How much mileage will pugs get out of our infighting about Dean?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

I think they will use the squawks and digs of the assorted Democrat senators and congressman and replay them over and over, covering up any real news that might come along. And we just play right into their hands.

[fooj]

1. Apparently, we have a problem wilth replaying it over and over, as well.

:banghead:

[TheFarseer]

2. I'm afraid what has happened is

people were getting fed up with the pubs after Terri Shiavo and some other things like that, and now we get this perceived "name calling" and whatever else you want to say and now we might be back to even in terms of people fed up with politicians and partisan bickering. just my take

[Pirate Smile]

3. It would have been really nice to spend this time focused on the terrible

news for Bush in the new ABC/WP Poll that came out a couple of days ago.



For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of the American public believes the fight there has not made the United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

While the focus in Washington has shifted from the Iraq conflict to Social Security and other domestic matters, the survey found that Americans continue to rank Iraq second only to the economy in importance -- and that many are losing patience with the enterprise.

Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting -- in all three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.

Perhaps most ominous for President Bush, 52 percent said war in Iraq has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States, while 47 percent said it has. It was the first time a majority of Americans disagreed with the central notion Bush has offered to build support for war: that the fight there will make Americans safer from terrorists at home. In late 2003, 62 percent thought the Iraq war aided U.S. security, and three months ago 52 percent thought so.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060700296.html

more:

"There were signs, however, that Bush and Republicans in Congress were receiving more of the blame for the recent standoffs over such issues as Bush's judicial nominees and Social Security. Six in 10 respondents said Bush and GOP leaders are not making good progress on the nation's problems; of those, 67 percent blamed the president and Republicans while 13 percent blamed congressional Democrats. For the first time, a majority, 55 percent, also said Bush has done more to divide the country than to unite it."

67% blame Prez and Republicans v. 13% blame Democrats"

[tinfoilinfor2005]

6. Thanks for that!

I heard snippets of it yesterday morning, but never did get to see a detailed article.

[gordianot]

4. Exactly right.

From this day forward I also vow to stay off any comments about Howard Dean even if I might disagree with him (I do not disagree). Notice though there are many Democrats in Congress who are not commenting.

[jobycom]

5. Nah, they'll laugh, but the laughter will turn to choking

First, I'm NOT impressed with Dean so far, but I wasn't impressed with him during the campaign, either. That's not the point of my post, it's the disclaimer to filter what I say through.

All this infighting will help this party to better define what it wants to be. Dean has a fresh image, others have fresh images, and lot of people have stale images. What Dean is doing, aside from pissing off people, is shaking things up, so everything will come loose, and we can all work together to reassamble it all in a way that makes us all happy. Or at least makes us all feel like we were heard.

That will invigorate the party, and going into the next election we won't be screaming "Vote for us to defeat Bush," but "vote for us because this is what we will do for you!"

The Republicans can laugh and bash us all they want--that's their job--but in the end they won't like what they are facing, and if they are still trying to use old battles and old words against us, we'll leave tire tracks across their empty little heads.

Edited for Freudian typo: on changed to off

[tinfoilinfor2005]

8. Oh...well, in that case, I certainly missed the point.

It sounded like just plain old target practice to me.

[jobycom]

10. Well, it is

We're Democrats, no one is going to roll over and accept what someone else says. Hopefully it will turn it into a big brawl, then the media will report, and everyone will be watching us, and then they'll hold "summits" and then Dean and Obama and Biden will walk out hand in hand and announce they have settled their differences, yadayadayada... Pretty standard stuff. Unless Dean is dumb enough to want it all his way, but from what I've seen of him, he understands the game.

My biggest question is whether Dean supporters will stick with him when he makes adjustments, or whether they will turn on him, too. I imagine there will be some of each. Just guessing, though. (I sound like I think I know what I'm talking about, but I'm just thinking aloud.)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Not much. It's a tepid story at best. The MJ verdict will sink it.

I seriously doubt that most people give a rat's ass about the squabble.

[JDPriestly]

9. Can you imagine John McCain

criticizing Karl Rove or even Rush Limbaugh for their exaggerations -- or Mehlman for that fact for suggesting that Democrats are pro-terrorist. And then their is Schwarzenegger who runs on the platform that he is not controlled by "special interests" meaning just exactly what considering that he is supported by the white Christian right, which is a special interest if there ever was one? Criticize Republicans and their media loud-mouths, not Dean. Let Dean do his job.

Criticize the appeasers, not the activists.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I think we're getting much more mileage out of this than the repubs are

Let's look at a few things ....

Dean has managed to break through the press blackout on all things Dem. He did this by throwing verbal hand grenades .... actually, more like Molotov cocktails. He sounds like a veritable revolutionary.

Idiot son's numbers are already low and keep dropping. Obviously many who voted for him are having a change of view, if not heart.

Back to Dean. He throws out that 'white Christian party' thing. Its at least partly true, and its out there.

The noise machine goes ballistic on Dean. Some on our side go equally ballistic on Dean. But that's all a side show.

Remember that 'white Christian party' comment? Remember that erosion in idiot son's base's view of him? Refuted or not, Dean's comment causes them to question their party even more. He calls it like it is and they, in their private moments, consider his words. They see the (at least partial) reality of it and then they look in the mirror. And they say 'white Christian party' ...... ? That's not me.

Dean's been giving the repubs a wedgie. A big wedgie. A wedgie that could well be the kernel that starts a schism that has but one beneficiary ... idiot son's opposition ...... us.

[kentuck]

12. none...

so long as the people understand what the discussion is all about..It's about George Bush and the Republicans. No matter if the argument is between Dean supporters and other Democrats and the issue is about whether Bush lied or about the "white, Christian Party", it is about the Republicans, it is not about Dean or the Democrats. That another way to frame an issue and work around the propagandists and the MSM, in my opinion.