A U.S. Soldier came into my dad's store today.

[Tony_FLADEM]

My dad asked him how do you feel about the war in Iraq. The soldier said - In Iraq we all look at each other and ask - what the fuck are we doing here? He said it's very bad in Iraq

[Deja Q]

1. Why the fuck did we go there at all?

We are in no economic position to do so; and how oil has managed to stay so low in price despite the number of "insurgents" blowing up the wells, I don't know...

[FloridaPat]

4. There are some that say we were in no economic condition not to invade.

Iraq had switched to selling in euros after 9-11. The rest of the OPEC were considering it and liked the idea. The day oil gets sold in euros - or anything besides dollars - is the day the US economy tanks. These repubs have screwed us over royally with the deficit and shipping factories out of the country. Iran is talking about having an Islamic monetary unit for use by Muslim countries to sell oil. So much death for so much stupidity.

[hootinholler]

18. Not only were they trading with Euros,

There were oil contracts with Russian and French companies.

-Hoot

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. I've talked to several returning vets...with one exception,....

...they are totally fed up with this perpetual war.

[Up2Late]

43. Where did you hear (see/read?) Iraq had switched to selling in euros

after 9-11? I'm not accusing you of making this up, but I've always heard that they were still only think of making that move. So you have a link, because I'd like to see it if it's true.

[MADem]

2. It is so sad

Alot of the kids who have been in the worst of it signed up for the purest of motives. They loved their country and wanted to defend it; to protect their friends, their family, their land, their way of life. They bought the bullshit, and the only thing you can really pin on them is that they were naive and politically unaware.

Now they are seeing what greedy assholes, who don't care, who lie with a smile, can do to our national spirit and sense of purpose.

My heart aches for them.

[DemonFighterLives]

22. They were too young to believe that

the leaders of this country would rake them over the coals. The more they know about the slimy bastards in control, the madder they will get.

[oxbow]

3. If they really feel that way

I wish more of them would dpeak out about it. I know the army prides itself on loyalty, but Sometimes being a good soldier is at odds with being a good human being.

[koopie57]

5. My husband told me that

he had heard somewhere that (where can I find a link for that I wonder?) anyway, it was something to the effect that the soldiers are coming home and they are not happy. They are starting a group called something like "truthout" where they are telling their stories. I have no particulars on it as it was just a conversation over dinner, but if it is true, someone here will be aware of it I would suspect. I will try to find something about it as I'm curious about it.

Next time I'll try not to include such a detailed and specific post *giggle*.

P.S. Look at my beautiful gold star. I'm so proud of it and thankful to the special person who surprised me with it. Ain't it a beaut???

[NuttyFluffers]

6. Operation Truth?

they've been regulars at Air America Radio. good group, they are out for the soldiers and are trying to avoid the politics. so far, the only people willing to give them a consistent voice on the media is AAR.

[IrateCitizen]

30. I'd go for Iraq Veterans Against the War instead...

www.ivaw.net

[Greylyn58]

15. Truthout has been around since before the elections

You should really check out their site. It's incredible. Here's the URL:

http://www.truthout.org/

Most of the stories there will break your heart.

[Starfury]

19. Operation Truth

http://www.optruth.org/main.cfm

[IrateCitizen]

29. OpTruth's exec director, Paul Rieckhoff, is a backstabber...

OpTruth is a good organization for getting soldiers' voices out into the media, but they are NOT an antiwar group by any stretch of the imagination. Furthermore, their executive director, Paul Rieckhoff, made public statements against the 3/19 demo in Fayetteville, NC, saying that it was "protesting the troops". Never mind the fact that two of the most prominent groups in organizing that demo were military families and veterans. His comments were picked up and run with by RW media groups, like GOPUSA (the current incarnation of Talon News).

Rieckhoff most likely has political inclinations, and sees the treatment of John Kerry in the 2004 election as a lesson that he needs to distance himself from the antiwar movement. I find it quite telling that, when given the choice between furthering his own ambitions and furthering the greater goals of the movement, he chose the former.

If you're interested in another group that is not only committed to helping the returning vets, but ENDING THE WAR AND OCCUPATION, I would suggest Iraq Veterans Against the War (www.ivaw.net).

[LynnTheDem]

32. Operation Truth

http://www.optruth.org/main.cfm

Paul Reickhoff is anti-war.

Have you not read his anti-Iraq invasion articles?

[IrateCitizen]

38. Bullshit -- Paul Rieckhoff is NOT anti-war!!!

This is one of the biggest misconceptions out there! Paul Rieckhoff made public comments prior to the 3/19 protest in Fayetteville that the action was deplorable, that it was basically "protesting against the troops". Never mind the fact that the protest was organized primarily by military families and veterans' groups. His comments were splashed across every RW news source available.

In a recent debate in Boston's Faneuil Hall, Rieckhoff was up against Mike Hoffman of Iraq Veterans Against the War. Rieckhoff spent a good deal of time saying that we had to "stay to win" in Iraq, and trying to defend his previous comments surrounding the 3/19 protests -- for which he was raked over the coals by a Vietnam Veteran and member of VVAW.

There is one veterans organization that is against the war, and that organization is Iraq Veterans Against the War (www.ivaw.net). OpTruth is concerned with veterans' benefits and soldier equipment issues and the like. They have NEVER advocated openly against the war in Iraq, and they certainly haven't called for an end to the occupation.

I don't want to denigrate the work of that organization as a whole, because it is valuable. But they are NOT antiwar, and their exec director is a backstabber who has political ambitions, which drove him to distance himself from the antiwar movement.

[LynnTheDem]

39. Fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

:)

[IrateCitizen]

41. It's a FACT that Paul Rieckhoff and OpTruth are NOT antiwar

That's not an opinion, that's a fact. At no time, at least to my knowledge, has OpTruth openly advocated for ending the occupation and stopping the war.

My OPINION is that Paul Rieckhoff is a self-aggrandizing hypocrite who will stab others in the back if it will help him to achieve his personal political goals. The sad thing is that he heads up a good organization for its stated purpose, and that OpTruth's name is sullied within the antiwar movement for his selfish actions and comments.

[LynnTheDem]

44. As I said...

Have a nice day.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. I think

that a lot of them feel to be loyal to the Commander in Chief during a war time and that's why they don't speak out. At first I thought that too. I wonder if any of them know about the memo....

[EVDebs]

7. Bush ditched the Powell Doctrine and this is what DoD got

"Essentially, the Doctrine expresses that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target; the force, when used, should be overwhelming and disproportionate to the force used by the enemy; there must be strong support for the campaign by the general public; and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged.

Powell based this strategy for warfare in part on the views held by his former boss in the Reagan administration, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, and also on his own experience as a major in Vietnam. That protracted campaign, in Powell's view, was representative of a war in which public support was flimsy, the military objectives were not clear, overwhelming force was not used consistently, and an exit strategy was ill defined."

from
www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/teachers/lessonplans/iraq/powelldoctrine_short.html

Not a last resort, no clear risk to national security (DIA analysts WMD intell said none; the 'stovepiped' OSP reports said 'yes') no public support, no clear exit strategy, just like Gen Zinni said...

"Zinni says Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time - with the wrong strategy. And he was saying it before the U.S. invasion. In the months leading up to the war, while still Middle East envoy, Zinni carried the message to Congress: “This is, in my view, the worst time to take this on. And I don’t feel it needs to be done now.”"
Gen Zinni 'They've Screwed Up'
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

This is truly turning into Iraq-nam.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. So my question is

why did he go along with the wmd shit? You know he knew there was nothing there.

[EVDebs]

14. Which is why I want to see an impeachment

Paul Craig Roberts, a dyed-in-the-wool Repub, has written a recent column asking for as much. When Repubs begin asking for this and some in the intell/military-industrial-complex too, then you know things are heading south for the neocons and *.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/cgi-bin/roberts.cgi

Also, see
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1799248&mesg_id=1799248

Things are happening that don't make the news. Patience is necessary.

[sandnsea]

8. A US soldier came to my house yesterday

I had to stop him from telling all his war stories. They don't all feel like that soldier in your dad's store. It's a mistake for us to pretend that they do.

[tabasco]

23. Soldiers bragging about their war exploits ...

are generally the ones who never saw any action.

You will get the best war stories from laundry & bath specialists who never left Kuwait.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Something I thought was strange

is on the Iraq "election day" they seemed to have everything under control pretty well with the boarders. Why can't they have it that way all the time? Why can't they get them power and proper drinking water? I wish we could leave there so bad. :cry: It's not good for anybody to be there.

[EVDebs]

11. The next 'election day' is in October. Hopefully the Iraqis will ask US

to leave and that will be the way out of this mess.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Wouldn't hold my breath

I saw this doc on http://www.informationclearinghouse.info and it was from the BBC. General Clark was featured in it talking a lot of the time and they also interviewed a guy who was a leader in the new Iraqi army who was the leader under Saddam's old army and he said it'll take four-five years to really train them and this was made in January of this year. I can't remember the name of it though but it was on that site. Plus they're building military bases there as well.

[europegirl4jfk]

24. Reminds me the Vietnamisation...

... in the early 70th, after the US realized that they can't win in Vietnam. Remember it didn't work there and IMO it won't work in Iraq. These trained Iraqi forces are corrupt and a lot of them sympathize with the insurgents.

[Alpharetta]

17. the election days had very reduced activity

Why can't they have it that way all the time?
the military had everything on a halt. no commerce at all. hardly anyone was allowed to drive. many more roads were closed. curfews. checkpoints. they wanted to reduce the chances of attacks on polling places.

they can't do that all the time.

[LynnTheDem]

34. Ummm...HELLO! That "election day" saw the HIGHEST LEVEL of attacks

since we invaded 2 years ago!

That's a fact!

[bejammin075]

20. the whole country was on extreme lockdown

the US military can only maintain that kind of control and discipline for a very short while - 1 day. I'm not sure what all the measures were, but what they did on election day was extreme control. the country cannot live like that all the time. The insurgents just decided to let the US have their one day, and then back to business as usuall.

[LynnTheDem]

36. And yet there were the HIGHEST NUMBER OF ATTACKS that day

than any day since we invaded.


SHEEESH!

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Because George Bush doesn't want them to have those things

All he wants is death and destruction. He has no plan to make life better for anyone anywhere, no less in Iraq.

The more dead the better, that is the only way he can achieve orgasm.

This is about genocide, not about rebuilding.

[Hissyspit]

28. and anyway there was more violence on Election Day than was reported

widely in the MSM. Do an archives search for LynntheDem's postings. She has data. Or check: http://icasualties.org/oif/

[LynnTheDem]

37. THANK YOU HISSY!!! Sheesh and we wonder how the right is so oblivious

of the FACTS!

FACT IS, election day in Iraq had the HIGHEST NUMBER OF INSURGENT ATTACKS of any day since we invaded 2 years ago.

FACT!

In all, there were more attacks than on any other day in Iraq since the US
... this election with the highest level of attacks we have ever seen. ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52500-2005Jan31.html

with 260 attacks taking place on election day, the largest number since ...

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0107644.html

The 260 attacks recorded on election day in fact marked the highest intensity of insurgent violence yet...

http://meionline.com/newsanalysis/324.shtml


"The number of insurgent attacks on Sunday, 260, was the highest ever recorded

http://199.249.170.220/eandp/departments/newsroom/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000780113

On Election Day the American military in Iraq had shut the place down. ...
dead and its 260 insurgent attacks were the highest number of any single day ...

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2005/04/iraq_danner.html

[LynnTheDem]

33. "Election day" and "under control"??? That day saw the HIGHEST number

of attacks since we invaded!

... In all, there were more attacks than on any other day in Iraq since the US... this election with the highest level of attacks we have ever seen. ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52500-2005Jan31.html

[tabasco]

42. The "elections" were a propaganda ploy and the media whores...

played along. Happy Iraqis everywhere. No violence. Purple fingers to show how happy everybody was.

I don't watch any US media coverage of Iraq anymore. It is all fluff and outright deception. Corporations are making billions off this war and they want you to think everything is swell.

[laura888]

16. I thought this post did a pretty good job explaining why we're there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3705359

[Hissyspit]

25. It sounds like my student who went to Iraq: "I misjudged how stressful...

things are over here."

He's a civilian, not soldier, who went over there a month ago.

[Hissyspit]

27. It also reminds me of ME: When I said in 2002, "What the fuck are we..."

"...talking about Iraq for??" I tried to discuss it rationally with my students, many who were military. Most just looked at me like they didn't get it.

[lonestarnot]

31. Woke up did he?

[redqueen]

35. That troop doesn't support the troops!

He's responsible for the insurgency!

He's giving aid and comfort to the enemy!

:sarcasm:

:crazy:

We need a looney-tune, ranting, red-faced, dumbass 'winger icon.

[catmandu57]

40. I knew we were going in 2000

I talked myself hoarse trying to warn people off the chimp*, but all I got back was what a regular guy old gw was. That, and everyone was buzzing about the three hundred or six hundred bucks that they were going to get, after all it was their money.
I knew for certain that we would be at war 20 Dec 2000, all I could do then is try to find a way to keep my personal pain to a minimum.

Why? The only re3ason I've ever found was that this stupid motherfucker wanted to prove he had a bigger one than poppy.
Well, okay, you've got a bigger one, now, lets get the son of a bitch to the hague, along with everyone employed by these bastards.