Condi on CNN: "Democracy is a foreign concept to Muslims"

[maveric]

To all of them?

[ck4829]

1. Not to this one.

[hector459]

35. "Democracy" is becoming a foreign concept to Americans. n/t

eom

[ananda]

2. does kindasleezzy need..

.. sensitivity training

.. or what?


Sue

[ewagner]

3. Didn't DUer predict

that this unqualified political hack would put her foot in her mouth rather quickly?

Watch her backpeddle and try to clarify this statement...should be fun (except, of course, for the damage the statement has already done):popcorn:

[jobycom]

9. Knowing this evil gang, they may just run with it.

It gives them a good excuse for failure in Iraq. "We tried, we just underestimated their love of freedom and their ability to understand democracy." Might even allow Bush one of his fondest dreams. "That's why we decided to nuke them. They are just evil people, and should all die. Kill their leaders, convert or nuke them all."

I don't know if this was a misstatement or the introduction of a new Bush talking point.

[BrklynLiberal]

16. Here is how Thomas Friedman justified it.

He tried to spin it so that our victims did it to themselves...

The Nobility of Slaughter
Tom Friedman, the Imperial Chronicler

By MIKE WHITNEY

<snip>
In his most recent column Friedman explores another of his favorite themes, "Why have the winds of democracy blown everywhere else" except in the Arab world?

He responds by citing a UN report that focuses on "the acute deficit of freedom and good governance in the Arab world," and "the state's firm and absolute grip on power." Friedman avers that "the report is scathing about what Arabs have done to themselves and how they must change...That's why part of every Arab hates the US invasion of Iraq--and why another part is praying that it succeeds."

The quote is vintage Friedman and shows why he gets the plaudits from his friends in high-places. In just a few terse comments, he manages to turn the tables and convince his reader that the victims of American aggression can only blame themselves. It's a familiar refrain for Friedman who likes to characterize the disastrous effects of American war-mongering as a struggle with modernity within the Arab world.

He fails to acknowledge the daily bombings, arrests, and raids that are the up shot of the American occupation. He, similarly, forgoes any mention of the lack of power and services, the skyrocketing unemployment, the steadily increasing malnutrition, the poisoning of groundwater, the outbreaks of cholera and diarrhea, the continuing reports of torture and abuse, and the exponential growth of birth deformities and cancer rates among children. These, somehow, don't fit into the tale of backward Arabs being ushered into the 21st century by their friends in Washington. Friedman's paternalistic views would fit nicely next to the other apologies for western colonialism like "white man's burden" or "manifest destiny"; flimsy ideologies papering-over the empire's excesses.

The primary task of the imperial chronicler is to create an acceptable narrative for the savagery of the state. Friedman has shown that his talent at spinning that yarn far exceeds his competitors. Don't expect to see an account of torture-chambers and death-squads in Tom's scribbling; it's nowhere to be found. Instead, Friedman postulates a fairytale world where American foreign policy is always governed by principle and genuine humanitarian concern. His role as establishment-scribe is to perpetuate the illusion that the American Goliath may stumble, but the policy is always driven by good intentions.

<snip>


http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney05132005.html

[jobycom]

24. Thanks. Good summary. One thing it leaves off

Is the role we have played in preventing democracies in the Middle East. We overthrew the democracy in Iran, and have since fought just about every attempt at a democracy that emerged. We have manipulated governments in the Middle East with one goal--controlling their oil. We prop up dictators who are friendly to us because we know if their nations became democracies their citizens, and not us, would control their oil, and we would be more at their mercy. We might even have to pay a fair price to the people of their land for stealing their resources.

It has never been Islam that has been against democracy in the Middle East. It has been America.

[BrklynLiberal]

29. So true. We were never supportive of Democracy in the Middle East.

[DrDebug]

18. She never clarifies anything

"We don't want to smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Who said that??

[barbaraann]

4. Whoa!

That destroy Bush's argument for the War in Iraq!

I think she just revealed that she's been taking orders from Ariel Sharon.

[meg]

5. Reasonable since

democracy is a foreign concept to Christians, too - looking at the Talibans of both faiths.

[jobycom]

19. It's just not even close to defensible

First of all, Islam is no more fundamentalist nor homogenous than Christianity. There are many forms of beliefs, many different levels of commitment to those beliefs. There are just as many "Sunday Morning Muslims" as "Sunday Morning Christians." This whole media attempt to pretend that somehow Islam is just a violent religion of a bunch of dirty brown half-wits is pure racist propoganda of the type that allowed Hitler to do what he did.

Second, Islam started as a popular revolt against oppressive leaders, in many ways. Muhammad not only brought the message of God to the citizens of Mecca and Medina, he overthrew the corrupt and ineffective government of Mecca, and was VOTED IN as the leader of Medina. Let me repeat that--he was VOTED IN as the leader of Medina. Now, it wasn't a popular election, he was chosen by the leades of the different factions of Medina to settle their disputes, but that's not very different from how George Washington was elected our first president, and it is certainly more "democratic" than how George W. Bush was chosen president his first term--and some would say his second.

Third, Islam argues that all Muslims are equal, that once a person becomes a Muslim he is immediately equal to all other Muslims everywhere, and that even in positions of leadership all Muslims have an equal right to serve. That egalitarianism is a good basis for democracy.

Islamic nations have comprised many forms of government, from theocracies to democracies. There is no reason to blame the religion for anything.

Condi could argue reasonably that the cultural, economic and political situations of Iraq make a Democracy unworkable in the nation as it stands now--something some of us argued BEFORE the invasion. There are too many factions who don't get along. Any democracy that doesn't account for these factions is going to fail. But that's not a "Muslim" issue.

Bush's "moral clarity" is finally being revealed for what it is--simple-minded ignorance and wishful thinking. Or, more probably, cynical rhetoric to manipulate the masses.

[CJCRANE]

30. You make some good points.

I lived in a small predominantly muslim country which has a secular democracy back in the 90's. The people very much understood the concept of democracy and were determined to make thier votes count (just like most DUers!)

[ewagner]

34. Bravo!

I absolutely love this statement.

Bush's "moral clarity" is finally being revealed for what it is--simple-minded ignorance and wishful thinking. Or, more probably, cynical rhetoric to manipulate the masses.

Well said.

[Clark2008]

38. I was just going to post something similar to your points, here.

Bravo!

Only people in this backwards administration and the ill-informed nitwits who support them believe that Muslims don't understand democracy. Of course, they do and for the reasons you've stated; however, their democracy probably won't resemble ours in that they take the time to inform themselves on real issues before they vote and aren't so interested in their pop stars' personal lives.

[Triana]

6. It's quickly becoming a foreign concept to Americans too

Thanks to the Weaselly beady-eyed wonder that is George Bu$h

[leftofthedial]

7. it's definitely a foreign concept to the bushgang

[jobycom]

8. American and British Muslims might be a little taken aback by such comment

As well as the millions of Muslims in democracies across the world. Turkey is predominately Muslim.

Has Condi been reading Bernard Lewis, to make such assinine statements? Or is she listening too much to her husb... president, who has no clue what Muslims believe, or what a democracy is in the first place?

God, the fascist racism of these bastards is staggering. I've met high school drop-out rednecks from Podunk, Neckville, who have more of a grasp of the world than these evil jackasses--no offense to jackasses.

[Bridget Burke]

10. What about those elections in Iraq?

Weren't they supposed to be "proof" that we were doing the right thing?

[Benbow]

11. International diplomacy is a foreign concept to Condoleeza

She is making herself and her office the laughing stock of the world.

[lapfog_1]

12. Flush another Koran down the toilet...

[H2O Man]

13. In that case

they'd have a lot in common with the president and his administration.

[Solly Mack]

14. What a crock of shit

Why is she assuming Muslims are stupid?

[maveric]

21. Only Saudis arent stupid.

Her husband, I mean bu$h, told her so.

[Solly Mack]

28. Guess Condi forgot what Bush said then

"There's a lot of people in the world who don't believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe that people whose skins aren't necessarily -- are a different color than white can self-govern."

Rose Garden speech by Shrub, while standing w/ Canadian Prime Minister

This pack of liars needs to hire someone to keep their lies straight.

[CJCRANE]

32. It's the "they" fallacy again -

there is no attempt at analysis, nuance or differentiation between a community of one billion people. It's much easier just to say "they" are all the same.

[Flammable Materials]

15. They used to say that democracy was foreign to "Negros".

And that was the reason they weren't permitted to vote.

How quickly we forget.

THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF CIVILIZATION.

[Ms. Clio]

17. What a perfect analogy

Africa was the mother to us all.

[jobycom]

20. Thank you. Exactly. The eternal cry of conservatives

"The other side is just too stupid to understand what we are about, and too ungrateful to appreciate our attempts to "teach" them."

Justified our slaughter of Native Americans, slavery, segregation, and the laws against women owning propert, and will keep on going as long as there are conservatives in the world.

[VoiceOfFreedom]

22. Maybe

Maybe democracy is so foreign to muslims because the American-supported sunni regimes in the region are dictatorships. Even Israel is basically a dictatorship. Iran has democracy, Yemen has democracy, Turkey has democracy. Oh wait, we don't have "good relations" with those powers so they don't count. Condoleeza Rice should just shut her mouth before she makes her race even more stereotyped than it already is.

[Flying Dream Blues]

23. SO Condi-scending

Another gem "this war came to us, not the other way around."

[maveric]

27. For someone whos supposed to be intellegent, She aint too bright!

She and W should really not speak at all.

[MisterP]

25. remember how Chimpy said that anyone saying that democracy after invasion

was impossible was saying that "brown-skinned people" couldn't have democracy?

[madrchsod]

26. what about Indonesia?????

guess the tanker queen forgot about the largest moderate Muslim nation that has democratic elections. if i remember Iran had elections also but like the USA, Iran is run by a small group of religious thugs.

[all.of.me]

31. there she goes projecting again........

[LynnTheDem]

33. US democracy rating 2000; #4 US democracy rating, 2005; #13

So...MUSLIMS are running the USA?

[Terran1212]

36. Someone seriously kill these fanatics (in the white house)

They know they are lying through their teeth. They know every dictatorship in the Middle East was set up by the West. They know their policies are directly antithetical to democracy. They know what they are doing.

And they keep lying, people keep gobbling it up. Inferior muslims, the white house must be right!

[applegrove]

37. She means it is a foreign concept to the elites. Democracy always

is a foreign concept to the oligarchy. Tell the Saudis to 'read up on it'. Or can't they read too?