Is Tom Cruise a doctor?

[im10ashus]

Where did I miss that on his resume?

http://entertainment.msn.com/beacon/editorial1.aspx?ptid=c9fd7823-0d52-4e93-901b-7a696d91c31e>1=6542



Has Tom Cruise received a medical degree in his spare time? The megastar is openly questioning the treatment Brooke Shields received for her crippling postpartum depression, a struggle she details in her new memoir, "Down Came the Rain."

Tom, sticking close to Scientology's anti-psychiatry party line, believes Shields, despite experiencing what she has described as suicidal thoughts, should have avoided taking the anti-depressant drug Paxil following the birth of her daughter, Rowan, in 2003.
"These drugs are dangerous. I have actually helped people come off," Cruise proselytizes, er, says, in an interview with Access Hollywood set to air Thursday (via the New York Daily News). "When you talk about postpartum, you can take people today, women, and what you do is you use vitamins."

According to Dr. Tom, "There is a hormonal thing that is going on, scientifically, you can prove that. But when you talk about emotional, chemical imbalances in people, there is no science behind that. You can use vitamins to help a woman through those things."
(And somewhere, a "War of the Worlds" marketing exec smacks his forehead and tries to convince himself that moms really won't comprise too much of the movie's opening weekend audience.)

[Ron Green]

1. Yeah, he's a doctor. Didn't you see "Eyes Wide Shut?"

[Stephanie]

7. Not. That was the LEAST sexy sex scene ever.

Horrible! Lucky Nicole to get away from him!

[madrchsod]

11. eye`s wide shut?

the kubric had to direct them how to "act" like they were "in love". if you watch this film you`ll see just how cold those two were to each other.

[samsingh]

31. i noticed a total lack of chemistry between them

in that movie. thought i was imagining things.

it was the first time i noticed how sizzling hot Nicole was though when she was dancing.

[patcox2]

139. There is a lack of chemistry between him and any living thing.

he is a lump, so totally lacking in charisma its amazing. Indicative of the complete lack of culture in our society that anyone thinks this callow, stupid child-man can act. He is the male equivalent of the pathetic girl-child image that men lust after. Peter pan?

[SCDem]

2. In that same line

Chiropracters are now telling people that children don't need immunizations they just need to come to Chiropracters. :shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

13. OMG my Aunt is that way

she believes chiropractors can cure ear infections just by spinal manipulation.:scared:

On edit: She is a lovely person, a Democrat, just misguided.

[Radio_Lady]

80. Boy, I once spoke with a chiropractor about "vertebral subluxation" --

what a bunch of "spinal crap"!!!

[Ravenseye]

29. Not all of them

Some are real quacks. One of my best friends though is a chiropracter but not one of the manipulation ones...anyway he's getting his kids vaccinated. We talkeda bout it. He thinks Chiropractors that tell people that should be imprisoned.

[SCDem]

37. Oh yeah I didn't mean to imply all of them

Sorry about that... I just work across the hall from people who work in newborn screening and there are a growing number of "educated" parents that are not immunizing their children and instead sending them to chiropractors.

[Ravenseye]

41. Yeah Those Ones Are Bad Bad Bad

I mean...nothing against Chiropracty but while it will make my back feel better when I get it treated (hey when you have a friend that's one and it's free...) but it seems like just really advanced massage what he does.

The whole spinal manipulation thing though...no way. That whole thing is quackery in my opinion.

And people taking babies to get manipulated...wow...just wrong.

[tanyev]

3. Run, Katie, run!

Run as fast as you can and don't look back. You can do much better than Tom.

[im10ashus]

4. LMAO!

I wonder if his boyfriend likes Katie. Seriously though. WTF gives him the right to dispense medical advice? Psychiatric advice at that.

[ET Awful]

6. He's a scientologist, he is taught that all psychology is evil as is

all conseling and all psychiatric medicine of any kind.

The only thing that works is "tech" as laid down by L. Ron Hubbard.

Dangerous shit.

[im10ashus]

9. Is there a link to that information?

I find that to be some frightening shit.

[Stephanie]

15. All you have to do is go to Grand Central

when they are offering Free Stress Tests! And then the Scientologists hook you up to a little metal machine, and evaluate your stress level! And then, they will offer their diagnosis, which is that yes indeed, you are stressed! And the remedy is that you join their cult. Try it! I'll watch.

[im10ashus]

19. Want to?

I would get a kick out of telling them where to stick their advice.

[Stephanie]

22. Yeah sure

As long as it's you that gets hooked up and not me! Next time they're over there we'll do it.

(im10ashus & I are RL friends, if anyone's confused. I seem to have gotten him hopelessly addicted to DU!)

[im10ashus]

24. It's a deal.

And I'm not addicted. I'm not! I SWEAR!

[samsingh]

32. don't forget you have to write a big check too.

[DoYouEverWonder]

56. Of course after they evaluate you

you will need to take all of these classes, that cost a fair bit of money, and then you have to work all the time in order to pay for the classes, and of course they are happy to let you work for them, and if you are lucky you get a few hours off once a week to spend in your spartan room with no money to spend so you can't go anywhere.

Unless of course, if you are rich already, like Tom, then you get to hang our with the upper level folks right away and you don't have to go through the bs to get there.

What a crew of wackos.

[LostinVA]

63. Join their cult and pay a zillion dollars n/t

[ET Awful]

26. Try here

www.clambake.org

Why clambake you ask? Because L. Ron once taught his followers that mankind is descended from bi-valve creatures . . . i.e. clams. :)

[tanyev]

120. Or read one of his vile sci-fi novels and his

utter contempt for psychiatry will soon be apparent.

[elehhhhna]

16. His BF probably selected Katie...porr thing. She's being taken for a

ride. Hope she's stocking up on vitamins to help her through the inevitable dumping.

[Javaman]

50. that and penicilian...

[LostinVA]

62. That's why Kirstie Alley would never go on "Fraser" as a guest

Because Fraser was a psychiatrist. She said some really nasty stuff about the profession and the people who go to them.

Kelly Preston, too. She needs to shut the hell up about stuff. She's always quoting "medical" studies done to prove Scientology's claims.

RUN KATIE, RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!!!

[LondonReign2]

83. Yeah, but Kelly Preston is hot, so all is forgiven!

:evilgrin:

[Scurrilous]

5. Scientology: Finding Gay Actors Wives Since 1978

:thumbsup:

[elehhhhna]

17. True fact!

[Richard Steele]

107. BWAAA HAAA HAAAAAA!!!!!!

:rofl:

(that was so very WRONG to say that, but DAMN LOL!)

[GCP]

8. And when some woman kills her baby while in the depths of postpartum

depression, will he say she was vitamin deprived?
He's a useless waste of oxygen and should keep his ignorant yap shut. :grr:

[im10ashus]

14. Sadly, that will be the case.

He needs to be careful what he says. There are WAY too many young, impressionable women who are just naive enough to listen to this crap.

[UdoKier]

10. Although I prefer natural approaches over drugs...

...it isn't always enough.

And Tom Cruise is the absolute LAST person I would go to for advice. He is shallow, self-absorbed and artificial. When he dragged that little Katie girl onto Oprah the other day it really reminded me of Michael Jackson & Lisa Marie Presley's staged kiss - totally insincere and for show, not to mention, that he seemed to have no regard for the actual human being inhabiting that cute young body, his only thought was HIMSELF, and showing off what a young, sexy thing he's got now, (and possibly, how hetero he really really is, and that the rumors are not true)

He's an awful actor and a very annoying person. I wish he would just retire, but no, he never ever tires of giving wooden performances, or of blathering endlessly to interviewers about his opinions on EVERYTHING, and trying to characterize his shallow, tacky excuse for a life as some sort of spiritual journey.

:puke:

[Flying Dream Blues]

28. Well said...I feel the same way.

What a sham! How stupid does he think Americans are??? Hmmm, ah, yeah, good strategery, Tom.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

33. Years ago he used to reside in the same apt. bldg. in NYC as my

in-laws, and he had been seen bringing many a young man home. It really is sad in this day and age he must protest too much and use these women (include P. Cruz) to prove that he is straight.

[valis]

12. Tom Cruise is a fucking idiot.

[elehhhhna]

20. And...

fucking an idiot, as well.

Po' kid.

[donheld]

68. Well at least he's a fucking idiot

I guess that's better than a plain old ordinary idiot. :shrug::evilgrin:

[Jack The Tab]

18. Why in the world would he feel the need to comment on this?

I know his cult says psychology and psychiatry are bad, but still..to open his mouth in public about this shit?

What a fucknut.

[Stephanie]

23. When you are a cult member, you do what you are told.

[mzmolly]

21. I am opposed to all or nothing thinking on this matter. For some vitamins

are helpful for others perhaps not so.

I am not one to believe all that the drug companies taut nor am I one to think there is never a benefit to pharma drugs.

[Ravenseye]

35. The point is though...

...that he's not someone who should be commenting on a medical condition.

Post-Partum Depression is a REAL thing and talking like he does will no doubt affect women struggling with this very REAL medical problem.

It's a normal thing. Some women don't need drugs, some do. Almost all women have some sort of PPD, and 7 out of 10 would actually be diagnosed by it if there wasn't such a cultural bias against it.

People expect women to have babies and be perfect little mommies immediately. The hormonal changes, as well as mental and emotional changes, that happen to a women in this period though are EXTREME and this sort of glowing happy dandy reaction is NOT normal.

What's normal is to be sad, angry, or somethign negative for the first week or more. It can last for months. It's normal and shouldn't be looked down upon. Because it happens to so many women, but people don't talk about it, they bottle it up and feel even worse, even more of a failure than they already feel. They're not failures though. It's a medical and treatable condition.

Screw you Tom Cruise. Go back to your fucking cult and stop hurting women.

[im10ashus]

40. Well said.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990415ap/2247.html

Postpartum major depression occurs in approximately one of 10 childbearing women and is considerably underdiagnosed. If left untreated, the disorder can have serious adverse effects on the mother and her relationship with significant others, and on the child's emotional and psychologic development. A simple screening instrument can be used to increase the detection of postpartum major depression. Although few well-controlled studies have been done to support the use of any one modality, the mainstay of treatment has been antidepressant therapy, alone or in combination with psychotherapy. Plasma concentrations of antidepressant drugs are usually low in the breast-fed infant, and most studies demonstrate that certain antidepressants can be used during lactation without any important adverse effects on the infant.

contd.

[mzmolly]

45. I had a degree of postpartum depression, and have taken "drugs"

for depression before ever having a child. No need to slap the link in my face, I agree that it's a matter of personal choice mmmk? ;)

I don't think however that drug companies always have our best interest at heart. And I do think that vitamins can be very helpful for some.

I really don't like TC taking a hard line position on this, or anyone for that matter. We should be able to choose our medical approaches individually.

To my understanding, because a celeb like Brooke Shields is now tauting pharmas as a way to cope with depression, he was asked for his opinion and gave it.

[im10ashus]

53. I don't believe I was replying to you in the first place.

I was replying to someone else. And slapping a link in your face? I was providing a link to a professional point of view regarding PPD. I don't think I once advocated the use of pharmaceuticals nor did I advocate Brooke's use of pharmas. My sister suffered from PPD before it was even a part of our lexicon and depression was a part of her daily life until she sought professional help. She was treated with anti-depressants and is now a functioning adult again. If you want to use your homeopathic therapy, cheers to you, but how about putting a link where your mouth is so we can see some hard evidence about vitamin therapy in relation to PPD. I'm just saying! :shrug:

[mzmolly]

97. True enough.

Here is a or two link if you'd like.

http://www.mama2mama.org/ppd.html#links

There is much information about alternative therapies this is just one quickie link.

Regardless, I am glad your sister is doing well. ;)

[im10ashus]

106. Good golly, Mz. Molly! Thank you.

And thank you for the link. I was on my way home and there was a woman on the train who was apparently schizophrenic and it got me wondering what schizophrenics would do without meds. It was sad really, but given the topic of conversation here, I thought it worth mentioning. Have you heard of any reports of soy milk containing estrogen? My partner and I use soy regularly, in our coffee, smoothies, etc. I definitely would like to find any links discussing this. Thanks again.

[mzmolly]

110. I hear ya!

;)

I have heard that natural soy is ok, but I stay away from it now knowing it's estrogenic and they don't always grow it organically anyhoo. LOL, I used to eat lots of it when I was a vegan. Now I'm more into grass fed. locally raised, organic meats ~ humanly raised and slaughtered (if there is such a thing.)

Ya can't eat anything these days without worry so as of late, I just have at it!

[im10ashus]

113. What natural soy products would you recommend.

My partner says whey products, but these are from animal too, I believe. Time to do a google.

[mzmolly]

118. Here's one?

They're supposed to be organic.

http://www.vitasoy-usa.com/

[mzmolly]

43. I agree. I like Tom in many ways ... he's a Democrat, but

I don't like his "all or nothing" thinking on this matter, as I stated.

[tishaLA]

25. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PET THE CRUISE!

The Cruise Will Become Agitated!



And Will Attack You in A Very Closeted Way



Thank You!

[im10ashus]

27. NICE!

He's such a joke.

[Flying Dream Blues]

30. OMG...he really DID make an ass of himself, huh...

I had not seen this, only heard an excerpt on the radio which was enough to make me :puke:

[LizW]

36. What the heck is happening there? n/t

[tishaLA]

39. It's just Mr. Cruise acting batty on Oprah this week

he was a little full of Red Bull or something. Maybe vitamins.

[Dorian Gray]

114. Red Bull, huh?

He sure was batty! Wish that I had actually caught it when it showed! BATHOS!

[UdoKier]

42. "I'm so happy! and Successful! and Virile! and straight! REALLY!"

"Everything's right in the world, right? You believe me, right? I believe me! REALLY!

I love Katie, and not in the way Rosie always used to claim to love me. REALLY!"


As though this shell of a user of a man knows ANYTHING about love....

[GCP]

49. Was he on crack or crystal during this interview?

From all the press reports he was very hyper. :eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. So is Microsoft Network now trying to push Scientology? n/t

[Missy Vixen]

38. It is now clear to me why Nicole Kidman

finally had enough of this dumbass.

>"When you talk about postpartum, you can take people today, women, and what you do is you use vitamins."<

Uh-huh. Vitamin therapy.

I'll bet Andrea Yates is glad for the update.

Julie
is is too much to hope for that this will be the "Moment of Zen" on the Daily Show?

[im10ashus]

44. Should we forward to them?

I know they've been on repeats all this week and last. Do you have an email address?

[Missy Vixen]

55. im10ashus, I don't

We could probably find one at Comedy Central's website, though.

I can only imagine the look on Jon Stewart's face while reading this one.

Julie

[blondeatlast]

128. Sadly, they are all reruns this week.

Damn, because this would be a fine one.

[Imagine My Surprise]

46. Yeah, he's also straight, too.

NOT.

[Jack_DeLeon]

47. No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[progressivebydesign]

58. Okay.. now THAT was funny!!! n/t

[EvolveOrConvolve]

48. I nominate Tom Cruise

For Brainwashed Idiot Of The Year. Scientology would be a joke if it wasn't so dangerous. Nicole Kidman made the right choice leaving this loser. I hope she has custodial control of the kids they adopted. You surely don't want this numbnuts in charge of their medical care.

I definitely won't be seeing any of his movies in the near future. The same goes for John Travolta and any other actor with ties to this malicious group of nutjobs. I don't give a shit if Cruise is gay, or vain, or self-centered, or a mindless pretty boy. Plenty of people look up to him as a public figure, and this sort of advice is dangerous to those adoring fans who take his word as nearly that of god.

[HughBeaumont]

51. He's kind of a tool.

I was in Dupont Circle last week and saw the Church of Scientology. I had to laugh at it.

[Javaman]

52. Smarmy just like his character in Magnolia....

I get two things from cruise, the feeling that he's about to explode and the feeling that he's about to go on a killing spree.
Oh wait, and the fact that he's a know it all, oh and that he has a short temper, oh wait one more thing, that he's about to go on killing spree, huh, I said that already, funny how it came up twice...

Tom put the knife down and step back...

[TNOE]

54. My God

reading this thread is like a trip to Freepville.

I don't know if Tom Cruise is gay or not, nor do I care - what's that got to do with anything? He was married for 10 years. I don't particularly like him because I think he is too phony and too needy of his fan base and of women in general. Personally I can't respect a person who was married, fell in love with a co-star, divorced his wife married co-star, and then repeat except he was at least smart enough to not marry the 2nd one.

However, I am surprised at all the close-mindedness here. First of all, when my nephew needed a physical for football and my brother-in-law waited too long to get him into his regular physician, he was forced to take his son, who suffered from horrific allergies to a chiropractor for the physical. The doc said he could fix his allergies "for good" with a simple adjustment and did just that - my brother-in-law said he would have never believed it except he saw it for himself and 10 years later, he's a college grad that hasn't taken an allergy med for the past 10 years.

2nd of all - maybe vitamins would be very helpful for post-par tum - it certainly wouldn't hurt for a woman to read up on it - but I don't think any woman is going to say I've got this post-par tum but Tom Cruise told me not to take anti-depressants. Please give the women population a little more credit.

Thirdly - VACCINATIONS are NOT safe - I have friends whose grandchildren were born perfectly well but after vaccinations were all of a sudden autistic, or mentally retarded. Those vaccinations are full of mercury - which we know is horrible for the human body.

All this to say - I'm just really surprised at the close-mindedness - liberals generally aren't this close-minded, especially in regards to anything natural, such as vitamins. That option is much more sensible to be thoroughly looked at before jumping immediately on powerful anti-depressants which are known to have all kinds of side effects.

[Stephanie]

57. Tom Cruise instructs Brooke Shields to follow his cult teachings

instead of her doctor's advice - that's presumptuous and patronizing and annoying. I think most of us are leery of big pharma, respectful of natural healing and vitamin therapies, and open to new ideas on health. But no woman should have to take advice on post-partum depression from an idiot like Tom Cruise. That's all. It's offensive.

[im10ashus]

59. I'm not opposed to vitamins, I take them every day.

And I certainly am NOT pro-pharma. I think every case is an individualized situation and no two therapies work the same way. Depression runs in my family. My sister was the only one, that I know of, to have used meds. They worked for her with no side-effects, but I am sure the case would be different for all. I am also anti-vaccination, for one, and don't see anyone on this thread being close-minded about this at all. I don't think anyone here is even CLOSE to being considered a Freeper.

[TNOE]

66. Not saying they are freepers of course

but lines like these strike me as being very close-minded. It's medicine and the human body - much of which we really know little about and chiropractery has been around for hundreds of years, just maybe they know something the medical profession doesn't:

Chiropracters are now telling people that children don't need immunizations they just need to come to Chiropracters.

she believes chiropractors can cure ear infections just by spinal manipulation.

Sorry about that... I just work across the hall from people who work in newborn screening and there are a growing number of "educated" parents that are not immunizing their children and instead sending them to chiropractors.

The whole spinal manipulation thing though...no way. That whole thing is quackery in my opinion.

Of course, these are just people's opinions without real life experience. I just happen to know from personal experience that indeed a Chiroprachter did alleviate my nephew's allergies with a manipulation - so perhaps it could cure ear infections and I for one would be one of those "educated" parents refusing to get my child immunized after seeing what immunization has done to so many originally healthy children.

I just seriously doubt the women population is stupid enough to listen to what Tom Cruise says is all. He can say whatever he wants and believe whatever he wants, all I'm saying is - maybe he has a point, hopefully there have been or will be studies done on it and if vitamins or a combination of vitamins do help post-partum, that would be a good thing. I'm just not so sure taking a woman who is post partum and putting her on strong anti-depressants when her hormones are no doubt out of whack (been there, done that, but luckily only lasted 3 days) - may in fact be dangerous. But certainly not getting any help would be the most dangerous of all.

[im10ashus]

67. I don't particularly want anyone manipulating my back either.

I just think it's not a good idea for Tom Cruise, who by the way would have NO experience as a woman or a doctor, giving "sage" advice on this subject. I am not sure what the chiropractor versus immunization thing is, this is the first I've heard of it. I have a good friend whose sister and brother-in-law are raising their child as a vegan, and not immunizing, and I like the idea.

[Spider Jerusalem]

65. Two words: anecdotal evidence.

And you apparently don't know much about how the human brain develops, eihter; autism, and certain forms of mental retardation, don't manifest until the age of eighteen months to three years; coincidentally, roughly the same age children receive vaccinations. However, the neurological differences present in these conditions are of such a degree that the causes MUST have been present in the womb. And no vaccines currently manufactured contain thimerosal (the mercury preservative you're thinking of), and they haven't for several years now.

There's a rather large difference between being closed-minded and knowing something just isn't so.

[Pithlet]

69. Thank you thank you thank you

A million times. Well said. The kind of misinformation you responded to is dangerous.

[Spider Jerusalem]

74. Dangerous indeed...

I have to wonder WHAT is going through the minds of parents who decideto forego vaccinating their children; are they totally unaware of what childhood mortality rates were BEFORE vaccination was commonplace? If the chance of serious side effect from vaccination is 1 in 100,000, and the chance of disfigurement, death, or, for males, sterility (from mumps) is 1 in 100, do you really have to THINK about that? The fact that people even consider it is a sign of how successful vaccination has been; these diseases are now so relatively rare that they don't think about the consequences of not vaccinating, or don't even know what they are.

[Pithlet]

81. They are unaware

We've lived so long in an environment where these diseases no longer occur that we've become complacent. We also live in an era where misinformation is spread so quickly and efficiently. Combine the two, and you have a disaster. I hope it doesn't take these deadly and disfiguring diseases reemerging to knock some sense into people. Polio is starting to reemerge in parts of the world due to ignorance about vaccinations. Scary.

[TNOE]

75. Well you would be a great "defense" expert for

the pharmaceutical companies in all the lawsuits being filed from parents whose children were perfectly normal until vacinations. Certainly if the answer is that easily clarified - then it should be made obvious to these parents that their kids were going to get autisim and be mentally retarded all of a sudden at age 4. Pray tell then how does a child who walks and talks and laughs and plays all of a sudden FORGET everything after a vaccination and then doesn't walk or talk or understand anymore?

[Spider Jerusalem]

Correlation is not causation.

The fact that condition A manifests after event B doesn't mean that there's a cause/effect relationship. There have been repeated studies which have shown no link between autism and vaccination, and there's been some fairly recent neurological research that's indicated that the differences in the brains of autistics are present from the time of tissue differentiation in utero. You'll have to forgive me if I put a bit more stock in these findings than in the sort of thinking that led people in the middle ages to believe that flies were spontaneously generated from rotting meat.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm

[TNOE]

84. You are basing your opinion as an absolute fact

Based on one study done in Japan???? I always love it when they never tell you who happens to be funding the study done. Have you ever noticed that when a study is done with let's say the outcome that cigarettes are not known to contribute to lung cancer - the study was funded by a tobacco conglomerate?

From the article you posted:

However, autism campaigners said they would want to see more conclusive proof from UK-based studies before being convinced the jab was safe.

But Jackie Fletcher of the campaign group Jabs, said: "Instead of relying on research carried out abroad, we would like the government to actually clinically investigate the 1,700 children believed to have been affected by the MMR jab in the UK.


You have spoken here as an authority on the subject - based on something you have read (? if that be the case) - however, real life situations seem to be quite different. This study only relates to autisium - not mental retardation. The child I am speaking of was fine, normal, laughed, talked, walked, understood, and after a vaccination - nothing, can't walk, can't talk, doesn't seem to understand - THIS I have seen with my own eyes - while after going to one lawyer after the other are told - "You won't win, we can't go up against the drug companies, sorry". So sorry your perfectly normal kid is now a special needs and the burden to you is going to be enormous - but oh well - thank God this child didn't get the mumps!!!!

[im10ashus]

85. Vaccinations are a hot topic apparently.

I worked in a law office in Chicago and one of our cases was for a girl who developed thrombocytopenic purpura (low blood platelets) from the MMR vaccination. She has a WHOLE lot of medical issues as a result. I don't have children. But if I did, I would SERIOUSLY consider an alternative. IMHO.

[Spider Jerusalem]

86. Not just on one study done in Japan, no.

On studies done in Finland, the UK, the US...all of which had the same conclusions. The link IN posted was representative, as all of the other studies came to the same conclusion.

I happen to be a high-functioning autistic myself, so naturally I had a bit of an interest in the subject; I researched it and read pretty extensively, and I don't see any evidence to support the claims of the anti-vaccination lunatics.

And there are forms of mental retardation that involve the loss of previously acquired abilities of speech and so on; as I said, correlation proves nothing, and anecdotal evidence also proves nothing. And even if the vaccine WERE at fault, this is one case out of ten or a hundred thousand. As a pragmatist, I'd say those are better odds than those for unvaccinated children.

[TNOE]

89. You don't support your cause well when you are

so condescending - using terms such as "lunatics", etc.

You have studies to support your theories, there are studies that support others - your view is not the definitive end or answer to the situation. Personally, "lunatic" or not - I would definitely think twice or three times before having a child or mine vaccinated again.

http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=NOVACCINES-12-05-01&cat=AN

SNIP:
Perhaps the most high-profile debate involving vaccines stems from suspicions linking measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to autism. Many parents of autistic children say their children seemed normal until soon after the first inoculation, typically given between 12 and 18 months of age.

Last year, the House Committee on Government Reform held lengthy hearings to explore the possible link. The panel chairman, Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., told the story of his own grandson who was diagnosed with autism soon after getting immunized, and called for more research.

The federal government has asked the national Institute of Medicine to set up a committee to analyze theories about immunization safety concerns.

Meanwhile, the 20-year-old National Vaccine Information Center, a parent-led safety organization, has called for a congressional investigation into the nation's mass-vaccination program.
"We believe the one-size-fits-all approach does not acknowledge biodiversity," said Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder and president of the center. The center played a role in the Food and Drug Administration decision in 1996 to develop a safer vaccine against pertussis, or whooping cough.

Concerns have been raised about possible links between inoculations and a range of conditions, including juvenile diabetes, asthma, attention deficit disorder and sudden infant death syndrome. Medical experts say there is no firm evidence to support such claims. They say all vaccines carry some risks, but only for a fraction of the population.

http://www.rense.com/politics4/vac.htm
SNIP:
Because of the large number of reported adverse effects, the U.S. Public Health Service and the American Academy of Pediatrics, or AAP, have changed their policy advisories favoring vaccination of newborns with the hepatitis B vaccine and instead have adopted a new policy recommending that mothers be tested during pregnancy for the disease. If the mother tests negative, the vaccination of the child may be delayed for as many as six months. . . . . Kennedy also urged in his testimony that "informed consent for certain vaccines, such as hepatitis A and hepatitis B, should be considered and the parents allowed to choose based on their perceived risk to benefit from vaccinating their infants." .

. . . Many parents, newly informed of potentially harmful effects of some of the "required" vaccines, are becoming increasingly outraged at demands being made in the name of public health. Mandatory-inoculations opponents note that vaccines are made from toxic materials. When informed, parents tend to resist having such materials injected into their children. . . . .

For instance, some of the toxic ingredients used in vaccines include thimerasol, a mercury-based preservative; aluminum, an additive to promote antibody response that has been associated with Alzheimer's disease and seizures and found to cause cancer in laboratory mice; formaldehyde, another carcinogen; and phenol, also known as carbolic acid, used as a disinfectant and dye. . . . .

NOTE - THIS SAYS THIMERASOL WAS USED - damn - forgot brackets don't show up!

But this catalog is only the beginning. The vaccines are grown and strained through human or animal tissue, including monkey kidney, chicken embryo, embryonic guinea-pig cells, calf serum and human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted fetuses used in the rubella, hepatitis A and chicken-pox vaccines). Concern is growing that interspecies transfer of viral infections from animals may be a source of adverse reactions. . . . . And there have been adverse reactions from the beginning. In the late 1700s,

[Spider Jerusalem]

94. Once again, so that you understand it:

Autism is typically "invisible" until the age of 14-18 months or so. There are usually NO obvious developmental abnormalities until that age. This is also the age at which most children receive their first vaccinations. And parents want something to blame. This doesn't mean that they're right; there was a Scandinavian study that tracked vaccinated and unvaccinated children, and found higher rates of autism in the UNvaccinated population. And I'm sorry you have a problem with my use of the word "lunatic", but the only OTHER word that seems appropriate for people who choose to reject the evidence of several independent studies, conducted by organisations NOT affiliated with pharmaceutical companies, is "idiot".

[TNOE]

96. Once again

you are still ONLY addressing "autism" - and I am addressing a variety of purported possible side effects.

I'm not REJECTING one study or the other - I am taking it all in and am left "unconvinced" of your studies. Tis my right thank you. I no longer trust my government or my country or the pharmaceutical industry. You do - great - to your own peril. That is the great thing about America - we all get to decide - vaccinate - yes/no? And let it be a personal decision. I would rather MY child get a case of the mumps than have their brain/life snatched away. Just me though. I have never known a functioning autistic - but if that be the case - good for you.

[Pithlet]

98. And 'tis others' right

to point out where you're wrong. Because it isn't just getting a minor disease that is at stake. Millions of lives have been saved by vaccinations. A bunch of people saw a correlation, and despite the fact there is NO evidence that their is a causation, they cling to the notion that there is one, and the myth spreads like a bad urban legend on the ineternet.

A parent's decision to risk their own child by not vaccinating them affects other people as well. As a parent, I have the right to point out the risks of that decision, because it could affect me as well. A decision that is based in no way on science. The more unvaccinated children, the greater the possibility that diseases like polio will return. Like I said in another post, they already are in parts of the world. It's only a matter of time until it shows up in the developed world. And all because too many people don't understand the difference between correlation and causation, and stubbornly stick to their own misguided notions, and fears of things they don't understand.

[TNOE]

100. If you want to inject your kid with this shit

....For instance, some of the toxic ingredients used in vaccines include thimerasol, a mercury-based preservative; aluminum, an additive to promote antibody response that has been associated with Alzheimer's disease and seizures and found to cause cancer in laboratory mice; formaldehyde, another carcinogen; and phenol, also known as carbolic acid, used as a disinfectant and dye

go right ahead, not me. FDR did just fine with polio - better to have polio than a child with a blank stare for the next 40 years.

Personally - I don't have to worry about it - mine is grown, but I do suspect I'll have grandchildren - and when that time comes, I will strongly advise its mother against vaccinations - until there are DEFINITIVE studies and DEFINITIVE proof that the ingredients in the vaccinations will ABSOLUTELY 100% CAUSE NO HARM, then they can inject.

[Pithlet]

101. Fine

I hope your children will listen to their doctor and do what is right. Because your fears are not founded. There is absolutely no proof that vaccinations are so dangerous that it is better to risk diseases like polio and small pox, diseases that can kill. And your insistance that FDR did just fine with polio -again, nothing personal against you- is evidence that you don't understand what you're talking about.

I'm sorry. It's nothing personal. Parents who don't vaccinate are taking an unnecessary risk. And people who spout off about the dangers of vaccines and scare people away from them are doing everyone a great harm. Because it is 100% assured that millions children will die if vaccines are eradicated. How is that for odds?

[TNOE]

105. Perhaps if I had not known

this particular child I've been speaking of, maybe I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But a beautiful, beautiful little curly blond haired girl with great big blue eyes who laughed and talked and was so full of life and promise become basically a vegetable, I might not be so hardheaded about this. The parents and grandparents are POSITIVE it was the vaccination, proving it has been another story. Certainly if the doctors could prove it wasn't the vaccine, they would wouldn't they?

And she is not the only one, but the one that I looked at and said "no way, never again". At least FDR could not only read, think and talk but actually run a country - this little girl is going to know nothing of the sort. She's going to be a vegetable. If someone could show me the positive of that, I might change my mind.

Perhaps the bigger issue - the compromise that would make all happy - would be to insist the drug manufacturers completely eliminate the harmful chemicals. Don't tell me that the vaccines must have what is basically considered "poison" to work, certainly the world is more technologically advanced than that.

[Pithlet]

109. I truly could not blame

a parent for blaming a vaccine when they see their beautiful child suffer. There is no way for them to know otherwise, and it is too intensely personal to even try to convince them otherwise. I would never even try.

I agree with you that drug manufacturers must be made to make their vaccines, as well as all other drugs, safe. Any questionable additive that isn't completely necessary for function should be moved, and the drug companies forced to do so. But, the growing trend of parents deciding to forgo immunizations is based on widespread panic that isn't based on anything scientific. I would hate to see these diseases come back for that reason, and for innocent children to suffer.

[trotsky]

123. Some knowledge you are missing.

1) Thimerosal: an ethylmercury compound. Because of its formulation, the body eliminates it within days, as opposed to methylmercury compounds (like those found in pollution, fish, etc.) which hangs around for months.

2) Aluminum: Sorry, but no causal link has been found between aluminum and Alzheimer's. http://www.alzheimers-research.org/faq.htm
Q. I have read that aluminum may be involved in Alzheimer's. Should I avoid using products containing aluminum?

Ans. The brain tissue of AD patients indeed exhibit higher than usual concentrations of aluminum, bromide and silicon. It's role as a causative agent, however, has not been shown in clinical studies. Canada, where water systems are routinely made of aluminum, does not have a higher incidence of AD than, say, Zambia where aluminum is rarely used in any capacity.

3) Formaldehyde: Surprise! Our bodies MANUFACTURE formaldehyde as a waste product. It's only considered a carcinogen in vapor form anyway, so even if the miniscule amount in a vaccination were significant compared to what the body makes on its own, it's still not dangerous.

4) Phenol: Only found in one type of pneumococcal vaccine and a salmonella vaccine. No need to use it for fearmongering.

Hope this helps.

[alarimer]

126. The diseases are much, much worse than the vaccines

If a polio vaccine was available at the time, don't you think FDR would have preffered not to become paralyzed?? It is hard to imagine in this day and age because we are so far removed from the terror that those diseases caused. Before the advent of vaccines, many children didn't even live long enough to become autistic, if that was their fate. Vaccines have saved millions of lives if not more. Those anti-vaccine people want to return to the days when children DIED routinely. They are irresponsible, even criminal.

[earth mom]

77. How convenient then that thimerosal was taken OUT of vaccines for infants

not to long ago. :eyes: And funny how the upswing in Autism mirrored the use of thimerosal in infant MMR vaccinations for years-NOT! :grr:

[Spider Jerusalem]

82. The only problem with that is that thimerosal was never IN the MMR vaccine

so you apparently don't know what you're talking about...

[earth mom]

117. Oh Yeah? Since when? I'd say it's YOU who doesn't know

what you're talking about.

So now the drug companies are LYING and saying it wasn't in there in the first place? Why am I not surprised since there are millions of dollars at stake and we ALL know how greedy those pharmaceutical companies are.



Some Links FYI

Gene flaw may link autism, vaccine additive

http://www.marytocco.com/news.htm

"Pharmaceutical companies removed thimerosal from required vaccines in 2002, but it still exists in most of the recommended influenza shots."

Bush Asks Court To Seal MMR Vaccine Records

http://foi.missouri.edu/secretcourts/sealvaccine.html

"We're dealing with real injury to real children in a program that is funded by taxpayer dollars," said Michael R. Hugo, a Boston lawyer. "It is unbelievable to me that the president of the United States, in the name of trying to help the drug industry, would put the interests of the drug industry over the interests of neurologically impaired sick children and their parents."

Nothing to hide, right? :eyes:

[trotsky]

129. You didn't contradict what SJ said.

The MMR vaccine does not contain thimerosal. Your links didn't dispute that, but you said that it did. Please support your claim or withdraw it.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-thimerosal.htm#11

11. Do measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines contain thimerosal?

No, MMR vaccine does not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.

[earth mom]

140. The link I posted clearly refutes SJ's claim.

How convenient now that the government and the big pharmaceutical companies are saying there is no thimerosal now or previously. FYI-I started my research on this issue in 2000 and there WAS thimerosal in the vaccinations then. Now suddenly there is not?! Give me a break! Obviously the cdc is in bed with the pharmaceutical giants. Millions or is it billions? of dollars matter more than childrens welfare.

My position stands. I withdraw nothing. :eyes:

[trotsky]

141. I think you're confused.

You are confusing "vaccinations" with one specific vaccine. Your initial post, which drew SJ's response, linked thimerosal in the MMR vaccine with disease. Both SJ and I have told you that there never was thimerosal in MMR, but you persist in your claims. That's fine, plenty of people hold opinions that are not based on any factual reality.

[earth mom]

143. Yes plenty of people like you and SJ hold opinions

that are NOT based in factual reality. I'm not confused whatsover. Perhaps you should question yourself and your motives.

[trotsky]

145. Hehe, OK.

You said:

funny how the upswing in Autism mirrored the use of thimerosal in infant MMR vaccinations for years

You've been shown to be absolutely 100% wrong, because thimerosal was never in the MMR vaccine. Keep denying, be my guest.

[earth mom]

160. Your attitude towards this is very closed minded

reminds me of certain people from another website. I guess childrens health issues are unimportant to you. You'd think differently if it was YOUR child, no doubt about that. :eyes:

We can argue this all day since I DID post a couple of links that stated that thimerosal WAS in the MMR vaccine-which you choose not to acknowledge. Do your own search, I'm through. But I will state once again that saying there never was thimerosal in the MMR is nothing more than a ploy by pharmaceutical companies. They will do ANYTHING to win. Because FYI-there are court cases pending on this issue right now. I guess the lawyers are going to waste their time and energy on pro bono class action suits otherwise?! We're talking MILLIONS of dollars...of course the pharma giants don't want to lose now do they?! :eyes:

[im10ashus]

146. Just to play devils advocate here.

Do you have any links I can look at citing the use of thimerosal in MMR? I have done an extensive search and I am only finding that it was never used as in the MMR vaccine. Just would like to see some hard information.

Edited to add this link: http://www.immunizationinfo.org/thimerosal_mercury_detail.cfv?id=42

[earth mom]

161. Lots of recent bogus info-look several pages or years back-it's there.

[bloom]

122. The problem I see

with the MMR is that infants were expected to be able to recover from it as well as several other vaccines all at once. I think vaccines are a positive thing as long as they are given sensibly.

Plus there are people with reduced immune systems (low glutathione)- you might be one if you have mild autism - who are more susceptible to getting autism because of an inability to recover from multiple vaccines (as well as an increased susceptibility to mercury - thimerosal is still in most of the flu vaccines).

There are more and more toxins in the environment - esp. mercury - and I certainly don't discount people's "anecdotal" observations of their own children and other children they know.

Also - I have seen videos of children at 6 months who - by someone who knows what they are looking for - such as a reduced response to people - that can be diagnosed at that age.

There are also the government maneuverings to keep pharmaceuticals from liability (following 9/11) and a cover-up of the evidence that they had.

There is plenty of evidence to make a parent cautious about mercury in general and vaccines in particular. Though I don't advocate that people avoid them entirely - it would be nice if our gov't entities - like the FDA, CDC, and EPA could be more trustworthy. You may wish to notice what the European countries are doing about this. They pay more attention to things.

[earth mom]

125. Bloom-Thank you for your excellent post. :)

[trotsky]

130. Bloom, I pointed you to a study that showed

there is no problem with the body receiving multiple vaccines "all at once." Do you deny the results of that study? Do you have links to studies that back up your claims?

[bloom]

142. Would that be this study:

Infant Immune System Is Stronger Than
Many Parents Think 

“Current research shows that young infants are fully capable of generating protective immune responses to multiple vaccines given simultaneously. “Our analysis shows that infants have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10,000 vaccines at once. Currently, the most vaccines that children receive at one time is five,” says Dr. Offit. “Using this estimate, we could predict that even if all 11 of the routinely recommended vaccinations were given to infants at one time, only about .01 percent of the immune system would be used.” ”

--------

And yes I do deny that that study and any study that does not take into account low glutathione levels supports your/their claims.

For anyone to give 10,000 vaccines at once would be child abuse, so would 100, or 50 and eventually people might see 10 as abuse.

Laughingstock of the West

Researchers across Europe are generally appalled at the massive amounts of vaccines given to American children under two years old. Although Europeans are not as obsessed with vaccines as we are, they do vaccinate.

But most of Europe gives very few vaccinations to children under two years old, primarily because of the unformed gut, immune system, and blood-brain barrier.

This intellectual isolation of ours regarding vaccines is a testimony to the suffocating "brain control" exerted on us by the popular press and all media. Like sheep to the slaughter, we don't know enough to be appalled by our own ignorance.

http://www.inutritionals.com/healthyliving/autismmercury.shtml

I see this as similar to smoking. Denied in the media for years - still legal - people should make up their own minds based on the evidence that they believe is the most accurate.

Also from that link:

FDA: Protector of Whom?

Noting that this is the only branch of government (FDA) that allows incomplete financials, in September 2000, Burton called the advisory board's sweetheart arrangements with the vaccine manufacturers a "violation of the public trust."

This includes 70 percent of advisory board members owning stock in vaccines, owning patents on vaccines, and accepting salaries and benefits as employees of the drug companies.

For more information on "Mercury, Health, Pollution and Autism" see:

http://www.independent-media.tv/gtheme.cfm?ftheme_id=94

[trotsky]

144. Considering that in a typical day,

many of us - infants included - can be exposed to 10,000 pathogens, I think your sources worried about overloading the immune system are little more than fearmongering.

"...people should make up their own minds based on the evidence that they believe is the most accurate."

A lot of people think the photos of the Pentagon accurately show a missile, not a plane, hitting the building. The Internet is a wild, unregulated place where the rantings of lunatics can look just as professional and authoritative as people who have dedicated their lives studying something.

[bloom]

147. I think there is a big difference

between being exposed to a pathogen and being injected with one.


And the gov't/FBI has photos that would show whether it was a plane or a missile and they are not releasing them.

There is a lot of info out there - Sometimes it's the "professional lunatics" who seem more authoritative than they really are.

This was interesting tidbit on Democracy Now AND on the internet today - related to the FDA:

"...At the time, his appointment to the FDA advisory committee alarmed many women”s groups because of his staunch opposition to abortion, emergency contraception and pre-martial sex. In his writings Dr. Hager has attacked the birth control pill for promoting promiscuity and advised bible readings to relieve premenstrual syndrome.

In December of 2003, Dr. Hager was one a small group of people on an FDA committee who voted against the over the counter sale of the morning after pill known- the emergency contraceptive pill known as Plan B. The vote was 23 to 4 in favor of permitting the pill to be sold without a prescription. One physician on the panel called Plan B, "the safest product that we have seen brought before us." But the FDA took the unusual step of disregarding the committee's recommendation and did not approve Plan B for over the counter sales.

In a recent article on the cover of Nation magazine, reporter Ayelish McGarvey investigates Dr. Hager's role in persuading the FDA to reject Plan B. She also reveals allegations by Dr. Hager's former wife of rape and sexual abuse by Hager that went on for years...."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/26/1427236

[trotsky]

148. Don't derail this by linking the FDA with a right-wing wacko

appointed by Bush. That's very dishonest.

[bloom]

151. Well you were derailing it by bringing in 9/11

it sounded like the discussion moved to internet information and who is authoritative - and he is in the FDA after all - which is part of the discussion.

The FDA is an example of government mis(non)-regulation when it comes to health.

The FDA is a part of the game:

Trade-Off: Vaccine Maker Profits - Autism
Material by:
Evelyn Pringle

In 1997, Congress passed the FDA Modernization Act, which required the FDA to review all drugs that contained mercury and determine their adverse effects on humans. For many years, Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, was added to childhood vaccines in multi-dose bottles, basically to increase profits for vaccine makers.

Its important to know that Thimerosal is not a necessary component for vaccines. If they are packaged in single dose vials, the preservative is not needed. There is mounting evidence, that shows our government knew about the dangers of adding Thimerosal to vaccines. Research by WFAA-TV revealed that the FDA began asking questions about the dangers as far back as 1972. By 1992, the preservative had been removed from dog vaccines and contact lens solutions because of its risks. And yet the government refused to order its removal from childhood vaccines for 10 more years.

In 2000, the FDA determined that infants were receiving much more mercury than was considered safe under EPA guidelines. A twelve-to-fourteen month old child, receiving the mandated vaccines under the Immunization Schedule, often received four to six shots during one doctor visit. Consequently over time, the child would be injected with as much as 40 times the amount of mercury considered safe.

<snip>
One 1999 internal FDA memo stated that the FDA had an "interim plan ... already in place for many years" to get rid of Thimerosal. Wording in the same memo revealed the FDA's fear that it will be accused of being "asleep at the switch for decades, by allowing a dangerous compound to remain in childhood vaccines." <more>

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10469&fcategory_desc=Mercury,%20Health,%20Pollution%20and%20Autism

And you are also derailing this by saying my post was dishonest.

[trotsky]

154. In a way, you supported the point I was making.

By cherry-picking what sources you want to believe, you can come up with a justification for just about anything. After all, you are simultaneously bashing the FDA yet noting that it also announced "that infants were receiving much more mercury than was considered safe under EPA guidelines." Well, if they're so desperately trying to avoid blame for any vaccine issues, that would be pretty dumb of them to call attention to that, wouldn't it?

[bloom]

159. If you'll notice - it was Congress

in 1997 that required the FDA to do something - probably under pressure from constituents, etc. The point of that was an internal memo where they were found to have admitted not doing anything for decades.

Actually - I think that supported my point pretty well.

You cherry pick what sources YOU want to believe. They are just different from mine.

[earth mom]

70. I agree with you-is this FR or See U instead of DU?!

Sorry, but I don't think there is anything wrong with Tom Cruise being against prescription drugs. Drugs are over prescribed by just about every doc in this country. Doctors, who, mind you, don't know everything. There are many holistic approaches to illnesses that the medical profession totally ignores because they have to justify their ridiculously priced treatments and as well as the need to keep the drug companies happy. If more people looked into these type of health remedies, this country would probably be a happier less f-cked up place!

Drugs are NOT the cure for ALL illnesses.

[im10ashus]

79. There's a lot about pharmas we aren't told.

So I agree we over-medicate in this country. I don't think it's necessarily freeper-like of us to discuss this. And I resent the comparison, quite frankly.

[TNOE]

95. The close-mindedness is reminiscent

of the freeps - not the discussion. Apparently, I have to eat my own words here - because they were actually having a semi-intelligent discussion on this same issue - which is indeed shocking.

[earth mom]

103. Exactly-it's the closed-mindedness here on DU that reminds both you and I

of the freepers. And I'll add that the full on attack on Tom Cruise was pretty intense considering he's only try to open some minds. It's not like he's shoving it down everyones throats-unlike the pharmaceutical industry-seen any of their commercials lately? And how about their non stop lobbying and campaign contributions to those who support them in DC? :puke:

And TNOE-Thanks for your posts. :)

[im10ashus]

108. I'm keeping an open mind here.

But I get your meaning. ;-)

[Bridget Burke]

87. Then he should tell of his own experiences....

He shouldn't tell other people what to do.

Natural remedies are great but drugs have their uses.

[elehhhhna]

136. ASK HIM ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY'S Marriage Counseling Program.

Mwahaahaha. Case closed.


He's said the Hubheads cured his dyslexia. Prove it, Tommy. If there's a "cure", what's the secret? I call B.S.


BTW, IMO, he's lousy actor who hit his peak, looks wise, in his low-20's, and has a creepy body -- a very square, weird looking torso in "Open Your Eyes". Just saying. And ever since I saw his goofy looking cousin--grade B actor , last name Mapother (Tom's real name), I can't stand to look at either of them.

One concession: he was quite good in "Magnolia", but that was an aberration.

[Dorian Gray]

116. It's not that vitamins are bad, TNOE..

It's just that Tom Cruise systematically put down Brooke Shields and anyone else who has serious brain chemistry induced depression and expects them to get over it by using only vitamins.

And, whether you want to admit it or not, he is constantly PUSHING his Scientology induced view regarding this subject (also regarding learning disabilities and medications AND Scientology sponsored drug rehab)into the mainstream in his many interviews that he gives to the press. This is not the first time he has said something like this.

I, personally, believe that there is room to debate our society's dependency on pharmaceuticals. However, to dismiss, out of hand, that some people might actually need those drugs is unfair and continues to add to the impression that a person is lesser if they need to be medicated for depression or depressive related mental illnesses.

[Blue Belle]

60. Tom Cruise/ Katie Holmes poll...

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=210x6682

If anyone cares. :-)

[Johonny]

61. What?

I can't even understand what he's trying to say.

"There is a hormonal thing that is going on, scientifically, you can prove that. But when you talk about emotional, chemical imbalances in people, there is no science behind that. You can use vitamins to help a woman through those things."


Hormones are a chemical. And vitamins. Well those are chemicals too. So to treat a chemical problem he wants you to use chemicals. But remember chemical imbalance isn't the problem? Wa wa wa what?

[Spider Jerusalem]

64. No, he's a brainwashed cult member.

Scientology's attitude towards psychiatry is utterly mad; especially coming from an organisation that tells its members that all of their physical ills are caused by alien spiritual entities called "thetans" that are trapped inside their body. And their use of vitamins is unsafe, too; I've read that Scientology "detox" centres give toxic megadoses of vitamins (can't remember which one, but it causes damage in high doses) to their "clients".

[VOX]

71. "Dr. Tom" knows jack shit about neurochemistry.

His statement "But when you talk about emotional, chemical imbalances in people, there is no science behind that" is so incredibly ignorant!

There is in fact a **ton** of proven science known about neurotransmitters and how their re-uptake can affect mood states. This is the crux of the science behind the SSRI class of pharmaceuticals, which has been very effective in treating anxiety and depressive disorders. These drugs are not perfect, and they are not for everyone, but they have given hope to millions.

Stick to acting, Tom. :grr:

[Cha]

72. I'm not a dr. either but

but I say ..stay away from prescription drugs if at all possible..they'll mess you up..FUBAR!

[Pithlet]

73. Yeah, well

staying away from prescription drugs that are medically necessary can kill. Insulin, blood pressure medication, and yes, even anti-depressants, for examples. People spouting off unqualified medical advice telling people to ignore their doctors advice and prescriptions the way Tom Cruse did can also mess a person up.

[Cha]

88. We disagree.

I work in a co-op and hear daily..experiences of said FUBAR!

And it happened to my own sister on the anti-depressants.

[Pithlet]

92. I'm not disputing those things happen.

My problem is when people disseminate medical advice when they aren't qualified. It is fine to post your stories about your experiences, and your opinions about certain medications. But if you actively tell someone to stop taking a medication that their doctor prescribed, then you are risking harm to that person. And anyone who takes a non-qualified individual's advice over their own doctor is a fool. There is a HUGE difference between a lay person's anecdotal evidence, and true medical study.

[Cha]

102. I see your point..

but I'm not a believer in those "true medical studies" that come up with the drugs they push with those horrific side effects.

And they've got all those prescriptions all over tv with little butterflies promoting how sweetly they will sleep if only they take "lunestra".

[Pithlet]

104. Oh, I agree with you there

I think those advertisements should be illegal, the way they once were. I definitely don't think pharmaceutical companies are innocent, benevolent entities.

[kiki]

76. Did you know...

...his real name is the slightly less sexy "Thomas Cruise Mapother IV"?

See this site for amusing anagrams: http://www.anagramgenius.com/archive/thomas27.html

[northzax]

78. post a thread about ritalin

and watch all the doctors on DU Comment.

[NNN0LHI]

90. He is not a doctor but he...

...did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Don

[mitchum]

91. He's a cocky, arrogant, hot dog of a doctor...

Wait a minute...that will an upcoming role in the career of the oh-so versatile Cruise.

[Ilsa]

93. Tom, two words: Andrea Yates.

'Nuff said.

[Desertrose]

99. nah, just an arrogant judgemental jackass

I mean I hate to see anyone do prescriptions drugs but sometimes its the only or best available option.

To make a blanket statement that "he" could cure her with vitamins...well, that may be true that vites would have helped her, but how does he know she didn't try them??

Again...someone shooting off their mouth without all the facts....

His arrogance seesm to know no bounds.....(like I care what he thinks, but too many people probably do......)

[nonconformist]

111. This from a guy that believes in the alien galatic leader Xenu

:eyes:

[Dorian Gray]

112. No,

he's a fool. Sorry. He doesn't have the right to criticize her for her treatment of her VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM with post-partum depression! What a tool!

[johnaries]

115. Absolutely! Doc Hollywood!

n/t

[im10ashus]

119. Maybe he feels compelled to tell her what to do...

...since they were in Endless Love together. Just saying.

;-)

[PowerToThePeople]

121. Doctor, race car driver, navy pilot. VERY talented.. n/t

[gauguin57]

124. Effing Scientologists. Murderers. Thieves. Con Men.

Be sure to read this old Time Magazine package -- and note how the cult harasses and harms anyone who investigates them.

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/time.htm

[Zookeeper]

127. Hey, Tom! If you really want to help women with postpartum...

depression, why don't you babysit and let them get some sleep?

[Mizmoon]

131. a stopped clock is right twice per day - the man is correct

he may be just a pretty boy, and he may follow a cult, but he's totally correct in this instance.

People laughed when activists asserted that these drugs were dangerous and caused suicides instead of preventing them. Then it was proved to be true in teens to the point where the drugs are getting a black box warning from the FDA. I notice no one came back and said, "Hey, you were right, you activists! Good call" We still get nothing but abuse. So be it.

edit for grammar

[blondeatlast]

132. No one should be offering medical advice except for people that

the patient trusts. Family members, doctors directly involved with their care, friends.

That's it.

Whatever Ms. Shields' motives were to write the book, she is free to do so and was able to find a publisher.

Mr. Cruise should STFU. She has enough problems on her hands (I'm hardly a fan of hers, in fact, she kind of irritates me)

[sectorzero]

133. Why is Tom Cruise called 'gay' ?

As an atheist I disagree with his Scientology beliefs, but Cruise seems like a pretty decent guy for a Hollywood star - not crazier than most.

I think some women don't like him because of the Kidman situation, so now they call him 'gay'. That's insulting to gay people and to Cruise, who IMO is straight, just more sensitive (like most actors/artists). So the guy likes lots of pretty, tall women - big deal. He's famous and has them 'lining up' - more power to him.

[LostinVA]

134. There have been underground stories of him being gay

For a very, very long time. The reason why people jump on him about it is why we jump on closeted gay Republicans like Gannon: they yell from the mountaintops how unnatural and evil homosexuality is. Scientology is very anti-gay. Guess if you're a queer, Xenu must have put an alien soul in your that's a little light in his zero-gravity suit...

[im10ashus]

135. Even if those rumors are true...

...this gay man couldn't care less. He's speaking out on a subject of which he has no business speaking on. Would he deny medicine to a heart patient as well?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

137. At least Brooke went to Princeton. Cruise needs to SHUT UP.

I bought her book and she suffered terribly. She not only had trouble getting pregnant, but had a miscarriage, traumatic labor resulting in a C-section and then a difficult recovery with subsequent postpartum depression.

I was amazed at her openness and honesty about her dilemma and respect her for sharing her experience as a cautionary tale for other women who may also have postpartum depression.

[im10ashus]

138. That's my point exactly.

How the hell would he know what alternatives she may have tried. The woman was suicidal for crying out loud. She could have remained silent but she did a big thing by coming forward with her story. Brava Brooke!

[MN ChimpH8R]

149. Was Bismarck a herring?

n/t

:shrug:

[im10ashus]

150. Not sure what you mean.

Can you enlighten me?

[MN ChimpH8R]

156. Just a non-sequitur, sorta like the title of the thread n/t

[im10ashus]

157. Ahhh.

Thanks for the clarification. And welcome to DU!

[ghostsofgiants]

152. Just when did Tom snap anyway?

[ultraist]

155. Cruise joined the Scientology cult in 1986

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/entertainment/6281824.htm
Tom Cruise: Scientology Helped Me
Associated Press

NEW YORK - Tom Cruise said he learned to overcome his learning disability through Scientology.

"When I was about 7, I had been labeled dyslexic," he told People magazine for its July 21 issue. "I'd try to concentrate on what I was reading, then I'd get to the end of the page and have very little memory of anything I'd read. I would go blank, feel anxious, nervous, bored, frustrated, dumb."

After "Top Gun" came out in 1986, Cruise became a Scientologist and discovered the "Study Technology" the religion's founder, L. Ron Hubbard, developed in the 1960s.

"I realized I could absolutely learn anything that I wanted to learn," Cruise said.Now the 41-year-old actor is a founding board member of the Hollywood Education and Literacy Project, a nonprofit group that uses Hubbard's teaching techniques in a secular setting.

[Nikki Stone 1]

153. "Open minded" is not an excuse for ignorance

For example, saying I'm being open-minded by seriously entertaining the notion that the earth is flat (because I want to be tolerant, a nice person, whatever) is just ludicrous. When we have actual fact, there is no room for debate. (And yes, we have actual fact on this. )

When it comes to medicine, there are a number of approaches to healing, but we only know what works or doesn't work by repeated experimentation. We cannot go off on a limb--without any evidence--guided by "dogma", "a gut feeling", "we just know it was the vaccines" or whatever.

Regarding Tom Cruise's comments:

From what I have read, some vitamins can be helful and at worst they can be harmless, unless you have certain cancers and are taking beta-carotene, in which case the beta-carotene will actually promote the growth of the cancer. A Harvard study actually had to stop in mid experiment for ethical reasons when studying betacarotene in cancer patients.

In regard to post-partum depression--or any serious depression for that matter--anti-depressants can be extraordinarily helpful. If Cruise wishes to back up his claims, he should fund a double-blind study in which one group is given Paxil (or other anti-depressant) and the second is given vitamins. The results should then be measured.

That's science. That's the way we find fact, so we don't end up believing nonsense.

[im10ashus]

158. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!

"he should fund a double-blind study in which one group is given Paxil (or other anti-depressant) and the second is given vitamins. The results should then be measured."

Let's have him put his money where his mouth is.