NO PROOF SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS!

[Disturbed]

US Army War College: NO PROOF SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS!
From http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/11-18-98.html
Memo to Jess Helms from InfoTimes.
Note excerpt from US Army War College report that no evidence exists to support US claims that Iraq used gas on the Kurds.
I continue to make inquiry into the situation in Iraq, as it is likely to brew up into another crisis one of these days when the US Army War College has no choice but to conclude that Iraq is not hiding any weapons of mass destruction -- or if they are, they are so well hidden that nobody is going to find them.

http://100777.com/node/648

*Even the Pres. of the U.S. states this to be true when there is no proven evidence that it is.

[EFerrari]

1. I thought the Army War College already published a report

highly critical of the war AND of the likelihood of Iraq having WMD.

Like, a year ago? And, similarly, it seems Saddam didn't gas the Kurds because he didn't possess the gas that killed them. But, Iran did.

here's a link: http://www.investigatemagazine.com/_IDdisc2/00000462.htm
I don't know this magazine but it's the same report I read a long time ago at warblogging.

'Nother one: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-08.htm


This is a position paper from the Army War College, 1/2004. Not what I'm looking for, but they're blasting the Chimp here:

http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000646.php

[ngGale]

35. I've also read Iran gassed the Kurds and...

with American helicopters.

[barbaraann]

2. Isn't Rumsfeld eliminating the Army War College?

n/t

[madrchsod]

3. yes he wants to

but it will never be done.

[LuPeRcALiO]

4. holy cow

You mean he's not an evil dictator worth spending $500 billion annually to remove?

That was our last excuse!!

[Disturbed]

5. It's possible that at least 95% of Amerikans...

believe that Saddam gassed the Kurds, even many on DU.

[EFerrari]

6. And Kurdish leaders use it, like a crow bar, for political purposes.

Which doesn't get us to truth, or raise the poor death people caught between Iraq and Iran.

[LuPeRcALiO]

7. If I had a nickle for every time somebody say that on NPR

or the NY Times and everywhere else I could buy a star for everybody here!

[EFerrari]

8. Right. And nobody's talking about us using napalm or depleted

uranium.

It's just twisted.

[Disturbed]

9. The standard line is "He gassed his own people."

1st there is no proof that he gassed any people. 2nd are the Kurds his own people?

I posted this on a site that has Freepers and I got flamed and yet...not one iota of proof.

[EFerrari]

10. Have you tried posting that he wasn't behind 9/11 too?

:)

[The Doctor.]

11. Which site?

(I love stumping people.)

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I've noticed

they do that often. Make high claims of someone and then don't have proof and it turns out that it never happened.

[applegrove]

13. We are dancing backwards from known history. Bush didn't create

Saddam Hussein. His father and neocons were hoodwinked by the guy into helping him set up shop and then practice with weapons.

Your dream that Saddam is an innocent is not founded in reality. Do your own research (using reputable websites - better yet - go to Iraq websites). Or wait for the trial.

[EFerrari]

16. Nope. The CIA installed the Ba'athists and then, Saddam.

They called it "their favorite coup."

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

http://www.unknownnews.net/saddam.html

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2849.htm

How innocent could he be, he was doing business with the CIA. Careful before you label new information as "dream". :)

[applegrove]

19. I'm not denying that. They installed many, many cabals. Trust me.

This will all come out during the trial. Carter himself was berating the Shaw of Iran (someone else installed)to improve his own human rights and democratic society before he was deposed. Yes - these neocons have some stuff to answer for. So does Saddam Hussein. He is a monster. For sure the USA thought they had an allie. And Saddam started out creating a balanced secular society where people and jobs and stuff. And then, like the monsters always do, he started trying to get more control by using more and more fear..and to do that he committed atrocities. He did that. So one wrong by the USA does not give the monster a pass. He is to blame for all the actions he took while he was in power. He had control of his police & military. And the patterns they acted out are Saddam's responsibility. As is his practice of putting other of like mind..into positions where they could continue to terrorize their own people.

[EFerrari]

20. Oh, sure. He was a monster. And a monster we played, are still

playing, for all he's worth.

We put him there and supported him for most of his tenure. We should round up the uber monsters and put them on trial too. Except, they seem to be running our government.

And I don't know about you, but I'm not holding my breathe for his trial. He knows too much.

[applegrove]

21. I don't see how they would get away with 'silencing' him. Anything

the neocons did they can blame on Roosevelt for not fighting Stalin who then made the soviets the monsters they were. That will be their out. Didn't work when they tried it on May 9th... but they will come up with another way to put us back into the 'cold war' when Saddam goes on trial.

Really, Saddam did so many things..that it will speak for itself. As will the witnesses and/or the Iraqi families of the victims. Neocon's stupid policies of the time will pale in comparison.

The problem with the neocons is that they are true Utopians and really believe they can force the world to be a better place in the image they have chosen for it. Utopians like Lenin or Che..likely have a leg or two to stand on because they intended to make the world a better place. Saddam cannot hide what his intentions were. It was fear, fear, fear, etc. Dead toddlers, who lay in a village having had their lungs explode, do not lie. And they cannot be explained away with the cold war.

It is like apples and oranges.

[EFerrari]

26. I see your point be don't see much difference between

Saddam and the neos. First of all, he is their creature. His bullying is simply more clumsy than theirs has been. Second. I doubt they are Utopians. Their so called "vision" is smokescreen for thier corporatism. Third, we have little idea what Saddam actually did, and given all the frauds that have been exposed, it's doubtfull we will any time soon.

Lastly, of course they can silence him. He's a fly. As soon as he stops being more useful than he is a liability, he will be disposed of. At his age, a heart attack or a stoke from the stresses of imprisonment or of being on trial wouldn't be very surprising to anyone.

[fujiyama]

39. I think

the OP's premise is flawed (we know he used poison gasses because they were either supplied by us or the Russians), but your view of the neocons seems somewhat naive.

While I agree they portray a utopian view of society, in reality, it is a very dystopic view. I'm not going to downplay Saddam's atrocities, but while the neocons, as of this point, may not have the same body count as Saddam (though that's arguable, especially if the Iran/Iraq war is not taken into account), the US is on the path to having so.

We are already guilty of similar crimes as Saddam, including torture. We have provoked and invaded another nation, just as Saddam did.

It seems likely that the crimes of the Reagan and previous administrations will be exposed in the trials as well as Saddam's.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. dupe, delete

[FreedomAngel82]

28. I wouldn't either

They're not going to trial him until Bush is gone and another democrat is president. Something else to note is over the past twenty or so years the US has disarmed around thirty-two dictators and this is the first time there has ever been massive violence. Why now? Oil.

[EFerrari]

29. Exactly. I remember when people shook their heads before

the invasion over my "no blood for oil" signs and stickers.

I have a bobblehead doll in my back seat that does the same thing. :)

[DemonFighterLives]

24. Sounds like your buying most of what "they're" selling

Saddam was sure not perfect, but our great leaders are accomplices and enablers.

[slaveplanet]

14. The Mass graves are bogus

as well....most turned out to be dead Iranians, or Iraqi troops the US killed in the first gulf action. Only a smattering of graves don't fall into those two catagories.


of course this did'nt really come out until after the invasion...when the myth was no longer neccesary.

PM admits graves claim 'untrue'

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday July 18, 2004
The Observer

Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.

The claims by Blair in November and December of last year, were given widespread credence, quoted by MPs and widely published, including in the introduction to a US government pamphlet on Iraq's mass graves.

In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID, the US government aid distribution agency, Blair is quoted from 20 November last year: 'We've already discovered, just so far, the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves.'

On 14 December Blair repeated the claim in a statement issued by Downing Street in response to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and posted on the Labour party website that: 'The remains of 400,000 human beings already found in mass graves.' -snip

http://tinyurl.com/6hfll

[LunaC]

15. The FOREIGN press reported this

even though the snarky media in the U.S. continues to perpetuate the myth.

The repeated American propaganda weapon to rationalise the deaths of more than one million innocent Iraqis since 1991 through economic sanctions is that Saddam Hussein used poison gas against Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war and against Iraq’s own Kurdish citizens. The accusation is now being invoked to launch a full-scale American assault on Iraq.

This claim of Iraq gassing its own citizens at Halabjah is suspect. First, both Iran and Iraq used chemical weapons against each other during their war. Second, at the termination of the Iran-Iraq war, professors Stephen Pelletiere and Leif Rosenberger, and Lt Colonel Douglas Johnson of the US Army War College (USAWC) undertook a study of the use of chemical weapons by Iran and Iraq in order to better understand battlefield chemical warfare. They concluded that it was Iran and not Iraq that killed the Kurds.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=22569589

[slaveplanet]

17. Stephen Pelletiere

I heard an interview with this guy in February. He said the Bush administration pursued exactly the opposite of what they knew to be true.

When asked about the possibily of future terror attacks , he said Bush would have to MANUFACURE the attack, he said this is the most lying, conniving administration. the darned thing he'd ever seen.

All this from the leading reasearcher and authority on IRAQ, Reagan's Go to guy , and a republican.

[LunaC]

18. The first one was manufactured, all the rest would be too

If you haven't already done so, check out the link in my sig line for details on the full extent of the lies, conniving and corruption. When you see it all laid out in chronological order it will simultaneously depress, anger and scare the crap out of you.

[Disturbed]

22. I am not Saddam's defense Attorney.

I am fairly certain that Saddam was a brutal tyrant. It is also plain to me that Saddam was a U.S. ally until he started getting too high on his power and the U.S. Govt. decided to reign him in but not destroy the Iraq Govt. structure in Gulf War1. Saddam was duped into attacking Kuwait by Poppy Bush. Read the history. The goal was to contain Saddam. When Shi'ites were encouraged to revolt against him the U.S. provide no help at all and the Shi'ites were put down harshly. In order to gain Amerikan and world support to topple Saddam, he had to be demonized. Remember the Hitler comparisons by Bush 1?

Finding Saddam guilty of anything would not be a slam dunk if a fair trial were to take place.

[LiberallyInclined]

23. I doubt that he'll make it to trial.

the BFEE can't afford to have Saddam opening his mouth and presenting evidence in open court.

[Disturbed]

25. It;s too bad that we have a coward for Pres.

Saddam challenged w to a duel but chickenshit sock puppet Pres. didn't respond. We could have avoided all the death and maiming in Iraq if that duel had taken place.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Exactly

My question is why all the violence for this? In an earlier post I said how over the past twenty-something years the US government has brought down thirty-two dictators. So why all the violence with Saddam? Why all the money spent? So they could "lose" it?

[LunaC]

37. Switching to Euros for oil

was Saddam's "fuck you" to the U.S. for all the double-crosses. Iraq2 was his "spanking" for being so uppity....he had finally scored in the game against the U.S. and they were hard-pressed for any other counter-move. All the rest was a manufactured "Wag The Dog" to dupe an unsuspecting public.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. 911. Think about it, and then think about who had the most to gain.

[billymc2]

40. "911. Think about it, and then think about who had the most to gain."

Who?

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Wow

I wonder if they'll do another attack again. Earlier this weekend someone made a post wondering.

[Disturbed]

33. Reasons for toppling Saddam

Bush Junta Iraq Successes

Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

A military foothold in the ME.

No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits, esp. Bush Junta fave ally Saudi Dicktatorshit.

A scared and compliant U.S. population.

The start of destroying social programs in Amerika and the destruction of the Middle Class.

Screw ups

Allowing Saddam's Army to melt away with weapons.

De-Baathification

Failed Peace keeping force.

Keeping Sunnis out of political process.

Failure to turn re-contruction over to Iragis.

[spindoctor]

34. At the time that report was written, Iraq was our ally

Compare to the massacres that our Turkish allies routinely perform on Kurdish settlements but you rarely read about.

It is possible that the settlement in question got caught in the chemical crossfire between Iraq and Iran, but it definitely can't be excluded that the Iraqi army held a little live experiment.

Bottom line is, it doesn't really matter. We didn't go to war to revenge the Kurds, we went to secure stock piles of WMD's. Remember? :eyes:

[Disturbed]

36. I remember this:

The buildup to the invasion consited of many reasons.

Saddam has WMDs.
Had plans to assasinate Bush 1.
Gassed the Kurds.
Attacked his neighbors.
Funded terrorists.
Has acquired yellow cake.
Killed and tortured his own people.

Anything else?

[spindoctor]

38. Yea, there was more...

Iraq was in violation of a UN resolution
Iraq had ties with Al Queda
The world is better of without Saddam Hussein

and I forgot the ones from March and April of 2004 ;)