbreviation SWP stands for Socialist Workers' Party in the United Kingdom and it has hundreds of thousands of members.Calling it a front organization does not properly do it justice.

[geek tragedy]

18. He heads up RESPECT, which is a front for the SWP. eom

[KlatooBNikto]

20. Respect is an organization that wants the Socialist Workers' Party to

enforce its economic demands. What is so Front about it?

[geek tragedy]

24. The SWP is the main force behind Respect.

Traditionally, hardcore Marxists like the SWP believe that democratic elections are bourgeois fantasies.

[KlatooBNikto]

25. In the Bush era they have indeed become bourgeois fantasies.

[geek tragedy]

27. The SWP has been saying that for decades.

However, that is not the position of the Democratic Party.

[KlatooBNikto]

29. Is there any other thing Marxism stands for according to you?This

does not look like a plank a major ism would define itself by.

[geek tragedy]

31. Besides the abolition of private property and most individual rights?

Of course, the SWP has taken to including anti-semites in order to broaden their appeal.

[KlatooBNikto]

38. The Socialist Workers' Party has never called for abolition of individual

property rights.What it calls for is that major resources like Power, Water,Transportation and Health should be under public control.That is no different than Scandinavian countries or Holland.

[geek tragedy]

39. They want to abolish capitalism. And, if you seriously deny that

they're Marxists:

http://www.swp.org.uk/archive.php

[KlatooBNikto]

42. Wrong.They would actually encourage individual initiative by

making it possible for all people to use public resources that are essential. That is how Sweden and Norway have prospered.

[geek tragedy]

44. Have you ever read their website?

http://www.swp.org.uk/where.php

What is their goal?

"Fighting to end capitalism and war."

[KlatooBNikto]

46. I went to school in UK and know many people who were involved in the

SWP.They are what the Europeans would call Democratic Socialists,Modern, technically savvy and very conscious of promoting educational advancement as a way to promoting enterprise. That is a far cry from your strident labeling and hysterical guilt-by-association tactics.

[geek tragedy]

47. You have been misinformed.

Read their website, where they state their goal as "fighting to end capitalism" and are EXPLICITLY Marxist?

The SWP are not Social Democrats. They are Trotskyists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)

[KlatooBNikto]

51. Do you realize how long I have lived in the UK? More than ten years.

[geek tragedy]

53. So what? The SWP are Trots--that's beyond dispute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_%28UK%29

[KlatooBNikto]

54. So what if they were Trots, as you call them.They are modern technocrats

every bit as enterprising as anyone here.Many of my friends now occupy very high executive postions in business while retaining their membership in , gasp, SWP.

[geek tragedy]

60. I don't really care what your friends do for a living. The SWP remains an

ultra-left Marxist organization.

Someone who serves as the poster boy for that movement is simply not representative of the membership of the Democratic party. Harry Reid and Howard Dean and Barack Obama aren't representative of the SWP, and George Galloway is not representative of the Democratic Party.

[KlatooBNikto]

66. If they were the people characterize by your fanatical labeling, they

wouldn't even be successful businessmen. They are graduates of some of the best schools in the UK like Sussex, Oxford and Cambridge, not your garden variety schools with firebrand politicians.

[geek tragedy]

72. So what? Where a person goes to school has nothing to do with how

far left they are. There are plenty of far left students and graduates from the elite universities in the United States.

[KlatooBNikto]

74. I am simply talking about their ability to function in business while

reatining their belief that ownership of vital resources and services
must be in public hands.

[geek tragedy]

76. That still doesn't change the very public and perfectly explicit

statements coming straight from the SWP that DIRECTLY contradict what you're saying.

[KlatooBNikto]

33. SWP is a major organization in the UK comprised of hundreds of

thousands of people.You can't stick your McCarthyist labels on them and define them out of exitence. George Galloway is lecetd to the House of Commons, unlike some pretenders I know.Obviously he believes in the electoral process.

You are continuing to clutch at straws to defame a man who has been an outspoken opponent of Bush.That alone makes him a worthwhile contributor to the Democratic Party, IMO.

[geek tragedy]

36. You deny that they're Marxists?

Saddam also was "an outspoken opponent of Bush." As is Kim Jong Il. Shall we appoint them as spokespeople for our party as well?

The Free Republic has thousands and thousands of members. I don't give those nutters any credibility either.

[cprise]

12. Read the responses and weep.

You are seeing why the left has no backbone in this country.

[realFedUp]

2. for people here who have trouble with Dean's speaking out....

Galloway is much more "outspoken".

I applaud both of them.

And frankly I'm tired of the hidden freepiness
of these kinds of posts at DU lately.

[KlatooBNikto]

5. What is wrong with having two 'outspoken' spokespersons?

[earthside]

3. Not Likely ...

If the establishment Democratic leaderhip gets squeamish with the rather mild statements of Howard Dean, they'd never be able to handle the blunt truth-telling of George Galloway.

There is an American version of Galloway, by the way. It's David Cobb, the Green Party's 2004 presidential candidate.

This does speak to the big dilemma for Democrats in 2006 and 2008. Are they going to be content with more candidates who are cautious and timid in their rhetoric ... or will they demand challenging language and positions, real opposition to Bush and the radical Republicans? Or will liberals and progressives support third party candidates that campaign the way they actually feel?

I find it interesting that you won't even hear most Democratic officeholders using the term "radical Republicans" ... that's not so harsh, really. Why do you suppose that is?

[AX10]

4. I respect his right to speak an he is is right on many issues...

but I disagree with him on many issues to, including economic. He is a borderline Marxist and while a respect his right to be so, Marxism is
not in line with the Democratic party's beliefs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Eeek! Eeek! He's Marxist! Way "too liberal" so sayeth the DLC.

The rightwingers would be calling Democrats "socialists" or "Commies".

Oh, wait..they're doing that now.

[TankLV]

10. I heard he had SOCIALIST leanings!

SHRIEK!

The HORROR!

[geek tragedy]

11. Marxists don't belong in the Democratic party.

Any Marxist or Democrat will tell you that.

[cprise]

13. Then the two-party system has to go.

So much for 'big tent'.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Sez who? You?

I know plenty of Marxists in the Democratic Party. How about Anarchists like me? How about non-Marxist Socialists?

Only Capitalists allowed? Why bother with a Democratic Party at all? We should all just become rich capitalists and Republicans.

[geek tragedy]

19. Can you name ONE prominent Dem who is also a Marxist?

How many Democrats have been elected while campaigning on a Marxist platform?

George Galloway does NOT represent the values or the positions of the Democratic party, or its members.

[KlatooBNikto]

35. Can you name one Democrat with a spine.George Galloway would

be the first one if he chooses to become one.

If Hunter Thompson were alive he would love George Galloway. To Hunter
the Democratic Party is a party of Swine.I would add, with apologies to Hunter, it is more properly Spineless Swine.

[geek tragedy]

37. I can name several with a spine. Harry Reid, Howard Dean, Carl Levin,

Dick Durbin, to name a few.

And, given your obvious hatred for the Democratic party, what the hell are you doing here? And why do you care who WE have as our spokesperson, since you're not one of us?

I certainly wouldn't tell the Marxists who they should appoint as their spokesperson. You shouldn't tell us who should speak for us.

[KlatooBNikto]

40. Who are the 'we' you are alluding to? It looks like from my post that

almost everyone likes my idea except you.

The three you have alluded to were also the ones who voted for the IWR and even after the revelations of the past few eeks, have not had the courage to repudiate that vote.

[geek tragedy]

41. Carl Levin voted against the IWR.

And the vast majority of real Democrats (DU is not representative of the Democratic party) would not want George Galloway speaking for us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. No. But, I sure as hell wish I could.

What's your gripe with Marxists? They're a helluva lot more progressive than establishment Democrats.

[geek tragedy]

45. That's a matter of opinion. We Democrats would obviously disagree--

otherwise we'd be Communists instead of Democrats.

[KlatooBNikto]

48. It looks like most of Sweden which believes in public ownership of vital

resources would fall under your definition of a communist.That is not the way most Democrats should think.There is always room for alternative points of view without having to exclude people for their beliefs on economic matters.

[geek tragedy]

52. Has Sweden "ended capitalism?" Have the proletariat taken power

in Sweden?

[KlatooBNikto]

59. In Sweden, things like Power, Transportation, Health and Education are

publicly owned. That is exactly the position of the SWP.

[geek tragedy]

63. They have called for a revolutionary end to capitalism.

That is their STATED goal.

[KlatooBNikto]

67. Not according to my personal friends who occupy fairly high positions in

their hierarchy.

[geek tragedy]

69. So your friends say that the SWP's own website LIES about their goals?

It's there for everyone to read.

Sorry, but when SWP leaders are willing to repudiate the goal of the revolutionary end of capitalism, then I'll believe such nonsense. Not a moment before.

[KlatooBNikto]

49. Who is this 'We' you keep alluding to?

[geek tragedy]

50. Democrats--the people you refer to as "swine."

[KlatooBNikto]

58. I am free to label a party that rushes into war without asking questions

a Party of Swine. If you do not think that rush to war was OK, be my guest.Have you seen any of them repudiate that war yet?

[geek tragedy]

61. Then why do you care who we pick as our spokesperson?

I think the Republicans and the SWP are swine. I would never lecture them on who their spokespeople should be.

[KlatooBNikto]

71. Who is this 'we' you keep talking about.I can have a position on the

swinish attitude of the Democrats on the IWR while retaining my privileges in the Party.I have not ceded any of my rights to you.

[geek tragedy]

75. Seriously, if you think the Democrats are swine, why belong to the

Democratic party?

[KlatooBNikto]

79. They are swine because of their postion on the Iraq War.My association

with the Democratic part goes far longer than that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Who is "We Democrats"? I' m a Democrat and an Anarchist.

You seem to think that the Democratic Party has an ideology. Got big news for you. It doesn't.

[geek tragedy]

64. George Galloway would be as appropriate spokesperson for the Dems

as would Pitchfork Pat Buchanan.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

70. Now there is a real stretch.

Just what is it you have against Marxists? "Too liberal?" to borrow a phrase from the DLC.

[geek tragedy]

73. Well, there's the Soviet Union, Maoist China, North Korea . . .

I'm sure they'll get it right eventually . . .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

80. How about the USofA. Are they going to get capitalism "right"?

Eventually? Ever? So, far it's a flop. Unless you happen to be a capitalist a la those great friends of humanity Donald Trump, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, et al.

[geek tragedy]

81. I'll take the US over North Korea and the Soviet Union. eom

[cprise]

84. And I'll take Cuba over the Religious Police in Saudi Arabia. Any day.

I wonder how many Amputations you would qualify for under Saudi law?

BTW- I am a participant in a revolution against a software industry ruled by capitalism, and I haven't killed or imprisoned anyone.

[cprise]

82. This is a load of BS

You seem to be conveniently overlooking the contributions that Marxists and other non-capitalists make to stable democracies. It common, but NOT fair to erase the role they play when sharing power in multi-party democracies. Of course, this is often lost on Americans since it is a stretch to say we experience anything so diverse.

Why not declare your hatred of Islam because a branch of it calls for fundamentalist Sharia law?

[geek tragedy]

85. I support the blend of capitalism and socialism that one finds in most

Western states--especially Canada and the EU. I think the US needs to adopt a single-payer health insurance approach.

However, folks spouting Marxist rhetoric about revolution and ending capitalism are absolutists living in a time-warp.

[cprise]

86. Neo-liberalism is stuck in the 1920s

...so don't preach to me from a "representative" Democrat position about time-warps.

The fact of the matter is that Democrats countenance free-market absolutism in their own way, and even Howard Dean was a friend to the Cato Institute. That's what we got with the "third way": Agreement on one absolute, defining one's own party relative to it (e.g. Republican-Lite). We got a pair of Inner and Outer Parties, and unaccountable industries that rely on government bailouts.

I am not a Marxist, but the ones I know can distinguish between capitalism and private enterprise. They may have an unbalanced concept of responsibility, but its no worse than the average capitalist. And when I use Social-Democrat language to champion the history and value of public enterprise at least they don't stare blankly or shreik in horror the way neo-liberals (Democrats) do.


"I think the US needs to adopt a single-payer health insurance approach."

What IS that? Do those grey words have anything to do with the way the rest of humanity thinks about universal healthcare? Do they evoke economic human rights? Or are they just verbal diarrhea designed to avoid being labeled a socialist?

[KlatooBNikto]

21. Having defined him as a Marxist with no reason, you want to exclude him

using Guilt By Association Tactics. Joe McCarthy ring a bell?

[geek tragedy]

22. The saddest day of his life was when the Soviet Union fell.

He declined to call himself a Stalinist only because "it would make for a rod in my own back."

He was a supporter of the Soviet Union, for which he has never repented.

He is aligned with an explicitly Marxist political party.

He is, without doubt, a Marxist.

[KlatooBNikto]

23. Can you define a Marxist for me?

[geek tragedy]

26. How about a party that sponsors a yearly conference called "Marxism?"

http://www.swp.org.uk/marxism/speakers.htm

[KlatooBNikto]

28. You still haven't answered the question. Do you have a succinct

definition of Marxism?

[geek tragedy]

30. How about people who belong to an explicitly Marxist party?

Certainly being a supporter of the Stalinist empire qualifies one as a Marxist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. You mean like W.E.B. Dubois, Bayard Rustin, Langston Hughes,

Helen Keller, Albert Einstein, Aaron Copland, Richard Wright, and many, many more? Alas, no I can't name any Democratic politicians who have the courage to call themselves Marxists, though I expect you may find a few who are, nevertheless.

But, most western European nations with Labour/Socialist governments are led by Marxists. Shroeder, Zapotero, come to mind.

[geek tragedy]

65. Schroeder is a Marxist? Somebody should tell him so he can

change his policies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Yeah. He and Blair could be called "MINOS".

Although Schroeder is less so than the alleged "socialist" Blair.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

68. Let's see he belongs to a Trotskyist party and loves Stalin?

Now, that is unusual. Last I heard the Trots weren't all that big on Stalin and vice-versa.

[geek tragedy]

77. Galloway used to be a vigorous opponent of Saddam's regime too.

He flip-flops when it suits his agenda.

And he did used to be a vigorous opponent of the Trots. His claim now is that the SWP are "no longer Trots."

http://www.workersliberty.org/comment/reply/4220

"“I have a long track record of opposition to them .... I think, first of all, in this post-Soviet world, we have to redefine our terms. We’re no longer really talking about Trots. What we’re really talking about is ultra-leftism."

[Caledonia]

9. No!

You can't have him. We need him here to deal with Blair first. ;)

He is doing a speaking tour in the USA this Summer though, but we want him back.

[KlatooBNikto]

16. I can understand why you want him back. Can't you be kind enough to share

him with us?

[Just Me]

17. Well, at minimum, I sure would LOVE to see him give more testimony,..!

,...before that "investigative" committee. It is a pleasure to listen to an advocate for humanity R-O-A-R!!!

I find him delicious. :loveya:

[CityDem]

32. We don't need Galloway

We just need some transplant surgery for senators like Nelson, Nelson, Biden, Pryor, etc. They all need a set of balls like Durbin.

[geek tragedy]

34. Balls (or ovaries) and brains is what we need.

Howard Dean and Harry Reid have both.

[cprise]

83. Well, by your standards Howard Dean is a flip-flopper. n/t

[KansDem]

55. I don't know...Doesn't he speak "British English?"

...and therefore uses words that might mean something different in American English? USAToday would have to be "interpreting" for us all the time...

[KlatooBNikto]

57. And his English, because it is laced with truth, sounds just great to me.