I'm on the verge of losing a friend because of *

[eissa]

We've been friends for about 20 years. She's hard-core republican (military wife). Sent me one of those photos of soldiers handing out toys to kids, so I responded by sending back a link to the UK memo and another of the killing of an innocent family in Tal Afar. Here is her response to that e-mail, and my reply below that. Did I respond appropriately?



Dear ****,

I apologize for sending you what I thought were heartwarming photos of your ancestral homeland. Have I sent you anything political since the war in Iraq started???? NO.

I am sorry that everything to you is political. You have been ensconced in the Ivory Towers of group think for so many years, you have forgotten how to politely disagree with an old friend.

I haven't agreed with you for many years - remember when you used to be a Republican? Although I have disagreed with you all these years, I have tried to keep our friendship alive IN SPITE of our political differences, because I love you and consider one of my oldest friends.

I sent you the photos, along with sending them to about 50 other people because I thought they were heartwarming. I don't see pictures like these on the news, and in spite of what you think, the coalition is doing a lot of good work and helping a lot of people in Iraq.

Don't think I haven't noticed that **** has been in Iraq for over two months and you have never once put your politics aside to ask an old friend how her husband is doing in your family's homeland.

Oh, I forgot - you already know how he is doing - he is killing innocent people and children for the hell of it. Wow -maybe you should come down and protest with Jessie Jackson when LAPD shoots gang bangers for not stopping when they are told to stop.

I'm sorry that you can't get over why we are in Iraq, and that you would rather see the whole thing fail just to say George Bush is wrong. Were you sending pictures around the internet of Saddam torturing people or shooting people all the years he was in power? Had to wait for coalition pictures?

I love you, and I apologize for thinking you might want to see pictures of desperately poor Iraqi kids getting toys and school supplies. I didn't think it was political.

Trust me, I will never bring up politics with you ever again, and don't bring them up with me either.

**** is fine. I'm sure he will be better when he kills your family. I'll tell him to make sure and take pictures so I can email them to you directly.


Response:

Sorry ****, but everything regarding this ridiculous war IS political. What you consider heartwarming pictures, I view as propaganda because having family and friends there I know what the reality is and those pictures are not it.

No, you’ve been really great about not bringing up the war and I honestly do appreciate it because as you can tell I am unable to put my strong feelings aside, even when it comes to close friends, and stay quiet about something that I view as being immoral and illegal. And please, spare me the argument that just because I don’t support this president that I somehow think Saddam was any better.

I hope **** is doing well, and you know that. Sorry if I’m not more sympathetic; you can at least keep in touch with him and see how he’s doing. I haven’t been able to speak to my uncle and cousins in months because the phone lines are still down. The last I spoke with them, they were in desperate conditions and I have no idea how they are faring. A letter I sent to them months ago has still not been answered.

I’m proud that I’ve evolved a little since high school, and that the summer before I even started college I supported Dukakis over Bush #41; I’ve never liked that family and their obsession with oil. I was always able to put politics aside, even while trapped in this “ivory tower” if you only knew how truly conservative this institution is, you would laugh before typing that line.) Even during the eight years of Clinton when I remember you saying you wished someone would “pull a Kennedy on him,” I never got upset or responded harshly because I understood that, for whatever reasons, you had strong feelings against him that I could just never grasp. I hope you can understand now that the tables have turned that I really do not wish to discuss any part of this president’s policies, especially the disaster that is Iraq.

[Fleshdancer]

1. You're nicer than I would be in that situation

her response to you was extremely bitchy.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. I agree

I tend to get over emotional and let my emotions run away and take over. I think your response is fine. I also would've added a few more photo's of children who are now homeless and parentless because of a lie of W.

[skypilot]

2. Are you Iraqi??

Her letter was offensive in so many ways but the thing that really struck me was her complaining about your not asking about her husband when you yourself have family living over there amidst that chaos. I think you showed remarkable restraint in your response.

[Fleshdancer]

8. I agree completely

I can't believe she had the audacity to say that. What should be asked in that situation anyway? "so is your husband doing well now that he's shooting at my people?" Insane.

[trotsky]

3. I didn't know it was possible to drink that much Kool-Aid.

"The coalition"? I thought only *, Cheney, and FAUX News used that silly phrase to describe the American occupation.

Nice response. You kept your cool and drove your points home, especially mentioning your family and the lack of communication with them. It will be sad if you lose this friend, but sadder still that she refuses to acknowledge anything but FAUX-broadcasted propaganda.

[johnaries]

4. I think it is an excellent response. I hope both of you can put this

behind and continue your friendship.

In my 47 years, I don't ever remember seeing the country this divided, except maybe during the days of school integration.

Our country needs someone in office who can help us heal, not pour more salt in the wounds.

[sui generis]

5. that was much nicer than I would have replied

Life is too short to spend it committed to a friendship that is not "allowed" to "go there", wherever that is.

There are people who will cover your back and back you up, who agree that the war is wrong, and who would never pull a supercilious "in your ivory tower" speech to try to shame you into being quiet. She has already blown the friendship, such as it is.

Don't waste your heartbeats on someone who chooses to stay blind, on someone to whom artificial "heartwarming" sentimentality overrules the fact that we just killed over hundred thousand people for no good reason at all and that we still aren't "over it".

Life is too short. Move on, without regrets.

[notadmblnd]

6. That person is not your friend

That person said some pretty mean and hateful things. I realize it was sarcasm but still it was beyond what needed to be said. Those words were meant to hurt you, a real friend would never have said them.

[Wapsie B]

7. As much as it may hurt to lose a friend

you can't back down from your convictions.

"**** is fine. I'm sure he will be better when he kills your family."

What in the world is up with that? She's drinking the Kool-Aid big time.
If she's going to evolve through this kind of mind control she's going to have to do it herself.

[medeak]

9. deleted

[begin_within]

10. Get that person out of your life. They are not your friend. They care more

about themselves and their stupid mind games than they care about you. Why would you want a person like that in your life anyway?..

[caligirl]

11. There is no bigger 'group think' institution than the military

I know because my husband is retired military. He got out as a Lt Col a few years ago. she is buying what her husband spoon feeds her. The propaganda 'true believers' are fed is disgusting and it takes a really independent minded person(one who is still on active duty) to see it for the shit that it is. My husband and his friends laughed their arses off on more than a few occassions.

The people we found to be most prone to the 'group think', won't think for themselves, and unwilling to look for themselves beyond there CO's lectures, were the grunts. We were air wing and the people there are much more open minded and willing to to test the words of the commanding generals kool aid.

If your friend hangs out in base housing or her main support is from like minded 'grunts' she isn't going to see reality until she comes off the reservation.

I remeber being angry once that Jimmy Carter let the military pay bill sit on his desk for ten days. Hubby was fresh out of flight school, and of course I was a repug from the south. Hubby was a dem from the northwest. After leaving the 'reservation' I woke up and smelled the coffee. Now I am an angry democrat.

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. Wow, that was a lovely response.

I do not know if I could have been as gracious.

"Pull a Kennedy on him?" I don't mean to sound harsh, but I honestly do not know if I could maintain a friendship with someone who would express such a wish. I may dislike Bush's policy decisions intently and think he is about the most dangerous thing for our country and the world, but I cannot imagine telling someone that.

I'm very sorry your friendship has been damaged because of this unjust and illegal war.

[Coventina]

13. Your friend is acting like an abusive spouse....RUN AWAY!

All that bullshit of "I love you, I'm sorry you made me hit you" crap is just plain controlling and creepy.

She is trying to play mind games with you. Don't let her.

[Warpy]

14. Your response

was better than your ex friend deserved. I don't think I'd have been able to be quite that polite and classy. I'd probably have simply cut off communication.

I'm sorry you've lost a friend, and I'm sorry the whole rotten situation has cut you off from your extended family.

My fervent wish is for Bushbots to wake up, for Bush to be impeached and his whole gang tried for war crimes, profiteering, treason, and whatever else we can find to throw at them, and thrown into prison. My fervent wish is for Iraq to heal itself and for the US to leave. We've hurt those people enough.

My wish is that we as a people learn from these dark years and institute the means by which they can never happen again.

[OrlandoGator]

15. My friends don't "joke" about murdering my family.

Perhaps you should re-assess who yours are.

[cybildisobedience]

16. I agree with the earlier posters

I would in NO WAY be able to respond as graciously. She told you that she hoped your family would be killed and that she hoped there were pictures?
With friends like that...

[caligirl]

22. And she sent pictures to '50' of her closest friends? She is a nut.

You need to say to yourself that it is okay to have your own opinions even if that female dog disagrees. You can tell her this for me: from one military wife to another, ***k you. Your not capable of independent thinking, you just repeat the koolaid your hubby feeds you. Get off the group think, don't be afraid to think different from the guy writing your hubbies fitreps. Get out and nmeet people who aren't military and who think differently and challenge your beliefs. Or is that tough exterior just a shell for killing.

[Vyan]

17. If you have to lose them...

Lose them - I've removed all neo-conartists from my life, and that includes family. Yes, it can hurt - but it can also save you a lot of pain. This person is not just a Republican, they are clearly self-centered -- as if photos of our soldiers giving out candy isn't political? Please. They got the response they deserved, and then had the nerve to complain about it?

The point is proven by her fantasy about LAPD shooting gang-bangers.

Here's a little truth on that subject from the LA Times:

Jury Awards $6.5 Million in Frame-Up
# Public defender for a man falsely imprisoned and shot by Rampart officers should have uncovered the police misconduct, panel finds.

By Andrew Blankstein, Times Staff Writer

A man who was falsely imprisoned after being shot and framed by corrupt Rampart gang officers nearly a decade ago was awarded $6.5 million in damages Wednesday by a jury that found his county public defender was negligent for failing to uncover the police misconduct.

Javier Francisco Ovando was paralyzed after he was shot by former Los Angeles police officers Rafael Perez and Nino Durden in 1996, but was later convicted and served 2 1/2 years of a 23-year sentence in state prison after the pair testified that he attacked them.

The conviction was overturned after the two officers emerged as key figures in the Rampart corruption scandal, which involved dozens of cases of police misconduct including beatings, shootings and false arrests of gang members.

Do many police officers perform well at a hard, often thankless job? Yes. Do many of our soldiers similarly sacrifice much and serve honorably. Yes. But there are those who do not -- and pointing that out does not dishonor them, it is those who commit crimes such as these under the color of authority that has dishonored them. Not us and not you.

Vyan
http://vyan.blogspot.com

[WillowTree]

18. No. You're on the verge of losing a friend...

....because your political views are more important to you than the friendship. That's perfectly understandable seeing as how you're from that part of the world, but it's unreasonable to blame choices that you make on anyone else, including the hated president.

I, too, have an old friend whose political beliefs are diametrically opposed to mine. Not so long ago, she sent me a political e-mail that offended my sensibilities (sent to a number of people, me among the group). I chose to just respond by reminding her that I thought we'd agreed some time ago not to discuss politics for the sake of the friendship that has existed between us for the last 35 years. She wrote back saying "Got it!" and that was the end of it. She'll be in town in a few weeks and we'll have a grand time visiting and catching up.

I grow weary of all these threads about how Bush is destroying people's relationships. That's poppycock. Relationships either succeed or fail based on the willingness of the parties involved to accept one another and respect each other's rights to differences and differing views. You and your friend seem to be too far apart politically to be able to find a middle ground. And as I said, that's understandable, but it's because of the two of you place your politics ahead of relationships, not because of anyone else. If the friendship was that important to you, politics would be only a background issue in it.

[eissa]

26. I have tried to keep it in the background

Believe me, I have been really tempted in the past to send her articles/photos/etc. regarding the war and other bush-related policies. The people I usually send to are like-minded; why not send such material to those who are less informed? But I never did. I DO value the friendship despite the opposing beliefs. But I can only put up with so much, and I can't keep biting my lip when I'm expected to swallow such crap.

[Vyan]

33. That's understandable...

Sometimes you do have to make a choice - which is more important, the friendship or the facts?

If you're dealing with someone who lives their politics, where even within a casual conversation they will make overt political assertions - as the mailing of the pic did - and then be offended by a contrary political response, then how do you have any conversation with them without wading into the minefield?

Vyan
http://vyan.blogspot.com

[WillowTree]

35. I do understand that.

Just try to keep in mind that the issue is between the two of you. It's dangerous to allow yourself to fall into a mindset of blaming things like this on others.

I'm sorry that you and she are so far apart right now, but I do think that your response was reasoned and very well put. Hopefully there will come a time in the future where circumstances will allow the two of you to build a bridge. It's terrible to lose a friend..........terrible, I'm sure, for both of you.

[Bouncy Ball]

37. Ok even if you take bush COMPLETELY out of it

she still said she hopes her husband kills THIS woman's family and takes pictures.

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF "FRIEND" SAYS SCREWED UP SHIT LIKE THAT TO SOMEONE?

Seriously, that is just WRONG. The original poster's red light that this woman isn't firing on all cylinders apparently came during the CLINTON years when she kept saying she wished someone would "pull a Kennedy" on Clinton. Helloooo? I'd have to had ended the friendship THEN. I don't care to be around people who wish assassination on others, thankyouverymuch.

[FreedomAngel82]

76. That's how my family is

We don't talk politics or religion because we're all on our own thing. My grandparents, mom, brother and I all dislike Bush while other family members like him and all that. So we just spend time talking about family issues or other things. Only thing I talk with other family members about dealing with religion or politics is a joke or some news I think they might be interested in that is already out there and you can find on the web easily on sites like MSNBC or whatever. You can save your friendships and family relationships. Don't let Bush destroy your life. That's why I like DU so I can come here and talk with like-minded folks and take part in petitions and things like that. Then when the day comes for Bush's justice I can go "see? I told you so." ;) Until then none of the republicans will believe you because their leaders don't do anything.

[hiley]

19. eissa, this person is not your friend

sorry but she should face it and look at what depleted uraniunm weapons use has done to Iraqi babies and is doing.

This statement below amoung others made by this "friend" are vile.
((**** is fine. I'm sure he will be better when he kills your family. I'll tell him to make sure and take pictures so I can email them to you directly.))

These mid-wives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... "We don't know what's going to come out."
http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

[DURHAM D]

20. Only you can know if you responded appropriately.

As for me, I slowly began purging repugs from my life in the late 60's. I am happy to say that I am 30 years free of stress induced by trying to forgive people their ignorance. However, I have one big exception that won't go away - it is my entire extended family.

For the most part I don't spend much time with them - when I do I won't discuss politics or religion. As a result, they work overtime to try and engage on those subjects. Everytime I am around my family I watch for that one family member who has broken through the crap - so far nothing to report.

[militaryWife]

21. it is a group mindset

I'm sorry that you are having trouble with your friend. I, myself, lost a friend over the election. Being a liberal spouse in the military can be a challenge, everyone assumes that you think just like they do. I've learned the hard way that silence is seen as agreement, and I am silent no more. But it has cost me. Quite simply, there is no other choice for me. I will speak out against what I know to be wrong.

My best militaryWife advice, don't obsess over it. When I got into a flame war with what I thought was a dear friend, I let it bother me too much. Now I don't even miss her.

(P.S. long-time lurker, 1st post- whooohoo!)

[Fleshdancer]

24. Welcome to DU militaryWife!

:hi:

a liberal military wife...life isn't easy for you, is it? Well I'm glad you stopped lurking and started posting. DU is a great place to vent.

[trotsky]

25. Welcome to DU, militaryWife!

Glad to have you here, and thank you for sticking to your principles and speaking out.

[loudestchick]

28. Nice 1st post MW! Post more often. We all should use our voices.

[caligirl]

30. Good for you, welcome. Hubby left the MC several years ago

usna'78. Leaving the military was a good thing for us, but you wouldn't believe the atitudes of the colonels for 'failing the loyalty test' when we chose to exit. Leaving was a smart choice, but they sure didn't support him in his decision.

happy to have you here military wife.

[Qanisqineq]

43. Welcome to DU militarywife!

From another military wife.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

49. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[MissB]

70. Welcome to DU!

[Mrs_Beastman]

78. Welcome to DU

[ArkDem]

23. I don't understand it. You have done nothing but be the best

friend you can be. I can't imagine anyone ever being cross at someone as kind and loving as you.

[Individualist]

27. You responded inappropriately IMO

A better response would have been to tell her that her comments about killing your family and emailing you their pictures was outrageous and unforgivable. This person is NOT your friend.

[caligirl]

36. she is having delusions of a power trip, her hubby does not have

the power to kill ad lib,thats murder as Bush knows, and her comments might just need to get sent to the Stars and Stripes op ed page. I am sure I am wondering about her mental state? Sounds like someone is full of her self and out on the edge. Lack of respect for the uniform is shown by making such careless statements. And wanton killing for nothing more than a difference of opinion is not what her husbands job is. Hitler did that didn't he?

[Bouncy Ball]

40. She sounds like just about every bush supporter I know, actually.

What does that say about their mental health on a collective basis?

:scared:

[BillZBubb]

29. You need to get a better class of friends.

I have weeded out all the right wingers from my social circle. A few relatives are wingnuts and we don't talk. I don't miss them a bit. I am much happier.

I enjoy my true friends. No one who is a doctrinaire Republican can be a true friend, because their philosophy of life is based on putting their interests first--always. It's a sophomoric excuse for selfishness. True friendship requires putting your friends needs ahead of yours in times of crisis. No Repug will do that.

[Bouncy Ball]

41. You hit the nail on the head.

I became friends with a woman about three years ago and we had a great time. But I started noticing everything and I mean EVERYTHING was about her. She only called when she wanted something from me. It wasn't give and take, there was no two-way street, it was all about what can you do for ME?

And she's a big time bushbot. Before the election, I was already pulling away from her, because I was sick of her selfishness. And her husband was a lecherous racist, to boot.

After the election I decided screw it, life's too short for "friends" that only take and never give.

[loudestchick]

31. Pay no attention to the reality of what's happening in your "homeland"

but look at these warm fuzzy pictures. Do you feel better now? Of course not! Cut her loose! I have let some people go and have accomodated others...but I've drawn a line they KNOW not to cross. You have a right to boundries. Stay strong, and :hug:.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. You were much nicer than I would have been.

But I am glad you reminded her of her comment about Clinton. Talk about hatred!

[Bouncy Ball]

34. NO ONE that nasty and passive-aggressive has a place in my life,

period. I don't care WHAT their politics are. That woman is flat-out nasty and all the little backhanded slaps she delivers are just wrong.

She LOVES you? BUT......slap slap slap slap.

Yeah, right. Sure she does.

Sorry, but it doesn't look like any big loss to lose this friend. Geez.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

38. I agree with everybody that your response was kind and appropriate.

That stuff she said about Saddam's crimes is the lamest, most idiotic cheap shot that I keep hearing Republicans come up with.

My husband and I have worked for a lot of non-profit organizations for years, so we have discussed the topic with a lot of people in years past. I never once heard a Republican show the least bit of interest in anything that happens to people in other countries, except when they were complaining about Clinton doing something to help someone.

THEY are the ones that never cared about Saddam's crimes and you can bet they never gave one red cent to any organization that tried to expose the crimes or help the Iraqi people.

Just shows the hypocrisy.

[Bouncy Ball]

42. Yep, back when the MSM was going on and on about

Saddam's crimes, all the right wingers were crying crocodile tears over the "poor Iraqis."

Well WHERE the hell were those crocodile tears when the US government, under bush I said to the Kurds after the first Gulf War, "oh yeah, we got your back if you want to attack Hussein."

They attacked SH thinking we were backing them up and we left them HIGH AND DRY. Left their cheese out in the wind. Resulting in the slaughter of about 3,000 or more Kurds.

None of these bushbots gave a SHIT about it then, why should they suddenly care now?

They don't. It's bullshit. They've never had one single moment of compassion for an Iraqi life.

[zbdent]

39. If this F-wad continues the rant

please show the original e-mail to the authorities and tell them that a threat has been placed on your life.

If you time it right, and the cops believe you, you might be telling her "hi" as the cops come knocking on her door . . .

This is not worth whatever "friendship" you had with this person.

[wicket]

44. Her email to you was extremely unfair

Your response was definitely appropriate. Sorry that this happened to you :hug:

[KayLaw]

45. I would cut her off

There is something seriously wrong with someone who write something so sinister and chilling. I love you and the relative we know will be better when he kills your family? She will send you pictures of their dead bodies? What the hell kind of psycho says things like that? There is absolutely no excuse for that shocking comment. That's one of the most evil things I've ever heard.

[LibDemAlways]

46. In that letter your "friend" showed her

true colors. She's not your friend. She sounds like a bitter person who knows the truth but can't bring herself to acknowledge it because she's so invested in the lie.

Life's too short. Lose her.

[flaminbats]

53. amen!!! I agree with LibDemAlways

"Oh, I forgot - you already know how he is doing - he is killing innocent people and children for the hell of it. Wow -maybe you should come down and protest with Jessie Jackson when LAPD shoots gang bangers for not stopping when they are told to stop.

I'm sorry that you can't get over why we are in Iraq, and that you would rather see the whole thing fail just to say George Bush is wrong. Were you sending pictures around the internet of Saddam torturing people or shooting people all the years he was in power? Had to wait for coalition pictures?"

What a f*cking bitch!!! Lose her..and life will get better.

Anyone who wants a war to continue..and tells you that, doesn't really love our soldiers or Iraqi children. She is only using you to justify this war in her lost, insane mind!

[wovenpaint]

47. That last sentence of her letter put her over the verge, IMHO

I'm so sorry to hear that yet another friendship has been affected by this obscene atrocity. I think you responded with gracious restraint to try to salvage the situation.
But when a "friend" writes a hateful, snide remark about killing your family, is it worth it? My heart goes out to you and I hope you hear from your family soon.

[caligirl]

48. We could take the names, comments and photos of these

Bushbots and post them in a public place for some humiliation, that letter writer deserves it. She is a gap toothed idiot. Public ridicule is in order.

[noamnety]

50. One person's heartwarming photo is another person's war crime

"As Iraqi Resistance attacks in the city of al-Qa’im on the border with Syria increase, American troops in the city have taken to using Iraqi children as human shields. As a result, local people are keeping their children home from school.

The correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam in the city reported that every time American troops want to go on patrol in downtown al-Qa’im – something they are obliged to do by the orders they receive – the soldiers attract children to them using candy and presents. When the children approach to take the trinkets, the soldiers grab dozens of them and put them on the backs of their tanks and armored vehicles to prevent the Resistance from attacking them."

http://www.albasrah.net/moqawama/english/0205/iraqiresistancereport_160205.htm

"Capt. Ayers took lessons from his fellow captains. In April, Capt. Jesse Beaudin convinced a friend from the U.S. to send backpacks, notebooks and pencils for schoolchildren. Kids mobbed troops for the goods whenever they went out on patrol. "The kids provided security. No one attacked us when we were surrounded by children," Capt. Beaudin says. After hearing about this tactic at the dining hall, Capt. Ayers's men also wrote home requesting school supplies."

-- WSJ, Sept 22

[seabeyond]

51. eissa, i thought your friends email had valid points

and being sensitive to friendship, love, a family member in iraq, her position, i thought you responses done in love, and answered her in full, in your own honesty. your post felt to be in integrity.

good for both of you to express like this. i dont think it need be the end of friendship, but a growing in friendship. respectfully

[davsand]

52. You were more than nice with your response.

Frankly, I think you did the best you could under the circumstances. I doubt I could have responded with anything resembling civility to anyone who made a comment about sending me pics of her husband killing my family.

Something i did realize early on in this entire mess (and I offer this not as any excuse for her behavior--but more as something for you to hang onto about your judgment in people) is that if you have someone you care about over there, you almost need to be able to see some justification for us being there.

I think I'd go quite mad if my husband/kid/any kind of family member was there and I felt it was morally wrong. Wouldn't you?

I think a lot of people (not ALL, mind you) need to find some reason to think it is OK for us to be there. For that reason, I think some of them choose not to see the realities of what the US has done thru any view other than that of our propaganda. I also think that is why so many are SO sensitive to any perceived criticism of our troops-even if the criticism is of the commanders NOT the actual men themselves.

Peace to you and yours. I hope your family comes safely thru this all, and I hope your heart mends soon.


Laura

[anarchy1999]

54. You were far kinder and gentler than I could have or would have been.

If it were myself, this person would be terminated from active friendship list pending apology, blocked from e-mail account with message sent telling why. Threaten my family, along with sending pictures? SEE YA!

Good luck.

[shadowknows69]

55. I'm having the same problems

my best friend was over today raging against the "BS Amnesty report". The press conference was on and just as Bush said it was absurd my friend repeated "see he says its absurd" after I picked my jaw up off the ground I angrily said "well if georgie says its absurd it must be right?" went over and turned off the Press conference to which he said "hey that's our president!" I said no, that's a nazi, not my president. I hope my friend is wise enough to leave his misguided politics at my door next time.

[nashville_brook]

56. with friends like that...

you know the rest.

life is short. i'm sure you have many more friends deserving of your time, who respect your views and live a reality-based life.

[EnfantTerrible]

57. I feel for you

and I'm amazed at your restraint.

I broke off all relations with my parents just last week over similar issues so I know just how painful this is. You were right that this war is nothing but political. I commend you on the restraint you've shown especially after this comment:

"*** is fine. I'm sure he will be better when he kills your family. I'll tell him to make sure and take pictures so I can email them to you directly."

This alone would've prompted all the vitriol I could muster...

PM me if you find you want to talk about this with a nameless, faceless stranger.

Peace

ET

[IrateCitizen]

58. Your disagreement is not political -- it is familial...

Your friend has a spouse in the US military who is currently in Iraq. You have extended family who still lives in Iraq. Both of you are therefore affected pretty significantly by the policies of the Bush administration.

For your friend, it is extremely difficult for her to come to grips with the realization that her husband is not one of the "good guys" in this instance. Like many military families, it is important that they maintain a faith in the myth of American exceptionalism. You, on the other hand, are overwhelmed with concern for your family members currently in Iraq whose lives have been almost incomprehensibly disrupted as a result of this war and occupation.

You both demonstrated the deep-seated emotions that lie at the heart of this disagreement in your responses. Your friend said:
Oh, I forgot - you already know how he is doing - he is killing innocent people and children for the hell of it. Wow -maybe you should come down and protest with Jessie Jackson when LAPD shoots gang bangers for not stopping when they are told to stop.

This is an obvious cheap-shot that comes out of the fact that you really struck a raw nerve on her end. While you didn't respond with such a snarky and ill-founded comment, you certainly showed that you are feeling a good deal of personal anguish over this.

Personally, I think that this friend of yours was TOTALLY out of line sending you the initial email, considering that you have family over in Iraq. But your exchange demonstrates that your disagreement is not political -- rather, you both have a good deal of emotional baggage over this issue, and understandably so. I would never presume to tell you what to do, but in this instance I don't know if your friendship would really be salvagable.

[arcane1]

59. losing this friend wouldn't be much of a loss

:puke:

[maveric]

60. She wished Clinton was assasinated? Peace and prosperity is a bad thing?

She's delusional and a bit mentally ill.

[noonwitch]

61. Don't lose your friends over politics

She's the wife of someone who is serving in the military. I disagree with the war in Iraq, but I don't blame the soldiers, who do the best they can. How can they fight a war if they don't support the goals? I would like to see a democratic and peaceful Iraq, too. I'm glad that along with the fighting, the soldiers are bringing food and supplies to the Iraqis. I thought and still think Bush was wrong to send the troops there, but now that they are there, I want them to be successful and come home alive.

Disagreements over politics should never change relationships with friends or family. I spent a good part of this weekend arguing politics with my conservative 91 year old grandfather. I don't love him any less because he is a vocal conservative who loves O'Reilly and hates the Clintons. Our arguments are part of our relationship because we are respectful of each other's views.

[tx_dem41]

62. Stay friends....there are things you could both learn from each other..

that is obvious from both letters (from the nuggets of wisdom contained in both).

[ComerPerro]

63. Great line about high school

"I'm proud that I've evolved since High School".

LMAO, great point.

Many Americans are stuck in that mentality.

Listening to the "arguments" and "logic" of neo-con males is like listening to a 12 year old boy.

[tx_dem41]

64. Ummm...I believe the letter writer in the OP is a female. n/t

[ComerPerro]

66. Oh, I know, I was just giving an example

It seems to be the most prominent one.

Imagine:

Talk to a group of 12 year old boys about war, killing, and guns. Pay careful attention to the ones who think its "cool", and who think that Bush is a "badass".

Then talk to a group of FReepers from the 101st Keyboardists.


Notice any similarities?

[LittleClarkie]

65. Hoo boy.

She knows damn well they were political.

And I dare say she's NOT sorry. Do you know what I mean when I say that sometimes people will say that word when they're indignant? Sort of an "I'm sorry your such an idiot" though I know she didn't say that.

She also has about two or three broad brushes going. Interesting pictures she's painting.

Maybe you should send her a picture of Rummy shaking hands with Sadaam in answer to her comment: "Were you sending pictures around the internet of Saddam torturing people or shooting people all the years he was in power? Had to wait for coalition pictures?"

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

67. She sounds like a lost cause.

I can understand why she would willingly swallow government propaganda rather than admit that her husband is risking his life for a bad cause, and contributing to the atrocity that is the Iraq occupation. If I had a loved one over there, I'd probably want to hold on to my delusions, too. By sending her your pictures, you were confronting her head-on with a challenge to her beliefs. Nobody likes that, no matter how open-minded we like to think we are, and I can see how she would feel provoked by your actions.

But what she said was completely inexcusable. Also, by your own admission, knee-jark hate-filled rhetoric is not a new thing for her. I would have cut this woman off from my company a long time ago, rather than waiting for a tragic event like this to come between us.

[demo dutch]

68. Eissa, if you can't have a political disagreement without your "friend"

getting personal then this person isn't worth it. I have noticed with our repugs relatives during political discussions that they always get personal, they can't seem to be able to separate the two.

Very unfortunate, however it boils down to whether you value the friendship. It doesn't sound like this person likes you for who you are, otherwise she would appreciate your "political" opinion and not view it as threatening.

Most of the time you're friends with someone because you share a lot the same values. Maybe you've just grown apart after 20 years, and you'll have to let go. It happens for a reason.

[tx_dem41]

69. Is it true that you have never asked how her husband is doing..

while he has been over there?

[eissa]

71. Yes, it is

I think I should have made it clear earlier that although the two still have strong ties to the military, he's actually a retired marine. He now works for the FBI. I'm not even sure why he's there, and she herself said she can't divulge that information. I do feel bad about not asking, but at the same time, she has not asked how my family is doing other than if they support the "liberation" (which they don't.) Also, I don't think he should be over there to begin with, so sorry if I don't inquire about his well-being (not that I wish him any harm.)

[tx_dem41]

73. Thank you for responding.

I will stick with my response up-thread. I believe you should remain friends with her. For two sides to resolve problems, members of that group need to keep communicating. It sounds trite, but, from personal experience, its good advice.

[Ilsa]

72. So they think a few toys and teddy bears are going to make up

for dead family, missing relatives and friends, no potable water, no electricity, and all their stuff being blown up? Uh-huh.

I'm sorry about your friend. Don't let her get away with mixing issues, either, like the Jesse Jackson/gang bangers comment.

I wish you well. I know it's hard. I live in a red state in a red county, and I don't talk politics with very many people. And I am truly sorry you have family suffering in Iraq. I hope they are okay.

[chalky]

74. On the VERGE of losing a FRIEND?

I'm sorry, but with that obscene comment about killing your family, this cow has made it very clear that she is NOT. YOUR. FRIEND.

The only thing you're on the verge of losing is your illusion that this...this...woman was ever your friend.

[Rainscents]

77. I'm so sorry, you had to endure so much hate from your so call friend.

I don't believe, she is your true friend. True friends don't say they want your family to be killed. True friends support each other and respect each others view even thou they may not agree. I have Republican friend and we both respect each others politic view and never get nasty with each other. We love each other very much because we have respect for each other!

[karlrschneider]

79. Since half of all marriages end in divorce, "losing a friend" isn't that

big a deal...as someone said upthread, "With friends like that..."
Don't mourn the 'loss' of a friend who lacks the ability to be one.

[expatriate]

80. I haven't read the entire thread yet, but ...

This quote from your "friend's" letter tells the entire tale, IMO.

"**** is fine. I'm sure he will be better when he kills your family. I'll tell him to make sure and take pictures so I can email them to you directly."

You need a friend like her like you need terminal hemorrhoids.

Send her that dreadful photo of the old Iraqi man putting the mangled body of the little girl with the other dead bodies. Maybe instead of warming her shrivelled little heart it will make her burn with shame. It makes me burn with shame, and I've been staunchly opposed to this war and the war in Afghanistan from the outset.