Andrew Sullivan: "Do you take life to save lives....."

[vi5]

Full quote is:
"There is a very clear principle here: do you take life to save lives? My conviction is that you don't."

I'm honestly confounded by this. How do wingnut war supporters say/write this with a straight face? And most definitely he's not the only one. Do they really not see what is at best extreme irony or at worst out and out hypocricy or are they just spinning beyond belief in their own feeble minds and hoping nobody notices this?

I mean honestly even if someone wanted to make the case that taking lives in war will save lives I can simply respectfully disagree. But when it's clear cut beyond hypocritical it just boggles my mind.

[ck4829]

1. War

What is war?

What about those children who saw their parents killed by US forces?

[vi5]

2. Exactly.....

By war I'm playing devil's advocate for the purpose of this discussion. But even using the most generous definition it's still completely and utterly absurd to not see the comparisons or not care.

[bluestateguy]

3. Goo in a dish is not "life"

This isn't even a close call for me.

At least we can be confident that many (blue) state governments will fund this research, as well as many more civilized foreign countries.

[skypilot]

5. He's HIV positive and if that goo in a dish...

...could somehow help him if he got really sick I'd like to hear what he'd have to say then.

[skylarmae]

10. is it common knowledge that he is HIV positive? I hadn't

heard this before. (And I agree with what you said).

[skypilot]

14. I thought it was pretty common knowledge.

Let's just say it's well-known, along with the fact that he used to go trolling on the internet for "bare-back" sex. That's sex WITHOUT condoms. He's an asshole.

[comsymp]

19. Yes, common knowledge

As is his proclivity for going "bareback", as skypilot mentioned.

[hedda_foil]

7. It's not even at the goo stage.

[tanyev]

11. Animal and plant life are far more developed than said goo

in dish, yet I don't hear any Republicans whining that it is evil to take the lives of plants and animals to preserve our own.

[BayouBengal07]

4. Wow.

I never saw that parallel.

I went to an Iraq war debate and asked the pro-war speaker if the doctrine of preemption meant that an American life is inherently more important than an Iraqi life; he said yes, in a way- he'd rather see 1,000 Iraqis die before 1,000 Americans.

You can't win with these people.

[LibInternationalist]

6. even addressing this argument plays into their hands

it is not life. It just isn't.

In a completely irrelevant vein to this stem-cell topic -- yes, in some cases, life should be taken to save lives

[vi5]

8. You're right....

But it doesn't make it fry my brain with it's contradictions any less, even looking at it from their perspective (which is difficult).

I'm with you on both counts though.

[treefrogjohn]

9. What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I recall that the justification for dropping those bombs was that so many more people, especially ours, would be killed if we had to actually invade Japan and conduct a land war. Oh, but those were "different" times, right?

[vi5]

12. Was that to me or rhetorically to Sullivan's point?

I'm not even talking about the issue of taking a life to save a life. I can see people's points on that front. But the clear disconnect between that belief in one area versus the other for the wingnuts is what I find crazy.

[treefrogjohn]

20. Rhetorically to Sullivan's point

I also find the disconnect in beliefs to be crazy and more than a little frustrating. My mind is incapable of supporting two conflicting belief systems.

[LibInternationalist]

15. One of my best friends' grand-fathers

was to be in the first wave of the invasion of Japan, so (with a little personal bias, granted) I do think that IF the bombs had been necessary to prevent the deaths of many more people than the bombs killed, they were justifiable.

Sadly, now that more information has come out, it does not seem to have been the opinion of many experts at the time that the bombs were necessary.

[Inland]

13. Bush, making the world safe for hypocrisy

one issue at a time. What a dick.

[rniel]

16. That guy is an annoying idiot

He's on Bil Maher sometimes I can't stand him. He's just a right winger that sometimes tries to play both sides of the fence.

[seabeyond]

17. welcome to our world, andrew...... n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

18. !$*(@#&

I'm so sick of this crap

first off it's sitting in a frozen dish, it's not life unless it's implanted and can "vampire" essential nutrients from a woman's body!

Walking my daughter to school this morning I heard the crossing guard talking on another Mom. Now this Mom regularly prays right on the street with the crossing guard! (with her head down I might add.. hello KIDS CROSSING)

She said "I remember seeing something back in Highschool in biology about the moment conception begins the heart starts beating."

This is all in regards to stem cells.

I've had my nerves rattled the last few days, I think I finally lost it.

"First off, if I ovulate and I destroying life? I mean this is what we are talking about. An egg that is not even fertlized, it's a chicken.
2ndly
My great grandmother had Alzheimer's which mean it's highly possible that I or My mother, might not know their own child in 10 or 20 years.

Will you allow my child to suffer with a mother who does not know her? Will you tell her we are going to throw these eggs away, and you just have to suffer with a Mother and grandmother who can't remember your name, your first word, your wedding, the birth of your child. The whole exsistance of your life gone, sitting in a trash bin.

Or How about If it was in your power, would you not give your life for that of your LIVING child? would you not save her? Would you not give her an egg if it meant she'd walk again? She's breath on her own? Do you think she wouldn't give you her egg so you'd remember her face when she walked into a room?

Having lived it I would give an entire ovary, if it meant I would get to walk into my Great Grandmother's room and be recongized, loved and remembered. "

The two sort of sat there staring at me, not sure what to say. I didn't wait around for an answer, I think if given the choice, they too would of given an egg to save their child.