Here is a chilling report from one who has seen it before:

[lonestarnot]

Holocaust Survivor
Leaving US - Sees
What's Coming
By Joey Picador
Justice For None.com
5-27-5

One of our neighbors is moving. I've been in this neighborhood for
about six years now, but didn't really know them very well at all -
just waves and nods, mostly.

So I heard the moving van pull up this morning. When I got home this
evening I happened to spy my neighbor (he's like 85 years old - I
don't know exactly, but he's old, talks and moves very slowly)
standing on the sidewalk next to the van. I walked over and shook his
hand, and we started talking. I asked him where he was moving, and he
said, "Back to Germany."

I had been stationed in Germany for two years while in the military,
so I lit up, and commented about how beautiful the country was, and
inquired if he was going back because he missed it.

"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before."
He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with
his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after
atrocity, and no one was willing to say anything. He said the news
refused to question the government, and the ones who did were not in
the newspaper business much longer. He said good neighbors, people he
had known all his life, turned against his family and other Jews,
grabbing on to the hate and superiority "as if they were starved for
it" (his words).

He said he was too old to see it happen right in front of his eyes
again, and too old to do anything about it, so he was taking his
family back to Europe on Thursday where they would be safe from
George W. Bush and his neocons. He seemed resolute, but troubled,
nonetheless, as if being too young on one end and too old on the
other to fight what he saw happening was wearing on him.

I gotta tell you - it was chilling. I let him talk, and the whole
time, my gut was churning, like I had mutated butterflies in my
stomach. When he was finished, he shook my hand, gripping it really
hard, until his knuckles turned white and he was shaking. He looked
me in the eyes, hard, and said, "I will pray for your family and your
country." He let go of my hand and hobbled away.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a
cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate
the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent
on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the
fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's
seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi
horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the
underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work
for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all
Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.

http://www.justicefornone.com

[Stand and Fight]

1. Truth to Power.

Yet there will be those -- even here -- who will decry to the last that you cannot make the comparison. This is yet another example that the comparison is not only fair but frightening.

[Dhalgren]

2. Kick!

That is truly a scary tale. I started to say how I felt sorry for the old man...but I think I feel more sorry for our country. Thanks for sharing. I feel the "mutated butterflies", too...

[libhill]

37. I feel sorry for both

the old gentleman, and the American people, because we have allowed this shit to happen.

[applegrove]

3. I've seen this story (an old German getting scared of Bush) in about

3 different ways these last few days. 3 different Germans. What is going on? Hadn't heard that anecdote type before yesterday really.

Is this propaganda?

Can't we just use the GD truth to get our message out?

Don't know - but I think it is a dupe.

[UdoKier]

6. I agree, it sounds apocryphal

Although it certainly is effective and the point it makes is true, I find it hard to believe that someone of that age would be so in touch with what's going on, or that someone with those experiences would be so scared at this early stage of the nightmare to want to leave.

But I could be wrong...

[applegrove]

8. Oh - I'd believe one case of it. I'd even believe three cases of it.

But not three different cases of German's getting scared of Bush in one day. Nope - popping up all of a sudden as a story.

Don't buy that.

I am sure that anyone who was alive in Hitler's time and finds them self living under Bush knows the similarities and differences very well. I am sure they are uncomfortable. And most people are completely cool well into the 80s. No reason why the above event could not have happened yesterday. But three of them? And finding themselves in the news-cycle all at the same time.

No - sorry.

[UdoKier]

11. Not that I think they are "out of it"

I'm just thinking that a person in his/her 80s would be very unlikely to be getting a lot of news off the 'net, and would probably get most of his/her news from corporate media. Taken at face value, and with the fact that it's being consumed as a second language, most people of this age would probably think everything is hunky-dory, just as a lot of my older relatives do.

Unless the people in question are very politically active and real a lot of alternative press, which is altogether possible.

I just think the story sounds a little to pat, catered to serve a political goal, and not very individualized.

Don't get me wrong - I'm in the process of getting ready to move my family OUT of this country. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. But my story isn't as compelling as that of one who has survived the camps...

[applegrove]

12. Wrong you are. The people would not need the net or any other opinion

to see the pattern. A pattern is a pattern. It is huge and repetitive. You recognize it because you have lived it. And because you have lived it you don't have to go on the journey that some need to before they understand. You see it for what it is. You have the perspective that so many (freepers) lack. At first it would be a few things that remind you of what you went through before. And then it would just keep adding up into a pattern with 200 points that match. And then it would be 400. And then 600. And long before 600 - you acknowledge that the pattern is back with different characters in the lead roles and perhaps some variations. And there it is. And if it was my country - and I was not buffered from the USA as I am, I might be sort emotionally pained (actually afraid) that I would have to move too.

There is no doubt much pain at the bottom of some Germans. The ones that lived through the war and all. You learn that some things you just don't put up with as a human being. And that you don't have to. And that nothing is more important than being with good human beings and freedom from absolutely being controlled by talented & manipulative 'monsters'. And that you don't want to be near the people who buy into it at all. Because you know that there is no humanity in that. Only death to the soul.

[libhill]

40. You're lucky

I wish I had the means to get the hell out of here. I'd relocate to Europe in a heartbeat. I'm afraid things are going to get alot worse, before they get any better. And I'm fed up with this neocon, theocratic, fascistic shit.

[nonconformist]

42. Relying on the Internet for the news isn't the only way to see

My 75 yr old paralyzed (stroke) amputee (right leg) Koren vet grandfather knows what's what in this country, and he has never been on the internet in his life. And it's not because I tell him what's going on (he's 2 states away and I only see him a couple of times a year) but that the writing is very clearly on the wall for anyone TO see.

I'm not saying this particular story is true, I have no way of knowing that, but what I can attest to is you don't have to be a textbook "progressive" with internet savvy to know this country is going to shit, not by far. I personally don't know ANYONE over the age of 60 that doesn't deplore Bush.

[TahitiNut]

13. "I find it hard to believe that someone of that age ..." ????

I find it hard to believe anyone doesn't know plenty of alert and well-informed octagenarians. My aunt and uncle, both in their mid-80's, even without the Internet(s), read the New York Times, the Arizona Republic, Mother Jones, the Progressive, and Nation magazine (among others) are are very well-attuned to events taking place in theis country and in this world. Both, who lived throough the Great Depression and WW2, regard the Bushoilini Regime as Fascist ... and this despite living in Arizona for the last 20+ years - not exactly the most awash in unbiased media information.

[UdoKier]

15. Nothing to do with alertness.

And octagenarians reading Mother Jones are pretty few and far between, esp. German Immigrants.

Look, it's entirely possible, but it doesn't feel true, esp. since there is NOTHING to individualize this story beyond a "generic" concentration camp survivor.

I know more about your aunt & uncle from your post than I do about this "german" in the story.

I take it as a parable. It's one with a valid message, so it doesn't really matter if it's factual or not.

[Tsiyu]

17. Yeah, that's what I was thinking

People in their 80's can be ( and often are) more informed than 20-year-olds. They use computers. They read.

i know that wasn't the point of this thread but I just wanted to speak up for old people. Many of them have their shit together and see what's going on.

[applegrove]

25. Oh - I agree. The octos I have known were mostly as with it as anyone.

As they were when they were when they were in their 90s. Unless they had some illness.

I don't think anyone who younger than 75 would have much memory of WWII (unless you were involved as a child). No surprise that Bird & Helen Thomas and the like are the ones who will not shut up.

I just find hearing 3 different versions of the story in 2 days too much. I'm sure every single octogenarian of German descent who is living anywhere in the world would know the ebb & flow of propaganda & militarism & patriotism. And would be very annoyed by how the WH uses it.

I just find it odd that such multiple stories have come out this week.

[lonestarnot]

44. Well thank you dearie!

[Horse with no Name]

19. I agree

My grandpa is 87 years old and mentally astute.
I have an aunt who is almost 89 and is a self-proclaimed news junkie.
They both hate Bush and they see the similarities.
Don't write off the age of folks as a reason not to believe what is happening.

[Canadian Socialist]

46. I don't think age is the sticking point here

I think it's the number of stories suddenly appearing. Agreed, the story is compelling... doesn't necessarily mean it's true. My parents are in their eighties and are very astute (politically) without the use of a computer. They simply use their reasoning skills. Of course, again, this is apocryphal. For all I know, they may be the only ones of their age group, in their area, who have bought a clue.

[spinbaby]

23. My mother says the same thing.

She grew up under the Nazis--was forced to work for Siemens during the war. She's not going back to Germany, though. She's holing up in a retirement community and trying to ignore it as best she can.

[applegrove]

32. Maybe there is a German/American site somewhere and they

all decided to put out their stories at the same time?

I believe individually. The timing still has me curious.

[JDPriestly]

27. My husband

grew up in WWII Austria. He, too, sees the chilling signs of a fascist takeover. Thank you DU for giving us a place to speak out against it.

[applegrove]

36. Okay - perhaps what is happening is that people are finally speaking out.

There is a door that has been opened lately. And yes - the Downing St. Memo would free up a whole bunch of people to put their mouths where their hearts are. And all the new people joining.

I was wrong. It makes perfect sense!

[lonestarnot]

45. Applegrove that's minutes...Downing Street Minutes...

[applegrove]

71. Minutes - memos - a piece of paper right! But what a piece of paper.

Undeniable. Let's hope the Iraqis can take over soon. And then the Americans can go and sit on those bases and be gone when the people of Iraq say it is time. So good that there is actually a paper trail to show what is in neocon hearts. And their perfect war plans failed and were inadequate. Now all that is left is for the propaganda to fail. It is the blind aggression which is scary when you have seen it before. Iraqi young people know this just like anyone who lived in Germany.

Now we just have to get them to do precedents on humanitarian causes or call them on their distaste for humanitarian war. And it looks like people are not too keen on the pass the buck that has taken place on Darfur regarding ICC. And now the papers in Darfur are doing with the propaganda. So the Bush/neocon meme has spread "you can create whatever myth you want". And now that propaganda can be judged outside of the US. I saw some UN official tear the face off the Sudanese propaganda in Sudan today. Perhaps the world will learn something from there. Though why it is up to the desperate in Darfur to teach the wealthy in the US lessons on justice & the truth - I don't know. What a back-assed world you end up with when the sociopaths get into power (or get a puppet).

[lonestarnot]

78. Indeed!

[SmokingJacket]

34. "Propaganda" might be the wrong word.

Urban legend, maybe?

I don't know any German immigrants at the moment; wish I did, because then I could ask them if this passes the smell test.

Can't tell, myself... so I'm not willing to make a judgement.

I DO know that the most radical people I know are 60+, so, who knows.

[Boomer]

90. Urban legend, maybe....

This particular story sounded a bit like an urban legend in tone and syntax, so I also am a bit skeptical about its origins.

But I've heard a similar story that is NOT a legend. A good friend of mine is a professor (in Texas, no less), and last year she told me about a national conference she had attended in the Northwest. She met an elderly German couple there, husband and wife academics, who expressed their fears about what they were witnessing in the U.S. It was a familiar pattern to them, a precursor to the rise of Nazism.

My friend described this encounter upon her return from the conference, and we discussed the chill that ran up her spine when she heard them say that. And we kept asking ourselves, "How do we stop this?"

[libhill]

38. So what if it is

propaganda? We have to fight fire with fire. And if lies and propaganda are the only thing that Repukes understand, then by God, start fighting by by their rules. I say spread this story all over the Internet, damn its provenance. And, if my attitude gets me banned from D.U., so be it. The Repukes have been relying on propaganda and lies from day one. Fuck 'em.

[applegrove]

76. We have the truth. Why follow them? So they can label us with

everything they have done?

We are better than that. And it doesn't pay. Why the propaganda is spreading to Sudan. Government there is using it to hide complicity in war crimes. To try and muck up the record. Because they know the courts are coming.

Let Bush & his propaganda machine aline themselves with all the liars of the world. That is where they belong!

IMHO

[lse7581011]

4. This Should Be On The Front Page Of Every Newspaper!

IMHO!

[Q3JR4]

5. Those are powerful words.

When do you think Americans will wake their collective asses up?

[aden_nak]

7. Probably right after the Lifetime Swearing In Ceremony.

[markus]

9. Calling Keith O and any other remaining MSM journalists

This is a tremendous story from any measure of "do we do/print/run this". But its so potentially explosive, I doubt it will see any MSM play.

[libhill]

41. If it were published

I'm sure that the publishing entity would be vilified by the Bushies, and ordered to issue a retraction/apology immediately. The free press in this country is as dead as the dodo bird.

[Mnemosyne]

10. This is chilling.

I'm sure this man and other holocaust survivors never dreamed they would see such things ever again.

Whatever it takes to stop this madness, must be done, before it is too late and before it gets much worse.

Great post lonestarnot! Thank you.:hi:

All the more reason to sign:
http://www.johnconyers.com /

[katinmn]

14. It is truly chilling.

This is frightening and very sad.

Everyone else has their heads in the sand.

[sce56]

16. Not surprising at all

This story rings true for me Since I cashed out of a home in the LA market last summer and moved to southern Mexico as in moved from the country to protect my two young children from the Empire! I kid you not I have a beautiful house here and if my retirement checks keep coming (can't stop that the Empire needs those troops to know they have a secure future if they survive their career). The house I bought was constructed by another immigrant here from the US who was a ex patriot of Poland originally. He told me that for the past few years he sensed a change in the climate and could smell the propaganda bullshit! Right now the property values are going up partly due to an influx of Gringos buying homes to have a safe haven to escape to if the trend continues. By the way if anyone is thinking of coming this way I'll give all the help I can you really have to watch out for the coyotes in the Real estate business down here they will sell a house that the owner wants say $30K they will sell it for them asking for $60K. NO I did not get taken just saw and heard of a lot of it.


On another note Don't think I gave up I was just worried about the next fabricated terrorist attack and saw LA as to nice a target for * to let get nuked so he can declare martial law and suspend the constitution! I still fight as best as I can I still have the right to vote that is act like I'm voting now that we have fabricated elections with secret voting machines controlled by Republican companies. And I still write to my representation in congress mine are all Democrats and I just wish they would grow a set and take on the media for letting it get so bad! Of course I know they have lots of things to worry about when pursuing the truth just ask Sen Wellstone or the ones that received thank you notes from the Neocons for going against them you know the ones with Anthrax from Secret US Govt labs supposedly from Al Queada or is it Al CIADA "nod wink wink"

[donheld]

18. Can i go too?

I have more of a feeling every day that it's time to leave.

[TacticalPeek]

20. Reminds me of Ambassador Wilson on c-span2/BookTV last year.

(about the administration disclosing his wife's identity)


Now, that is unamerican, it is undemocratic, it is inconsistent with the social contract bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers, who said at the very beginning: we must have a healthy suspicion of the power of the executive branch, hence we will create coequal branches of government and we will endow the press, and we will endow the citizenry with absolute freedoms, and responsibilities, essentially to hold the government to account, and that's what we must do.

As I've been traveling around the country over the past several months, a couple of terms keep coming up - one is the whiff of fascism, generally from people who grew up in central Europe in the thirties, who tell me "Beware. You will not know it has happened until it is too late."

And secondly - secondly is a reference to the McCarthy era, for people who grew up a little bit later. Now the good news about America is that we have a long history of resisting this type of, the pendulum swinging this far in one direction. We have resisted before, and we must continue to resist. It is in the nature of our social contract to do so. It is time for somebody to stand up and say, "Have you no shame?".



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2310321

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2397310&mesg_id=2397367

[AnnInLa]

21. I, however really did meet a nice lady in New Orleans at

the protest march on Jan 20, (Jazz Funeral for Democracy Protest.) She was originally from Germany, but did not talk about a Nazi/fascist experience herself, being too young, I guess. She was in her 40's, had 2 teenage sons with her. One of her sons was in ROTC in high-school and thinking of joining the military...the other was decidedly NOT thinking of joining the military, ever. She brought her sons to hear the speakers, hoping to impress the military-inclined son with the manipulations of bushco and the lies behind all wars, this one in particular. Anyhoo, she also is thinking of returning to Germany and taking the whole family with her. She is not Jewish, but doesn't like what she is seeing here. Said her parents had been poor, average German citizens during the war and had always told her and her siblings how the fascism crept up on the average citizens there, and admonished them to be ever watchful. So, being ever watchful, she wants now to leave the US after 20+ years here and return to Germany.

[Wilms]

22. Wow! n/t

[lonestarnot]

24. AND Amnesty International in its criticisms of bushiltler

becomes "absurd."

[jarnocan]

26. great post

I also like the POAC one. <http://oldamericancentury.org/> see pic.
<http://oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm> the classic article
Also there was so much hateful rhetoric during the campaign and blatant bigotry. Slamming Kerry for looking French- especially in such a nasty connotation was bigotry! AnnCoulter etc. being on Main Stream TV, and other hateful right wing pundits, and they don't EVEN put warning signs over their heads- saying that they are extremist.
the Injustice Sunday BU**SH**! non-christain heathens are trying to ruin our country etc. Even Gannon/Guckert Whitehouse Whoreboy and Tom Delay say they are being prosecuted because the're christians.
Thes guys are religious perverts! So much intimidation and bullying, I think has a trickle down effect. I have seen it on message boards, some folks get really nasty and smug.

[AuntiBush]

28. Like they said: "We had our Hitler, now you have you're own."

You're neighbor is right. This weekend I seen "MORE" Confederate flags waving then American flags. To explain not just the hypocrisy, hatred and arrogance to do as much, just think how STUPID they are because:

Those 13 Confederate stars were in turn placed on the Red, White & Blue. Imagine, they have the 2 hanging together in many instances, as well.

Another oddity: Certain areas barely a flag at all. Other areas were full of them - the areas w/tons of flags are known to congregate at the 3 huge local Evangelical Fundi-Nut-Bag churches amid them.

It was like nothing I'd ever seen in my life. As my tag line below says...

The Warning Signs of FASCISM: http://cloh.org/meaning/facism.html

[minnesotaDFLer]

29. this is great (well sort of)

im bringing this to my government class tomorrow. Can't wait.

[lonestarnot]

33. And whatcha gona do with it there?

[minnesotaDFLer]

35. talk about it

with my neo-liberal buddies

[lonestarnot]

47. well I think you should share it with your students LOL

[ChiciB1]

30. Isn't This What We've Been Saying For Some Time

now??? Calling Keith is a great idea, too bad we have so few outlets. Randi Rhodes would be good too, but not covered on TV!

My father was in the Army and we got stationed there two times during career. I saw Dachau and so much more! Even when I got there there was a lot of the rubble left!

[libodem]

31. This should be headline news in every newspaper and

television broadcast in the country. When I read, The Diary of Anne Frank, as a teen, I wondered 'how could they let it happen'? Our Jews are simply Muslims.

[VOX]

39. All too powerful. Kicked and recommended.

[nonconformist]

43. Chilling is RIGHT

:scared:

[lonestarnot]

48. eeeewww a great freeway blog sign! Tanks!

[saltpoint]

49. Your choice of words, lonestarnot -- "chilling" --

is exactly right.

I shuddered to read that passage.

[lonestarnot]

51. How are you Old Crusoe?

[saltpoint]

55. Good in the immediate sense, lonestarnot -- thanks to another --

--of your intelligent and challenging posts -- but less good in the What's Goin' On sense, after reading the news and checking the blogs, etc. re world events.

Your post here is a call for a honed citizenry -- one that among other things would not allow the president and the vice president of the United States to flagrantly lie about Iraq.

It is still early in history, so to speak, and at this point in Nixon's second term no one even dreamed his ass would be grass by August of 1974. But it was.

My fingers are crossed, and meanwhile, thanks for offering essential things for our consideration on DU.

[lonestarnot]

79. Things may be looking up for the good ole USA.... chimpster gona take it

in the shorts soon! Got my popcorn and smokes at the ready!

[saltpoint]

80. I'm nodding to your post there, hoping that this administration will be --

-- held accountable for its lies and misinformation-giving.

I dont think progressives hate Bush/Cheney for the sport of it; they hate them because they lied thru their damned teeth about a war.

That's mighty serious business.

[lonestarnot]

82. Liars to the max! Cheaters! Every damn one of them! Sneaking

scoundrels would sell their own mothers!

[Redstone]

50. Sorry, but I call bullshit.

Too canned, too "perfect" to be real.

Don't mean to piss on anybody's parade, but this did NOT really happen. It's just a nice fantasy that somebody though they could sell us.

Redstone

[lonestarnot]

52. Whateva

[Singular73]

54. He's right

This is BS...

[applegrove]

89. I wonder if it is propaganda or urban myth because I have heard 3

different versions of the same story in the last 3 days. I don't want to besmirch anyone who actually is feeling this way. It would be completely normal to feel this way if you had been through propaganda and megalomania as a youth. No surprise there. I would imagine that German-Americans or people from Europe who actually lived in the bubble would have been saying these things and feeling frightened for the last 4 years at least.

I just wonder why I hear 3 like stories at one time? Something a little odd. Though the story tells a truth and no doubt right to somebody's core if they had been through it before... the pattern would be obvious and very, very painful to re-experience.

The timing of three versions of this is odd.

[Singular73]

53. Propoganda

Please.

Think people.

Why the hell would the guy move back to Germany lol.

Dont be drawn in by this shit as appealing as it may be...it keeps your eyes off the ball.

[lonestarnot]

56. You missed the point dude read again!

Whose balls are your eyes on?

[Singular73]

59. Fine, you go off and live in the Land of Stuffed animals and Unicorns

while I stay realistic and change things to our favor.

[lonestarnot]

61. Have to watch Jon Stewart ...

[Singular73]

64. THAT, I agree on you with :)

Watching now as well :)

[lonestarnot]

67. I was not put in this world to agree with you!

[Singular73]

69. Go back to yer show :)

And believe me, I dont agree with a LOT of what people on DU think.

There is a dellusional snowball effect that happens here a lot...people sometimes don't understand whats politically viable, and end up disappointed :(

And I want to call them on it before they get disappointed, so they can get their energy focused on whats really viable.

[lonestarnot]

72. With your 149 posts I don't know how much you know of what is "viable"

around these parts. But as I said earlier welcome to DU and peace.

[Singular73]

73. Heh, so someone's post count is what makes them viable on DU?

We all know thats just silly.

I used to own the IGN political boards, until the right-wing management there booted me...so now my new home is here.

IGN is so run by reds its not even funny.

And its one of the largest forums on the internet (in top 5)

[lonestarnot]

68. Wanda Rerun! BOOOOOO!

[Singular73]

60. Fine, you go off and live in the Land of Stuffed animals and Unicorns

while I stay realistic and change things to our favor.

[libhill]

57. Actually

I think it's right on the ball. If it is propaganda, it's useful propaganda. Spread it around. And if you have any scruples about spreading propaganda, try listening to Rush Limpballs some time.

[lonestarnot]

65. You upset or something....? Or are you double posting for a reason?

[Singular73]

70. not sure why that happens.

Im gonna have to go ahead and say its Gods will.

[tyedyeto]

58. That is eerie....

someone who has been through this before and can see it happening here.

Chills you to the bone!

[Eloriel]

62. Aaargh. For the naysayers --

the ones with their heads up their asses. Sorry, but that's just how, um, "out of touch" you sound with your naysaying about this story. I've been reading warnings and comparisons and reports of people leaving for precisely these reasons for at least 2 years now. And collecting a few links, as well:

First -- a superb article (excerpt from a book) that explains beautifully how it could happen there:
They Thought They Were Free
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

German Resistance To Hitler
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x98488
Link: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005208


Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1132270&mesg_id=1132270
Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/nyregion/06profile.html?oref=login&ex=buzzflash

WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1780890#

Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Wake Up and Smell the Fascism
(examples of Britt's 14 points)
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

March 16, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

When Democracy Failed - 2005
The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm
When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

The NASCAR Nazi
Bush is creating an un-American America
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/38/lost-washburn.php

Nazification of America Phase 3
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

The Reichstag Fire and 9/11; Pretexts for Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich
Includes: Parallels between the Third Reich and the Bush Regime; 9/11 and the Reichstag Fire; What was the Reichstag Fire; Nazis in America; Poland 1939, Iraq 2003 http://www.oilempire.us/reichstag-fire.html

The Rise of the Fourth Reich
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html

Bush's 9/11 Reichstag Fire by Harvey Wasserman
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0913-03.htm

20 Comparisons by Barrie Zwicker
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/BloorRemarks911-03.htm

The Bush Plan for America: The Rise of an American National Security State
By Jennifer Van Bergen, 14 December 2003 http://www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/12/3232.shtml

America, We Have a Problem
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4dodd.htm

Fascism and America Today
by Aldo Vidali
http://www.apj.us/20010312fascism.html

Roads to Fascism: Sixty Years Later
by Roderick T. Long
http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long7.html

This is the Fight of Our Lives by Bill Moyers
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0616-09.htm

Published on Monday, July 19, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
The Ghost of Vice President Wallace Warns: "It Can Happen Here"
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-15.htm

Jim Macgregor
Neo-fascism in America
http://www.surfaceonline.org/essayamerica6.htm

E-book - It Can't Happen Here b y Sinclair Lewis
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/lewis/sinclair/happen/
Also read: The Iron Heel by Jack London and
"Der Fuhrer" by Konrad Heiden and "The Plague" by Camus
discussed here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2344349#2344364

"Now and Then"- Part 1
by W. David Jenkins and Sara DeHart June 6, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300019.htm
"Now and Then"- Part 2: The Propaganda Machine
by W. David Jenkins and Sara DeHart June 14, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300020.htm
"Now and Then"- Part 3
Hitler's Playbook: Bush and the Abuse of Power
by W. David Jenkins III and Sara DeHart July 4, 2002
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/dave300021.htm

The killing of America and the rise of the World dictatorship. (Cleita's analysis -- excellent)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3661088&mesg_id=3661088

Wednesday 12th January 2005 (21h19) :
Worker Bees and Soldier Ants: America’s Army of Fascism
By Manuel Valenzuela
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5027

Is the b**sh administration fascist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1614392#1614556

For Freeper Lurkers, which Nazi propaganda method ISN'T Bush using?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3416328&mesg_id=3416328

Bush is no Hitler
It is much better to compare him to Nicolae Ceausescu.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3485449#3487398

The United States of Facism? Slowly but Surely, That’s What .. (East Waynesville church incident banning Dems)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x125181
Link: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/dawkins513

20 Comparisons by Barrie Zwicker
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/BloorRemarks911-03.htm

The Bush Plan for America: The Rise of an American National Security State
By Jennifer Van Bergen, 14 December 2003 http://www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/12/3232.shtml

America, We Have a Problem
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4dodd.htm

Fascism and America Today
by Aldo Vidali
http://www.apj.us/20010312fascism.html

Roads to Fascism: Sixty Years Later
by Roderick T. Long
http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long7.html

This is the Fight of Our Lives by Bill Moyers
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0616-09.htm

Published on Monday, July 19, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
The Ghost of Vice President Wallace Warns: "It Can Happen Here"
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-15.htm

E-book - It Can't Happen Here b y Sinclair Lewis
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/lewis/sinclair/happen/
Also read: The Iron Heel by Jack London and
"Der Fuhrer" by Konrad Heiden and "The Plague" by Camus
discussed here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2344349#2344364

The Rise of the Fourth Reich
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html

Bush/Hitler Links
http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

Nazi Echo - Consortium News (archived articles)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/nazi.html

History of 20th Century America
by Larry Fairbanks
Fascists in America
http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/History.htm

What Is Fascism
(This one is quite good and incl. two-tiered legal system as well as many other hallmarks, and Dr. Lawrence Britt's list, and additional links)
http://www.couplescompany.com/FEATURES/Politics/Structure3.htm

Superpower Democracy (another must read)
http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/2003_07_01_gd.html#105880160504381723


IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330
This article: IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST? http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm


Mussolini in his own words.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2413173

1944 article: American fascism (April 1944 article in NYTimes -- also see 1940s section for the complete article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387

The F Scale
(Measures one's authoritarian personality profile, which makes one receptive to fascism, based on research done after WW2)
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
link posted here: He's Acting Like Nixon in the Final DaysHas Bush Gone Over the Edge? (has some good links re fascist personality, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1725171

Bethune Institute Anti-Fascist Studies
http://bethuneinstitute.org/index2.html

The Spectre of Friendly Fascism by Bertrand Gross
(book excerpt)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Specter_FriendlyFascism_FF.html

Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt
By Umberto Eco
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

Freedom to Fascism -- -- A Bumpy Ride
http://207.44.245.159/article7054.htm

Germany In 1933: The Easy Slide Into Fascism
Bernard Weiner, June 9, 2003
http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm

The Brownshirting of America
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts75.html

Several articles here: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles.htm


Living Under Fascism
Davidson Loehr
7 November 2004
First UU Church of Austin
http://www.uua.org/news/2004/voting/sermon_loehr.html
discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1768616

Robert Kennedy Jr on "fascism"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3589401#3591614 excerpt from
Crimes Against Nature; Harper & Collins; 2004; 193-5
-------------------------------------------------------
Some Book Recommendations:
barb1622000 (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-19-04 01:32 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2367949&mesg_id=2369563&page=
29. there are several books
and I don't know if they are still in print but they are probably at university libraries

1. International Relations Between the Two World Wars 1919-1939 by E. H. Carr, Harper & Row, 1947
2. The Crisis of German Ideology by George Mosse
3. The German Catastrophe by Friedrich Meinecke
4. Varieties of Fascism by Eugen Weber

I think the world was quite stunned when Hitler became more powerful and then finally became Chancellor in the mid 1930s. They simply didn't know what to do about it. National socialism was going on in several countries at the same time, including the USA during the time and check the fourth book for an outstanding exposition of the various forms by country.
----------------------------------------------

ORWELL'S VISION IS STILL ALIVE IN 2003
http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellvision.shtml

NAZI TECHNIQUES
What Would Machiavelli Do? The Big Lie Lives On ...Thom Hartmann
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2276024 RE: CommonDreams article: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0826-02.htm

Published on Monday, December 20, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
The Myth of National Victimhood - All Wrapped and Delivered for Christmas
by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1220-20.htm

[Eloriel]

63. Ooops -- forgot some of the DU threads I've got bookmarked

The Way Things Really Are -- MUST READING esp. for new DUers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1452106

The Power of Nightmares / BBC exposes the American NeoCon (Tinoire)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2876040&mesg_id=2876040&page=
Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm
Transcripts: http://www.silt3.com/index.php?id=573



George W Bush is a NAZI Stooge
(thread includes a number of good links and related discussions)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2418676#2418764

What is the difference??? bush-Iraq; Hitler-Poland.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2406622&mesg_id=2406622&page=

Wanna know where today's Fascism came from? Look here 8/29/04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2282969#2283235

Bush,Machiavelli,StraussIF NO EXTERNAL THREAT EXISTS ONE MUST BE INVENTED
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2255230

Fascism, Nazism, & Eugenics supported by Oil Barons of America &
esp. the Rockefeller Foundation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2248507

I'm scared - I've got a mail, sounds real!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1822699#1822720

It's Time for Another Bush/Nazi Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199887
(most links already harvested)

1944: American fascism (re 1944 article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387

Enough with the "_______ is worse than/ as bad as Hitler"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1730317

How Reagan Got Elected in the first place -- My little tribute
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1773894#1776990 (See Octafish post #33 for links to some books on Amazon)


Is U.S. REALLY like Germany in the 30's? (elementaryPenguin)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1772363#1772645
See also: Is US like Germany of the '30s? (Kayell)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1777406#1780958

Are we on the road to becoming Nazi's?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1784358#

Second Circuit Judge Tells It Like It Is: Bush Is Illegitimate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1833026
re this news story: http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getmailfiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/06/21&ID=Ar00101

Comparing Bush to Hitler hurts our credibility
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1873137#1873330

The Fascism is getting harder to hide. And harder to fight.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=750446

"American fascists" among us
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2026031

Joe Stanton: "Bush's Operation Clean Sweep: World War IV in 2004?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=808293

Fascism?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1948137

Way, Way Past Time To Label BushCo As Nazis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1966911#1967150

I'm crying (Elf sees the warning signs)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1791526#1791609

Is America Becoming Fascist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330

What Would Machiavelli Do? The Big Lie Lives On ...Thom Hartmann
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2276024

Do you understand that a Kerry win is only the beginning of the fight?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2370107#2370221

When Fascism Comes to America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x74736

Fascism Rant
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2516368#2517430

Bush is *not* Hitler!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1868574

[anarchy1999]

87. Eloriel, you are amazing. I have to bookmark this now, just for your

links provided. Where would DU ever be without you?!

:hugs:

[Singular73]

66. Sorry man,

Im sure a lot of people feel that way, but this particular telling is way too syrupy to be taken seriously by anyone but those who want to hear it....

[lonestarnot]

74. Wowser! Lots of books for me to read!

[thecai]

75. My Elderly Friends Agree

"They've seen this happen before".

What a moving, touching post, lonestarnot!

[EFerrari]

77. This is propaganda, not a personal account.

It has no personal fingerprints and was written by a professional. It irks me that someone would do something like this when real personal accounts can be so powerful.

[applegrove]

88. I keep vacillating. Seemed odd to me that I heard 3 German/Americans

come out with the same story in the same two days. Perhaps there is an action from some German/American site?

Perhaps it is propaganda. The repukes must be desperate for democrats to be seen as propagandists - you know - sociopaths always try to paint the victim as the aggressor and project their actions onto the 'enemy' (or set them up).

If this is democratic propaganda - stop! We have the truth. Bush is just going to have to join the propagandists in history like Hitler and now the present government in Khartoum who seem to think they can get out of war crimes by spewing propaganda.

[EFerrari]

93. I have a lot of training as a reader/analyst. This is not

a personal account.

[TreasonousBastard]

81. OK, I've looked for this on...

Snopes, About.com urban legends, and alt.folklore.urban and came up with zip.

Maybe it's too new to hit the urban legends circuit, but it still sounds fishy to me.

I don't deny that somewhere, someone might be going back to Germany, but it's just too cute that a Holocaust survivor prefers a place with those memories to living the next 5 or 10 years here, no matter what happens.

Much less the dozen or so that seem to be floating around the web.

So, maybe it started out with some grain of truth, but it has been seriously embellished.

And, while I agree with the sentiment, I do not agree that we should make our points with bullshit.

[applegrove]

92. I still don't know what to think. Could be one was the truth and the

others are copies to confuse us and make the message less acceptable. The truth is crisp. That is what I know.

[NMMNG]

83. Another kick

:scared:

[BlueIris]

84. That is chilling.

That's one of the most disturbing things I've read all week--thanks!

[Skwmom]

85. Someone said recently "I no longer wonder how Hitler came to power."

[anarchy1999]

86. Thank you for sharing this, n/t

[Lowell]

91. Can't Leave

Interesting story. Don't know if it is true or not, but I am sure it is based in truth.

Now I got to admit, the old German being in his 80s may feel little options other than returning to his homeland, but that isn't for me. I think we got to fight back.

One thing the freepers forget is that this is our country too. I get tired of them telling us to love it or leave it. Go to Canada or some other such nonsense. I fought for this country and bled for it. I've paid my dues and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of fascist neocon chickenhawks run me out. Rather than moaning and whining about the situation I think we should be confronting the bastards at every turn. Question, question, question. Give them no rest and expose their lies as quickly as possible. Otherwise the old German's words will become prophecy.