I hate Pit Bulls. They should be banned from the neighborhood

[mopaul]

and i won't suffer any pit bull apologists, i've seen the evidence firsthand, they are dangerous and uncontrollable, as a breed.

i constantly read reports of pit bull attacks, and my own dog was attacked by two pit bulls. if it had been a child, that child would be dead. when i called the cops, they said the dogs had escaped numerous times.

i wish they'd have a total ban on this breed, or at least a ban on having them in residential districts.

call me a specie-ist

[KlatooBNikto]

1. When I read the title of your post, I thought you were talking about

the pit bull RWers that flock to the DU board disrupting civilized conversations among us liberals.

[xchrom]

2. i like all dogs. pit bulls included.

and don't give a rat's ass if you ''suffer'' me or not.

[meegbear]

3. My niece was bitten in the face by one when she was 10

she's 20 and still has a couple of "bite marks" on her face, but they are not noticable.

Here in Lynn, MA, they are considered a toughness status symbol. The person who helped personify that, the head of the local Hells Angels, believes that if a dog does attack someone without provocation, it should be immediately put down. In my niece's case, it was.

[mopaul]

5. in the 'old' days, any dog that attacked a kid was killed

end of story

[meegbear]

11. as they should ...

a dog like that was not bred for it's cuddliness. Them and rotweilers I have no patience for.

[Modem Butterfly]

20. Rotties are great!

I've known several Rotties and they've all been just great, smart, affectionate and loyal. Any dog is dangerous if you provoke it and bigger dogs can naturally do more damage than smaller dogs. But that's not an argument for breed banning.

[seabeyond]

33. from post below two pits next door. 3 rotweillers first 5 years

in this house. they roamed in pack.

"Any dog is dangerous if you provoke it "

i must have provoked the thing opening my garage door to go out to my car. my bad

[Modem Butterfly]

48. NO dog, of any breed, should be allowed to roam in packs

But I guess no one bothered to do anything about that because it's just easier and simpler to attack the breed rather than irresponsible owners

[seabeyond]

63. f*in everybody in the f* neighborhood did something

we really didnt like having to have a continual watch of the driveway when our children were outside. drawing up plans in our head how to get babies inside if/when they got out. spent two summers in fenced back yard for protection. we couldnt use our front or side yard

how arrogant. right we all just said, hey,.......we are so lazy and so dont care about our children we wont do anything. took us that long, and that many trips out by animal control, and that many fines for the owner to get rid of the three rotweillers

now they have two pits

but, blame the neighborhood

[Modem Butterfly]

71. I don't buy it

What did the town council say? The county commissioners? The state department of natural resources? The local media? The animal control department? Did you really do something, or did you just barricade yourselves in your houses and your yards and complain about dangerous dogs?

[seabeyond]

87. i am not selling something modem.

dont buy it. i dont give a fuck. just fuckin stick up for the breed. of course it is just an animal. a friggin animal that will behave like an animal. i have a better understanding than what seems like the majority of the people on this board. it will behave like an animal.

and it is strong, a lower tolerance of pain, and "courage".......will not back down.

i dont blame this animal. it is being exactly what it is.

it doesnt belong in a neighborhood of children because it is just an animal. and there are too many that wont give it the special training, and care it needs to not be a threat.

[Modem Butterfly]

Yeah, I didn't think you guys did anything

Dangerous animals are a problem. We need to attack that problem by going after the persons who, either through neglect or by design, create dangerous animals. Banning an entire breed based on public hysteria won't solve the problem, and will likely make it worse. But it is certainly easier than working to solve it.

[seabeyond]

101. read post #97 below modem

but.........your attitude and appraoch in this issue, simply sucks. a waste of my time

[Dorian Gray]

100. Wow...

I agree with you Modem that you can't blame the breed, but you are expecting A LOT of work out of people before someone does something about a dangerous animal in the neighborhood.

I love dogs, and it really saddens me when I see one that needs to be destroyed because it attacked a human. I feel for the animal because it is just that, an animal. It doesn't KNOW that what it does is wrong. But, it's still an animal. If I complain to the police about animals that attack, and they do nothing about it (nothing includes pointing me in the correct direction of who to speak to), then what is there really to do?

If Animal Control ignores people who complain about dogs that attack children in the streets, then there is a problem. I don't see why we should have to go to the town council, the county commissioners, the state department, etc. about the situation.

People shouldn't have to change their lives because other people want to be irresponsible animal owners.

[Modem Butterfly]

105. It's a really huge problem and it's one I've been working on

If dangerous animals are a problem in your neighborhood and Animal Control hasn't done anything, you need to step up to the plate and work on the problem. It's called civic duty and it's how citizenship works. You see a problem, whether it's dangerous animals, an unsafe intersection, or impropriety in elections and you work to fix it. I'm not sure why that should seem so onerous, especially if you think your children are in danger.

[Tim4319]

106. I have a Rotty!

If treated right, Rotties are the nicest dogs to have! My Rotty is so nice that a little girl who is afraid of dogs, walked her without incident. So, I do not believe you should categorize an entire breed. Please take it case-by-case.

[Modem Butterfly]

13. I think a lot of dog attacks are provoked

I have seen too many kids abuse too many dogs with the good natured acquiesence of their parents. On a Chow Chow discussion board, we had one person complain about how her Chow had bitten her step son, who had been playing with her for half an hour. Turned out the playing consisted of the kid beating the dog with a wiffleball bat. You hit me with a wiffleball bat only once and I'd bite the shit out of you too. Anyway, a member of our board stood up and adopted the dog away.

I don't believe dogs suddenly snap, but I do believe dogs can be pushed too far.

[progmom]

4. nope

bad dog ownwers should be banned. and they defninitely should not be allowed to have such potentially dangerous dogs.

[aeolian]

9. Then why can't I keep a tiger as a pet in the city?

[mopaul]

12. I heard there are about 6,000 pet lions, tigers, leopards, etc, in the u.s

maybe they'll keep the pit bull population down

[progmom]

14. i'm assuming you don't expect me to answer your ridiculous question

:)

[oscar111]

6. total ban is good

like your idea.

Core of LW is to reduce suffering.. and almost as core is equality.

but the core is less suffering.

banning pit bulls and {as pets} tigers, would suit me just fine.

I also am repelled by pet snakes which owners feed things still alive. snakes ARE fed live lizards and live other things}

[Modem Butterfly]

7. Worst bite I ever got was from a golden retreiver

I had an uncle who bred them. I got too close to a female's bowl at feeding time. Ten stitches and a tetanus shot later, I got a spanking and a lecture about how NOT to act around strange dogs.

There are no bad dogs, just irresponsible and bad owners.

[mopaul]

10. daughter attacked by german shepard, son by cocker spaniel

but pit bulls suck

[Modem Butterfly]

16. Pit Bulls just get bad press

Most dog bites in the US are from small dogs. People think they're cute when they're vicious because they can't really hurt anyone, so they go untrained. Fucking stupid if you ask me.

[mopaul]

21. two of them attacked my dog, and i beat them with my crutch

one had him by the balls, one by his lips ripping away, and all i could do was beat the shit out of them with my crutch, which would have knocked any grown man down, they just ignored me, and i figured i was next.

and my dog was in his own yard minding his own business.


i thought about shooting them, but didn't want the hassle.

[Modem Butterfly]

26. You should go after the owners, not the dogs

Those dogs learned that behavior. You're misdirecting your anger and in the process, providing cover for the people who create bad dogs.

[mopaul]

30. i called the cops on the owners, nothing was done about it

[Modem Butterfly]

31. So you go after the entire breed?

That makes no sense.

[seabeyond]

37. yes. i have done research, because i was assured it is not the dogs

fault. they were right, it isnt the dogs fault. it is an animal and innately in these animals to be aggressive. especially the male. a certain period in the year. i certain smell or feel the dog may have, sets it off. it is muscularly structured to tear apart.

told sons the other day, pit tearing at you, or our tondra, beagle mix. i would rather take on a beagle mix personally

[Balbus]

96. Actually, a Pit is innately non-aggressive to humans.

If they're aggressive to humans it's because another human trained them to be that way.

[seabeyond]

103. bullshit

that is just total bullshit

[IrateCitizen]

115. No, it's absolutely true.

If you would have bothered to do the "research" on the breed you are so ready to call others out for NOT doing, you would have known that already.

A Pit Bull's primary aggressive tendencies are toward OTHER DOGS, not humans. Pit Bulls actually serve quite poorly as guard dogs, because they are more likely to greet an intruder than attack him. Human-aggressive behavior in pit bulls is something that has to be encouraged, it is not a natural behavior of the breed.

[seabeyond]

127. this is a pro pit article

Pit bulls, like most terriers, are extremely tenacious and stubborn. They easily become highly aroused and, when in such an agitated state, often have little control over their behavior if they have not been taught to inhibit their impulses. Hence, pit bulls have a reputation for being more "mouthy" and bite harder in play than other breeds. They are also relatively impervious to pain.

Back to top

The Pit Bull's Bad Reputation
Sadly, the pit bull has acquired a reputation as unpredictable, dangerous, and vicious. Their intimidating appearance has made them attractive to the wrong sorts of owner. These people are looking for a macho dog and, intentionally or otherwise, end up encouraging aggressive behavior. Pit bull popularity means that unscrupulous and uncaring breeders produce puppies without maintaining their typical reliability with people. In fact, pit bulls are now notorious for redirecting aggression from a dog to people attempting to break up a fight. And finally, if a pit bull does bite a person, the dog is far more likely to inflict serious injuries than most other breeds, simply because of the size and strength of their jaws.

Having said all that, a well-bred, well-socialized, and well-trained pit bull i

[Sparkman]

77. Is it legal to keep spoiled rich kids from Texas, as pets I mean? What if

If you shoot a gun in the air, and the round comes down an accidentally wounds or kills an animal or person, your guilty of neglegence. If you drive drunk and kill or injure someone your also are guilty of neglegence, and can go to jail. Mishandling an animal or object that results in a trajedy needs to be handled by criminal law and should expose the guilty party to legal action. Pit bull terriers can climb chain link fences 6 ft tall (I have personally observed it) and CAN threaten life. Like any large dog, they can dig under fences and are expert at escape and at stalking, it's instinctive and natural. Like wolves & coyotes, this breed has a history of attacking and killing other animals and children and vulnerable adults. Unlike coyotes or wolves, people can legally bring pit bull terriers into neighborhoods, shouldn't there be special requirements for containing the most dangerous pets. There are a set of regulations and restrictions for keeping wild animals by individuals or zoos. The difference is the importance of the property rights that we give our citizens, to own and sell commercially, almost any thing that we desire to possess. It would seem that the problem stems from the greed that people have. The animal lovers will disagree, because they love their pit bulls.

[Spinzonner]

40. There are no bad atom bombs, just irresponsible owners

That fact is that statistically, some breeds are closer to the edge temperamentally and entice certain kinds of potentially irresponsible owners because of their reputation and power.

And when they do go off, they are more dangerous because of their power, endurance, and aggressiveness.

So having such power IS a greater risk.

[Dorian Gray]

75. My mom's Shih-tzu

bit me once.

[AngryAmish]

104. That is so wrong

There are bad people. Sociopaths, etc. I met them, they have come from nice families and are evil. People and dogs can just be mean.

[benburch]

8. On this I have to disagree!

I had a Malemute; Every bit as dangerous!

We had two Dobermans. Also every bit as dangerous!

ANY large powerful dog can be dangerous IF you do not train them right and abuse them, and that is what pit bull owners are doing.

I work as a volunteer at an animal shelter, and we take in a LOT of pit bulls. And many of them are very sweet creatures. Some, however have been abused by their owners to MAKE them mean. That is the problem. I really don't think a pit who has been properly trained and treated with kindness is a killer.

[funkybutt]

15. Exactly

I've met many sweet pit bulls. If we were to ban pitbulls, the unscrupulous individual who currently abuse this breed and MAKE them mean will just choose another tough looking breed to take it's place.

Really wouldnt fix the problem at all...which is the people who own/breed them for fighting. We have a HUGE problem with pit bull fighting down here and I think the REAL issue is that when these people are caught, the NEVER face real jail time!

[Sewsojm]

32. I agree

Pit bulls will attack for no reason, just a few months ago an 82yr. old lady was walking her dog when 3 pit bulls attacked and killed the woman and her dog.

[earth mom]

130. I don't get that explaination.

How does an owner totally abuse their dog without getting mauled and or killed by their own dog in the first place?

People are in DENIAL about these dangerous so called "pets" and won't admit that they love a creature that is pretty much a wild animal-not a pet. They don't care that these so called "pets" are a menace to society just as long as they can have their cute little pet. :eyes: Pretty selfish and self centered in my book.

I think Pit Bulls should be banned. I'm a dog lover, but I wouldn't and couldn't legally bring a bear, or a tiger or a wolf into my home or neighborhood and pass it off as a pet. Why should people be allowed a dog that has all the characteristics of a wild animal? Sorry, but that's just INSANE!

[RebelOne]

17. Pit bulls are banned in many parts of the country. n/t

[xultar]

18. Pit Bulls are sweet dogs. It is their owners who make them attack dogs.

I despise anyone who blames the dogs and not the owners. I've met penty of pits who are sweet. Why blame the entire race/breed of dogs for the actions of a few? :grr:

Let's ban white folks cuz they kill and molest.

Let's ban black folks cuz they kill and molest.



Hey let's ban all humans. I'm sure the world would be a much better place left to the animals anywaze. They were here first.

[undeterred]

19. My dog was attacked by a neighbor's German Shepherd.

I had him on a leash and was standing in front of my house when this dog (which was being walked by children who could not control him) landed on my ten year old dog's rear end and tore an inch deep wound with his canine. My next door neighbor has a GS which barks and whines incessantly. The last place I lived there were 3 GS that barked all day long.

Can we ban this breed instead?

[seabeyond]

22. i have two pits at the house at my driveway

the kids often play down at our rock garden, right by the driveway of these owners. recently one pitbull attacked a neigbors rotweiller and caused a lot of damage. that owner told the other owner......you may be a crazy son of a bitch, but i am just as crazy and have more guns than you. i see it, i shoot it.

the other day it got out again, colt says, pit is out. joel holds up his ak47......as my son and i watch from the kitchen window. i had already called him in from side yard. saw the pit.

fuckin welcome to my neighborhood with my 7 and 10 year olds. but then, my children should know to stand like a tree when this dog squares off. and certainly not be afraid cause the dog can smell fear.

fuck that shit

i am with you mopaul. the stupidity of the right to own this breed, versus a childs right not to be chewed up by one,

we are going to have this shit all summer long. personally i am rootin for joel to shoot it. sooner, better for me

anyone have problems with that one?

[IrateCitizen]

36. Doesn't your neighborhood have a leash ordinance???

I'm sorry, seabeyond, but the source of this problem is not a particular dog breed, but a completely irresponsible owner. The fact that he owns pit bulls and leaves them outside is inexcusable.

My wife and I own a pit bull that we rescued, and we would NEVER have him outside off of a leash, except for directly supervised play in our backyard. Hell, we'd never have our lab mix off the leash like that either.

As a responsible owner of an extremely friendly, playful and affectionate pit bull -- along with a lab mix having the same traits -- I take exception to your comment regarding "the stupidity to own this breed". There is no stupidity in owning a pit bull -- the stupidity lies in not recognizing the controls that your dog needs to be happy, healthy and well-adjusted. You're taking a problem of the owner, and blaming it on the dog.

[seabeyond]

43. do research of the pit it is out there

and it isnt wrapped in emotion. and of course it is a f*in irresponsible neighbor, with an aggressive, male, strong, pit.

hence the problem

[IrateCitizen]

50. I own a pit bull, and trust me, I've done the research...

We had our little guy fixed at 5 months old, so that he wouldn't develop aggressive tendencies. And he hasn't.

I would bet that, having rescued a pit bull, I've done more research on them than you have. Then again, I strive to be a responsible owner and raise a well-adjusted, well-trained affectionate dog.

You hit the nail on the head that the problem is an irresponsible owner. And you never answered my question about the leash ordinance. I would tend to think that repeated complaints could result in action being taken against the owner, the REAL source of this problem.

[seabeyond]

74. irate, i am a bit irate....that my children are so threatened

and not a sole on here has had compassion for hte threat to children, only a defense of this breed, but wtf......

find it ironic, i am not allowed to raise my tone to child cause abusive and will scar him for life, but let him live with these animals. whatever

a leash would be good. i go to park, and just yell out, dog friendly, cause it is running after kids and i. not a sole seems to feel a responsibility to leash dog, but then that is a whole nother story

3 rotweillers, took 2 years of anial shelter to pick up animals, fine neighbor enough for the 3 rotweillers to go away. a year later, we start it all over again. so ya. leash law does a lot of good

[IrateCitizen]

89. So what agitating did you engage in to get this problem addressed?

I am assuming that there are others on your block who feel the same about this neighbor. So, did you regularly send a representative or two to town meetings to agitate the government into enforcing their ordinances? Did you contact local media to get them to do a story on this to spur action? Or did you sit in your homes and complain about the situation, only calling the animal control?

I'm only asking because it seems to me that nobody involved in town politics would want such a situation continuing -- and resulting in an injury to a child -- because of the bad press that could result.

[seabeyond]

97. 7 years of cops, swat team, animal control, health inspectors

council, dea, ................

and there they sit.

but ...... i am not going to take the time to explain 7 years of experience with you

i shouldnt need to

good arguement though, in all your agenda gotta win attitude

[IrateCitizen]

109. Nice broad stroke at the end there, seabeyond...

You know why I'm arguing against the likes of you on this thread? Because my wife and I own a pit bull. And we didn't get him because of the breed -- we rescued him because he needed a home. He was the runt of a litter, mauled by his mother, starved nearly to the point of death -- and we adopted him from our vet who saved him.

He is a member of our family now. We are raising him to be affectionate, playful, well-behaved and well-adjusted. And so far, it is working in spades.

We don't do anything to encourage aggressiveness of any type, don't place him in situations where he is likely to be provoked into bad behavior, always keep him on a leash, and treat him with lots of love at all times. The result is that we have a very good dog who is extremely friendly.

So, from my perspective and my personal experience, I'll be damned if somebody is going to come and take away our dog, who we have raised responsibly at all times, because there are other owners who are completely irresponsible. And don't even try and make this into an argument similar to those who argue against gun control. A gun is an inanimate object -- I LOVE my dog, and would never give him up without a fight so long as he is well-trained and well-behaved.

[mopaul]

129. yet, if i shot your dog for attacking my kid, "I'D" go to jail

[seabeyond]

136. i know why you are defending your animal

of course i know this.

it is for me the same as defending a religion you love

or defending an issue you love

you are willing to overlook, excuse justify, in order to win. that is when i stop discussion

of course you love your dog. my brother a couple weeks ago bought a little pit. now about 8 weeks old. i have my hcildren loving on that thing, so it gets to know the boys. and i hope my brother does right in creating a family dog. he wont do the training. but he does love the animals

i am sucking it up dude, and it is my children that are at risk, and it is your right to own this breed. k. you won

[AngryAmish]

107. Rat poison and hamburger

[Modem Butterfly]

110. Wow. A true psychopath and it's not even noon yet.

[smbolisnch]

114. You are sick.

:mad:

[seabeyond]

actually made me stop and think for a moment

but then i have never hurt a thing in my life. and i dont feel i have the right to do that. not to mention, they would probably think it was me, or worse my neighbor that had more guns than the other. cant really afford a shoot out either with kids in between the two.

but.......

thanks for at least the different attitude of a parent protecting child. of there at least, being an problem with this

thanks for the humor, wink

[smbolisnch]

118. Oh yes that was just hysterical.

wink

:sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

121. I was serious as a heart attack

You have a lunitic neighbor who is letting a dangerous animal loose where the dog could kill or maul your child. Children are more important than dogs. Your children especially. So, buy some hanburger and buy rat poison a few towns over. Put the balls in your neighbors yard under a bush late at night. Your crazy neighbor may suspect you but he can't prove anything.

[Modem Butterfly]

124. And when the dog you poison pukes blood and convulses...

...all over the ground in front of your children, you can stand there and laugh and plan your next escapade while your neighbor buries his dog and buys another one, his neglectful ways utterly unchanged.

[AngryAmish]

I grew up in a neighborhood with a psycho dog

Attacked me a bunch of times. We could not use our back yard when it was out. I would have had a better childhood if that dog was killed. Let me repeat, children are more important than dogs.

[mopaul]

right on

if the neighbor has a pit bull or a lion, it's justified.

KIDS OUTWEIGH DOGS IN VALUE for christ's sake.

[Moderator]

137. Locking

This is turning into a pointless flame-war

[mopaul]

131. if a dog attacks your kid, it's justice plain and simple

[IrateCitizen]

23. Pit bulls are more dog-aggressive than person-aggressive...

My wife and I own a pit bull -- one that we rescued after he was mauled by his mother (he was the runt of the litter). He is one of the sweetest, most affectionate, most playful dogs I have ever had the pleasure of being around.

However, we are also well aware of the pitfalls of having a pit bull. We are fully training him through obedience classes, and we always are sure to monitor him around other dogs and people.

Pit bulls are no more nor less naturally prone to attacking people than any other breed. In fact, I have found the pit bulls I have encountered in my life to be much more friendly as a whole than other breeds. While I was growing up, my friend had a cocker spaniel that would bite you if you even attempted to pet him -- yet, I'm not calling for a ban on cocker spaniels.

Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, an attack by a dog is attributable to human behavior. Banning one breed of dog will never solve it. As a responsible owner of a well-adjusted and friendly pit bull, I have to tell you that if you wanted to ban MY dog (who I consider a part of our family), you would have to forcibly take him from my home and hope you don't get hurt (by my wife and me, not our dogs) in the process.

[Walt Starr]

24. I am working to get them banned in my city

in a rural setting, no problems. In a city, big problems.

[Modem Butterfly]

27. What a waste of energy

[Walt Starr]

29. Have you ever seen a victim of a pit bull mauling?

Not a waste.

I can accept them being owned within the city limits on oine condition and one condition only. Mandatory spaying or neutering with no exceptions whatsoever.

[Modem Butterfly]

34. Ending pit bulls won't end the problem

You could kill them all and the people who insist on creating fighting dogs will just move on to another breed. All you're doing is giving them cover.

[Walt Starr]

38. Pit bulls are bred to be killers

Keeping the breed out of urban areas will redfuce the problemn regardless of the bullshit spewed by the pit bull apologists.

[Modem Butterfly]

44. By some people, not by most

And newsflash, dogs need training even for functions for which they've been bred. Collies don't naturally herd sheep, Huskies don't naturally pull sleds, and even Pitbulls don't naturally kill.

[Walt Starr]

47. Pit bulls naturally have powerful jaws

and even a playful "nip" will result in a serious wound.

[Modem Butterfly]

49. More horseshit (dogshit?)

All terriers have powerful jaws and any large dog will do more damage than a smaller dog.

[Walt Starr]

53. The jaws of a terrier

are nowehere near as powerful as the jaws of a pit bull.

[IrateCitizen]

54. A pit bull is a terrier, Walt...

That's the reason that the breed is called the Pit Bull Terrier. They're part of the same sub-family as Jack Russells and Westies.

[Walt Starr]

Jack Russels and Westies

and all other terriers have nowehre near as powerful jaws as pit bulls. Sorry if you don't like it, but the breed is dangerous and should be banned.

[IrateCitizen]

65. You've obviously spent little time around Jack Russells...

Their jaws are just as strong, size-relative, to pit bulls. And they can be just as vicious toward other dogs as well. In fact, Jack Russells can be much more instigative with other dogs than pit bulls. The danger with a pit bull is not that it will start a fight -- but rather that another dog will act aggressively toward it and the pit bull will finish the fight.

And for the record, I grew up with Jack Russell terriers and currently own a pit bull. What is your direct experience with these breeds again?

[Walt Starr]

70. I got you to admit it!

Keywords "size relative"

:eyes:

[IrateCitizen]

81. That's because I deal in facts, not hysteria like you, Walt.

You'll easily get me to admit that pit bulls have extremely strong jaws, because that is a FACT.

You'll also get me to admit that someone who is a recipient of a pit bull attack is more likely to get hurt than someone who is a recipient of a Yorkie attack, simply due to the physical characteristics of the breed. However, what YOU fail to admit is that those smaller breeds are actually MORE LIKELY to attack people than pit bulls. Furthermore, the argument about physical characteristics extends to the likes of great danes, mastiffs, Irish wolfhounds, St. Bernards, and so on -- are you going to have these breeds outlawed too?

Because I deal in facts regarding this -- primarily because I have spent my entire life with dogs -- I recognize that the greatest problem is not the dogs themselves, but irresponsible owners. However, you have chosen to deal in emotional hysteria on this, which is why you blame it all on the breeds themselves.

[Walt Starr]

93. The problem with your argument is this

YOU fail to admit that "more likely to attack" does not equate" more likely to maul or kill".

Fewer pit bull attacks does not alter the fact that a pit bull is more likely to kill than a yorkie.

Like majny others on DU, you fail to realize that statistics usually have very little to do with reality.

[Modem Butterfly]

120. Well by that logic, a Lab is dangerous

After all, they're more likely to kill than a Yorkie.

[IrateCitizen]

Not to mention a Great Dane of St. Bernard...

In fact, I've heard of more instances of Great Danes mauling children in the home than Pit Bulls -- and there are far more of the latter than the former out there.

Of course, Walt can just add Great Danes to the list of "dogs to be banned" as his solution. When he's done, we'll be left with only Yorkshire Terriers and Toy Poodles as legal dogs....

[Walt Starr]

61. Jack Russels and Westies

and all other terriers have nowehre near as powerful jaws as pit bulls. Sorry if you don't like it, but the breed is dangerous and should be banned.

[Modem Butterfly]

122. There's no accurate way of measuring how powerful...

...a dog's jaws are. That's just more unfounded rumor and urban legend.

[MadHound]

98. Walt, I owned a pit for a number of years

And would play with it all of the time. I recieved many "playful nips", up to the point where my dog would be playing a gentle game of tug with my arm. Not only did I not get a serious wound, my skin was never even broken.

Yes, pits have powerful jaws, yes, their jaws can lock so that the dog can hold on more effectively. But it takes a concious effort on the part of the dog to do this, like any other dog. In fact, for some pits that have been bred wrong, locking the jaw causes them severe pain, and they simply won't do it.

Stop spreading false information and innuendo. If you don't like the dog breed fine, but don't go making shit up just to scare the public.

[IrateCitizen]

46. Pit bulls were bred to be fighting dogs, that is true...

However, the flip side of that (and one EVERYBODY clamoring for a pit bull ban seems to miss) is that pit bulls, because they were bred for fighting other dogs, were also bred specifically NOT to attack humans. In fact, a rottweiler or doberman pinscher or any other classic "guard dog" is much more likely to attack a person than a pit bull. Any educated pit bull owner (of which I am one) will tell you that their breed makes extremely POOR guard dogs, because they're more likely to jump on and lick an intruder than to scare him off.

Sure, there are plenty of instances in which pit bulls HAVE attacked humans, but that is actually NOT one of the main tendencies of the breed. The reason that there are pit bull attacks is that complete ignorant jackasses get them as pets without knowing a damned thing about how to take care of or train them, and the dog ends up without having any controls on its behavior.

The problem, once again, is the OWNERS, not the dog breed itself.

[Walt Starr]

51. I disagree completely

and will continue to work to have the breed banned from my city.

[Modem Butterfly]

55. And then you can work on Rottweilers when the Pitbulls are gone

And once the Rottweilers are gone, you can work on GSDs. And when the GSDs are gone, you can work on Chows. And when the Chows are gone...

Why not just cut out the middle man and ban all dogs from your town entirely? Then you might have a chance in getting rid of the bad dog owners who are the real root of the problem.

[Walt Starr]

57. Rotts are a dangerous breed as well

Sorry, but environement does not determine this shit 100%. Breeding is a huge factor.

[Modem Butterfly]

59. Oh lordy, I've created a monster!

:eyes:

[Walt Starr]

62. Sorry if you don't like it, but dangerous dog breeds should be banned

in urban areas.

If you want dogs this dangerous, move to the country where you will most likely not be responsible for the horrible mauling of an innocent child.

[Modem Butterfly]

66. All dog breeds are dangerous, Walt

And come to think of it, so are all cat breeds (Cat Scratch Fever isn't just a song you know).

What a bizarre and sad Quixotic quest you're on.

[Walt Starr]

69. Oh yeah, theat Chihuahua down the street is so damned dangerous

Nearly as dangerous as that Pug the next street over.

:eyes:

[Modem Butterfly]

76. Statistically speaking, small dogs bite more often

If you're concerned about stopping dogs that bite, you should go after the small dogs, after all, they bite most often. But it's more about allaying the fears of Walt Starr rather than protecting people from dog bites, isn't it? That's the real reason you're going after a specific breed rather than the people who make dangerous dogs of all breeds.

[Walt Starr]

80. Have you ever been bitten by a pug?

A mosquito dopes more damage.

:eyes:

[Modem Butterfly]

85. My brother has a permanent limp caused by a small poodle

He was bitten in the leg and it caused a nasty infection. He lost some of the mobility in his knee due to it.

You know, just because you're ignorant about a topic doesn't change reality, Walt.

[Walt Starr]

90. Sorry, I'm not ignorant about this topic

qPit bulls are dangerous animals and should no more be in an urban setting than any other dangerous animal.

Pythons, bobcats, boa constrictors, and otehr dangerous animals are banned in my city. Pit Bulls should be, too.

You brother's linmp was caused by an infection by your own admission. He wasn't mauled and lost part of his leg muscles.

[smbolisnch]

94. Why don't you focus that energy on getting weapons banned?

Seems like if you have so much time to spend on getting things banned you ought to focus it on something that is a real threat to "your city".

[Walt Starr]

117. Nope, I need my gun

to shoot the pit bull when it jumps my fence.

Of course, it'll probably take four or five shots from my .45 caliber automatic if the pit bull does jump the fence.

[smbolisnch]

119. Uh huh.

Paranoia is a terrible thing.
:rofl:

[Walt Starr]

123. Not paranoia

There is a pit bull that lives next door to me. My wife walks into our back yard and this animal growls at her. The family that owns the pit bull does not mistreat it. It's simply a viscious and dangerous animal.

Our HOA allows only four foot fences. It's not a question of "if" this amnimal will jump the fence and attack. It's a matter of "when" the animal will jump the fence and attack.

When that happens, I will kill the animal and sue the neighbors and the HOA.

[smbolisnch]

132. My beagle mix growls too. Since when did growling mean vicious?

My friend has a 4 year old Pit who is the most loving, affectionate dog. She also growls. All dogs do. Should I classify her as a vicious and dangerous animal?

Give me a break, Walt. Your arguments are flimsy, at best. For some reason you are on a mission to "outlaw" a breed that has been repeatedly broad brushed by people like you, giving them a bad name.

[Walt Starr]

138. You are not in the situation I am

and have no clue.

soprry, but this dog WILL jump the fence and attack. It is simply a matter of time. when it happens, the dog will have its head blown off. Count on it.

[Modem Butterfly]

128. Real big man. So brave when it comes to an animal

So powerless when it comes to confronting the animal's owner.

[Walt Starr]

133. The animal's owner does not mistreat the animal

but I WILL blow the animal's head off the instant it jumps the fence. And it will do it. It's just a matter of time.

[Modem Butterfly]

102. Oh, well, that makes it all better then, doesn't it, Walt?

Small dogs that bite aren't dangerous, it's just the infections their bites cause that are dangerous. Right.

There are none so blind as they that will not see. Fortunately you wear your ignorance on your sleeve for the world to see. Which is probably why your city hasn't banned Pitbulls.

[Walt Starr]

116. Infections are the fault of the person infected

You only get infected from a wound if youdon't take care of it.

Sorry, no compassion on that one.

[Modem Butterfly]

125. And most dog bites are the fault of the dog owner

You only get bitten by dogs that are mistreated or neglected in some way.

[Walt Starr]

126. Except for dog biutes that are a result of the breeding

and pit bulls are bred to kill.

[Modem Butterfly]

134. Which is a strong argument to go after the breeders, not the dogs

But you know that, and yet you persist going after the dogs. I say again, what a waste of energy.

[IrateCitizen]

58. Yes, it's much easier to stick with emotional hysteria...

... than to actually become informed on the subject.

Well, good luck with your quest anyway -- I just wouldn't expect too much to come of it, unless everyone else in your town is as misinformed about pit bulls as you are, Walt.

Perhaps while you're busy in such an endeavor, I'll start a campaign to ban the suburbs.... :shrug:

[Walt Starr]

64. My city would not be the first to ban pit bulls

nor would it be the last.

[Balbus]

83. delete - wrong place

[Balbus]

86. You can disagree but that doesn't make you any less wrong...

Pit Bulls were bred to be non-aggressive to humans. If a Pit Bull attacks a human for any reason it was because it has been taught to do so by another human.

[IrateCitizen]

39. Spaying and neutering in city limits should be required for all dogs...

... not just pit bulls. Dog overpopulation is a huge problem -- that's why so many otherwise good animals end up being destroyed as a matter of course.

[Walt Starr]

41. I think it should be required for all cats and dogs

and would support such an ordinace. It would also reduce a lot of the pit bull attacks because most attacks will also have a female dog in heat either in the home of the dog that attacks or is the dog that attacks.

[tuvor]

25. Don't ban the dogs. Ban the owners from having dogs in the first place.

Dachshunds have been recorded as killing people. You just can't ensure anything by singling out a breed or two.

Blame lousy owners, and make them accountable.

[tnlefty]

28. Is your dog okay? I have a long list of dog breeds that I don't

particularly care for, but in the end I do think that irresponsible owners are a large part of the problem. I thought that when insurance companies began raising premium rates for homeowners who have certain breeds, ownership of these breeds would decrease.

[mopaul]

35. long gone. every other kind of dog wandered by without attacking him

it was the only dog attack he was ever in, unprovoked, fenced in yard. neighborhood was full of stray dogs, only the pit bulls attacked my dog.

[sweetheart]

42. There are so many other breeds, there is no need for a murder dog

I agree with you mopaul. As a libertarian, however, i think that anyone
who sees a pit bull threatening should have the right to shoot it,
as much as where i live, anyone who sees a "dog" threatening livestock
has the right to shoot it.

There is this tendency for some persons to own dogs for "security" and
not really as pets. I don't buy this logic, as an attack dog is a
dangerous animal, be it a german shepard, rottie or pit bull... all of
them are dangerous if trained to be attack dogs.

I mean, if you rig a shot gun behind your front door to kill intruders,
you'll be taken to court, but if you have an uncontrolled animal in your
yard that kills a kid, that's ok, because its a dog, and not a gun.

I would favour an animal control officer who visits a neighborhood and
walks up to the front door of all houses. If they are molested by a dog
during this process (read: attacked), then the dog owner is warned and
if already warned, dog taken away. That said, one of my dogs "LOVES"
visitors, and will come and jump up to greet them with a happy wagggy
tail... and some people mistake a happy dog for an agressive dog, but
fortunately this is not a city.

[MadHound]

45. You pit haters just don't get it, do you?

The breeding of the dog has very, very little to do with whether or not a dog is vicious, it is how the dog is raised and handled. Give me any dog, from a poodle to a great dane, and I can make that dog over into a vicious attack machine. Pits right now happen to be the flavor of the decade for those who want vicious dogs. During the eighties, it was Dobermans, during the sixties and seventies, it was German Shepards. And yes, members of both of the dog species were vicious at the time, because there were assholes out there who raised them to be mean and vicious.

I was raised, from birth, with a pair of German Shepard, during the height of Shepard hysteria(same as pit hysteria, just a different breed), and both of these dogs were patient, loving, and great with the small kids in the neighborhood. In fact my Mom still has a picture she likes to drag out of me in my diaper and cowboy hat, sitting on our shepard, pulling her ears and feeding her crackers, while the dog has a look of long suffering on her face.

In fact, back during the first half of the twentieth century, pit bulls were considered the ideal dog to have around children, praised for their intelligence, loyalty, and gentle disposition. Take a close look at what breed of dog accompanies the Little Rascals everywhere. Twenty years ago, at the start of Pit Bull hysteria, I owned a pit. I raised him like I would any other dog of mine, to be gentle, loyal, and non-aggressive. I would let my friend's children play with him with no fear. These kids, aged 3 and 5 at the time, would roll around with my dog, hug him, pull his tail, romp and play with him, and my dog was gentle and calm, and never was vicious.

Do you realize what these people who want a vicious pit have to do in order to achieve such an outcome? They beat the dog, attack him, play games of keep-away with raw meat, reward it when the dog exhibits aggressiveness, have it attack humans in padded clothing, in short, they brainwash the dog, and thus turn it into a vicious, almost uncontrollable beast. Humans are also raised and brainwashed into becoming vicious beasts, who arguable kill more humans than any pit bull. Should we kill all of the humans also, just so the rest of society doesn't have to deal with the vicious, brainwashed few?

I suggest that you get over this irrational bias of yours. Go out and find your friends and neighbors who haven't raised their pits to be vicious. Get to know a few, note how gentle, intelligent and loyal they are. Who knows, maybe you'll want to get a pit yourself then.

By the by, you say you've seen the evidence of the viciousness of pit bulls, well, statistics state that the dogs most likely to bite are the small breeds, poodles and cockers. Granted, large breeds cause more fatalities, but that is simply a matter of their size, not their breed. And even small dogs, if raised improperly, will cause death, for example:

"The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)"

I've got a scar on my little finger from a dog bite. The breed, a dachsund. And you know what, it was my fault, for the dog was strange to me, in a stessed situation(a vet kennel where I worked), and I approached the dog wrong for the situation.

Rather than blaming an entire breed, put the blame where it truly belongs, the owner who decided to raise a vicious dog and unleash it on the world.

[Modem Butterfly]

52. Well-said

[King Coal]

67. It was not well-said. Pit Bulls are a bad breed.

Their brains outgrow their skulls and they become vicious as a result.

[IrateCitizen]

72. That's Dobermans, not Pit Bulls (nt)

[smbolisnch]

73. Do you have a source to verify that?

That's one I have never heard.

[King Coal]

92. Yes, I do. Dave Wilson.

[smbolisnch]

95. Hey, I know him!

I didn't think so. :eyes:

[King Coal]

111. Hey! Dave doesn't lie.

[Modem Butterfly]

113. Sure you do. He sells dirty playing cards after school...

...in the parking lot behind Caminy's Candy Shop.

[Modem Butterfly]

78. That's an urban legend about dobermans

[MadHound]

91. Do you believe every stupid urban legend you hear?

First off, that was being bandied about concerning Dobermans back in the eighties, not pits. Secondly, that has absolutely no basis in fact at all. If a brain, any brain starts outgrowing the skull surrounding it, what quickly results is dementia, then death, not a prolonged period of being vicious. I challenge you to provide any reputable source to back up that claim. I'm sure I'll be waiting for a long time.

[IdaBriggs]

56. I hate irresponsible owners. We work in rescue --

there is no such thing as a "bad" dog, but there are an unbelievable amount of STUPID people out there. We do "puppies" (88 total), and my "favorite" rejects is still the guy who decided he didn't want to housebreak a puppy because it was "too cold out" so he was going to teach it to sh*t in the basement. His wife didn't want a dog, but it was his house, so her opinion didn't count. Why couldn't he have the puppy RIGHT NOW?

:eyes:

Pits are great dogs FOR THE RIGHT OWNER. That means someone who is RESPONSIBLE, understands the breed and issues, doesn't leave it roaming around unsupervised, etc.

But you keep hating Pit Bulls; I'll stick to the SOBs who mistreat, abuse, neglect and abandon them instead. There's still plenty of room leftover for hating the Real Scum of B*sh & Co., too!

[Sparkle]

60. Just this past weekend, a pitbull mauled a little kid to death.

It seem like I hear this on the local news every week.

[IrateCitizen]

68. This past weekend, many more kids were killed by automobiles...

... yet I don't hear any of these suspects calling for the outlawing of automobiles due to those who use them irresponsibly.

[Sparkle]

88. True,

Sorry, I don't trust dogs (or some of their owners) period. My parents own a rothweiller (sp?), she's been a part of the family for ages. Yesterday I was holding my 1 1/2 year old nephew while outside and he was crying. Not because of the dog but because he wanted his mommy. Buffy started barking and lunged at me as if he was going to attack my little nephew. It scared the schit out of me. I don't trust dogs. None of them. It's like they snap or something.

[IrateCitizen]

99. So then your reason for agreeing is an irrational fear of dogs...

I don't trust dogs. None of them. It's like they snap or something.

Actually, it's usually pretty easy to tell when a dog is being aggravated, if you just pay attention to their body language. Dogs are not shy about expressing their mood, and are pretty easy to read.

But at least you have said why you're calling for their ban -- because you don't trust them, and they "snap".

[LoneDriver]

79. I've been bitten twice

Once by a Chow-Chow and one by a Chihuahua. My Am Staff on the other hand gets beat up by my cat. So screw your generalizations. Thats fascist, racist thinking when applied to people.

[smbolisnch]

84. Excellent point.

"Thats fascist, racist thinking when applied to people."
And welcome to DU :hi:

[tx_dem41]

82. Dang, Mopaul....you need to warn me about these threads next time...

Ok...who has the popcorn? Sorry, I'm late.

[Horse with no Name]

108. After working in a trauma unit in a Childrens Hospital

You would be SHOCKED to know of the injuries that Pit Bulls cause.
I have never understood though why they always attack the head and face of children but they do. Two stories--worst case scenarios--come to mind.
I've have seen a child that was scalped by a pit bull.
Of course the child "provoked" the dog that lived two houses down.
The dog was in their neighbors backyard tied up.
The child was playing in his yard with his grandmother on the porch.
The dog saw the child and broke his chain and jumped two fences and jumped on the child. The grandmother couldn't get him off of the child--she went to the house and got a gun.
She had to shoot the dog---while it was attached to the child--to get it's jaws released.
The entire scalp was gone--the only thing you could see on the top of the head was skull.
Then there was the worst thing I ever hope to see in my life. A 2- year old that was used for a chew toy. Bad family dynamics. Allegations of neglect, etc., but nobody will ever really know the terror that one child went through or how a dog was left to chew him like that or how long it took to shred every muscle off a child's face.
It happened in Oklahoma City. A child had his entire face, scalp and ears eaten off by a pit bull. He was taken to a hospital in OK City, where he was left for 2 days. They didn't expect him to live.
After two days when they realized he would (with horror), they flew him to us. He arrived at 3 in the morning. The surgeon on call stayed on our floor in a sleeping room. She met him in the Emergency Room when he arrived. When she came back to the floor, she was almost hysterical and was weeping and said she had never seen anything so horrible in her life (She was from a 3rd world country on top of that).
The doctors had no idea what they were going to do for this child.
All he had was a skull. They considered face transplants, but at that time it was a very ethical dilemma about doing that on a 2-yr old. After all--what parent would allow their dead child's face to be removed to be put on another child? Anyway, they had to opt for skin grafting--the first surgery took almost 50 hours with surgical teams being rotated in and out. They made prosthetic noses (3 to stage through his life) and attached them to his face that they made out of skin from his abdomen with high powered magnets. They made him lips, ears and eyelids.
Anyway--sparing all of the gory details, the child looked like a monster--he faces years and years of reconstructive surgery. Morally and ethically with what this child will have to face as he grows up I just am not entirely sure that saving him was the right thing to do, but I hope that in the end, the dozens of surgeries will at least make him look almost normal.
It would have broken your heart.
There are countless stories of what pit bulls do. You never have the labradors or collies, etc do this.
Even the rotties don't go for the face like the Pits do.
Even for the apologists out there for Pits--I have seen the family dog turn on the children. I would never ever ever ever ever leave a child around a Pit.
I don't care how friendly you think they are. Most of these situations--as in the last one described--were done by the family pet.
One of the things I was told why they do so much damage is that the way the Pit's jaw is structured, he has to bite completely down before he can release his mouth to open it again. Not sure of the truth in that since I have never had a Pit.

[Freedomfried]

112. PIT BULLS = Offical dog of the NRA

The "must have" dog of every slack-jawed yokel.
"Git him Clevis,rip that a-rabs ass off boy!

[Cats Against Frist]

135. Mopaul, I don't know that I've ever agreed with you more readily

...in theory. I lean libertarian, so I have a hard time with the actual government banning a dog breed -- if it were very local -- neighborhood by neighborhood, perhaps that would be OK.

But "murder dogs," IMHO, are dangerous, and the people who own them have some kind of psychological malfunction. People who bring them to street fairs should be kicked out of the fair. I HATE MURDER DOGS.

I don't really like animals in general, though, I believe that humans should leave them alone as much as possible, for the sake of the ecosystem. However, murder dogs make me cringe.