Respond to bible quote: What would you say about this?

[Maine-ah]

Liberal are vile!

Isaiah 32 Read This Chapter
Isaiah 32:1-8
1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment. 2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. 3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken. 4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly. 5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. 6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. 7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. 8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.


Let me explain something first: I found this on FR while lurking around. I minor knowlege of the Bible, and in all honesty, I'm not even sure what this means.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1403448/posts

[DrDebug]

1. Liberal means the generous, openhearted, princely man

Verse 5. The vile person shall no more be called liberal] The different epithets here employed require minute explanation.

The vile person-lbn nabal, the pampered, fattened, brainless fellow, who eats to live, and lives to eat; who will scarcely part with any thing, and that which he does give he gives with an evil eye and a grudging heart.

Liberal-bydn nadib; the generous, openhearted, princely man, who writes on all his possessions, For myself and mankind, and lives only to get and to do good.

The churl-ylyk kilai, the avaricious man; he who starves himself amidst his plenty, and will not take the necessaries of life for fear of lessening his stock.

Thus he differs from lbn nabal, who feeds himself to the full, and regards no one else; like the rich man in the Gospel. The avaricious man is called ylyk kilai, from yk ki, for, yl li, myself; or contracted from lk col, all, and yl li, to myself: all is mine; all I have is my own; and all I can get is for myself: and yet this man enjoys nothing; he withholds From back and belly too their proper fare:- O cursed lust of gold, when for thy sake The wretch throws up his interest in both worlds, First starved in this, then damned in that to come! Bountiful-
http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkeisa32.htm

So it means that the vile one - the person who only cares about himself - can no longer be able to pretend that he is a generous person

[Maine-ah]

2. I'm kicking this

I really want to know if this is in the Bible, first of all. Then, I need someone with Bible knowlege to explain it to me, and to let me know if this is being taken out of context by the idots at FR.

[cornermouse]

3. The vile churl sounds like Bush...

If someone's using this to say that liberals are vile, they aren't reading it carefully enough. In modern speak, it says the vile person shall not be called liberal. Therefore, it follows that the liberal shall not speak villany or work iniquity, or practice hypocrisy, or refuse food to the hungry, or withhold liquid from the thirsty.

The Living Bible version translates vile to atheist, but other than that, it fits the neo-con republicans perfectly. Maybe George Bush should read it...

[Skidmore]

4. The misinterpretation speaks volumes to the dumbing down

of education these RW people embrace.

[pnorman]

5. Not being a card-carrying Christian, I had to Google it out.

Appropriately enough, I found it at a skeptic's site: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/32.html Considering it's freeper provenance, at first I thought it might have been a fabrication -- like that notorious "Koran 9-11" one. But it appears to be correct. But those "morans" didn't have the wit to realize that the word "liberal" was NOT used pejoratively.

Here's an excrerpt from that page: "The liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." -- A Bible verse for Howard Dean and the US Democratic Party!"

pnorman
On edit: Here's another gem that site singled out: "Tremble, ye women that are at ease .. strip you, and make you bare ... They shall lament for the teats." Topless yet! (I guess that 'teats' is the KJV word for 'tits').

[Toots]

6. Freepers are quite stupid

This is saying the exact opposite of what they think it says. It says

For the vile person (aka GOP) will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. 7 The instruments also of the churl (aka GOP) are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. 8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

also verse 4 is quite plain
The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.

[Maine-ah]

7. Thanks everyone!

One question...

What was liberal considered to be when this was written? The same meaning it has today or something different?

[DrDebug]

10. liberal is just a translation

The original word was nadib. The problem with the bible is that there is often not a direct translation for the word, so it's a guestimate.

The person below wrote "nobel" which is probably a clearer translation for the present time.

In this case liberal is confusing since the second definition is meant ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberal )

2a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.

[alcuno]

11. I just looked this up in my bible. The word "liberal" isn't there.

Chapter 32, Verses 6 and 7

"For the fool speaks foolishly, planning evil in his heart: How to do wickedness, to speak perversely against the Lord, To let the hungry go empty and the thirsty be without drink.

And the trickster uses wicked trickery, planning crimes: How to ruin the poor with lies, and the needy when they plead their case."


Let's see, who can I think of who is like that???????????????

[cornermouse]

16. Living version; verses 6 and 7

Everyone will recognize an evil man when he sees him, and hypocrites will fool no one at all. Their lies about God and their cheating of the hungry will be plain for all to see.

The smooth tricks of evil men will be exposed, as will all the lies they use to oppress the poor in the courts.

Who indeed???????

[Toots]

31. You did not quote verse 8

That is the verse with the word Noble or Liberal not verse 6 or 7.

[alcuno]

40. I'd already done 8 below.

[Toots]

41. Sorry I did not tie the two posts together. Which version do you read

Is your version The King James version or Gideon's or ?

[alcuno]

8. That's not what my Catholic bible says...

For example, Chapter 32, verse 8 says...

"But the noble man plans noble things, and by noble things he stands."

The word "liberal" is nowhere in Chapter 32.

[Maine-ah]

9. interesting

this poster has this down as the King James version. What is yours? I'm sorry I am so ignorant on this particular topic.

[alcuno]

13. I have an official Catholic bible.....

The New American Bible

[Toots]

12. Noble and Liberal are interchangable

That is how I take it anyway. Freepers love putting their stupidity on display..Any person with a fifth grade education would have read that verse correctly but not the Freepers.....

[alcuno]

14. Too funny.

You are right.

[orpupilofnature57]

25. Kick !!They seek the bliss of ignorance, not harmony.

[indy_azcat]

15. I like the Contemporary English Version best

I think DrDebug nailed the best answer on this - it's all about the translation.

The New International Version (NIV) uses Noble.

CEV says:
Isaiah 32.8
But helpful people can always be trusted to make helpful plans.

I'd say liberals are generally more helpful than conservatives, eh?

:hi:

[Maine-ah]

19. Ok, folks,

If you want some entertainment now, I'm going to respond to these idiots, I'll have the same poster name as here (Maine-ah). I feel like being a pain in someones ass thismorning. :evilgrin:

(on edit) I hope you don't mind, I'm going to use some info from the helpful folks at DU.

[DrDebug]

21. I prefer you don't

Starting flame wars have a nasty habit of biting you back in the ass. I don't want freepers here. Quite honestly, I have never gone to FreeRepublic and no intention of ever going there.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

17. How about this verse?

"Thou wasteth thy time reading gibberish written by fools."

[indy_azcat]

18. Yeah, stay off them fool's Freeper site

And I'll assume this isn't going to get into a flamewar over religion or the Bible itself.

:hide:

[Maine-ah]

27. you know what assume does...

Listen, this post was not meant to start a flamewar over religion. It was meant to help an ignorant person. (me)

[cornermouse]

20. Ahem.

What philosophy books do you read?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

22. The Gibberish I refer to is the crap at freeperville...

not the text of the Bible.

[Maine-ah]

23. Yep, it is gibberish, but sometimes they really piss me off.

And I just can't help but to do the same to them.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

29. A Piss For A Piss

Sounds very Old Testament. :)

[Maine-ah]

30. LOL

[cornermouse]

26. Okay.

I never go to Freeperville.

[Maine-ah]

28. Know thy enemy.

I have a strange need to know what they're doing. I'll even watch Fox News, just to see what they're up to. Yeah, it gets my panties in a bunch most of the time, but I just need to know.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

32. Exactly!

That is my point! :)

[cornermouse]

24. Maybe we should send these verses to those congressional

representatives (who claim to be christians as they cut the ground out from under the children, elderly, poor, and disabled)...

[DemBones DemBones]

33. I fear some of them will need the verses explained to them

as much as the poor freepers do.

[expatriate]

34. What would I say about this?

I would say that it is yet another quote from the Bible - a book that has been written, rewritten, expurgated, translated, retranslated, edited, manipulated by various church groups to suit their own agendas, altered, dumbed down, mystified, and screwed with to the point that no version in print at present can be considered "accurate". It is largely a compendium of folklore, passed on through oral tradition for centuries before much of it was ever written down - particularly the Old Testament. The New Testament gospels are largely based on the mythology surrounding the god Mithra, and were written after some of the Epistles were written, very possibly to put a warm and fuzzy face on a rather ascetic philosophy ("be good, deny yourself comfort and pleasure, and maybe you'll be rewarded after you die").

I would say that it is probably impossible to suss out just what the original meaning behind this translation might be.

I would also say that it's pointless to argue with anyone who would take something that has been transcribed, edited, expurgated, translated, re-translated, manipulated by various church groups to fit their particular agendas, etc., literally. You won't change their minds.

Like teaching a fish to sing. It doesn't work, and you frustrate yourself and annoy the fish.

[Maine-ah]

35. LOL

I like your analogy.(sp?) Teaching a fish to sing would probably be easier than getting the RW to listen or understand. I must be a glutton for punishment, as I still try anyway. Maybe I'll be rewarded when I die....

[DoNotRefill]

36. If it was in person....

I'd whip out my Patented "Male Urinary Delivery Device"(tm) and merrily spray away at the "Good Book". Then, I'd undoubtedly be arrested and tried for desecrating a Bible and beheaded, with the support of a fair number of DUers.

After all, it's a sacred religious text, and the First Amendment doesn't apply to desecrating it, right?

[Toots]

37. Patented?? I want mine patented

:+

[DoNotRefill]

39. Too late....

I beat you to the Patent Office!


:rofl:

[sonicx]

38. Freeper Edition Bible

"Thou Shall Not Kill...Except Liberals."

[silverlib]

42. Suggestion

You might try this in the Religion/Theology forum. It does not move nearly as fast. You've gotten some great replies here and I think you could get some more over there, as your post will "stay at the top" longer.

One of my best friends (an ordained Methodist minister- working in social services - Perkins School of Divinity) has just finished a couple of books by Spong. He is impressed with Spong's interpretation of the Bible, not necessarily agreeing with him 100%, but thinking that generally he is right on target about this angry God the RW's have adopted to push their social agenda. I printed the Free Republic posts, as I think he will be "amusingly disgusted."

Thanks for posting this.

[warrior1]

43. Well I like to fuck with their beliefs. Here you go.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

SHOULD WE ADMIRE JESUS?

by Jim Walker

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm

The Dark Bible

[erichzann]

44. Says the vile person shall no more be called generous, abundant, ample

That's the definition of liberal -- and its saying that the vile person cannot be called those things, not the vile person is those things.

[Toots]

45. This is actually a very wonderful Biblical verse you found

It sort of gives a different view of Liberal. God's view..This should be mandatory reading at every fundamentalist church. How would Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell respond to these verses? We should press them on this.