They're after your children.....again

[AnnInLa]

the following is from http://americablog.org

They're after your children
by John in DC - 5/17/2005 05:42:00 PM

From the radical right propaganda organ, AgapePress:

...A Pennsylvania school district that's being sued by a parent who was barred from reading the Bible in her son's kindergarten class is vowing to "vigorously defend" itself. In a letter sent home to parents, the superintendent of the Marple Newtown School District says it "upheld the law and did not discriminate against anyone or any religion." Donna Busch was invited to her son's elementary school in October as part of an activity in which the class learns more about a particular pupil, including having the pupil's parent read from a favorite book in class. She says her son was upset that she was not allowed to read from the Bible. Her federal lawsuit accuses the district of infringing on her right to express her religious beliefs and discriminating against Christianity.

Imagine if someone had come into class and read the Koran to her Christian 5 year old kid, unaccompanied by his radical right mommy.

http://americablog.org

[tjdee]

1. I think she should have been allowed to read it.

I think the entire assignment is stupid, actually, but since that was it, the parent was within the parameters of it.

I don't think she should sue, however. And if it was a fire and brimstone passage, she shouldn't have been able to read that.

Plus, I hope it was one of those children's bibles, because listening to some stinkin'....Isaiah or Ezekiel would be BORING for all the other five year olds.

[Ladyhawk]

2. I totally disagree.

If mommy can read the bible to the class, then anyone else's mommy should be free to read any religious book to the class, including the Koran, any Buddhist or Hindu texts and the Satanic Bible. Once you let one religion into a public setting, you have to let them all in. That's why religion should stay out of tax-financed, public settings and why government should stay out of churches.

This whole thing with teaching Christian creationism also violates the wall between church and state. If Christian creationism is taught, then every creation story from every religion should also be taught. We are a pluralistic society, not a Christian society.

Lately the line has been blurred far too much and it's time to regain a secular America.

[havocmom]

3. Bravo Ladyhawk!

:toast: Well put. Well put indeed!

There are lots of lovely creation stories out there. Open the gate to one and all must be admitted. The fundies need that point made over and over to them. Theirs' is not the only story out there and they need to get that through their collective heads.

[tjdee]

4. But the assignment was for "favorite book".

Obviously, the teacher didn't expect a five year old's favorite book to be a religious text (and it probably isn't)--so I don't think the school should be sued.

But since the assignment was "read passages from your favorite book" or whatever, if the kid's (supposed) favorite book is the bible, hey, no biggie. And if some other kid's mom had wanted to read from the Satanic bible, she should have been able to also. I think at that point you trust the mother to read age appropriate passages.

I agree with your point, but the school set themselves up by making it a personal assignment.

[Ladyhawk]

7. No, they didn't.

I have a gut feeling that the fundies did this on purpose so they could bring a suit. They want this suit to be a church/state separation test. They're trying to open the secular doors of the school to fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Back when I was a fundy, people used to scheme this way...how to get the word of God back into the schools...sheesh!

[tjdee]

9. I believe that.

I don't think for a minute that there is one (okay, maybe one) five year old who just adores the Bible so much more than any other book available to him. Unless that's the only book available. :scared:

I think you're right they did it on purpose, but I still maintain that the school shouldn't have said "favorite book" if they meant "favorite book except for religious texts". But you are right, the mom probably took it as an opportunity to spread the word to the children of kindergarten. I'd agree with you there.

[Ladyhawk]

10. Considering that the US Constitution already stipulates that there

should be separation between church and state, and because judicial law has upheld the idea of separation of religion from public schools, it didn't need to be said in this context. It's national law.

[tjdee]

12. Excellent point.

When you put it that way, I totally get it.

But then... how do you explain talking about the bible in...say...literature contexts? Would separation of church/state apply to any mention at all of the bible, or just, as someone implies in another post, teaching of the bible?

I guess I need to take a look at the actual laws. Seems you are right, though.

[SmokingJacket]

8. In this limited situation, I think reading the Koran or Satanic Bible

would be just fine -- as long as the teacher didn't do it, and it was in the context of "learning about a student."

I read from the Bible in my public high school class in the 80's -- it was great, actually: the Bible is referred to in a lot of great literature, and knowing about Job and Jonah and the Garden of Eden is useful in understanding literature. We also read a little of the Bhagavad Gita.

The problem comes when the teacher *teaches religion* (including creationism!) or sponsors prayer in a public school. The Bible itself is not a boogeyman.

I say this as a dyed-in-the-wool secular humanist, btw. I never entered a church in my life, until I started dating cute Catholic boys.

[seabeyond]

6. hwat passage would she have picked. some are pretty harsh

my kindergartener get some passage i dont wnat them to consume at that age i would be pissed. i am a christian. kids went to a christian school. i knew i gave up my right to control that. but not a public school. no. this woman knew what she was doing. and she was stopped. as she should have been

[HockeyMom]

5. OPPOSITE reaction

I am a one on one Special Ed TA. I posted this on a previous thread. A little 1st grade boy I was assigned to had exactly the opposite problem. The kids were required to read something every night at home. This little boy's Mom only let him read the Bible. Every day in class he had to say that he read the Bible at night. "I don't know why, but my Mom makes me read this silly Bible stuff every night", he would say in class. In free period the boy would grab anything and everything off the book shelf to read.

When the parents were supposed to come in read before the class, this boy's Mom wanted to come in and read the Bible. Joey BEGGED his Mom NOT to read the Bible. He said he didn't' want to be humiliated again in front of the whole class. This was a 6 year old we are talking about. With a lot of prodding from both Joey and the teacher, his Mom finally agreed to read something else in front of the class.

We have not only Christians in the school system, but Jews, Hindu, Muslims, etc. I never heard of any of these parents asking to read from their "holy books" in front of the class.

Why must these people EXPLOIT their children for their RELIGIOUS AGENDA? They aren't winning converts, they are only antagonizing others of the different faiths. Why can't they see that? We have a large Jewish community here where I live. I know for a fact they don't want their children hearing about "Jesus the Lord, says....". How do they think a Muslim or an atheist parent would feel?

There is a reason why our Forefathers wanted the separation of church and state. It has worked well for 200+ years. LEAVE IT A ALONE. We are not a CHRISTIAN NATION and a whole lot of PARENTS don't want it to be.

[progressivebydesign]

11. my stepdaughter had a similar situation..

.. in 6th grade, the kids kept choosing either the Bible or the Left Behind series for all of their book reports and oral reports. Also, every essay they did had some aspect of that in it... "Place I'd Most LIke to Go" (heaven), "Person I'd Most Like To Meet" (Jesus), etc. Glad to be out of that town.. but it's going on here in another public school in another State. School projects about Jesus and being born-again, Bible book reviews... Not since the 70's have I seen such pop-religion. HOpe it goes away... These kids are learning nothing.

[tjdee]

13. But then, isn't that their right?

I guess that gets down to what is in question in the original post.

As Ladyhawk points out above, there is a separation of church and state, and that is the law. So are these kids in effect breaking the law by doing the school assignment (book report) on a subject they wanted to read about? If the teacher is grading on the technical merit of the project, isn't that okay? Don't they have a right to report on Left Behind or Dude, Where's My Country or Huckleberry Finn?

:shrug:

I'd agree it's probably really annoying and that they're not learning too much (especially reading talent lacking tripe like Left Behind) and existing in a ridiculous echo chamber...