Sweet Jesus, how much more can we overlook?

[democrank]

Please forgive me, but I can`t hold it in another minute. Not another second can I float around this site like everthing is just peachy keen. The world has gone stark, raving mad, thanks in large part to Bush making humans out of corporations and corpses out of humans.

Goodness no. Don`t say anything about the war. We must support the troops. Iraqis can wade in blood up to their kneecaps, but we must support the troops. UnAmerican to do otherwise. I`ll tell you what...the day I have to prove my patriotism by nodding over what we`re doing in Iraq and elsewhere, is the day I might as well pack it in. Perhaps I need sensitivity training. I`ve never been in the military, but I do know this: If my superior told me to strap a guy to a board and hold him under water until he was nearly dead,I`d have to refuse. If my superior told me to level a city with banned weapons, I`d have to refuse. If I was told to unleash a trained attack dog on a restrained prisoner`s genitals, I would not do it. I wouldn`t put slash marks on my helmet for each person I killed. What in hell are we doing? If I sound harsh, it`s because I mean to. How much longer are we going to allow these atrocities to continue?

I`m not proud to be an American anymore. We grab whatever we want in the international arena because nobody can stop us. Well, isn`t that special? We bribe, torture, conquer, bully and then stand back and pat ourselves on the back because we`re number one. Big damn deals, we are.

The people in this administration...and their enablers...need to be stopped. Whatever it takes, they need to be stopped. If it means we have to give up the next six months of our lives and start marching in the streets, so be it. We`re going to pay for this and pay dearly.
Forget the freedom crap. Bush knows nothing about freedom. All he knows is that a majority of Americans applaud and cheer each and every time he acts out on one of his sociopathic tendencies. They would rather worry about two men living together than worry about the seeds of hatred we`re sowing all over the globe. Great. Let`s work together to stop stem cell research and just let these war crimes kind of fade into the distance. If someone does raise a stink, we can just buy them off or kill them.

What`s our answer? Just let them do it?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[kaygore]

2. Well said

But you have to remember that one reason the "opposition" party tip toes around important issues and positions is that many of them have been bought by the same interests that have bought the Republicans (only, I suspect, our guys sell their souls for less).

Remember, until Reid, Boxer, Conyers, and a few others stood up, we really didn't have a Democratic Party which, unfortunately, means there was no opposition.

Kerry seemed to spend most of his time trying to lose the election which, ironically, he won but he wasn't willing to fight for (isn't it interesting that the Democrats conceded, claiming that they don't want to tear the country apart, but the Republicans fight to the death, a la Washington State).

In an editorial in today's Oregonian, the writer takes Reid to task for calling Bush a loser and for not trying to work with the Republicans (as if 2000-2004 didn't prove that there is no way to work with them short of killing them). I find it hard to believe that when all the Republicans were name calling Clinton that this same writer took them to task. Yet, we tend to cower and make apologies for telling the truth when it pinches the other party. I don't ever see Republicans apologizing (may be we are the party of girlie men, as Arnold says).

Trying to make this country a decent place for people to live and work is hard work. What the Republicans have discovered is that most people (of all political persuasions) are too wrapped up in their own little worlds to see or even to care about the larger picture. Even some of my fiends who are horrified about what's going on tell me to stop sending them information because it is too much to think about.

The Republicans are geniuses at making our brains tired. It gets to the point that you feel you can't we get upset about much more; you wonder how much more can we fight?

Those who do care are very remiss and deserve a special place in hell if they are not active in Move On. I don't care what the excuse is. The best organization that I observed was from ACT (America Coming Together) and Move On. Move On is still very active. They are NOT going to wait until a few months before the next election to put their network in place. We are need to active members of that or some other network, such as the local Democratic Party. Arnold's election in California got the complacent grassroots activated there. Even San Diego's Democratic Party is very active.

Everyone of us should be heading a neighborhood group for Move On. We are not powerless; we have avenues that we can leverage to bring about change. But how many of us would rather grump and grumble rather than getting off our butts and getting active? Mailing a check. Voting every few years, and making comments at cocktail parties is NOT enough. We have to pledge our time and our bodies to make change a reality.

[Bluebear]

11. kick

[Jade Fox]

3. You are brave to bring up the whole "support our troops" mantra....

I don't blame those kids for doing what they have no choice under the
circumstances to be doing--the military deliberately drills free will out
of their recruits.

But you are right in pointing out that objecting to the war and the way
it is being conducted has been deliberately confused with not supporting
those young people we have charged with doing this government's
dirty work.

I don't know what the answer is. We are all fighting, and I do believe
it has an effect. But we are up against some amazing bastards.

[BillyDoc]

4. Like you, I am DISGUSTED with my fellow Americans.

I'm a vet who fought for my country in the early part of VietNam, then went to college and fought against that despicable war. After college I joined the Peace Corps and had the absolute priviledge of living for almost three years in a truly civilized country: Botswana.

Proud to be an American? NO FUCKING WAY!

Pissed off, disgusted, and scared describes it better. But I have determined that I will fight this scourge that is upon us with everything I can. And I am. Slowly, methodically, I am FIGHTING.

And I could sure use some company. Check out this post from this morning: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3659846

[stillcool]

5. Paper chase....

i've found to be an excellent way to relieve some of those symptoms. i pick what i find most egregious going on in the world today, and copy & paste myself a little newsletter. Throw them in the car and go paper-bombing in my travels. i find it rather fun, and feel much better after.

[manic expression]

6. Exactly right!!!

I cannot agree with you more.

[Bluebear]

7. "What`s our answer? Just let them do it?"

Evidently.

Nothing gets Americans excited anymore because Trista is about to choose her Bachelorette and NASCAR is on.

Meanwhile we have given carte blanche to Bush and his enablers. Oops, that was a FRENCH phrase and they're out, too.

When are we going to get mad enough?

I love your post.

[buff2]

8. It's weird that I ran onto your thread today.....

For the past two days I have been discussing the same things with people I know. Just this morning I said AGAIN that I could not support the troops because of what they are doing. The killings of innocent men,women and children and the blatant torture of prisoners makes me disrespect those that are doing it....all in the name of bu$h and so called "democracy and freedom". Boy,if that isn't a bunch of bullshit,I don't know what is.

Iraq is far worse off now than it has ever been. The violence and destruction going on is unbelievable. But what really sends me through the roof is when they show these family members on TV talking about their dead sons or daughters,they act like it's ok for them to have died after being LIED TO by bu$h and his gang of thugs and go on to talk about how "brave" they were and that they died trying to spread democracy and freedom to Iraq. Iraq....a country that wasn't doing a damn thing to us....now it's people are suffering great horrors because of us. It is so frustrating to know that thousands of these idiot bu$hites here in the good ole US of A still do not know that we were attacked on 9-11 by 19 people from SAUDI ARABIA,not Iraq.The bu$hites are a very stupid,stupid STUPID breed of people.

Excluding democrats and DUers from the souther en states,the biggest reason there is so much support for bu$h and his minions is because they are a racist,bigoted,homophobic mostly white rich bunch of people who use God and religion to reel the rest of these idiot supporters in. If republicans would start talking about gay rights,civil rights,help for the poor,health care for the poor and keeping Jesus out of the elections,those poor ignorant bastards would be jumping ship by the thousands. The "RED" states are filled with people who HATE BLACKS,MEXICANS,GAYS AND LESBIANS.They are working their asses off to make America all WHITE and all CHRISTIANS. Anyone other than that can go to hell as far as they are concerned.

It's going to take an uprising for us to get our country back to at least a little like it was before the bu$h takeover. I think too much damage has already been done to our good name. The bu$hites have ruined it forever.

[skoppa]

19. Yeah, but most of the soldiers doing it don't have a choice.

Chain of command is very important in the military, it's not just something that can be gone against. It can mean life or death. Not to mention the fact that the punishment for going against commands are very severe.

[texanwitch]

9. Your not alone, I fell the same way.

I served 4 years in the army, and I am sick of what is going on in Iraq in our name.

I would never have tortured anyone, I don't care who gave the order.

This support the troops no matter what they do, is not patriotism, it just being to scared to say what you really think.

I was once proud of my military service but I am not any longer, I don't tell anyone that I am a veteran. I want to be proud again but I just don't think it is possible.

What we are doing is saying to the troops, do whatever you want as long as you are in uniform and it is OK, this is gettting serious.

What if the troops are ordered to do it here in the US, on us?

We don't know what is coming in the future, but ask yourself this would you still support the troops if they tortured you, your family or friend?

When I was in the Army I spent two years in Germany, and I traveled as much as I could, and I was always treated with respect thanks to what our military did in WWII. Do we still have that same respect now? We have to hold our military responsible for their behavior or we may be next in line to be tortured.

I know I will get some negative responses to this entry, but I just want everyone to search your conscience.

Does being a superpower mean you can do anything, to anybody.

I am sick of heart over what is being done in Iraq by our military, it is not right, it is no different then what the Nazi's did in WWII.
It was wrong then and it wrong now.

I always hear, they are just kids, that means nothing.

In WWII we had a lot of kids fighting, and when you enter the military you are now longer a kid, you are now an adult.

[Karenina]

10. TODAY

Your loved ones, who volunteered to serve their country for whatever personal reasons, are BRUTALIZING IRAQIS AND GETTING THEMSELVES SHOT UP.

FOR WHAT??? :shrug:

[Yellow_Dog]

14. Who composes todays military?

With the draft the military was composed of all types, basically they had to be physically able to serve. There were the exceptions, the sons of the rich, the sons of the politically connected.

Today the military is composed of, the patriotic that believe it is their duty to country. Those that see it as (prior to war) as a way to pay for an education they otherwise could not afford.

Then there are the rest, Army vs. jail, basically unemployable, and probably a whole catalog of mental issues.

The military of today where in theory everyone there wants to be there is certainly is OK with those that don't want to serve. But how does this mix of people represent our country. It is not who we are as a country, it is a small percentage of our citizens, all who have a different agenda than most of us.

[Karenina]

15. What you have now

is way-too-many racist, redneck kids, brainwashed to regard those whose country they've invaded as "vermin," running amok in the streets of a foreign land creating chaos and getting killed or maimed.

And as an added benefit, their behaviour (at the behest of their corrupt "*commanders") is SERIOUSLY PISSING OFF the ENTIRE GLOBE. Quite special, I'd say.

[BillyDoc]

16. In a nutshell, Karenina

Especially the part about "SERIOUSLY PISSING OFF THE ENTIRE GLOBE."

[texanwitch]

12. This song say it all.

UNIVERSAL SOLDIER
By Buffy Sainte-Marie

He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an athiest, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls

But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.

Back to the top of this page

[kohodog]

13. The answer may be the draft

And I say this with two eligable sons and a daughter who would be in a few years. As long as Americans can go to war without personal sacrifice by a "volunteer" army and paid mercenaries aka "contractors," the majority will go along with whatever the warmongers want. If their kids suddenly are being conscripted I think the outlook would change.

We are living in troubled times.

[lse7581011]

17. And I Fear

they are going to get much worse before they get better!

[skoppa]

18. I agree with most of what you're saying...

...but not about supporting our troops. By no means do I support what Bush is doing in Iraq, but we have to support our troops. How can we not? They don't choose to go to Iraq and fight Bush's war. I know a lot of people in Iraq right now and I think to even entertain the thought of not supporting them is complete BULL SHIT!!! :grr: