Does Ralph Nader still think there is no difference between the parties?

[Democat]

Don't ever forget that without Nader's run in 2000, there would have been no presidency for George W. Bush.

Ralph Nader has done more damage to America than any other activist on the left that I can think of.

Sorry to bring up old wounds but I was thinking about the filibuster fight and wondering if Ralph finally realizes what he did to America.

[MnFats]

1. i think his brain has become too calcified for rational thought.

he took GOP money, f'chrissakes!

[LightningFlash]

2. I don't think Nader still believes that....

Look at how Conyers is fighting. There's even some republicans like Spector and Hagel, that are fighting back.

[benburch]

3. If so, it would be damned nice if he would apologise. nt

[salvorhardin]

4. ...and that's something I thought I'd never see

Spector and Hagel breaking party discipline.

[inthebrain]

5. What Ralph did to America?

Excuse mefor saying this BUT, if it wasnt for Ralph waling up the left and some sane conservtives, Kerry would have lost ala Goldwater this election!!!!

Ralph didnt blow that election for Gore. Gore blew that election for Gore. He ran a lousy campaign and agreed with Bush on almost every single fucking issue. For Christ sakes, GORE LOST 100,000 liberals votes to Bush in florida!!!!

Lets not forget the actions of Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush in that election as well. Gore and the Democrates did a lousy job of putting up a fight for those folks that were disenfranchised in that election.

The reality of the matter is that Gore lost an election that he won. Blaiming it on Nader takes the fault off the Republicans shoulders for stealing the election and Gores for not fighting hard enough to claim an election he won.

Seriously, blaming Nader is ridiculous!!!! The Democrats have been losing to the most extreme right wing candidates for years. THe only people they have to blame is themselves for the mess they are in now.

Bush is the crappiest candidate Ive seen come down the pike since Bob Dole. As a matter of fact he a whole lot worse!!!!!

[EFerrari]

17. That's right. George Bu$h

is no Bob Dole. :)

[Skittles]

19. there were many factors that allowed bush to steal the election

Nader was by far the most easiest gift to the GOP

[MsTryska]

24. ummm...Gore didn't lose the election

int he final analysis.


ie once all the votes were counted.


however nader did take a large segment of votes away from the Dems, leading to a pretty tight race.


But who's to say the elcetion wouldn't have gotten stolen with or without nader.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Don't forget

he also got money from the republicans. In Alex Jones' documentary "American Dictators" he talks about Nader and how Nader wrote some book and was sponsered by rightwing people and Nader was on faux bragging about it etc. He's just as much a rightwinger as any of them are. The republicans were also fighting to help get him on ballots this past election season. Why? So that he can take votes away from John Kerry. They also gave him tons of cash for his campaign. They don't give a damn about anything he says and he doesn't give a damn about anything they say.

[seg4527]

8. do you think kerry got any money from republicans?

look up what corporations give candidates. you'll be shocked.

[LightningFlash]

10. Honestly that was expected for me..

Lots of TRUE republicans believed in Kerry, I know many republicans who voted for him. Because of the mess and the stolen election, supression, all sorts of other things there's alot of negative vibes now about everything. It's the radicals who all hate him....

[seg4527]

14. so it's okay for kerry to accept republican money

even though he has millions of dollars already, a lot of which went unspent. but someone who has got nearly nothign can't take it?

i voted for kerry - the democrats kept nader off the ballot in PA. if not, i still probably would have voted for kerry, because PA was just so close in teh last days.

but i don't think democrats can be comparing nader to the right wingers, especially with some of the dirty tactics they used to keep people from even having the option of voting for him.

[LightningFlash]

22. I don't know.

I don't see it as an issue during campaign time. I don't see all the fuss over Nader, he was one of the first to speak out about the voting injustices. He's not really on anyone's side to be honest.

I do not think any of these contributions should fly all the time though and that NO lobbyists, or secret groups should be wining and dining senators and government with gifts and money and outrageous vacations. It is violating all of the rules and ethics in the House. that needs to stop once and for all. But it seems to go both ways during a campaign month in an election.

[noiretextatique]

30. yes, it is perfectly fine for democrats to take republican money

it is only an issue if nader does it because he is a threat (at less than 3%) to democrats. never mind the republican threat...that's irrelevant. nader is a bigger threat than bush, SCOTUS and all the rest of the theives.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Nader made the mistake of his life. He's the guy who killed Santa

Claus. He is smart enough to know it and to never ever admit it.

[ToeBot]

9. He may still believe that there isn't much difference...

I'm sure he would point out all the Dem's that voted for the Bankruptcy bill. Not allot of difference there.

[Skittles]

20. the fact that some "Dems" are corporate whores

doesn't negate the fact that ALL REPUBLICANS ARE

[leveymg]

11. And he was wrong about the Corvair!

It's much more fun driving sideways . . . OOPS! . . . !SDRAWKCAB.

:think: :bounce: ;-)

[emanymton]

12. Be Not Ralph Nader - See No Difference Between The Parties

see I.

Both major US political parties stand strong on NOT being the other.
Both major US political parties are owned and operated by and exclusively for money.


Blame not others for Democratic Party's failure to BE different. The campaigns of Gore and Kerry were more about NOT appearing to be than being.


FYI - there be more than just two political parties in US.

[Q]

13. What pisses me off more than Nader...

...is Democrats that use him as a scapegoat while never mentioning blatant election fraud or the illegal supreme court decision.

I haven't and would never vote for Nader...but it seems that some Democrats are rewriting history to make it appear as if Bush actually won the 2000 election and that Democrats only 'lost' because of Nader.

Shame on you.

[okieinpain]

15. yes, I would love to hear him rationalize this shit that we are going

through.

[Q]

16. Why not ask those that are actually to blame...

...to 'rationalize this shit that we're going through'?

PLEASE stop the revisionism and point your fingers in the right direction.

[okieinpain]

23. bullshit, he gave bush the match to light the fire. fuck nader, he

can't hide from this shit, and neither can the naive that voted for him.

[emanymton]

25. This May Surprise Some...

but just because one is an Anyone But Bush person, does not necessarily follow, that one will fall into lock step with the Democratic Party.

Blaming other for one's short coming is a GOP trait. It is too bad some at DU are scapegoating others for the Democratic Party's failure to stand FOR their beliefs.


Bush Lied, People Died, Media Cheered

[okieinpain]

33. nader=judas. see it's that simple.

[emanymton]

35. Being Liberal Is Never That Simple...

The GOP are taking USA in the wrong directions. We agree.

The directions the Democratic Party are going are not the only way to go. (Given how little the difference is between the GOP and the DEM, many people have other ideas on many important subjects.) Nader's positions in many areas are better for more people.


Bush Lied, People Died, Media Cheered

[Dogmudgeon]

18. All right now ...

... we've all discussed what Ralph did and didn't do, and every other permutation of What Went Wrong. The bottom line is that the 2000 election was stolen -- just like 2002, 2004, and probably 2006.

I was as incensed as anyone about Nader's behavior, but the time for that is past. This is a long-term and broad-issued fight and it goes far beyond Team Bush. As long as Ralph continues to take the fight to the greedheads, he's doing OK.

As for us ... what have WE been doing, collectively and individually? That's the question that we need to ask ourselves. If WE are active, Ralph will just have to fall in line.

--p!

[Conservativesux]

21. What a sad, sad man Nader is. He should have stepped off the stage..

..a long time ago, gracefully, but he just had to have the last laugh.

Problem is, no one thinks it's funny. We never did.

Now a once popular man amongst us will always be remembered as the old has-been nincompoop who helped get * installed in the White House.

[ulysses]

26. ah! is *this* the thread

that resurrected Nader as a topic? :D

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Could be? Wonder why it isn't in the election fraud forum?

[EastofEdon]

28. LOL!!

:sarcasm: election fraud? What election fraud?? :sarcasm:

[Just Me]

29. He's stubborn. But, I'm sure he's feeling some regret.

He was very close to being "irrelevant" this last election.

I am a big enough person to forgive Ralph Nader for being so passionate that even he is human enough to make a mistake. I guess it's 'cause I know of NO good human being who has a mistake-free life and I know there is no such phenomenon as a "perfect" human being.

I am also a smart enough person to AVOID targeting Ralph as the cause for all our ills. Targeting Ralph in such a way proves the persecutor to be narrow, shallow, simple and rigid. Only the rabid right acts that way. It's just,...silly,...to use him as a beating post; worse, actually, because the man is NOT inherently bad or dishonest or evil. He's done more to serve the interests of "the people" than any single individual that comes to my mind.

Please, stop this shit. This serves NO ONE'S interests and certainly does NOTHING to address present circumstances. STOP IT!!!

[journalist3072]

31. "No difference"

You know, out of all the things that make me angry about Nader, that bullshit line he spewed about there being no difference between Repugs and Democrats made me the most angry.

There IS a difference. Republicans and Democrats see the world in vastly different ways. And one party in particular (the Repugs) is concerned with absolute power. They don't want debate--they want it their way or the highway.

One reason the Democrats have lost so many elections is because they are fundamentally more decent people. They put country ahead of party.

[noiretextatique]

32. do you think bush realizes what he did to america?

or katherine harris? or SCOTUS? right...they don't have to be responsible.

[fujiyama]

34. Ralph Nader

got less than 1/2 of one percent this time...

And you still want to talk about him? He's irrelevant..