It's Time To Get Serious About Impeaching George Bush

[Itsthetruth]

CounterPunch
May 31, 2005

War Crimes and Constitutional Punishment
It's Time to Get Serious About Impeaching Bush
By NORMAN SOLOMON

If you think President Bush should be impeached, it's time to get serious. We're facing huge obstacles -- and they have nothing to do with legal standards for impeachment. This is all about media and politics.

Five months into 2005, the movement to impeach Bush is very small. And three enormous factors weigh against it: 1) Republicans control Congress. 2) Most congressional Democrats are routinely gutless. 3) Big media outlets shun the idea that the president might really be a war criminal.

For now, we can't end the GOP's majority. But we could proceed to light a fire under congressional Democrats. And during the next several weeks, it's possible to have major impacts on news media by launching a massive educational and "agitational" campaign -- spotlighting the newly leaked Downing Street Memo and explaining why its significance must be pursued as a grave constitutional issue.

In the past, attempts to impeach presidents for war crimes have sunk like a stone in the Potomac. If this time is going to be different, we need to get to work -- organizing around the country -- making the case for a thorough public inquiry and creating a groundswell that emerges as a powerful force from the grassroots. Only a massive movement will be strong enough to push over the media obstacles and drag politicians into a real debate about presidential war crimes and the appropriate constitutional punishment.

http://www.counterpunch.org/solomon05312005.html

[WLKjr]

1. after his newest new's conference

yep, it's time.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Sure, it was time a long time ago, but ...

Your factor No. 1 (Republican control of Congress) makes this an entirely moot point. It affects point No. 2 (i.e. if Dems had control, they'd have more balls) and point No. 3 (i.e. If the Dems had more balls, they'd make statements and conduct hearings that would be reported by the media).

Nothing can be done in this regard as long as republicans control Congress. It's the first domino that has to fall.

[still_one]

4. you are absolutely right except

we did have some control in 2000-2004, and the democrats in the senate for the most part let * walk all over them

[ArkDem]

51. You mean part of 2001 and 2002.

[Warpy]

9. Of equal importance is challenging those wimpy DLC

Democrats in Congress. They're a totally dispirited bunch, and I swear most of them are just place holders, collecting their salaries, fattening their pensions, enjoying socialist medicine, and counting the days until they're wealthy enough to retire. Only when we threaten them with defeat will they start to wake up a little.

Right now, most of them are utterly useless.

[Occulus]

10. Would they be guilty of complicity in *'s crimes? n/t

[jmcon007]

26. We need to stop talking about the "liklihood' of Bush being impeached.

If we force the public to look at the myriad crimes of this bunch, then I'll accept taking back Congress in '06 as a decent result.
I believe if the pressure is maintained here in cyberspace, the media will have no choice but to follow suit. After all, bloggers are just beginning to be viewed by the NY Times and others as a real threat to their market share.
And, just let the Republicans defend Bush at the risk of their own political lives.

[chelsea0011]

3. you would never know it from the "press conference" just on but

there is some movement towards holding Bush accountable. Ralph Nader was given space on the Boston Globe Op. ed. section today to state the facts for an immpeachment. All we need is a stained dress, I guess.

[immoderate]

5. Nader talks about the Downing Street Memo.

That would be the blue dress.

--IMM

[Itsthetruth]

6. More info ....

Excerpt from article:

"The May 26 launch of www.AfterDowningStreet.org comes from a coalition of solid progressive groups opting to take on this issue with a step-by-step approach that recognizes the need to build a case in the arena of media and politics. The coalition is calling for a Resolution of Inquiry in the House of Representatives that would require a formal investigation by the Judiciary Committee."

[Itsthetruth]

7. It's Time To Debate The "I" Word

Thanks for the info. The fact that the Boston Globe would publish this article at this time is very interesting. They may forsee a political crisis developing for the Bush government.

RALPH NADER AND KEVIN ZEESE
The 'I' word
By Ralph Nader and Kevin Zeese |

Boston Glove
Op-Ed
May 31, 2005

President Clinton was impeached for perjury about his sexual relationships. Comparing Clinton's misbehavior to a destructive and costly war occupation launched in March 2003 under false pretenses in violation of domestic and international law certainly merits introduction of an impeachment resolution.

Eighty-nine members of Congress have asked the president whether intelligence was manipulated to lead the United States to war. The letter points to British meeting minutes that raise ''troubling new questions regarding the legal justifications for the war." Those minutes describe the case for war as ''thin" and Saddam as ''nonthreatening to his neighbors," and ''Britain and America had to create conditions to justify a war." Finally, military action was ''seen as inevitable . . . But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The president and vice president have artfully dodged the central question: ''Did the administration mislead us into war by manipulating and misstating intelligence concerning weapons of mass destruction and alleged ties to Al Qaeda, suppressing contrary intelligence, and deliberately exaggerating the danger a contained, weakened Iraq posed to the United States and its neighbors?"

If this is answered affirmatively Bush and Cheney have committed ''high crimes and misdemeanors." It is time for Congress to investigate the illegal Iraq war as we move toward the third year of the endless quagmire that many security experts believe jeopardizes US safety by recruiting and training more terrorists. A Resolution of Impeachment would be a first step. Based on the mountains of fabrications, deceptions, and lies, it is time to debate the ''I" word.

Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate. Kevin Zeese is director of DemocracyRising.US.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/31/the_i_word/

[Supersedeas]

30. Frist and Hastert don't want to debate Delay...the President of the U.S is

another can of worms.

[AuntiBush]

47. Thus far not a peep from the camp.

Gut feeling says the "i" word is rising faster then we think.

One can only hope. Elderly family members say when Universities hit the airwaves (C-SPAN), conferences, etc., there is a huge problem brewing.

Hope their right as I miss my country and can't take anymore.

[OrlandoGator]

8. Impeachment should be the #1 issue of the 2006 campaigns.

n/t

[spooked911]

19. I agree. That would be so wonderful if it happened, but I doubt it

[Pacifist Patriot]

38. I whole-heartedly agree.

Well co-issues. Impeachment and the death of democracy.

[Rowdyboy]

11. Two words: President Cheney

Cause thats what you're asking for-unless you get rid of him too. Then in order, its
President Hastert
President Ted Stevens (Pres Pro-tempore of the senate)
President Condoleeza Rice
President John Snow
President Donald Rumsfeld

and it doesn't get any better after that. What you want is a revolution thats throws the whole scummmy gang out on its ass, and installs reputable people in their place. Impeachment just replaces one asshole with another.

[jackstraw45]

12. C'mon...

You have to know that, as Vice President, Cheney is as powerful as the President himself already.

Impeachment may never succeed but we need to push for a vote, at the minimum.

These ARE war criminals running out country. DU is usually ahead of the curve.

Let's get to work.

[NoPasaran]

15. And how do you propose to defeat mathematics?

Without control of Congress, Democrats cannot schedule hearings. Without a majority in the House, they cannot impeach. And without a majority in the Senate, they cannot convict... as if President Cheney would be an improvement.

[progressoid]

17. Exactly!.......eom

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Not necessarily

The whole lot of them will have to be impeached for their crimes. They're all guilty. All of them from Bush and Cheney to Rice and Wolfowitz.

[spooked911]

20. No no no, think hoiw much Smirky McChimp's reputation would be tarnished

by impeachment. Plus, it is the right thing to do.

[electropop]

29. The guy who has to pick up the pieces

is severely weakened politically. Look at what happened to Jerry Ford.

[TankLV]

45. Who also came very close to being elected.

Carter's win was one of the all-time squeekers, too, don't forget.

Ford is the original Dan Quayle of his times - with his "poland" remark.

Makes me almost miss Ford.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. Which makes for some interesting speculation if...

the same investigation that tripped up Bush also incriminated your entire list.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[understandinglife]

18. MNA is focused on being as supportive of Conyers, as possible.

We will be unrelenting in coupling the daily travesties Bush and his neoconster fellow criminals are commiting in Iraq with Congressman Conyers steady efforts to bring the criminals to justice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3742495

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - how ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[Griffy]

27. I agree.. CONYERS is the key to IMPEACHMENT... Listen to...

Conyers at the media forum from last week (on blog page at www.johnconyers.com ) .. He was on the judiciary commitee during Watergate, and he sees this memo as the proof to open the full investigation. I believe we will impeach bush in '07, shortly after the mid terms, the investigation will help us win enough seats to take the house and choose the speaker of the house, which, in case you forgot, is 3rd in line for the presidency! Since Chenney will be implicated during the investigation, his impeachment will be concurrent and BOOM.. Dem as president!

THIS is what I am working on for the next 2 years! Is TOTALLY doable, we have the truth, all we need is the media, we will either get the corperate media to comply or develope new ways to get the message out!

[understandinglife]

33. "... or develope new ways to get the message out." This we must do.

And, I agree with your assessment and that it is 'TOTALLY doable.'

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Mnemosyne]

35. I'm with you Griff!

ALL THE WAY!!!!

It is now my main goal in life to see them pay for their crimes against humanity. I hope many others will join us.

:hi: :yourock: :woohoo:

[spooked911]

21. Last week I contacted my representative and senators about impeaching Bush

-- re the Downing Street memo. I think everyone should do this. We have to start somewhere.

[Mnemosyne]

36. On it each day spooked!

Maybe through this the truth about 911 will come about!:woohoo:

[Gold Metal Flake]

22. Headline: Impeached Bush Pardoned By Pres. Cheney.

1. Patriot Act provisions subject to "sunset" must not be made permanent.

2. Stop electronic voting.

3. Elect Dems

4. Appoint special prosecutors ten people deep and three miles wide and prosecute.

Impeachment is revenge. Wasted energy. It's not a true solution of any kind. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE DON'T HAVE THE VOTES IN CONGRESS!

[Zorbuddha]

49. You are so wrong

Leave the Machiavellianism to the RW where it belongs. It's time America got back to doing the right thing for its own sake, which is a liberal ethic, not for some perceived payoff.

Unforeseen benifits accrue from right action, doors open where they weren't even known to exist. Impeachment would shine a light in all the dark corners and the lies will be exposed to usher in a turning of the political tide. America will be sickened by the truth and a reckonning will be forthcoming that will expose the ugly heart of the RW and hang it out to dry.


sp

[Gold Metal Flake]

50. Uh, what?

I am wrong?

Wrong about what? You would prefer that we:

Allow the Republicans to make permanent the provisions in the Patriot Act that are set to "sunset".

Allow electronic voting to continue and spread.

Not elect Democrats.

Not prosecute the crimes of the Republicans.

Are you sure you are posting on the correct message board?


EDIT: Machiavellian Anti-Spelling karma.

[Zorbuddha]

53. You are so right.

Actually, I did respond to you because of your Cheney comment, but I was aiming at all the 'impeachment is futile' commentary. Tou did make some good points and they were well-taken by me. I have taken my poison and will now quiver and twitch.

[MsUSA]

23. Coming back from lunch today, I saw a bumper sticker that said

I M P E A C H
Bush/Chaney

First time I've ever seen on a bumper sticker, and it looked great.

[Sapphire Blue]

24. Please check out Impeach Central

Impeach Central: http://impeachcentral.com/

Urgent!! Write your Representative to demand the truth about why the Bush Administration invaded Iraq; Urge Congress to Investigate Bush's Iraq War Lies: http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/39

[progressoid]

25. Impeachment like "memogate" is a noble but lost cause

While it's great to chip away at this administration and expose their many faults, impeachment is unrealistic at best. Heck, it's just delusional at this point.

Who, exactly, is going to impeach him?

[Griffy]

28. you are WRONG .. listen to Conyers at the media forum...

just cause you dont see it happening.. I went to that forum personally, and I get the feeling that impeachment is where they want to go!

so get to work, make it happen...

[progressoid]

31. Sure,

That's where I'd like it to go too. But it ain't gonna.

We could barely hold on to filibuster, how exactly are ALL Democrats (not to mention needing some Repubs!) going to come to a consensus that this president needs to be impeached?

Hell, we could only get 89(?) Democrats to simply sign Conyers' letter!

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. You'd be surprised. I think politicians on both sides of the aisle

would eat their own if the momentum became too overwhelming to stop. Political preservation of one's own ass would supercede loyalty to a president mired in impeachable offenses. I think we would see some Republicans turn on him if the oppressive reins on (and self-censorship of) the media were lifted.

[noiretextatique]

44. hello...'polticial preservation of one's own ass'

will trump any phony party loyalty. some republicans have already turned on him.

[bejammin075]

32. Light fire under Repubs too

The purpose of calling our elected Repubs is to send a clear signal that we're informed, and we're not going to take it, and we expect action.

I keep telling my Repub Rep and 2 Senators that "100% of your constituents were lied to. When will you take a stand and represent the 100% of the public and the 100& of Congress that was lied to by Bush?"

[B Calm]

34. I agree. I don't think this country can withstand another 3 1/2 years

with this idiot running the country.

[stubtoe]

52. Nor would the rest of the world.

Impeachment would be a step forward in atoning for US war crimes in Iraq.

[Independent_Liberal]

40. Listen up people!

If you want to impeach Bush and his entire cabinet for war crimes and covertly implementing the PNAC, we have to get a handle on our congress men and women.

www.recallthecongress.com

That's right. RECALL THE CONGRESS!

WE HAVE THE POWER TO DO IT!

We're going to subject every member of Congress to recall if they don't do their job.

It IS possible. More people need to pursue this. Go to the link above and find out what we're going to do.

We're going to legally force them to impeach!

[Independent_Liberal]

41. More about the right of recall...

http://www.recallthecongress.com/further_explanation_of_the_right.htm

>>>>snip

FURTHER EXPLANATION OF THE RIGHT OF RECALL

( For the less legally Minded )

The only assurance to prevent the hijacking of the country in the future is for Americans to assert the power of recall of congress members who refuse to abide by the Constitution and the will of the masses of the people in their inept support of a government gone awry.

Contrary to myth, Congress people can be recalled by their constituents. Any power not enumerated in the Constitution is reserved to the people. Recall is one of those powers.

In those states where there is a law establishing procedure to invoke the recall, it is available to the people to initiate it. In those
states where it is not procedurally established by law, the local state legislatures need to establish a procedural law whereby the people_can initiate it. It has nothing to do with local legislators demanding something of D.C.

As an alternative to a recall procedure against a Congressman, any member of congress can make a private unilateral employment contract with his constituents to pledge a certain conduct with penalties ( a court ordered enforcement of the terms of the breach of contract or fired from job )

We the people can do it. You can help!

[Independent_Liberal]

42. Keeping this kicked!

[jarnocan]

43. Don't forget to check the meetup.com Impeach Bush groups

and share info with them. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/591048046 I am going to WDC and would like to bring a copy of this with me. Will also gather more signatures on a printed out one. an open letter


Quote:
"Dear Mr. George Bush; :puke:

We the people, have a right to know the truth.

We want you to answer the questions by the Hon. Rep. Conyers and 89 other members of congress, concerning the Blair/ Downing Street memo, your plans for the invasion of Iraq, and the actions you took to distort information, in order to advance your preconceived agenda.

We want to know why Scott McClellan your press secretary, blamed Newsweek magazine, for the actions of policemen in Iraq shooting and killing 15 protesters. Military officials appear to refute your claims, that a statement in the magazine referring to an investigation, of possible disrespect, and inappropriate behavior of an interrogator resulted in this violence.

We want to know who planned this course of action, apparently to further intimidate our media. As a democracy a free and non-partisan media is critical.

We further implore you to encourage unencumbered, investigations into the anomalies of the 2004 presidential elections. Please allow the investigators to examine the vast amount of documentation by voter's rights groups and University professors.

Please make a public statement encourage the media to explore this documentation and report it, without concern of retribution from your administration. We can not have real voter reform, nor restore faith in our democracy without a free press and fair elections. "

[Liberty Belle]

46. Kick!

[calimary]

48. Totally. I've noticed a LOT more frequent mentions of the "I" word

lately. It's no longer taboo. It's no longer unthinkable, or un-dare-able, to bring up. More people are considering it an option.

The CODEPINK folks are now pushing an impeachment campaign in earnest. And they're not alone. Time was that it was something we murmured to each other because we knew we could utter such an idea among friends. It's much more widespread than that, now.

IMPEACHMENT IS AN OPTION.

IMPEACHMENT AND REMOVAL FROM OFFICE.

[noonwitch]

54. It's not going to happen unless dems make major gains in 2006

Or unless something really shocking and big were revealed in clear terms that Congress could not back away from. It would have to be major, too, and the media would have to jump on board with the story.

[MojoXN]

55. It'd be nice if...

The sensible nations of the world started a boycott against America to force * out. I think that the people would rather get rid of the idiot boy-king than become completely isolated, but so far, no dice. <Sigh.>

MojoXN

[AirAmFan]

56. IMHO the PLAME OUTING is the most likely key Watergate-like

event that could eventuate in the impeachment and resignation of Dubya.

The Plame affair has the potential for a CRIMINAL conviction of at least one high WH staffer.

Watergate did not really get rollling until January 1973, when G. Gordon Liddy and James W. McCord were convicted of conspiracy, burglary, and wiretapping. Unfortunately, merely POLITICAL scandals like lying to start a war to kill 100,000 people, conspiring to deprive African-Americans of their right to vote, etc. aren't crimes of Watergate proportions in our Republic. But the Plame outing was a CRIME far more serious than what brought down Liddy and McCord, and raised the key question: "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"
See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1820923 for a thread focusing on how to bring down Dubya and Rove using a Watergate template.